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Thread: Crude Cop Talk

  1. #1
    gail
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    Crude Cop Talk

    You can hear this cop's delight as he shouts in all-caps. Can't wait to run into him on a dark night.

    <<200 FEET? NO! WE USE LASERS NOW. OUR LASERS CAN GET YOU OVER 2500 FEET FROM THE 55 ZONE. IF I PICKED YOU UP 200 FEET FROM THE ZONE I WOULDN'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO STEP OUT INTO THE STREET TO POINT YOU OVER WITHOUT YOU RUNNING ME OVER AND SPOILING MY AFTERNOON. FOR SOME REASON MOTORIST THINK WE (TROOPERS) GET THERE SPEED WHEN THEY ARE RIGHT UPON US, THIS IS SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH. THE REASON WE CATCH YOU IS BECAUSE YOU ARE SO FAR AWAY TO EVEN NOTICE I'M THERE. YOUR RADAR DETECTOR WONT TELL YOU I'M THERE BECAUSE WITH LASER, UNLIKE RADAR, LASER TRAVELS THE SPEED OF LIGHT. I DON'T TURN IT ON UNTIL I'M READY TO SHOOT IT AT YOUR VEHICLE. ONCE I PULL THE TRIGGER, A BEAM OF LIGHT HITS YOUR VEHICLE AND BOUNCES BACK TO MY LASER IN THE SPEED OF LIGHT. BY THE TIME YOU REACT BY SLOWING DOWN IT'S TO LATE, I GOT CHA
    >>

  2. #2
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by gail
    You can hear this cop's delight as he shouts in all-caps. Can't wait to run into him on a dark night.

    <<YOUR RADAR DETECTOR WONT TELL YOU I'M THERE BECAUSE WITH LASER, UNLIKE RADAR, LASER TRAVELS THE SPEED OF LIGHT. >>
    Seesh. Perhaps the orientation for traffic control school could include, oh...maybe 30 seconds of basic physics. Radar waves and laser light beams both travel at the speed of light. :

    The reason your normal radar detector doesn't pick up laser speed measurements is because the frequency of the laser used is outside the EMF spectrum of radar. The reason laser detectors (such as the one in the upscale Valentine V1) aren't as useful as radar detectors is because radar is a more diffuse signal than laser light. The "instant-on" radars are tough to beat too -- but the scatter of the emitted radar waves spills over much as a flashlight does in the fog -- and radar detectors in the vicinity pick up that scattered signal. Laser does not scatter, or at least not nearly as much -- it is a much more confined beam and there is little if any scatter from it. Still...IF you are on your toes -- you CAN beat a laser speed measurement device. Your margin of error is just very small. :-\ :-\

  3. #3
    gail
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    Quote Originally Posted by gail
    You can hear this cop's delight as he shouts in all-caps. Can't wait to run into him on a dark night.

    <<YOUR RADAR DETECTOR WONT TELL YOU I'M THERE BECAUSE WITH LASER, UNLIKE RADAR, LASER TRAVELS THE SPEED OF LIGHT. >>
    Seesh. Perhaps the orientation for traffic control school could include, oh...maybe 30 seconds of basic physics. Radar waves and laser light beams both travel at the speed of light. :

    The reason your normal radar detector doesn't pick up laser speed measurements is because the frequency of the laser used is outside the EMF spectrum of radar. The reason laser detectors (such as the one in the upscale Valentine V1) aren't as useful as radar detectors is because radar is a more diffuse signal than laser light. The "instant-on" radars are tough to beat too -- but the scatter of the emitted radar waves spills over much as a flashlight does in the fog -- and radar detectors in the vicinity pick up that scattered signal. Laser does not scatter, or at least not nearly as much -- it is a much more confined beam and there is little if any scatter from it. Still...IF you are on your toes -- you CAN beat a laser speed measurement device. Your margin of error is just very small. :-\ :-\
    Please share with us how to beat a laser speed measurement device. Even as small a chance as may be is bigger than no chance at all.

