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Thread: Does gas really go bad?

  1. #41
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Does gas really go bad?

    I known generators say that and some even give you a sample of Sta-Bil with the purchase of the generator. But I want to know what automobile owner's manuals say. I believe they are much more careful and would not recommend a product on hearsay."

    Why do you suppose a major engine manufacturer like Briggs & Stratton or Honda would recommend stabilizer on "hearsay"? It makes no sense. Honda makes both car and generator engines. What is the difference, functionally, between a Honda generator engine and a Honda car engine?

    As far as car manufacturers being more "careful" - read what they say about long term storage. It's the very same thing. You may not find fuel stabilzer referenced in most owner's manuals (I can't say, either way - I don't have any means of "checking" without going to a great deal of trouble) but that's because cars tend to be used regularly. Who buys a new car and then does not use it? But the logic is the same - and how you can reason otherwise I just don't get.

    I think you're just being argumentative!!


  2. #42
    DonTom
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    Re: Does gas really go bad?

    How come you refuse to answer with your opinion about PRI-G, which claims to fix old gasoline to refinery spec? Do you believe it or not?

    -Don-



  3. #43
    mrblanche
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    Re: Does gas really go bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom
    How come you refuse to answer with your opinion about PRI-G, which claims to fix old gasoline to refinery spec? Do you believe it or not?

    -Don-


    Uh...I choose, "not." Unless it has some extremely potent solvents in it.

    But, hey, I'm a skeptic, anyway.

  4. #44
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    Re: Does gas really go bad?

    [quote=Eric ]
    Argh!

    I have been trying to answer, apparently without much success...

    Fuel stabilizer is useful if the vehicle (or gas container, etc.) is going to be "sitting there" for up to about a year or so. It will maintain volatility and reduce problems associated with oxidation, as explained in the articles I posted. If, on the other hand, anticipated storage is going to be considerably longer, then the tank should be drained. Yes, gaskets may dry out and so on. But that is preferable to the many serious and expensive problems that can result from jelled-up/fouled fuel sitting in a tank (and in fuel lines/filters/carbs/injectors) for several years.

    Read up on long term storage; what the experts say. It's not just my opinion....




    [/quote

    To cut in, is it okay to use sta-bil on power lawn mowers andac generators which is occasionally run?

  5. #45
    DonTom
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    Re: Does gas really go bad?


    "Uh...I choose, "not." Unless it has some extremely potent solvents in it."

    But what's your opinion on Sta-Bil? Does it do anything or not? IMO, right on the bottle it says it does nothing, since I have used gasoline more than a year old countless times without the slightest problem.

    Just today, I started up my two stoke weed eater. It was out of gasoline, but I used the already mixed gasoline (mixed two years ago) in a gas can in the garage. Of course, it started right up and no problem and ran it a full tank to cut weeds here. I have heard that already mixed two stoke gas is supposed to not last as long as unmixed gasoline. But it was still fine.

    I guess Eric simply has never tried gasoline more than a year old without any stabilizer so is convinced that Sta-Bil is necessary. But I noticed he would not answer if he believes the claims from the other gasoline stabilizers that say they "repair" old gasoline to refinery specification.

    Eric thinks I am argumentative, but the truth is simply that I am not yet convinced Sta-Bil does anything or is ever necessary. I assume it does do what it says, however, as far as keeping gasoline good for a year. But it's good for more than a year without it too and I know this from experience because I have used more than year old gasoline every year for many years, in many different types of engines. Boats, weed eaters, lawn mowere, motorcycles, cars, RV. What more testing do I need to do withOUT any stabilizer?

    BTW, I have had problems twice in my life with bad gasoline. BOTH times were within ten minutes of filling up an empty tank. IOW, fresh gasoline right from the station that's bad. But start with good gas and it will be good for more than a year in any engine I have owned, and that's a lot of engines.


    -Don-

  6. #46
    DonTom
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    Re: Does gas really go bad?



