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Thread: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

  1. #1
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    Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    Sub-primes are in the toilet,

    but what do we make of this? Seems to my un-informed mind that a lot of numbers were/are being shifted around.

    I get the feeling that there are a lot of people who make money on 'margin' and the top guys have fixed things rather well.usually using actionable legal redress.

    Presumably too many people have taken risk. And if it all falls, who's law prevails? Ours? Russian?

    Explain please.

  2. #2
    mrblanche
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg
    Sub-primes are in the toilet,

    but what do we make of this? Seems to my un-informed mind that a lot of numbers were/are being shifted around.

    I get the feeling that there are a lot of people who make money on 'margin' and the top guys have fixed things rather well.usually using actionable legal redress.

    Presumably too many people have taken risk. And if it all falls, who's law prevails? Ours? Russian?

    Explain please.
    Until fairly recently, a lot of the sub-prime lending practices were illegal in Texas. No second mortgages, for example, no equity loans. You could not increase the indebtedness on a home without increasing its value (say, building a swimming pool).

    For a number of reasons, it has become popular to view a home as an investment, which it was...when it was bought as a place to live, and the value growth was incidental.

  3. #3
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    Just out of interest, what does TX do for clean water?

  4. #4
    mrblanche
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg
    Just out of interest, what does TX do for clean water?
    Mainly catches it as rainwater in surface reservoirs. Out west, they pump it out of the aquifer.

  5. #5
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche

    For a number of reasons, it has become popular to view a home as an investment, which it was...when it was bought as a place to live, and the value growth was incidental.
    A few years ago there was a radio financial advice guy who advocated using one's home as one' bank account. He was found to have a conflict with the stuff he was touting and is long gone.

    I never had a reason to learn Texas land law but the original ideas make a lot of sense to me. At one time there was a very benign view on bankruptcy, too.

  6. #6
    mrblanche
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    Yeah, in bankruptcy, you couldn't lose your house, land, tractor, or mule.

    The laws were designed to keep daddy from gambling the house away on Saturday night, or borrowing against it and skipping town, leaving the family penniless. And the community property laws and marriage laws protected women from being treated as property and left with nothing.

    (Big hint: In Texas, don't sign anything as Mr. and Mrs., and don't introduce yourself to anyone as Mr. and Mrs., if you don't want her owning half your stuff, married or not.)

  7. #7
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    There is a lot to admire in Texas.

    British colony once, was it?

  8. #8
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    >>(Big hint: In Texas, don't sign anything as Mr. and Mrs., and don't introduce yourself to anyone as Mr. and Mrs., if you don't want her owning half your stuff, married or not.)<<

    True only for co-habitation without a license. Take out a license and get married and you now enter into a thing called community property in Texas. She owns half of it.

  9. #9
    mrblanche
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Rose
    True only for co-habitation without a license. Take out a license and get married and you now enter into a thing called community property in Texas. She owns half of it.
    My point was that if you ever hold yourselves out to be married, by Texas law, you ARE married, and she owns half, no matter what the guy thinks.

  10. #10
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    So, no shacking up at the Motel-6, registering as Mr & Mrs. Jones, then.


    Chip H.

    Former owner: 2012 Honda Civic LX, 2006 Honda Ridgeline RTL, 2000 Honda CR-V EX, 2003 MINI Cooper S, 1992 Honda Accord LX, 1999 Mercedes ML-320, 1995 VW Jetta GLX, 1991 Mercury Capri XR2, 1981 Mercury Zephyr, 1975 Chevrolet Impala

  11. #11
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    Looks like the market stabilized somewhat today. Was down almost 2% this morning, but back to it's starting point by the close.

    The Feds pumped in 38 billion today, and the Europeans made 61 billion euros available.

    Chip H.

    Former owner: 2012 Honda Civic LX, 2006 Honda Ridgeline RTL, 2000 Honda CR-V EX, 2003 MINI Cooper S, 1992 Honda Accord LX, 1999 Mercedes ML-320, 1995 VW Jetta GLX, 1991 Mercury Capri XR2, 1981 Mercury Zephyr, 1975 Chevrolet Impala

  12. #12
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    Quote Originally Posted by chiph
    Looks like the market stabilized somewhat today. Was down almost 2% this morning, but back to it's starting point by the close.

    The Feds pumped in 38 billion today, and the Europeans made 61 billion euros available.

    Chip H.
    Well, the market behavior is beyond me. If it is necessary to make bad loans to keep spec housing builders in business, maybe they should find another trade.

    Lenders who made conforming loans and the small banks, S&Ls, etc, who both know the borrowers and hold their own paper are doing just fine. The people who originate conforming loans lay off the paper very quickly and have little exposure to loss. Not that this does anything to help the spec builders.


  13. #13
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    If it is necessary to make bad loans to keep spec housing builders in business, maybe they should find another trade.

    Lenders who made conforming loans and the small banks, S&Ls, etc, who both know the borrowers and hold their own paper are doing just fine. The people who originate conforming loans lay off the paper very quickly and have little exposure to loss. Not that this does anything to help the spec builders.
    This bad debt thing may have extended into general valuation of assets. And it's my opinion that most stocks are still overvalued.

