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Thread: LS1 Chev noise cold

  1. #21
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche
    I would be reluctant to generally condemn GM...not that they don't deserve it, but I'm not sure it accomplishes anything.

    I would check on what has changed in the last little while; the odds are good that that is where the problem lies.

    Or I could introduce you to a friend with a Jag V12 that would like to take it out and use it as a boat anchor, just to help you keep your perspective.
    I will curse GM roundly and fully thankyou.
    I have had the car serviced in front of me by dependable careful skilled mechanics. Apart from the exhaust nothing is different. The noise came on gradually over a few days. Sounded like belt tensioner pulleys [replaced by the same guys]

    At least when a Jag breaks you know it's BROKE.

    the GM sounds [cold] like trailing tin cans like the old wedding car jokes, and NOBODY CAN SAY WHAT IT MIGHT BE!!! Until of course they have the car [cold] etc at $60/hr.

    Nothing loose, no misfire, no wobble nor clearly noisy bit, JUST LOUD PINGING like a death rattle , at first it's like the hammers of hell and as it warms up it's a bit more like pre ignition.

    Nobody give me a gun.

  2. #22
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    How come with about 2 million LS1s and similar in the US nobody can say,

    "sounds like water pump" or something?


  3. #23
    MikeHalloran
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    Because they don't break often enough for anyone to accumulate a set of "typical" symptoms.

    My LS1 has about the same number of miles on it as yours, and only the smog pump hidden in a fender has needed service.




  4. #24
    DonTom
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    "HOW CAN IT RUN SO WELL WARM AND YET HAVE SUCH OBSCENE NOISE COLD AND NOT SHOW ANYTHING OBVIOUS HuhHuh"

    Can you be sure this isn't a bad lifter? They sometimes do that until there's enough warm oil on them.

    Is there a change in the sound going down hill cold versus uphill cold? Do you hear the noise at all while at cold fast idle? Does the car have to move before you can hear it?

    -Don-



  5. #25
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    here's a bit of Australian noise info.

    could indeed be lifters after the recent oil change, or terminally misaligned belts [factory GM cure = spray can!]

    http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthre...e+pulley+noise

  6. #26
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeHalloran
    Because they don't break often enough for anyone to accumulate a set of "typical" symptoms.

    My LS1 has about the same number of miles on it as yours, and only the smog pump hidden in a fender has needed service.
    Thanks, I'm thinking lifters after a recent oil change which at 8,000kms/5 months with 10W40 SJ/CD as ever would be OK, and wonder if the new filter recuces delivery pressure or the garage has put some thinner or thicker oil in...
    The pulleys and hardware on the front of the all look and feel good and 'right' running and stationary, inasmuch you can see things ... and Dave the mech had a sthescope out at times and his screwdriver-ear-test all over the place. Nothing of note...

    I'll see how 98 RON octane [well, a bit less being slightly diluted with 95] and fresh battery connection works tomorrow. I can't see how loil/filter can sort of suddenly change the lifters a few days after the refill.. it seriously had no noise cold before except very slight piston slap..

    The link in my previous reply is a good one.
    http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthre...e+pulley+noise

  7. #27
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom
    "HOW CAN IT RUN SO WELL WARM AND YET HAVE SUCH OBSCENE NOISE COLD AND NOT SHOW ANYTHING OBVIOUS HuhHuh"

    Can you be sure this isn't a bad lifter? They sometimes do that until there's enough warm oil on them.

    Is there a change in the sound going down hill cold versus uphill cold? Do you hear the noise at all while at cold fast idle? Does the car have to move before you can hear it?

    -Don
    Noise is worse at fast idle [unbearable] cold. It's the same stationary or moving. There aren't any hills near here with cold-engine distance.

    I'm thinking.
    Lifters because of bad oil or filter
    Water pump
    A/C pump

    most likely the first. Cheap test will be change oil/filter to 10W/40 synthetic or semi-syn.


