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Thread: Turned down a road trip...

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    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Turned down a road trip...

    Because of the prospect of Va's new "civil remedial fees."

    Two of my buddies wanted to ride across the state, then into TN, on bikes... I thought about it, then decided to nix the idea because I just don't need a $1,050 fine for doing 76-something mph (easy to do on a bike) and the alternative - plodding along at the speed limit for hours on end to avoid the ticket - ruins the ride for me.

    I wonder whether these ever-more-aggressive laws are keeping other enthusiast riders/drivers home?



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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    Because of the prospect of Va's new "civil remedial fees."

    Two of my buddies wanted to ride across the state, then into TN, on bikes... I thought about it, then decided to nix the idea because I just don't need a $1,050 fine for doing 76-something mph (easy to do on a bike) and the alternative - plodding along at the speed limit for hours on end to avoid the ticket - ruins the ride for me.

    I wonder whether these ever-more-aggressive laws are keeping other enthusiast riders/drivers home?
    I bet so. As for myself, I find the traffic here in Central Florida to be unbearable. On Interstate 4, towards Orlando, you run into pockets of real mind-numbing traffic jams about every 3 miles or so. They last for about a mile and then speed picks up. On other interstates, you end up contending with the usual stupid drivers who like to hang in the left lane. Even on the widened sections of I-95, it is just plain boring.

    Off of the interstate, you are treated to an endless concrete sprawl that lasts 50-60 miles followed by a brief 5 mile or so reprieve. Then, there's the random housing tract in the middle of nowhere along with the requisite gas station, Publix and if the area gets big enough, say in 5 years, a Wal-Mart.

    The roads everywhere are littered with cops in waiting. On my way to work yesterday, I ran into 3 radar traps in 24 miles. Most all of them were on 417, the toll road that traverses eastern Orlando. The worst part about that road is that was designed by a committee of gutless politicians. There isn't a straight line on the whole damned road. For what you pay to drive it, its one of the worst roads I've seen outside NYC. The speed limit is 65 mph, but you get legions of morons traveling at 55-60 in the right lane and the occasional gutless wonder who travels in the left lane at exactly 65 to pass these poltroons.

    I am sickened by the whole driving situation. To combat it, I only drive when I have to and I ride my bicycle when I can.

    If they try this high fine crapola here in Florida, I'm through completely.

  3. #3
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    Quote Originally Posted by swamprat
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    Because of the prospect of Va's new "civil remedial fees."

    Two of my buddies wanted to ride across the state, then into TN, on bikes... I thought about it, then decided to nix the idea because I just don't need a $1,050 fine for doing 76-something mph (easy to do on a bike) and the alternative - plodding along at the speed limit for hours on end to avoid the ticket - ruins the ride for me.

    I wonder whether these ever-more-aggressive laws are keeping other enthusiast riders/drivers home?
    I bet so. As for myself, I find the traffic here in Central Florida to be unbearable. On Interstate 4, towards Orlando, you run into pockets of real mind-numbing traffic jams about every 3 miles or so. They last for about a mile and then speed picks up. On other interstates, you end up contending with the usual stupid drivers who like to hang in the left lane. Even on the widened sections of I-95, it is just plain boring.

    Off of the interstate, you are treated to an endless concrete sprawl that lasts 50-60 miles followed by a brief 5 mile or so reprieve. Then, there's the random housing tract in the middle of nowhere along with the requisite gas station, Publix and if the area gets big enough, say in 5 years, a Wal-Mart.

    The roads everywhere are littered with cops in waiting. On my way to work yesterday, I ran into 3 radar traps in 24 miles. Most all of them were on 417, the toll road that traverses eastern Orlando. The worst part about that road is that was designed by a committee of gutless politicians. There isn't a straight line on the whole damned road. For what you pay to drive it, its one of the worst roads I've seen outside NYC. The speed limit is 65 mph, but you get legions of morons traveling at 55-60 in the right lane and the occasional gutless wonder who travels in the left lane at exactly 65 to pass these poltroons.

    I am sickened by the whole driving situation. To combat it, I only drive when I have to and I ride my bicycle when I can.

    If they try this high fine crapola here in Florida, I'm through completely.
    Man, I hear you...

    DC was just like that; could not take anymore. And even here, in rural SW Va., it is becoming more and more NoVa-like each year.

    I am thankful I at least got some good years in; people our age are the last generation that got to taste the American Dream, Today's it's mostly just a mirage....

