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Thread: What's most annoying?

  1. #21
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric


    Imagine a current year econo-box hitting a big wagon from yesteryear at say 35 mph. The heavy steel frame (and heavy gauge body panels) would absorb much of the impact as the econo-box crumpled. Assuming the occupants of the wagon were buckled, they'd probably suffer, at most, a few minor bumps. I doubt very much the occupants of the econo-box would fare as well; the mass/bulk of the big wagon would be as unyielding as an oak tree. The econo-box would crumple up like ab accordion. Yes, the air bags, etc. would prevent much of the forces from reaching the passengers - up to a point.

    I don't argue the improved crashworthiness of modern cars. But the sheer mass/size of those old battlewagons provided a safety cushion, too.
    Nobody will argue about Newton's Laws but this is comparing apples to oranges: old big cars ran into old big cars.

    The lack of seat belts and shoulder harnesses in those things was a failing, too.

  2. #22
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    Mass is no advantage when massive body panels intrude on the passenger space in a collision.

    Just look at pickup truck crash tests from 5-10 years ago.

  3. #23
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterdecibel
    Mass is no advantage when massive body panels intrude on the passenger space in a collision.

    Just look at pickup truck crash tests from 5-10 years ago.
    Pick up trucks are constructed quite differently than station wagons were; for one, they ride considerably higher off the ground - which (a) makes them more likely to rollover and (b) because their frames/chassis were higher off the ground, the "point of impact" when striking (or being struck by) a car is different, which alters the way impact forces spread, etc.

    The massive body panels in an old-school wagon could absorb more force without folding up like, well, tinfoil. I'm old enough to remember seeing accidents between, say, a big Chevy wagon and a compact economy car (don't forget - the Dodge Caravan is based on the K-car). The big sled might have some minor cosmetic damage - probably still driveable. The little box, on the other hand, did not fare so well.

    Yes, I know - the car sacrifices itself for the occupants; it absorbs the impact forces, etc.

    But size/mass still gives you a big advantage.

  4. #24
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    I have to go with Mike on this one, Eric.

    While the steel panels used in the old Ford Country Estates was definitely of heavier gauge, it was bolted onto the frame in comparatively few places, and had none of the crash deformation areas engineered into them. As a result, more of the decelleration was transferred to the occupants, causing greater injury.

    It's the difference between jumping out a 3rd story window and landing on hard concrete (abrupt stop) vs. a foam cushion (smoother, more controlled stop). The technical term for a change in the rate of (de)accelleration is called 'jerk'

    Jerk is the third derivative of position. The first two being velocity and acceleration. You can have a smooth acceleration curve and the human body will cope with that much better (the brain doesn't slosh around as much inside the skull). But a rapid change in accelleration results in more brain slosh, resulting in more trauma.

    http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/jerk.html

    It's interesting reading that the aviation industry has a jerkmeter.
    Probably should use it on Frank Lorenzo.

    Chip H.

    Former owner: 2012 Honda Civic LX, 2006 Honda Ridgeline RTL, 2000 Honda CR-V EX, 2003 MINI Cooper S, 1992 Honda Accord LX, 1999 Mercedes ML-320, 1995 VW Jetta GLX, 1991 Mercury Capri XR2, 1981 Mercury Zephyr, 1975 Chevrolet Impala

  5. #25
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    Mass can only get you so far, no matter what you drive there's always someone else who is bigger. Mass is no substitute for engineering, and the pre-'73 cars were not engineered for collision safety at all.

  6. #26
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    >>I've just stated my opinion that they are dispiriting breedermobiles.<<

    Living in the past will do no good--- Face the facts -- mini-vans are very popular and extremely useful. I drove station wagons before the minivan came on the scene, and I much prefer the minivan! The station wagon was nothing but an uncomfortable car that always gave me back trouble. The minivan has never caused me any back pain--- they sit more comfortable and are far better at hauling big loads.

  7. #27
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Rose
    I qualify for 2 out of the three-- Eric, you obviously have an image problem. Where you born in a mini-van? Did yo mamma embarass you by dropping you off at school with her mini-van?
    I happen to enjoy my mini-van. It hauls a lot of stuff, gets reasonable gas mileage (trip to Columbus,OH 3500 miles round at 24.2MPG) and is easy to enter and exit.
    May the mothers driving 1000 mini-vans hem you in traffic for the next 6 months! ;D
    If you weren't a decent man I have you banned from the internet.

  8. #28
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg

    If you weren't a decent man I have you banned from the internet.
    This from a poor soul who has never seen an engine not described using silly milliliters? That measure is only used fool the unwashed, the number sounds large.


  9. #29
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdm

    This from a poor soul who has never seen an engine not described using silly milliliters? That measure is only used fool the unwashed, the number sounds large.
    From one who drives a vehicle out of the first snow with chains... and would otherwise do nothing better than complain about sensible measurement.

    I have today purchased a few arcane technical books from a vendor in Scotland, in decimal currency.

  10. #30
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    >>If you weren't a decent man I have you banned from the internet.<<

    If I WERE a decent man, I wouldn't even use the internet! :

  11. #31
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    >>I have today purchased a few arcane technical books from a vendor in Scotland, in decimal currency.<<

    Yes-- why is a pound sterling not made up of 16 ounces? What is a quid? A bob? A haypenny? A thrupence bit? Shilling? No wonder you can't figure engine size!

  12. #32
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Rose
    >>I have today purchased a few arcane technical books from a vendor in Scotland, in decimal currency.<<

    Yes-- why is a pound sterling not made up of 16 ounces? What is a quid? A bob? A haypenny? A thrupence bit? Shilling? No wonder you can't figure engine size!
    I don't know what those things are, either... but they do sound better than liters, centimeters and grams!

  13. #33
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    >>but they do sound better than liters, centimeters and grams!<<

    And have nothing to do with that-- They are confusing to pennies nickles dimes and quarters

  14. #34
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Rose
    >>but they do sound better than liters, centimeters and grams!<<

    And have nothing to do with that-- They are confusing to pennies nickles dimes and quarters
    What is a dime? What is a quarter?

    Nickle is an element used in some steel.

    Time we re-occupied the colonies and got some sense back...

  15. #35
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    >>What is a dime? What is a quarter?

    Nickle is an element used in some steel.

    Time we re-occupied the colonies and got some sense back... <<

    You gave it your best shot and got tossed out for having dumb monitary names!



  16. #36
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Rose

    You gave it your best shot and got tossed out for having dumb monitary names!
    Betrayed by French sympathisers...

    I'm surprised you don't call your currency 'francs'.


  17. #37
    mrblanche
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    We gave away our true heritage we called our money the thaler.

  18. #38
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche
    We gave away our true heritage we called our money the thaler.
    And what is a 'thaler?'

  19. #39
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    >>I'm surprised you don't call your currency 'francs'.<<

    It is decimal based, quite unlike Brit stuff.


  20. #40
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    Re: What's most annoying?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche
    We gave away our true heritage we called our money the thaler.
    And what is a 'thaler?'
    It's a drunk Polish whaler, a unit of currency in Estonia from 1929 to 1938.

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