  4. #4
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by gail
    Please share with us how to beat a laser speed measurement device. Even as small a chance as may be is bigger than no chance at all.
    The laser speed measurement devices aren't simple "first return" measurement devices -- they employ a *little* filtering so as to average out the indicated speed and reject erratic false returns. But it's not a very long average, and you have to react very quickly. If you're like most people boogeying down the road with the radio on or (gasp) talking on a cell phone you don't have a chance. Also, even if you ARE on your toes but running very much over the limit you don't have enough time to burn off enough speed before the device registers. Think of it as super-fast instant-on radar, only with a longer range because it's more selective in how it can be aimed (i.e., less interference from adjacent landscape).

    Also, you don't have the advantage of any "scatter" of the laser beam, which is what generally is detected by radar detectors. The laser beam is so confined that it just doesn't spread wide enough to get picked up unless you are the target.

    It's a tough rap to evade. Sharp observation of potential ambush points is warranted. All of my traffic tickets were written by enforcement hiding nearly out of sight using strictly visual means to clock my speed, so I know that it is very tough to maintain total situational awareness. :-[

  5. #5
    mrblanche
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    The only thing that seems to have any effect at all (and it's not much) is having your lights on, even in the daytime. This seems to confuse the readout (since it is, after all, light-based). However, as the systems develop, you see less and less of that effect.

    This may be why you rarely see laser at work at night.

  6. #6
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    If I Recall Correctly (IIRC), laser speed measurement systems like highly reflective surfaces on the target, which is why it works so well in states requiring front and rear license plates.

  7. #7
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    If I Recall Correctly (IIRC), laser speed measurement systems like highly reflective surfaces on the target, which is why it works so well in states requiring front and rear license plates.
    Hence the widespread use of light-diffusing, non-reflective "license plate protectors"!

  8. #8
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    Which are now illlegal in the state of NC.
    :-(

    At least we just have a plate on the rear of the car, not the front. That helps quite a bit.

    The town of Cary NC was using LIDAR from a highway bridge a couple of years ago (he would radio the readings to another officer who would actually do the stop) -- the light would reflect off the windshield, which normally would have bounced it back up into the sky (no return to a road-side officer). But to someone elevated, they would get a could return. I'm not sure if the resulting cosine error made them admissable in court, but I suspect the majority of people just paid up.

    Chip H.

    Former owner: 2012 Honda Civic LX, 2006 Honda Ridgeline RTL, 2000 Honda CR-V EX, 2003 MINI Cooper S, 1992 Honda Accord LX, 1999 Mercedes ML-320, 1995 VW Jetta GLX, 1991 Mercury Capri XR2, 1981 Mercury Zephyr, 1975 Chevrolet Impala

  9. #9
    mrblanche
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by chiph
    Which are now illlegal in the state of NC.
    :-(
    As are covers on the rear plate here in Texas. Get caught with one, or tamper with the reflectivity of the plate, and you are subject to fines.

  10. #10
    D_E_Davis
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    Hence the widespread use of light-diffusing, non-reflective "license plate protectors"!
    Which can get you an equipment violation, here and in CA.


  11. #11
    D_E_Davis
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by chiph
    The town of Cary NC was using LIDAR from a highway bridge a couple of years ago (he would radio the readings to another officer who would actually do the stop) -- the light would reflect off the windshield, which normally would have bounced it back up into the sky (no return to a road-side officer). But to someone elevated, they would get a could return. I'm not sure if the resulting cosine error made them admissable in court, but I suspect the majority of people just paid up.
    Arguing about that could open a real bucket of worms, as any measurement made at a pronounced "off" angle would yield readings slower than the actual vehicle speed.


  12. #12
    gail
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    Quote Originally Posted by gail
    Please share with us how to beat a laser speed measurement device. Even as small a chance as may be is bigger than no chance at all.
    The laser speed measurement devices aren't simple "first return" measurement devices -- they employ a *little* filtering so as to average out the indicated speed and reject erratic false returns. But it's not a very long average, and you have to react very quickly. If you're like most people boogeying down the road with the radio on or (gasp) talking on a cell phone you don't have a chance. Also, even if you ARE on your toes but running very much over the limit you don't have enough time to burn off enough speed before the device registers. Think of it as super-fast instant-on radar, only with a longer range because it's more selective in how it can be aimed (i.e., less interference from adjacent landscape).

    Also, you don't have the advantage of any "scatter" of the laser beam, which is what generally is detected by radar detectors. The laser beam is so confined that it just doesn't spread wide enough to get picked up unless you are the target.