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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    It was a mirage back then, just a little better mirage. By the time you and I graduated school, economic instability had set in the American economy, housing was taking a greater share of income, wages stagnated and unemployment had become a part of American life. If you had luck and good sense (as you have), you have escaped the clutches of a toilet drain economy. I am taking a nice long swim at the moment, though not down the hole yet.

    I feel like I have been shortchanged by virtue of chronological age from the American dream. Had I been born 25years earlier, I probably would be in the "I've got mine club" with the previous generation, although you never know. I see some 70+ year olds at work.. Unless home prices drop 75 percent, I think that home ownership is a losing proposition for someone entering the market. I'm not so sure that I want to anyway. I may want to just pull up and outta here when the time is right. Americas best days are truly behind and anyone who thinks otherwise is drinking partisan KoolAid. We still live in the world's best country, but its slipping away fast.

  5. #5
    mrblanche
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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    Quote Originally Posted by swamprat
    Unless home prices drop 75 percent, I think that home ownership is a losing proposition for someone entering the market. I'm not so sure that I want to anyway. I may want to just pull up and outta here when the time is right. Americas best days are truly behind and anyone who thinks otherwise is drinking partisan KoolAid. We still live in the world's best country, but its slipping away fast.
    I would disagree, under some very distinct restrictions. That is, a home was a great investment...as long as it was within the means of the buyer, and was bought as a residence, not an investment.

    Home ownership isn't for everyone, but if you want to own a home, it's not that difficult. What IS difficult is owning a home that you have bought with every last penny you have, and which takes all your income just to keep up with.

    Back when I sold houses, I never took the attitude of "buy all the house you can possibly afford." I didn't sell as many houses as some of the agents, but what I sold stayed sold. And a number of those buyers are still in those houses, 25 years later.

    We bought near the bottom of the market in our area for new homes, and we've been in it for 10+ years now. We bought down the interest rate rather than using some excess money for upgrades, and we refinanced with a 15-year fixed note when interest rates got close to the bottom. Now we have a lot of equity and less than 10 years to go.

    And we have a house and 26 acres in Arkansas. We built the house out of pocket, borrowing none of the cost.

  6. #6
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    Quote Originally Posted by swamprat
    It was a mirage back then, just a little better mirage. By the time you and I graduated school, economic instability had set in the American economy, housing was taking a greater share of income, wages stagnated and unemployment had become a part of American life. If you had luck and good sense (as you have), you have escaped the clutches of a toilet drain economy. I am taking a nice long swim at the moment, though not down the hole yet.

    I feel like I have been shortchanged by virtue of chronological age from the American dream. Had I been born 25years earlier, I probably would be in the "I've got mine club" with the previous generation, although you never know. I see some 70+ year olds at work.. Unless home prices drop 75 percent, I think that home ownership is a losing proposition for someone entering the market. I'm not so sure that I want to anyway. I may want to just pull up and outta here when the time is right. Americas best days are truly behind and anyone who thinks otherwise is drinking partisan KoolAid. We still live in the world's best country, but its slipping away fast.
    Being paranoid definitely helped me with both work and money... I never trusted/assumed any job would last, so always had a back-up plan and tried to make my move (when necessary) before events made the move for me! ( I also always drove old beater cars and hoarded money; worked like a coolie, too, through my 20s... missed a lot of partying, but the sacrifice was well worth it since I got to the point where I didn't "have" to work - or at least, could be much more selective about work - by my late 30s...)

    On real estate: A few years after I bought the house in Sterling (I was single then), when the prices began to shoot up in the late '90s, my Spider Sense told me it was distorted and could not last. Houses that were bought just a few years earlier for $150k had ballooned in "price" (not value) to more than twice that... and the price inflation had everyone hypnotized into thinking it would go on forever.I don't claim to be super smart or knowledgeable - but common sense told me that there was no way annual appreciation rates of 20-plus percent could go on indefinitely. As the prices of houses in our neighborhood (I was married by this time) sailed past $400k, my common sense told me it was time to punch out. No way a 30-year-old tract house of 1,800 sq. ft. on a slab and 1/4 acre in a mixed neighborhood could rise much higher; it simply could not be sustained... so we bailed.

