Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25

Thread: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

  1. #1
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    Posts
    3,408

    Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:


  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    4,934

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    LOL nice one David!

    I wonder if someone put oil under the GT3. (if it is a GT3)

    Of course rear-engine rear-drive cars are heathen things which contravene physical laws...


  3. #3
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The Land of The Edentulites
    Posts
    22,743

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg
    LOL nice one David!

    I wonder if someone put oil under the GT3. (if it is a GT3)

    Of course rear-engine rear-drive cars are heathen things which contravene physical laws...
    I once owned a few old VWs; those things were amazingly competent in the snow ... having the engine over the rear wheels was surely part of the reason why.

    I still have a soft spot for those old VWS - and am actively looking for a nice '73-'74 Thing, ideally in orange or yellow...

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    4,934

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    I still have a soft spot for those old VWS - and am actively looking for a nice '73-'74 Thing, ideally in orange or yellow...
    I learned about girls in a 1955 white VW ... well, I didn't learn much, it's a learning-curve...

  5. #5
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The Land of The Edentulites
    Posts
    22,743

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    I still have a soft spot for those old VWS - and am actively looking for a nice '73-'74 Thing, ideally in orange or yellow...
    I learned about girls in a 1955 white VW ... well, I didn't learn much, it's a learning-curve...
    Not in winter, I hope?

    Or maybe you were ardent enough to not care about the cold - and the carbon monoxide?

  6. #6
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    Posts
    3,408

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg
    LOL nice one David!

    I wonder if someone put oil under the GT3. (if it is a GT3)

    Of course rear-engine rear-drive cars are heathen things which contravene physical laws...

    Not oil, banana peels.

  7. #7
    Senior Member grouch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,139

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    I once owned a few old VWs; those things were amazingly competent in the snow ... having the engine over the rear wheels was surely part of the reason why.
    I still have a soft spot for those old VWS - and am actively looking for a nice '73-'74 Thing, ideally in orange or yellow...

    I'm in the process os swapping my tube frame dune buggy, that I just can't drive much anymore, for a Porsche 944. It's not the 911 I really want but it has a higher moment of inertia than the 911's and Carrerras. The latest Carrerras are pretty stable but I found out about 1975 about the early 911's and going into a turn hot and letting off the throttle. I didn't dent the car (it wasn't mine but the owners daughter was my navigator) but I had repect for the hotter shoes who could wring top performance out of them. The 944 is a better drivers car anyway. Although given the chance, I'd still snag a 911 because I just like their looks. 8)
    Honk if you love Jesus.

    Text if you want to meet him.

  8. #8
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    Posts
    3,408

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    Quote Originally Posted by grouch
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    I once owned a few old VWs; those things were amazingly competent in the snow ... having the engine over the rear wheels was surely part of the reason why.
    I still have a soft spot for those old VWS - and am actively looking for a nice '73-'74 Thing, ideally in orange or yellow...

    I'm in the process os swapping my tube frame dune buggy, that I just can't drive much anymore, for a Porsche 944. It's not the 911 I really want but it has a higher moment of inertia than the 911's and Carrerras. The latest Carrerras are pretty stable but I found out about 1975 about the early 911's and going into a turn hot and letting off the throttle. I didn't dent the car (it wasn't mine but the owners daughter was my navigator) but I had repect for the hotter shoes who could wring top performance out of them. The 944 is a better drivers car anyway. Although given the chance, I'd still snag a 911 because I just like their looks. 8)
    Uh, that would be lower polar moment of inertia, the mass is closer to the middle.

    944 was a great car. And reliable. My mechanic loves them, says they're easy to work on, everything makes sense. Not that they need it very often. Like the 911, the 944 was very mature technology that had been refined to a tee.

    Oh, and the transaxle uses a VW Beetle aluminum casing, so there's at least one part on that car that dates back to the late 1930s.

    Please say yours is red???

  9. #9
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The Land of The Edentulites
    Posts
    22,743

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    Quote Originally Posted by grouch
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    I once owned a few old VWs; those things were amazingly competent in the snow ... having the engine over the rear wheels was surely part of the reason why.
    I still have a soft spot for those old VWS - and am actively looking for a nice '73-'74 Thing, ideally in orange or yellow...

    I'm in the process os swapping my tube frame dune buggy, that I just can't drive much anymore, for a Porsche 944. It's not the 911 I really want but it has a higher moment of inertia than the 911's and Carrerras. The latest Carrerras are pretty stable but I found out about 1975 about the early 911's and going into a turn hot and letting off the throttle. I didn't dent the car (it wasn't mine but the owners daughter was my navigator) but I had repect for the hotter shoes who could wring top performance out of them. The 944 is a better drivers car anyway. Although given the chance, I'd still snag a 911 because I just like their looks. 8)
    Porsches are superb machines, no doubt. But where once upon a time they delivered true exotic car performance for the money you paid, today the gap is so much less (if it even exists) that the price you pay strikes me as exorbitant - because it's not justified. A new Corvette, for example, is the virtual equal of most of Porsche's current lineup - and brain-smashes anything close to its MSRP. That's the standard car, too. The Z06 makes it even more embarrasing.

