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Thread: Ancient Greenland Was Actually Green........Gee and NO CARS/SUV/TRUCKS to BLAME!

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  1. #1
    XRocketman1967
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    Ancient Greenland Was Actually Green........Gee and NO CARS/SUV/TRUCKS to BLAME!


    ;D ???

    By Ker Than, LiveScience Staff Writer

    posted: 05 July 2007 02:01 pm ET

    The oldest ever recovered DNA samples have been collected from under more than a mile of Greenland ice, and their analysis suggests the island was much warmer during the last Ice Age than previously thought.

    The DNA is proof that sometime between 450,000 and 800,000 years ago, much of Greenland was especially green and covered in a boreal forest that was home to alder, spruce and pine trees, as well as insects such as butterflies and beetles.

    From the genetic material of these organisms, the researchers infer that Greenland?s temperature once varied from 50 degrees Fahrenheit in summer to 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit in winter?the temperature range that the tree species prefer.

    ?We have shown for the first time that southern Greenland ... was once very different to the Greenland we see today,? said study leader Eske Willerslev of the University of Copenhagen.

    Less glacial cover in ancient Greenland means the global ocean was probably between three and six feet higher during that time compared to current levels, the scientists say.

    ?To get this site ice free you would?ve had to remove the ice cover from about the southern third of Greenland,? study team member Martin Sharp, a glaciologist at the University of Alberta, Canada, told LiveScience.

    The findings, detailed in the July 6 issue of the journal Science, demonstrate how far the young field of ancient DNA research has come: scientists can now recreate an environment?s climate and ecology using only recovered DNA, without the need for fossils that might be absent or hard to reach.

    ?To go from dirty water to a forest full of insects is pretty amazing,? study team member Matthew Collins, a biomolecular archaeologist at the University of York, said in a related Science news article.

    Greenland?s thick ice sheets served as a perfect, natural freezer for preserving the prehistoric DNA. Older genetic samples have been found, but none in such pristine condition as the new Greenland samples.

    The team says their technique could be applied to DNA found in other icy parts of the globe, such as Antarctica. ?Given that 10 percent of the Earth?s terrestrial surface is covered by thick ice sheets, it could open up a world of new discoveries,? said study team member Enrico Cappellini of the University of York in the United Kingdom.

    Plants still survive in Greenland today, although mostly along the island?s coast, since the interior is blanketed in ice. ?There?s tundra vegetation,? Sharp said. ?There?s also dwarf birch probably, and willows almost are certain. But not pine or spruce, which we have in the DNA here.?

  2. #2
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    Re: Ancient Greenland Was Actually Green........Gee and NO CARS/SUV/TRUCKS to BL

    Heresy!

    Its' a sure thing that the people who did that researech will be losing not only their reputations but also their grants. They will be shunned in academe.

  3. #3
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    Re: Ancient Greenland Was Actually Green........Gee and NO CARS/SUV/TRUCKS to BLAME!

    Nobody is denying that Greenland has been warmer.
    Nobody sensible, anyway.

    The issue is short-term warming and economic effects right now, together with land-use, overpopulation and recource-depletion. CO2 is only a part of that, and even then hasn't been proven to be certainly relevant, only *maybe* relevant.

    A greater thing about big US vehicles apart from emisssions is that they use too much fuel and you have to buy it from the ME.  Even greater is that Japan and much of the developled world wants cheap oil..  and when I drive my 5.7 V8 I personally dislike all SUVs and box-like large vehicles and would have them banned for tuppence.
    The US is the most vulnerable to high oil prices though...

  4. #4
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
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    Re: Ancient Greenland Was Actually Green........Gee and NO CARS/SUV/TRUCKS to BLAME!

    Shame about the spruce, we could use a good supply, the sitka spruce supply in Alaska is dwindling.

