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Thread: WW2 North Africa

  1. #1
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    WW2 North Africa

    In early 1942 there had been no military successful operation against Hitler's Germany.

    In the war with Germany in North Africa, I now hear the voice of a local man who was in the head of advance after Rommel was turned...

    in his music, he chooses in his old age a German song, played beautifully in full German,

    he was in what he termed "just railway company" and after an advance they took a town.
    There were no men left and there were boys aged twelve and less and in his words,
    "There were twenty-two of us," and that night the bombers came over and there "were eight left uninjured"

    his voice doesn't even croak,
    "but there was only eight of us left" and somehow probably by local radio or more likely by prisoner exchange we said "we would kill all the boys."
    This is the way he describes it.

    This was when Rommel thought he had sufficient command of the Med, stalled in Russia, when the US was Coral Sea or Midway, and it hurts me sometimes when people here imply that we are and were 'soft'.

    I don't know why when I thought you should bomb known sites with no regard to children... German Commanders could not count on we doing it, whch shows how strange, when a Maori officer after two years of war executed a German Officer without trial after trial.. was demoted and chucked out...


    he would have good reason, and it was Germans who first invented bombing of innocents [Spain 1936]




  2. #2
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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg
    and it was Germans who first invented bombing of innocents [Spain 1936]
    Setting aside the question of 'innocence,' I think Mussolini was blowing up Africans in Somalia and nearby by areas first.

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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    Ah, yes, and the idea of innocence is difficult...

    Perhaps because "we won the war" the British Empire never did anything bad to innocents... and of course the sun will never set on us neither...

    I have put a ridiculously low bid on the 1994 Daimler-Jag XJ40 4.0 so I might have something appropriate to drive when I am feeling patriotic...

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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg
    er set on us neither...

    I have put a ridiculously low bid on the 1994 Daimler-Jag XJ40 4.0 ...
    Why to the words, 'reckless' and 'masochist' come immediately to mind?

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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by jdm

    Why to the words, 'reckless' and 'masochist' come immediately to mind?
    Not my fault that you shovelled snow in Vermont, or Maine or somewhereas a callow youth, and you bought a Ducati not so long ago and rode it to Long Island, and met Joe Woods who was rather soft... a bit like my father-in-law who had five daughters and dropped dead at 56 years..
    you really must buy an old MX5. Prices are low in your winter.

    The car has Jaguar design and Ford production-quality .. a match made in heaven. Well, so long as the Jag straight 6 remained... and it has an 8Mhz computer. It converts from km/hr to mph at the touch of a button! It has Bosch fuel injection. There are lots of them in wrecker's yards...

    I have to write captions for seven new pics in

    http://mcgavin.no-ip.info/robbie/rob...in_photos.html

    and am unsure if I should just stay basic or go lyrical...

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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg


    and am unsure if I should just stay basic or go lyrical...
    You could mangle quotes from Revelations.

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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    Here is a pic I like best...

    it's 1950s steam...

    details later. The pics may look the same, but they have huge differences...







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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg


    and am unsure if I should just stay basic or go lyrical...
    You could mangle quotes from Revelations.
    Nope. There are others about who do better... I stick to the image of a late train with 200 miles behind and engines picking up water from water-troughs so you coud go from London to the Midlands in three hours in comfort, or six hours to Scotland, everyday work and the faster trains had full restuarant and huge space and had the best engines, the ability to run a train from King's Cross or Euston at average speeds of 60mph for 400 miles with some serious skills needed with the same railways doing everything your current roads do...

    Britain got intercity London-Scotland to under 7 hours in 1895 with the great 'Race to the North' where trains were run at over 60mph averages and had to climb various summits; gentlemen and females wrote music and rode horses or admired these men who built the fastest trans in the world... by the 1950s there were still no alternatives, and these trains had the very finest men building and operating them, even if the Royal Commission has opted to go with diesel [no more cheap coal, mainly] when I grew up these trains were still running,

    even id Dave B says they were uncomfortable dirty and slow

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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    Deja vu all over again, to quote an eminent US philosopher.

    Can you photoshop the engine number? The use of 666 might indicate one thing while 333 would mean it only half bad.

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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    Ah you simple fool you.

    You only such trains with possibly the dirtiest job in the C20th., with the cleaning of the ash and and dropping fires and it was done over pits.
    The youngest got to wipe things, and felt the slow warm vibration off an engine which may have drawn a 'Pullman' into Euston or King's Cross which had been prepared at Glasgow or Edinburgh, twelve minutes late after seven hours plus the train hsad still been running at 90mph at Hadley Wood [or slighty less at Harrow]

    google 'harrow and wealdstone"


    There are no words to describe the heat, the vibraton, the signals, fog, and if in fog the train might stand after a single clean brake application late, the fireman, the driver tired and the engine also... the engine would have pressure left enough to work back light to Willesdon, another turn for the engine, fire not cleaned and put back up for a 'parcels' from 3am to Leeds., it got four days now and it needed a fitter for the tming and the chief fitter found it was loose in the centre cylinder and bad with drivrs worn and 'booked it' for Crewe worhshop, but it was in line, and was put to the side for four days, and came out like new in 1962...
    Then the Gummint decreed that steam was gone, and she was cut up in 1965.