    Then there are cars like the Mitsu EVO and Soobie WRX STi. They cost about $30k and with another $10k or so of aftermarket speed parts can be made into ferocious performers.

    True, they don't have the prestige/status of a Porsche - but I'm less interested in that than what I get for my cash in terms of tangible functionality!


  10. #10

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    have you ever seen the top gear video of the evo fq400 vs the Lamborghini (I think murcielago) around the top gear track?
    The evo destroyed it - now thats embarrassing!
    '06 Lotus Elise, '07 Saturn Sky Redline

  11. #11
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The Land of The Edentulites
    Posts
    22,743

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    Quote Originally Posted by damen
    have you ever seen the top gear video of the evo fq400 vs the Lamborghini (I think murcielago) around the top gear track?
    The evo destroyed it - now thats embarrassing!
    Exactly - and that's not a unique example.

    Today's "exotics" are mostly exotically priced; their performance is no longer exponentially better than what you can get in a much less expensive ride...

    Before about 20 years ago, Porsches, Ferraris and so on were truly in a class by themselves - especially as far as handling and high-speed legs went.

    A Corvette of the '60s (and early '70s) may have been strong enough to run with (or beat) these exotics in straight line acceleration - but their handling/braking was not even close to what you'd get in an exotic.

  12. #12
    Senior Member grouch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,139

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    Quote Originally Posted by misterdecibel
    Uh, that would be lower polar moment of inertia, the mass is closer to the middle.

    944 was a great car. And reliable. My mechanic loves them, says they're easy to work on, everything makes sense. Not that they need it very often. Like the 911, the 944 was very mature technology that had been refined to a tee.

    Oh, and the transaxle uses a VW Beetle aluminum casing, so there's at least one part on that car that dates back to the late 1930s.

    Please say yours is red???

    Okay, it's red. Actually it isn't but you asked me to say it. Two colors I never really cared for were blue and white. So of course my main driver and a van I bought to keep from beating the Lincoln up are both blue and the Porsche I'm waiting on is white. White always struck me as a bleak color. Then again, one thing about the 944 is it doesn't scream "sports car" like a 911. From most angles it looks like an older hatch back. As soon as it gets here, (delivery is put off another week now) I'll pull the car partially apart to see what I've got. I do this on everything I get. I also make a few...ahem...minor modifications to them too.

    I had a chance at an automatic but went with a manual. Two reasons, I prefer to shift myself and my niece is GOING to learn to drive a manual. Period. Her mother (my sister) prefers manuals her self. Plus, when all her little friends are learning in mommy's minivan or sedan, my niece will be in a Porsche. I'll be buying her her first car but it won't be this Porsche. That's uncles car. She'll get something more sensible anyway. I wonder what the insurance for a 16 year old would be on a Porsche? ??? My main reasons for this are I want her to be able to drive anything and I want to nip in the bud any cell phone use while driving. That's one of my pet peeves. The car she gets will also have a custom paint job so that if I see her gabbing anyway, she can't say it wasn't her.
    Honk if you love Jesus.

    Text if you want to meet him.

  13. #13

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    on a 944, I think insurance would be cheap
    sure, it's a porsche, but modern honda civics are about as quick
    '06 Lotus Elise, '07 Saturn Sky Redline

  14. #14
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The Land of The Edentulites
    Posts
    22,743

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    " My main reasons for this are I want her to be able to drive anything and I want to nip in the bud any cell phone use while driving. That's one of my pet peeves. "

    Amen. Loud cheers!

    Almost every day I see an oblivious cell phone addled "driver" either blow through a completely red light (or fail to notice a light has turned green), wander into the adjacent lane, almost striking another car (before its driver honks a warning).. and so on.

    I have ranted before at length on this subject - and likely will again!

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,071

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    Quote Originally Posted by misterdecibel
    Uh, that would be lower polar moment of inertia, the mass is closer to the middle.
    Maybe not as low as it could be? The rear-mounted transaxle must increase polar moment of inertia; on the other hand, it places the centre of inertia nearer mid-wheelbase.

  16. #16
    Senior Member grouch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,139

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    " My main reasons for this are I want her to be able to drive anything and I want to nip in the bud any cell phone use while driving. That's one of my pet peeves. "

    Amen. Loud cheers!