    And did the unconventional - but common sense - thing: Instead of buying a more expensive house in Northern Va, we bought a much less expensive one in rural SW Va. The irony is that while the price of this house (the one we're in now) was considerably less than the sales price of our old house, the value of the new house is a helluva lot greater. Instead of 1,800 sq. ft. of mass-produced tract house on 1/3 acre, we now have a custom-built (and much better-built) 3,200 sq. ft. house with a full basement, oversized garage, casement windows, wood floors, etc (plus a two story guest house and a large tractor/storage shed) on 8.3 acres of land... and it's paid for.

    We were lucky (and common sensical) and I realize most people weren't as favorably positioned - and I feel for them. One reason we've elected to not have kids is our belief that the world of 2020 is apt to be a dismal place of too many people/not enough work/ever-lower-living standards for the average person.









  7. #7
    gail
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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    Because of the prospect of Va's new "civil remedial fees."

    Two of my buddies wanted to ride across the state, then into TN, on bikes... I thought about it, then decided to nix the idea because I just don't need a $1,050 fine for doing 76-something mph (easy to do on a bike) and the alternative - plodding along at the speed limit for hours on end to avoid the ticket - ruins the ride for me.

    I wonder whether these ever-more-aggressive laws are keeping other enthusiast riders/drivers home?


    Rules and regulations seems to becoming more prevalent in our everyday lives, not just on the highways. There are home owner regs, apt. dwellers rules, banks, credit cards, on and on. It seems everyone wants to control us. I personally am sick to death of it all. I wouldn't have canceled the trip, I would have flaunted it. How much more will the American people take?

  8. #8
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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    A lot of the excessive rules & regulations are the result of people & companies attempting to pass any risks onto someone else (like, their customers, or the public)

    Chip H.

    Former owner: 2012 Honda Civic LX, 2006 Honda Ridgeline RTL, 2000 Honda CR-V EX, 2003 MINI Cooper S, 1992 Honda Accord LX, 1999 Mercedes ML-320, 1995 VW Jetta GLX, 1991 Mercury Capri XR2, 1981 Mercury Zephyr, 1975 Chevrolet Impala

  9. #9
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    " How much more will the American people take?"


    Apparently, a great deal - especially if it's wrapped in the flag and touted as "patriotic."

  10. #10
    gail
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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    " How much more will the American people take?"


    Apparently, a great deal - especially if it's wrapped in the flag and touted as "patriotic."
    Not so, Eric. People take a lot out of fear - they want security and safety in a world of unknowns. they have never lived under oppossion, so they have no idea where we are headed.

  11. #11
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    Quote Originally Posted by gail
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    " How much more will the American people take?"


    Apparently, a great deal - especially if it's wrapped in the flag and touted as "patriotic."
    Not so, Eric. People take a lot out of fear - they want security and safety in a world of unknowns. they have never lived under oppossion, so they have no idea where we are headed.
    Fear and BS patriotism together are a potent combo... for example, the "Patriot" Act (passed, by their own admission, without even having been read) and all the "Homeland Security" scheisse, too.

    I am happy to see so many of the "conservative" "patriot" "fambly values" poseurs who either pushed this crap (or unfailingly supported it) caught with their pants down in men's rooms, soliciting man sex and otherwise being shown for what they really are.

  12. #12
    gail
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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    Quote Originally Posted by gail
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    " How much more will the American people take?"


    Apparently, a great deal - especially if it's wrapped in the flag and touted as "patriotic."
    Not so, Eric. People take a lot out of fear - they want security and safety in a world of unknowns. they have never lived under oppossion, so they have no idea where we are headed.
    Fear and BS patriotism together are a potent combo... for example, the "Patriot" Act (passed, by their own admission, without even having been read) and all the "Homeland Security" scheisse, too.

    I am happy to see so many of the "conservative" "patriot" "fambly values" poseurs who either pushed this crap (or unfailingly supported it) caught with their pants down in men's rooms, soliciting man sex and otherwise being shown for what they really are.
    I'm not the expert on male homosexual behaviorbut when is tapping your foot and straightening our your sock construed as soliciting? Don will have to help us out here to see if this is some kind of code.

    Whether the good Senator is queer or not - he certainly screwed up by not getting an attorney straight off. I wouldn't talk with a cop to give him the time of day without getting an attorney first.

    Did you hear the bathroom recording? It is ambiguous at best, sort as if the Senator said in exasperation, "Fine! I did it!" But either way it just goes to show you that it is still considered divant behavior.