  8. #28
    DonTom
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    "Noise is worse at fast idle [unbearable] cold. "

    I don't think that could be pinging. Usually pinging is at lower RPM's under heavy load with a hot engine. If it's really loud cold and goes away completely, I would expect a problem with a lifter or two. They can be quite loud when cold and make no noise when warm. In fact, I once had that problem in a GM 350 engine in a 1984 3/4 ton van. I didn't like to start it when cold around people because it really sounded like a piece of junk but ran fine and quiet when it warmed up, which took a few minutes or so for the noise to go away completely.

    -Don-

  9. #29
    mrblanche
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg

    Mike's friend's V12 Jag would be a doddle to fix...
    I'll have him send it to you. The dealership is useless. The car doesn't run half the time. But it looks great, and smells like leather.

  10. #30
    MikeHalloran
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg
    ...with 10W40 SJ/CD....
    I think mine is supposed to get 5W-30, except in the tropics. Check the manual for yours.




  11. #31
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeHalloran
    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg
    ...with 10W40 SJ/CD....
    I think mine is supposed to get 5W-30, except in the tropics. Check the manual for yours.
    The manual [2001] says 5W30 SG or better. Written for American conditions.

    The Aussie dealers say 10W40 or 20W50 [anecdotally from the LS1 forum]. There is no agreement. 5W30 is available in Australasia only in full synthetic, and even then very hard to find. We don't get much below freezing and then only rarely...

    My car has had semi-syn 15W40 SJ [not 10W40 although that's almost academic] for the last two 8,000km changes, don't know what the dealers used to put in from new to 55K miles [records show 6K mile services per book]

    Will talk to mechanic GM engine builder this week. I might try a different oil maybe a lighter synthetic but I suspect the viscosity is not the major issue here in nice 10-20C weather. It dosn't rattle after standing 4 hours and nearly cold... [starts and runs perfectly in open loop] only rattles after overnight.

    The tensioner pulleys and belts seems good. Any idea if LS1 filters need an anti-drainback valve? I read years ago that many filters examined at random had major manufacturing errors in them.

  12. #32
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg
    Written for American conditions.
    How are conditions different? Are we not both in temperate zones?

  13. #33
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    Quote Originally Posted by misterdecibel

    How are conditions different? Are we not both in temperate zones?
    USA gets LOT colder.

    Today the noise was more like the belt and/or pulleys. I put a bit of rubber grease on them and it was even quieter.

    Great cars these LS1 Chevs. How else could a man maintain a neurotic obesession?

  14. #34
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche

    Or I could introduce you to a friend with a Jag V12 that would like to take it out and use it as a boat anchor, just to help you keep your perspective.
    I was sitting outside just now watching the passing parade of late-Spring sunday drivers, lovely cup of tea in the sun, and I noticed with some disquiet that the oil-stains left by my 1973 XJ6 on its usual parking spot on the sidestreet by my home have neary disappeared.

    I sold the car in 2001...

  15. #35
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg
    It dosn't rattle after standing 4 hours and nearly cold... [starts and runs perfectly in open loop] only rattles after overnight.

    The tensioner pulleys and belts seems good. Any idea if LS1 filters need an anti-drainback valve? I read years ago that many filters examined at random had major manufacturing errors in them.
    The filter thing does sound plausible. If there's no non-return valve in the filter the lifters can lose oil & rattle on start-up. However, from what you describe, the rattle is lasting for some considerable time; unless you've got a faulty lifter or two, the rattle should have gone in a few seconds.

    How easy is it to get to the lifters? I had problems with a Ford CVH engine - due, I think, to it having not been regularly serviced, several lifters had gummed up. On that, the rockers were mounted on studs, so to change a lifter it's just a case on unscrewing the nut holding the rocker in place, remove the rocker, pull out the lifter, & reassemble with a new lifter - a few minutes' work. Depending on the design of the lifter, it may be possible to strip & clean them - not possible on my CVH as the end caps were swaged on.