    It's a tough rap to evade. Sharp observation of potential ambush points is warranted. All of my traffic tickets were written by enforcement hiding nearly out of sight using strictly visual means to clock my speed, so I know that it is very tough to maintain total situational awareness. :-[
    Up until 9/11 I basically relied on CB chatter, with an undetectable detector for back up and a keen wit about me, but now the airwaves are fairly quiet.

    I am now eye-ing a Valentine One.

  13. #13
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by D_E_Davis
    Arguing about that could open a real bucket of worms, as any measurement made at a pronounced "off" angle would yield readings slower than the actual vehicle speed.
    Yes it would. If the judge has any common sense, he would find you guilty anyway, as the reading would be lower than your actual speed.
    But you might be able to get it thrown out based on the simple fact that it's innacurate.

    Gail?

    Chip H.

    Former owner: 2012 Honda Civic LX, 2006 Honda Ridgeline RTL, 2000 Honda CR-V EX, 2003 MINI Cooper S, 1992 Honda Accord LX, 1999 Mercedes ML-320, 1995 VW Jetta GLX, 1991 Mercury Capri XR2, 1981 Mercury Zephyr, 1975 Chevrolet Impala

  14. #14
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by gail
    I am now eye-ing a Valentine One.
    I have had one for 14 years, and it IS a real piece of equipment. Quality construction -- heavy duty, very well made, and works like a champ. It was sent back to the factory once after the Lidar feature was added to have it upgraded to include that feature. I'm going say that was around 1994 0r 1995, so it was current as of that date. I don't know what kind of improvements have been made since then, but externally the units appear to have remained the same.

    It's been a while since Car & Driver's done a comparison test. There's another detector on the market now that uses GPS technology to map out fixed nuisance microwave sources, such as door openers. My V1 sniffs out every CVS and Walgreen's around without fail, and sometimes it'd be nice to not hear that.

  15. #15
    D_E_Davis
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    My V1 sniffs out every CVS and Walgreen's around without fail, and sometimes it'd be nice to not hear that.
    What is it at those pharmacies to trigger your detector? You'd have a real problem here, as anytime the soil is disturbed a new Walgreen's pops up.


  16. #16
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by D_E_Davis
    What is it at those pharmacies to trigger your detector?
    The door openers operate on the same frequency as the local cop radar. Grocery stores and discount stores do too, but the size of the parking lots out front diminish the magnitude of the signal. My V1 has three sensitivity settings and on the most restrictive (which I use) most door opener-type signals are screened out. The pharamacies are right on corners and set fairly close to the roadways, so they trigger it more often.

    Does Walgreen's have a competitor who "co-locates" around you? Here, CVS and Walgreen's are like twins joined at the hip. If a Walgreen's goes up, you can count on a CVS starting construction immediately across the street. I'm starting to think they have the same location research consultant, who's selling the same info to both chains. :

  17. #17
    D_E_Davis
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    Does Walgreen's have a competitor who "co-locates" around you? Here, CVS and Walgreen's are like twins joined at the hip. If a Walgreen's goes up, you can count on a CVS starting construction immediately across the street. I'm starting to think they have the same location research consultant, who's selling the same info to both chains.
    Nah. CVS is a relative late-comer to our region, although they're building like crazy in an effort to catch up. Osco/SavOn is a competitor but not near as big as Walgreen.


  18. #18
    mrblanche
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    I'm guessing it's actually the door actuator on those stores that is setting off the detector. Or a security system.

  19. #19
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche
    I'm guessing it's actually the door actuator on those stores that is setting off the detector.
    Correct. If you happen to park near the door, the magnitude of the detected signal is quite high. The V1 is nice in that it will tell you if the detected source is behind, beside, or ahead of you and it also gives a relative indication of signal strength. After you use it for a while you can get a real feel for your EMF environment.

  20. #20
    mrblanche
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    Re: Crude Cop Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    Correct. If you happen to park near the door, the magnitude of the detected signal is quite high. The V1 is nice in that it will tell you if the detected source is behind, beside, or ahead of you and it also gives a relative indication of signal strength. After you use it for a while you can get a real feel for your EMF environment.
    And it's a pretty scary environment, isn't it? I mean, imagine all that microwave radiation everywhere around us!

    I am waiting for the class action lawsuit of police officers against the radar manufacturers.

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