    "I have been trying to answer, apparently without much success..."

    Yes, because I only need a ONE WORD answer to my most important question, which you still have not answered. Seems you're trying your best to avoid answering.

    So please only answer, "yes" or "no".

    Again, the question is do you believe the following claim made from a fuel stabilizer company?


    "When thoroughly blended with fuel, PRI-G will restore even the most degraded fuels to a refinery-fresh, usable condition "-

    Do you believe? "Yes" or "no". No explanation necessary, I prefer a one word answer to this question.

    -Don-


  7. #47
    DonTom
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    Re: Does gas really go bad?

    "Engines stored over 30 days need to be protected or drained of fuel to prevent gum from forming in the fuel system or in essential carburetor parts... we recommend use of fuel stabilizer..." etc.

    To worry about gasoline only a little over a month old, is ridiculous, IMO, based on my own experience. I can just see myself draining 55 gallons of gasoline out of my RV because I won't be using it for four weeks!

    I do try to go through a tank of gasoline every year in all my engines, but never manage to really do so in them all and still never have any problems.

    -Don-



  8. #48
    mrblanche
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    Re: Does gas really go bad?

    Some say the worst gas you'll ever get is what is in the gas station's tank immediately after a fuel delivery, since that stirs up all the sediment and water in the tank.

    I know the station where I got the worst gas I ever have. I finally had to pump it out of my tank and filter it. Got about a pint of water out of a 10 gallon tank, along with a lot of dirt.

  9. #49
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Does gas really go bad?

    I am not familiar with this PRI-G stuff.

    I was speaking of fuel stabilizer generally - and Sta-Bil, specifically.

  10. #50
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Does gas really go bad?

    "To worry about gasoline only a little over a month old, is ridiculous, IMO, based on my own experience. I can just see myself draining 55 gallons of gasoline out of my RV because I won't be using it for four weeks!"

    No more rdiculous than ignoring warnings/recommendations about octane ratings or oil quality in my book. These cautions and recommendations are there for a reason. This isn't Slick 50 or Motor Honey we're talking about.

    Ignore the recommendations if you believe you know better.

    I'd rather listen to the experts.

  11. #51
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Does gas really go bad?

    "How come you refuse to answer with your opinion about PRI-G, which claims to fix old gasoline to refinery spec? Do you believe it or not? "

    You have brought into this debate a product I am not familiar with - and which I can't say anything about, either way.

    I do know that the one product we have been discussing - Sta-Bil - has been specifically recommended by various engine manufacturers and so I have to assume it does what it is supposed to do. The alternative is to believe that major comapnies like Briggs & Stratton and Honda are useful idiots (or just outright dishonest) and peddling snake oil to their consumers - and have been doing so for decades.

    I don't buy that.

  12. #52
    DonTom
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    Re: Does gas really go bad?

    "Some say the worst gas you'll ever get is what is in the gas station's tank immediately after a fuel delivery, since that stirs up all the sediment and water in the tank."

    I have heard the same, that you should not fill up when the gas truck is at the station, or if you know it was just there in the last 20 minutes or so. I see no reason to doubt that, as it makes sense.

    However, the two times I got bad gasoline there was no gas truck in sight. One was a BUSY Shell gas station at the GraveVine on highway 5 (southern CA). The other was a not so busy gas station in Oregon near the Idaho border, out in the middle of nowhere, which was an independent with a weird name I have not seen before. I though something was odd, because the pump had an extra high octane sticker. Higher than I have ever seen before. I don't now recall the number, but I think it was 97 or above. Whatever it was, I have never seen an octane rating so high at any other gas station.

    In both cases, I ran the vehicle (one car and one 3/4 ton van, (both GM V-8's from around 1980) and just let them cut out and die every so often. But in both cases, I drove about an hour and refilled at the next gas station and the improvements were noticed right away and totally disappeared by the tank full after.

    BTW, several years ago, on high way 101, dozens of cars died on the freeway. They all got gas from the same busy gas station in San Rafael. So many cars, it made the news. That's how I heard about it.

