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Thread: And Here They Come!

  1. #1
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    And Here They Come!


  2. #2
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    Re: And Here They Come!

    Wow, I'd never do that -- sell snake oil, that is.

    Chip H.

    Former owner: 2012 Honda Civic LX, 2006 Honda Ridgeline RTL, 2000 Honda CR-V EX, 2003 MINI Cooper S, 1992 Honda Accord LX, 1999 Mercedes ML-320, 1995 VW Jetta GLX, 1991 Mercury Capri XR2, 1981 Mercury Zephyr, 1975 Chevrolet Impala

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    Re: And Here They Come!

    >>Wow, I'd never do that -- sell snake oil, that is.<<

    I was listening all the way up to the part about the magnetic alignment of the fuel molecules--- Of course turning H2O into water was good also!

    The major ad for this was in Newsweek Magazine-- That had to be expensive to do-- The guy giving the pitch isn't really smooth, either. He stumbles a few times.

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    Re: And Here They Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Rose
    I have yet to play that rubbish but if the idea is to put water vapor in the intake, that will lower hp, not raise it. It probably does nothing good in the fuel economy department, either.

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    Re: And Here They Come!

    It is rubbish.

    People coming this forum generally need to realise that.

    But we have music, women, birds in the trees (here).

    Anyone who spends a few messages here might realise we are quite a fair crowd, and that you ought to 'talk over the bonnet' of a local go-fast crowd.
    We can do cheap 5-seater road sedans, guv'nor, which are under 5 quarter and cruise at 25mpg., but you keep building mobile bricks WHICH USE MORE FUEL.

    Given that you don't want to rule the world, you must realise that you accept drought, famine and pestilence as it comes... and that is the US ethic, is it not?


  6. #6
    D_E_Davis
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    Re: And Here They Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    ...if the idea is to put water vapor in the intake, that will lower hp, not raise it...
    Water injection CAN raise HP - on the R-4360 we gained about 8% with the water turned on - but to get that requires a careful tailoring of the fuel flow to avoid all sorts of problems. Methinks this gadget belongs on the shelf.


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    Re: And Here They Come!

    not in everyday driving

  8. #8
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    Re: And Here They Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg

    We can do cheap 5-seater road sedans, guv'nor, which are under 5 quarter and cruise at 25mpg., but you keep building mobile bricks WHICH USE MORE FUEL.


    Unlike, say, the light, sleek, economical, efficient Jaguar XJ...

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    Re: And Here They Come!

    The LS1 does bewtter but it's not BRITISH.

    So since when was this about logic?

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    Re: And Here They Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by D_E_Davis
    Water injection CAN raise HP - on the R-4360 we gained about 8% with the water turned on - but to get that requires a careful tailoring of the fuel flow to avoid all sorts of problems. Methinks this gadget belongs on the shelf.
    Have you read 'R-4360:Pratt & Whitney's Major Miracle', by Graham White? I haven't read it, but his earlier 'Allied Aircraft Piston Engines of World War II' is excellent. White is an engineer who collects & restores old aero engines, among them an R-4360 &, I believe, a Merlin...nice toys!

  11. #11
    D_E_Davis
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    Re: And Here They Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Brand
    Have you read 'R-4360:Pratt & Whitney's Major Miracle', by Graham White? I haven't read it, but his earlier 'Allied Aircraft Piston Engines of World War II' is excellent. White is an engineer who collects & restores old aero engines, among them an R-4360 &, I believe, a Merlin...nice toys!
    No, I haven't, but I will look him up. Thanks, Dave.


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    Re: And Here They Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by D_E_Davis
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Brand
    Have you read 'R-4360:Pratt & Whitney's Major Miracle', by Graham White? I haven't read it, but his earlier 'Allied Aircraft Piston Engines of World War II' is excellent. White is an engineer who collects & restores old aero engines, among them an R-4360 &, I believe, a Merlin...nice toys!
    No, I haven't, but I will look him up. Thanks, Dave.

    The 4360's on the KC-97 had 7 magnetos and ran 56 spark plugs-- all hooked up to the engineer's oscilloscope.

  13. #13
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    Re: And Here They Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Rose

    The 4360's on the KC-97 had 7 magnetos and ran 56 spark plugs-- all hooked up to the engineer's oscilloscope.
    Sounds more fun than a '73 V12 Jag...!

  14. #14
    D_E_Davis
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    Re: And Here They Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Rose
    The 4360's on the KC-97 had 7 magnetos and ran 56 spark plugs-- all hooked up to the engineer's oscilloscope.
    And the B-36 outfits took all the really good plugs, leaving the dregs to us!


  15. #15

    Re: And Here They Come!

    ok... let's all pitch in and I'll install it on my SRT-4 and we'll do a third party write up.. by their logic, I'll get about 50MPG.

    lol.. I get about 26 if I drive like the car has 10HP.. granted it has well over 300...
    I live in a van... DOWN BY THE RIVER

  16. #16
    MikeHalloran
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    Re: And Here They Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Brand

    Have you read 'R-4360:Pratt & Whitney's Major Miracle', by Graham White? I haven't read it, but his earlier 'Allied Aircraft Piston Engines of World War II' is excellent. White is an engineer who collects & restores old aero engines, among them an R-4360 &, I believe, a Merlin...nice toys!
    Graham White's lecture/ slideshow at the local SoFla ASME meeting a couple of years ago was entertaining enough to run long.