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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg
    ... it needed a fitter for the timing ...
    So Lucas had a hand in locomotives, too?

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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by jdm

    So Lucas had a hand in locomotives, too?
    Some engines had an indicator in the cab but these were unreliable.. "cut-off" was the degree by which steam was admitted to the driving pistons, 80% commonly for starting 15% cruising some engines had steam-chest pressure indicators which were also unreliable..

    An heavy express from Euston for Glasgow might be 15 carriages 500 tons and in foul weather would be down to maybe 20mph on the grade at Shap Summit and iwas the way it pulled or ran, together with signals, the troughs, the hand-fired coal, to make Glasgow on time.. these were not on empty flat lines... goods and coal were big users of lines, and provincial and suburban trains in the way, but they generally made 60mph averages.

    God Save The Queen.


  13. #13
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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    We didn't win the war by being silly...

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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg
    Quote Originally Posted by jdm

    So Lucas had a hand in locomotives, too?
    Some engines had an indicator in the cab but these were unreliable.. "cut-off" was the degree by which steam was admitted to the driving pistons, 80% commonly for starting 15% cruising some engines had steam-chest pressure indicators which were also unreliable..

    God Save The Queen.

    There you are, "unreliable" is the operative word when it comes to trains. And I'm not so sure about the Queen, either.

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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    There you are, "unreliable" is the operative word when it comes to trains. And I'm not so sure about the Queen, either.
    British trains were, um, British trains... until about 1960 they were the main way to go anywhere, unless you were wealthy, and even then, the train was the preferred option for many . 1st class or even 'Pullman' class, intercity travel was the same speed in 1938 as today by air... city centre to city centre.

    Things began to go wrong when common people got cars.

    Can't speak for American trains... they're a strange lot over there...


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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg

    Can't speak for American trains... they're a strange lot over there...

    I can't understand them, either. For example I have never seen any serious writing on railroad economics, is the term an oxymoron? Come to think of it, most domestic air carriers are either coming out of or getting ready to go into bankruptcy.

    Our intercity bus companies have all but died. One would think that the buses, with unlimited route choice, and times en route similar to cars would thrive.

    Perhaps it's because people want to depart at their convenience and have a car at destination.

    Another gripe is that it is not possible to get to any of the NYC airports by a simple train or light rail or metro ride except for Newark and that is from downtown Newark to the airport.





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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg

    Can't speak for American trains... they're a strange lot over there...

    I can't understand them, either. For example I have never seen any serious writing on railroad economics, is the term an oxymoron? Come to think of it, most domestic air carriers are either coming out of or getting ready to go into bankruptcy.

    Our intercity bus companies have all but died.
    That's because cars are cheap. I think that airlines have to use expensive airports and most US domestic flying is unpleasant?

    But RR economics are based on owning the tracks linking high-volume freight or passenger locations, which isn't all that common in the US... except containers from China/CA to all Walmarts, and coal and chemicals. To travel by public transport is in many (most?) US places a sign of being a leper.

    It has to be part of everyday life to be nice, not a visit to a public lavatory in a poor suburb... I understand airline flights are seriously unpleasant these days in sardine-class.

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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    Here is a link to explain poppet valves


    http://www.lner.info/locos/D/d49.shtml


    When I see NASCAR and similar with poppet valves, well, it never took on...
    these engines were 1928-29 and WW2 and no cheap coal nor labour and the rise of the private motorcar meant that they, being light fast engines were scrapped while larger engines took over ever-heavier trains.

    Variable valve timing was from 1830 AD in steam.. in the meantime a Hyundai diesel for sensible people...

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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg

    That's because cars are cheap. I think that airlines have to use expensive airports and most US domestic flying is unpleasant?

    But RR economics are based on owning the tracks linking high-volume freight or passenger locations, which isn't all that common in the US...
    All passenger flying is unpleasant although it is less unpleasant in the front of the airplane. What with mandated early arrival at the airport and the endless security inspections, I'm surprised that the airlines are flying at near capacity. In this part of the US I think that most people use 500~600 miles as the cut-off point for driving or flying.

    I believe that "owning the tracks" was one to the things which got the rail systems into trouble in the first place. Every government entity with taxing power did just that and to the greatest extent possible. Railroad companies did not vote.


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    Re: WW2 North Africa

    Well, 'owning the tracks' was made profiteers and evil capitalists rich...

    People were pouring out of Europe, so there was a never-ending supply of people and bare land...

    and you people cannot orgaise breakfast, in love with some principles which you with some srt of tax revolt enshrined in place of religion... and most strangely, you think you are better than Mao...


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