  14. #14
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg

    This bad debt thing may have extended into general valuation of assets. And it's my opinion that most stocks are still overvalued.
    Very likely the case but ... those in for the long haul will no doubt survive. I try not to worry about such things.

  15. #15
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    those in for the long haul will no doubt survive. I try not to worry about such things.
    The energy of youth is apparent in the people around me.

    Will you now admit that CO2 and global warming is a fact? That 100 years hence most must deal with extreme weather, plague and famine.

    Remember, the US health officially announced around 1953 that infectious disease was "now conquered" which was a bit like the 1922 announcement fro the patent office, "We are redundant. Everything important has been done". [paraphrased]

    You and others here took every available intelligent advice on the issue of global warming, and at best you admittted it was an open question.
    You snarl and bitch about various magazines, and incredibly, most of you submit to a God.. at least the rest of the world is amazed that nobody in power in the USA can get into power unless they say, "Yes, Jesus was the saviour."

    Jesus was a charismatic communist, who got a crowd of semi-literate people around him.

    Having been in coma three times now I can attest that for me anyway the near-death situation is this. All you care about is this; you are faintly aware of caring from people around you. In all my cases this involved ambulence volunteers, and skilled people doing a job. They were doing things on a principle which is greater than religion, they were simply able to help someone who needed it, as I have done in a few cases.

    I guess the spin-doctors will advise Hillary to make fervent Christians friendly, and threats from 'them' [Islam] in the background. Which is standard village mentality, personally I'd rather go with the flow of life, war, sex, drink, machines, and a steady supply of potatoes.

  16. #16
    mrblanche
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    Quote Originally Posted by chiph
    So, no shacking up at the Motel-6, registering as Mr & Mrs. Jones, then.


    Chip H.
    Exactly. And, if either party THINKS they are married, they ARE married. No fake weddings to get her to bed.

    This is exactly the reason for title insurance in Texas. "Long-lost" wives show up all the time.

  17. #17
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg

    Will you now admit that CO2 and global warming is a fact? That 100 years hence most must deal with extreme weather, plague and famine.
    I'll admit that a lot of people are making careers out of that proposition. I ain't good enough to extrapolate a 1,000 years of weather from what amounts to a single data point.


    Having been in coma three times now I can attest that for me anyway the near-death situation is this. All you care about is this; you are faintly aware of caring from people around you. In all my cases this involved ambulence volunteers, and skilled people doing a job.
    My only near death experience did not involve a coma but enough pain to make death an interesting alternative.

    personally I'd rather go with the flow of life, war, sex, drink, machines, and a steady supply of potatoes.
    At last, total agreement so long as the spuds are fried in pig lard.

  18. #18
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    >>My point was that if you ever hold yourselves out to be married, by Texas law, you ARE married, and she owns half, no matter what the guy thinks.<<

    But you stated "Married or not"--- If you are married legally, it immediately becomes "community property"--- Unless you have a Pre-nuptual agreement.
    Commonlaw marriage happens after 7 years of co-habitation regardless of how or what you state she is.

  19. #19
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Rose
    Unless you have a Pre-nuptual agreement.
    Commonlaw marriage happens after 7 years of co-habitation regardless of how or what you state she is.
    Only takes three years down here.

  20. #20
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    Re: Invisible Wealth Sub Primes

    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg

    Will you now admit that CO2 and global warming is a fact? That 100 years hence most must deal with extreme weather, plague and famine.
    I'll admit that a lot of people are making careers out of that proposition. I ain't good enough to extrapolate a 1,000 years of weather from what amounts to a single data point.
    Call me a foolish Empiricist then.
    I accept that we are experiencing short-term [say, 100 years] warming and that our CO2 imprint is significant and *likely* to be a factor [not proven], possibly as much by destruction of tropical forest as cars or power stations. Models based around probability rather than proof point to a likelihood of further warming. We ain't going to stop population-increase and resource depletion. I judge in *probable* [as in CERTAIN] that we will have more plagues, floods and famines. But all tarot-readers say that... A whole lot of smog from China may allow little cooling.

    My only near death experience did not involve a coma but enough pain to make death an interesting alternative.
    Good. A man has not lived till his eyes have watered with tears. It is nice that we tend to forget the darkest moments. Or something akin to the old ship-board amputation anaesthetic of a lot of rum or whisky and a block of soft wood and cloth to bite-on... but of course that doesn't help long-term knawing stuff, of which I know a little.
    I do know that being alone and without likely relief is very hard. I know that sometimes a nurse or doctor would spend time simply sitting and holding my hand. It was part of what was termed 'specialing' a patient and didn't involve extra drugs. It was never written-up so far as I know as anything official.. probably some euphemism like 'under observation', but for several days in two cases I was 'specialed' but was not actually concious, or at least I don't remember it. except short moments

    This was in the days before hospitals had become 'efficient' and penecillin still worked. The doctors and nurses involved are still around, mostly near retirement or 'burned-out'. Currently our hospitals are full to overflowing, and would be a very bad place to be.

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