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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    Quote Originally Posted by gail
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    " How much more will the American people take?"


    Apparently, a great deal - especially if it's wrapped in the flag and touted as "patriotic."
    Not so, Eric. People take a lot out of fear - they want security and safety in a world of unknowns. they have never lived under oppossion, so they have no idea where we are headed.
    What is really exasperating is that they turn to the government, next to corporations, being the least trustworthy institution, to solve the problem. Great... morons....I think that 98 percent of voting cards in this country should be burned and let the 1-2 percent of the libertarians choose the next government. Heck, we have had 42 presidents chosen by the dumb majority, so I think a little fairness is in order!

  14. #14
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    "I'm not the expert on male homosexual behaviorbut when is tapping your foot and straightening our your sock construed as soliciting? Don will have to help us out here to see if this is some kind of code."

    Have you read the full police report? Unless you are going to believe the cop is lying through his teeth, the senator was clearly looking for a friend.... That said, I'd be more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt - if this were the first time such an incident had ever taken place. But Craig was implicated in the congressional page scandal back in the early '80s, too. And according to news reports, at least two men have come forward claiming to have had sex with Craig. I tend to think where there's smoke... because it's the most plausible explanation. And don't forget - he admitted guilt to what he knew (despite the softer-sounding language) was an allegation involving sex in a public restroom with another man. Craig's an experienced senator; he knows the law and how legal procedures work... do you really believe he'd have said "guilty" if he hadn't been?

    PS: I normally would not care at all about the man's sexual habits - gay or straight - so long as only consenting adults were involved. What I hate is the bullshit fambly values posturing and gay-bashing of guys like Craig (and Haggard and Vitter "the shitter," etc.).

    One reason I've left the GOP (or more porperly, why the GOP left me - and millions of others) is thecurrent GOP's moralilty policing; I want to hear about public policy - not what goes on in people's bedrooms. I want responsive, limited government and respect for individual rights and the rule of law - not Bible-thumping injunctions about how I should order my private affairs. I want criminals locked up and the border protected - not childish rants about the "gay agenda."



  15. #15
    DonTom
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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    "Don will have to help us out here to see if this is some kind of code."

    The first I heard of that "code" is when this issue came up.

    -Don-

  16. #16
    DonTom
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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    About 20 years ago, in San Francisco's Golden Gate Park, there were many complaints about what went on in the men's public restroom. Some of it was seen by kids. So the police set up a sting operation. It was on TV back then.

    Almost every male caught was married to a woman, some with kids. Their biggest fear was that their wife would find out.

    My theory is those gays stuck in a heterosexual relationship (for whatever reason) get sexally frustrated and since they cannot have a decent same sex relationship when married to a woman, they often look for quickies where they don't even have to know the names of the other. These types of closet cases are the most promiscuous gays you will ever find anywhere.

    This thing with Senator Craig reminds me of the typical severe closet case.

    BTW, in 1982, there were complaints about Senator Craig by young male pages .

    You can read about it here:


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Craig

    -Don-



  17. #17
    DonTom
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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    "he certainly screwed up by not getting an attorney straight off. I wouldn't talk with a cop to give him the time of day without getting an attorney first."

    I would otherwise agree, but the last thing he wants is for all the details to come out in a courtroom with everybody listening. I think he could beat the case, if that's all they have on him, but I assume there's more they are not telling UNLESS it goes to court. Police like to make deals to avoid the courts. It's part of their job, where possible.

    There is no law against him tapping his feet and all that. Cameras are not allowed in restrooms. It would be a difficult case to prove, IMO, unless there's more.

    Nevertheless, there's no doubt in my mind about ex-Senator's Craig's guilt and what he was trying to do.

    The cop has no motive to set him up. He didn't even know who he was until Craig gave his business card hoping he be let go. But that doesn't mean he could not beat the case, if that's all they had.

    -Don-






  18. #18
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom
    About 20 years ago, in San Francisco's Golden Gate Park, there were many complaints about what went on in the men's public restroom. Some of it was seen by kids. So the police set up a sting operation. It was on TV back then.

    Almost every male caught was married to a woman, some with kids. Their biggest fear was that their wife would find out.

    My theory is those gays stuck in a heterosexual relationship (for whatever reason) get sexally frustrated and since they cannot have a decent same sex relationship when married to a woman, they often look for quickies where they don't even have to know the names of the other. These types of closet cases are the most promiscuous gays you will ever find anywhere.