    So far, every story I have heard about problems with bad gasoline was gas fresh from the pump, only minutes old. Same with my own experiences. IMO, start with good gas and it's good for more than a year.

    -Don-

  13. #53
    DonTom
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    Re: Does gas really go bad?

    "No more ridiculous than ignoring warnings/recommendations about octane ratings or oil quality in my book. These cautions and recommendations are there for a reason. This isn't Slick 50 or Motor Honey we're talking about.

    Ignore the recommendations if you believe you know better.

    I'd rather listen to the experts. "


    I have been ignoring them--for years--with no problems at all, when in comes to Sta-Bil, in stuff such as generators and lawn mowers. AFAIK, no auto or motorcycle manufacturer recommends the stuff.

    BTW, I do believe what Sta-Bil claims. It keeps fuel fresh for a year. But it's fresh enough, IMO, without it, in one year. I've done so enough to make the claim.

    I also believe now what Slick 50 claims. Have you seen what they now claim? Absolutely nothing! The can of Slick 50 says stuff such as "rings, valves, pistons, rods and etc. But it doesn't say it does a singe thing to them!

    -Don-

  14. #54
    DonTom
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    Re: Does gas really go bad?

    "You have brought into this debate a product I am not familiar with - and which I can't say anything about, either way."

    Fair enough. But it might be worth looking into, if their claims are true. There's the fix for my 3 or four year old gasoline in my 1971 BMW R75/5!

    "I do know that the one product we have been discussing - Sta-Bil - has been specifically recommended by various engine manufacturers and so I have to assume it does what it is supposed to do. The alternative is to believe that major companies like Briggs & Stratton and Honda are useful idiots (or just outright dishonest) and peddling snake oil to their consumers - and have been doing so for decades."

    I assume they bought into it without comparing to gasoline with and without Sta-Bil.

    Let me go find a bottle now. I have some in my garage.

    A 32 oz bottle of STA-BIL(treats 80 gallons of gasoline):


    "Stored fuel deteriorates in 60 days"

    "STA-BIL keeps fresh fuel for 12 months"


    And it shows a pic of gas with and without STA-Bil "after accelerated aging equal to three months". The three months old gas is very dark without Sta-Bil and is as clear as water with it.

    I wonder why they could not find real 3 month old gas for their testing!

    But if we believe the other fuel stabilizer company, we then know the color of the gasoline means nothing. It can be very dark and still be up to "refinery specification". I wonder who's correct.

    Perhaps it's like brake fluid, where the experts at Yamaha claim dark brake fluid means nothing and it should not be changed if only because it's extra dark. Heat makes it get dark, but it does not change the specs of the brake fluid.

    So does dark gasoline mean anything or not? It depends on who we ask! But regardless if dark or not, I know from experience that one year (and more) old gasoline works fine and causes no problems.

    -Skeptic Don

  15. #55
    mrblanche
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    Re: Does gas really go bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom
    BTW, I do believe what Sta-Bil claims. It keeps fuel fresh for a year. But it's fresh enough, IMO, without it, in one year. I've done so enough to make the claim.

    I also believe now what Slick 50 claims. Have you seen what they now claim? Absolutely nothing! The can of Slick 50 says stuff such as "rings, valves, pistons, rods and etc. But it doesn't say it does a singe thing to them!

    -Don-[/color]
    Obviously, the most volatile components of gasoline evaporate first. Where will they go? In today's largely closed systems, they won't get far. I wonder if the loss of those volatiles would raise or lower the octane rating of the remaining gasoline.

  16. #56
    DonTom
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    Re: Does gas really go bad?

    " I wonder if the loss of those volatiles would raise or lower the octane rating of the remaining gasoline."

    Yes, I can believe the spes change a little when the gasoline gets old. But not enough to cause any serious problems in a year or so.

    BTW, I have gas in older engines too, with no problems.

    -Don-

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