  16. #36
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Brand

    The filter thing does sound plausible. If there's no non-return valve in the filter the lifters can lose oil & rattle on start-up. However, from what you describe, the rattle is lasting for some considerable time; unless you've got a faulty lifter or two, the rattle should have gone in a few seconds.
    Yes I agree it won't be the filter.. it lasts too long [2-3kms driving!] I think sometimes it's a 'chirp' from the pulleys-belts on the front of the engine, but it may be lifters.

    How easy is it to get to the lifters?
    A lot of plumbing and the inlet manifold off, I think.. not practical for me and I'm not pleased about disturbing the factory-build. I'll live with the cold noise if it's modest.

    If indeed it it mostly chirping from serentine-belt-pulley misalignment [who can say while driving?] the fix is to apply grease to the lateral edges of each of the many pulleys in turn to identify which one is out of alignment... as they can become after 6 years 100,000+kms ... and a new belt on old pulleys etc etc.



  17. #37
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    Update;

    About 1,000kms 7-8 cold starts and all appears settled and the engine is as quiet as ever.

    No idea why it is quiet again. Rubber lube on the belt helped but wouldn't cure rattles for hundreds of open road kms. Changing from 95RON to 98 RON fuel ought not cause such a 'cure'. Disconnecting the battery didn't really change any definitively.

    Maybe the belt had to 'settle' on the two new tensioners.

    Maybe the oil was 'odd' for a time allowing lifter rattle.

    Maybe the car had an ECU 'rewrite' at sometime before I bought it [it does make 190-5RWKW where stock is usually nearer 180] and is sensitive. But it used to run well even on 91 RON. It also has cutout at 6,200rpm where many stock LS1s cutout below 6,000.

    Bit of a mystery to me. I'm embarrassed I made such a fuss about a noisy clanking rattling noise which has now [touch wood] gone. The Aussies have a bit of an LS-engine industry and sneer at anything less than about 260RWKW or 400hp at the rear wheels, but they are Australians so can be discounted... they change cams for FUN and called their wife 'The Missus'...
    what can you do with them?

    Can we trust LS engines ever again?


  18. #38
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    "Can we trust LS engines ever again?"

    It's not the engine; it's the blankety-blank computers!

    When something's not right with my ancient Pontiac, finding and fixing it is about as easy as it gets. Only so much that can go wrong with a Rochester Quadrajet and an old-timey distributor sans myriad "sensors"!

    -Chief Plenty Horses

  19. #39
    mrblanche
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    When something's not right with my ancient Pontiac, finding and fixing it is about as easy as it gets. Only so much that can go wrong with a Rochester Quadrajet and an old-timey distributor sans myriad "sensors"!

    -Chief Plenty Horses
    Actually, there are myriad things that can go wrong with a Quadrajet. Depending on the year, it may well have electronic controls, too, but a speck of dirt in any one of 20 separate small passages can kill your engine without you having any warning.

  20. #40
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: LS1 Chev noise cold

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    When something's not right with my ancient Pontiac, finding and fixing it is about as easy as it gets. Only so much that can go wrong with a Rochester Quadrajet and an old-timey distributor sans myriad "sensors"!

    -Chief Plenty Horses
    Actually, there are myriad things that can go wrong with a Quadrajet. Depending on the year, it may well have electronic controls, too, but a speck of dirt in any one of 20 separate small passages can kill your engine without you having any warning.
    Well, I automatically include the electronic Q-Jet with the stuff that should be thrown down the well!

    As for the rest: True, but again, simple to find and fix. A decent backyard mechanic can disassemble,clean and rebuild a Q-jet in an hour or less.

    I know these beasts so well I can almost do it in my sleep! (Even the sometimes tricky move of re-installing the air horn while keeping the power piston/primary metering rods in their bores!)

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