    We closed the restaurant... and left feeling vaguely disappointed.

    He could recite chapter and verse about the specs of an impressive array of aero piston engines, but when questioned about _why_ specific features that he pointed out were present or absent, he asserted that he is _not_ an engineer, and retreated into the dry enthusiast/ semi-technical prose that spaces out the pictures in the (earlier) book, then new.

    Promoting a book must be an exhausting experience.

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    Re: And Here They Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeHalloran
    He could recite chapter and verse about the specs of an impressive array of aero piston engines, but when questioned about _why_ specific features that he pointed out were present or absent, he asserted that he is _not_ an engineer, and retreated into the dry enthusiast/ semi-technical prose that spaces out the pictures in the (earlier) book, then new.

    Promoting a book must be an exhausting experience.
    It's always a bit depressing when you get 'experts'.

    I know an hellava lot about steam RR engineering AND some about Britcars, and with both, you can see the BS artists.
    The guy above sounds like he knows every number and 'fact' but has never quite 'got' the real stuff...

    Which is why last weekend when a coal-fired engine hauled a long train from Masterton over serious grades and then through the Manawatu Gorge in 30C I felt something from my experiences on similar heavier engines on the heavy grades in similar weather.

    We have people here with various USAF things.
    At one point the engine pictured below piled high with coal in the photo just easy, but it had about 150 miles to run and water and the tracks and tunnels have dry grass around, few drivers or firemen left.. who can do this stuff...
    Running an hour late the train ran sweetly over the Manawatu overtaking cars on the adjacent State Highway 1 the complexities are considerable...

    1271 was built in Dunedin around 1954 and was one of 70 engines of the lighter more general-purpose type but with no special care worked 16-car trains at 60mph+ in everyday use the heavier trains took a pair of these engines ... I took my first 8mm film in 1966 showing all this stuff... it has been put on CD now, unedited.

    The best thing was when our engine had the train up to good speed alongside the SH1... on the few places left where local people haven't been able to plant trees







  18. #18
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    Re: And Here They Come!

    The coal in the pic was put in by front-end loader, not shovel, s in the 1960s (hello labourers)

    The fireman was good, but it the same as when Pullman came up to the City running late in swirling fog, nor the drama of a late-running 1958 express whistling for clear signals fully ten miles before the suburban area ahead, the sound of a late train was put out so that strong men trembled and women wept, and I have BBC-standard recordings of this.

    Well, the train above was really good, but my heart lies with labourers AND the driver and fireman which alas cannot be heard unless by personal mail for copyrght reasons... 'Ja' approacihng Paerata with a 'refilef' (extra) 'Limited' express at high speed throttle off and going fast it's the 4th over trains in-a-row overnight, with eight trains crossing in the King Country overnight there were all sorts of delays, and this train was a full hour late, on the double track leaving Hamilton was a fresh engine and the driver usually worked up to Taumaranui he was pleased with the 10-total 'relief' express behind the 'Limited'... worn bearings off-throttle whistles for a 'green' and gets one and whistles again to say "thankyou" and he gives the engine more regulator and pulls the valves with wider timing;
    the fireman even as the whistles were called put a little more fire on , as hopeful as the driver.

    At Papakura there was yellow for the last twenty miles into Auckland, and from five miles away there were suburban passengers on the platform... it was strange.
    This was after 9am. The expresses were gone, and their were 20minute suburban stoppers ... but on this day the late relief whistled long an hard.

    There is no record of the whistle,



    Ah well. The sound is actually boring at first.
    Birds like those outside now in NZ summer evening.






  19. #19
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    Re: And Here They Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeHalloran
    He could recite chapter and verse about the specs of an impressive array of aero piston engines, but when questioned about _why_ specific features that he pointed out were present or absent, he asserted that he is _not_ an engineer, and retreated into the dry enthusiast/ semi-technical prose that spaces out the pictures in the (earlier) book, then new.
    [/quote]

    That's odd - the dust jacket of the book describes him as 'a mechanical engineer by profession'. I find his style quite readable - but then as an enthusiast & an engineer I'm slap-bang in the middle of his target readership.

  20. #20
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    Re: And Here They Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by D_E_Davis
    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    ...if the idea is to put water vapor in the intake, that will lower hp, not raise it...
    Water injection CAN raise HP - on the R-4360 we gained about 8% with the water turned on - but to get that requires a careful tailoring of the fuel flow to avoid all sorts of problems. Methinks this gadget belongs on the shelf.

    I think that several of the round motors had water injection which did raise HP or permit a higher Mp which amounts to the same thing. If the gadget doesw no more than make the intake air more humid, that's a loss but if liquid gets into the combustion chamber the evaporation cools. I think - it's been a long time since what amounted to a couple of hours of lecture on a subject of little interest. There was (?still is) water injection for jet engines, too, but that was only to increase the mass coming out the tail pipe which resulted in greater thrust.


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