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    Re: Ancient Greenland Was Actually Green........Gee and NO CARS/SUV/TRUCKS to BL

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg

    The US is the most vulnerable to high oil prices though...
    Maybe not - should the prices reach some unthinkable point, we'd simple put all of the environmentalists in the dungeon, open up existing fields, turn coal into gasoline and begin utilizing secondary sources like the Colorado oil shale. We'd also get fossil fuel out of power production and use nukes.

    This is no big deal, it's main import is to give the congenital whimperers something to whimper about.

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    Re: Ancient Greenland Was Actually Green........Gee and NO CARS/SUV/TRUCKS to BL

    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    should the prices reach some unthinkable point, we'd simple put all of the environmentalists in the dungeon, open up existing fields, turn coal into gasoline and begin utilizing secondary sources like the Colorado oil shale. We'd also get fossil fuel out of power production and use nukes.

    This is no big deal, it's main import is to give the congenital whimperers something to whimper about.
    You worry about your trade deficit, you worry about oil, but ultimately, you just want to be part of a post-
    Industrial Age war where you by dint of circimstance are the richest consumers on earth. You are very good people too, by and large, as are the English.

    But overpopulation is gonna hurt. China actually does something about it. Will Americans stop this 'circling the wagons' mentality ever? Europe transposed to a land of free resources.

    I don't know what you mean by 'envirinentalists'. Your beloved NYC is full of clean water.
    But wouldn't be except for London 1850-1870.

    And who is "whimpering" about life? Environmentalists are more the young who exalt in life. They have brains. Yet you have disparaged teacher too. Few men take up reaching these days. Kids watch videos and accuse teachers of 'touching'.

    Every time I follow a 4WD I wish the vehicle banned, down to the size of below RAV4. And think when personal transport was in small cars. America is so dispersed that its economy needs diesel trucks, and trains. Its complete lack of organisation on a national level would require all-out war to be efficient, last achieved in 1942-5.

    The elephant in the room is consumerism.
    And the outcome of that wil will very soon be defined by the pressures of rising middle class in Asia.

    I blame The Waltons








  7. #7
    mrblanche
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    Re: Ancient Greenland Was Actually Green........Gee and NO CARS/SUV/TRUCKS to BL

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg
    You worry about your trade deficit, you worry about oil, but ultimately, you just want to be part of a post-
    Industrial Age war where you by dint of circimstance are the richest consumers on earth. You are very good people too, by and large, as are the English.

    I blame the Waltons.
    Actually, the only population growth in the U.S. is by immigration. We are at a negative birth rate, give or take.

    The Waltons? John Boy, et al, on the mountain? What do they have to do with it? Except that there were far too many of them.

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    Re: Ancient Greenland Was Actually Green........Gee and NO CARS/SUV/TRUCKS to BL

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg

    You worry about your trade deficit, you worry about oil, but ultimately, you just want to be part of a post-
    Industrial Age war where you by dint of circumstance are the richest consumers on earth. You are very good people too, by and large, as are the English.
    And your own circumstance ain't so bad, living east of Eden as you do.


    But overpopulation is gonna hurt. China actually does something about it.
    Utter rot, China's one child policy is leading to far more male than female children, a seemingly good idea until it's time to repopulate.


    Every time I follow a 4WD I wish the vehicle banned, down to the size of below RAV4. And think when personal transport was in small cars.
    Small cars for small minds, narrow roads, and no place to go.



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    Re: Ancient Greenland Was Actually Green........Gee and NO CARS/SUV/TRUCKS to BLAME!

    Fair points.

    Even if the emotion was a bit overdone.

    I haven't got the energy to do the adversary style argument. It is nicer to listen to music or depict trains in my curious and quite unfashionable manner.

    While nobody who bought Model Rail 103 knows my demeanour the way you do. None know that I get maybe 12 hours and am paralysed. And I have little or nothing to do with the Model Train fraternity nor the train buffs... I went from steam to motorbikes to Minis to V8s biut don't much like, say, the tech in a Toyota Hybrid

    Thankyou for visiting.

    You are of course some sort of un-grounded mind and you should take the advice of your teachers.

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