    This thing with Senator Craig reminds me of the typical severe closet case.

    BTW, in 1982, there were complaints about Senator Craig by young male pages .

    You can read about it here:


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Craig

    -Don-


    Exactly.. I'm always suspicious of these "he doth protest too much" values shysters... something's not right there. But the "flock" rarely, if ever, clues in on the strange obsession these types seem to have with other people's private lives....

  19. #19
    gail
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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    Me believe that the cop could be lying through his teeth. Oh ho, ha ha ha ha ha hee hee hee. If his lips were moving, he was lying. You know the drill -- the end justifies the means, and all that rot.

    Why do you suppose that it is OK for Barney Fag -- er ah Frank - to have a bona fide male partner, fully credentials through the Capitol security as a spouse, but the conservative Senator can't tap his foot and adjust his socks? ??? Hmmm - what is wrong with this picture?

    Oh yes, and Barney's partner was arrested for running a male prostitution ring out of Barney's town home. But of course we all believe that the good Barney didn't know anything about it, don't we?

    Could it be that Clinton with his Monica, and Barney with his free-for-all have no morals? Therefore see no reason for them to resign. Plus, they are being supported by the liberal Democrats who do not have any morals either, so they flaunt their shameless behavior without even the tinge of a conscience. Whereas the Christian conservatives who truly support family and morality are appalled at such behavior. Maybe they have jumped too quick to judgment, but one has to wonder how naive (stupid) is the good Senator when he didn't immediately start demanding an attorney. If I was approached for anything by a cop, my only words would be, "Get me an attorney." What's your name? My name is 'Get me an attorney?'

    I don't know what really happened, but if homosexual behavior is legal and acceptable - what is the big deal? Why would it be any different than a heterosexual picking up a woman in a bar? Oh, you say -- he lied about it. Once again, let me remind you that you supported and defended Clinton with his indiscretions -- and he lied under oath. Where were the demands that he resign? Even after being found guilty during his Impeachment, he still wasn't asked to resign. Me thinkest there is a tad of hypocrisy going on.

    I will just have to quit humming country tunes and tapping my toe lest I get arrested for solicitation. Where does one learn these codes? Hell, I haven't even figured out how to pick up a guy yet, much less a gal. Or, maybe I just find such behavior beneath me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    "I'm not the expert on male homosexual behaviorbut when is tapping your foot and straightening our your sock construed as soliciting? Don will have to help us out here to see if this is some kind of code."

    Have you read the full police report? Unless you are going to believe the cop is lying through his teeth, the senator was clearly looking for a friend.... That said, I'd be more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt - if this were the first time such an incident had ever taken place. But Craig was implicated in the congressional page scandal back in the early '80s, too. And according to news reports, at least two men have come forward claiming to have had sex with Craig. I tend to think where there's smoke... because it's the most plausible explanation. And don't forget - he admitted guilt to what he knew (despite the softer-sounding language) was an allegation involving sex in a public restroom with another man. Craig's an experienced senator; he knows the law and how legal procedures work... do you really believe he'd have said "guilty" if he hadn't been?

    PS: I normally would not care at all about the man's sexual habits - gay or straight - so long as only consenting adults were involved. What I hate is the bullshit fambly values posturing and gay-bashing of guys like Craig (and Haggard and Vitter "the shitter," etc.).

    One reason I've left the GOP (or more porperly, why the GOP left me - and millions of others) is thecurrent GOP's moralilty policing; I want to hear about public policy - not what goes on in people's bedrooms. I want responsive, limited government and respect for individual rights and the rule of law - not Bible-thumping injunctions about how I should order my private affairs. I want criminals locked up and the border protected - not childish rants about the "gay agenda."



  20. #20
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Turned down a road trip...

    "Why do you suppose that it is OK for Barney Fag -- er ah Frank - to have a bona fide male partner, fully credentials through the Capitol security as a spouse, but the conservative Senator can't tap his foot and adjust his socks? Huh Hmmm - what is wrong with this picture? "

    Are you you kidding me?

    Frank is openly gay and lives with his partner. He does not bray about "fambly values" - while leading a double life, soliciting gay sex in a men's room. See the difference?


    "I don't know what really happened, but if homosexual behavior is legal and acceptable - what is the big deal?"

    It's not the gay stuff; it's the loathsome duplicity of these fambly values Republican shysters.



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