    Almost every day I see an oblivious cell phone addled "driver" either blow through a completely red light (or fail to notice a light has turned green), wander into the adjacent lane, almost striking another car (before its driver honks a warning).. and so on.

    I have ranted before at length on this subject - and likely will again!

    About a year ago, I was coming home from Kentucky and as I crossed the river, I was on an off ramp. A grey car running at dusk on a cloudy day with no lights came from the left lane and cut in front of me. I might not be the hot shoe I used to be but I manage to not stuff that large grill guard into her trunk. As the driver was going along the ramp, she was weaving to both sides of the lane and running on both shoulders. Now, I've drifted before but those rumble strips have got my attention quick. When we got onto the bypass around town, she was weaving through both lanes and onto the shoulders both on the side and center median. Naturally, I called the central dispatch about her. I followed the girl for a ways and when I saw a unit car coming up behind, I told the dispatcher I would get in the left lane so they could see the drivers antics for themselves. While over there, I noticed that the driver was a young girl (late teens) who was yakking on her cell phone, putting on make up and eating while driving. How did she keep it on thje road? Just barely. When the unit car caught up with her, I dropped back to give them room and she kept going for a good 1/4 mile. I asked one of the officers who I knew later on what he did and he said they wrote ticket after ticket. It seems she had a suspended license for reckless driving already. A little bit of jail time I think on that one.
    Honk if you love Jesus.

    Text if you want to meet him.

  17. #17
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The Land of The Edentulites
    Posts
    22,743

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    Quote Originally Posted by grouch
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    " My main reasons for this are I want her to be able to drive anything and I want to nip in the bud any cell phone use while driving. That's one of my pet peeves. "

    Amen. Loud cheers!

    Almost every day I see an oblivious cell phone addled "driver" either blow through a completely red light (or fail to notice a light has turned green), wander into the adjacent lane, almost striking another car (before its driver honks a warning).. and so on.

    I have ranted before at length on this subject - and likely will again!

    About a year ago, I was coming home from Kentucky and as I crossed the river, I was on an off ramp. A grey car running at dusk on a cloudy day with no lights came from the left lane and cut in front of me. I might not be the hot shoe I used to be but I manage to not stuff that large grill guard into her trunk. As the driver was going along the ramp, she was weaving to both sides of the lane and running on both shoulders. Now, I've drifted before but those rumble strips have got my attention quick. When we got onto the bypass around town, she was weaving through both lanes and onto the shoulders both on the side and center median. Naturally, I called the central dispatch about her. I followed the girl for a ways and when I saw a unit car coming up behind, I told the dispatcher I would get in the left lane so they could see the drivers antics for themselves. While over there, I noticed that the driver was a young girl (late teens) who was yakking on her cell phone, putting on make up and eating while driving. How did she keep it on thje road? Just barely. When the unit car caught up with her, I dropped back to give them room and she kept going for a good 1/4 mile. I asked one of the officers who I knew later on what he did and he said they wrote ticket after ticket. It seems she had a suspended license for reckless driving already. A little bit of jail time I think on that one.
    Gawd...

    People like this drive me batshit.

    If I could have one Big Wish granted it would be that the "entitlement mentality" we have in this country toward driving - and the system that is so oriented to accommodate the least competent, least capable drivers - disappear forever. In their place, drivers who respect the art of driving - and a system that demands (and enforces) competence behind the wheel.

    For one thing, that means strict and severe enforcement actions against genuinely dangerous/inept driving - vs. the current cynical obsession with enforcing what amount to "technical foul" statutes - such as simple speeding* - that often have little, if anything to do with the safe/competent operation of a motor vehicle.

    * "Speeding" in this country often means nothing more than driving with the flow of traffic at 5-10 mph above an under-posted limit, deliberately under-posted for the purpose of maximizing "revenue" via trumped-up traffic tickets.

  18. #18
    Administrator Ken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Lincolnshire, United Kingdom.
    Posts
    3,421

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Brand
    Quote Originally Posted by misterdecibel
    Uh, that would be lower polar moment of inertia, the mass is closer to the middle.
    Maybe not as low as it could be? The rear-mounted transaxle must increase polar moment of inertia; on the other hand, it places the centre of inertia nearer mid-wheelbase.
    if my distant memories are correct a front engined rear wheel drive car has a High PMoI and a mid-engined car has a low PMoI. If the Centre of Intertia is the point at which the sum of all moments of inertia is zero, then in theory, given the appropriate dimensions and masses a car with a high PMoI and a car with a low PMoI could have an identical Centre of Inertia. They would, however, have very different handling characteristics.

    Ken.
    Die dulci fruimini!
    Ken.
    Wolds Bikers, Lincolnshire, England.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    4,934

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken
    if my distant memories are correct a front engined rear wheel drive car has a High PMoI and a mid-engined car has a low PMoI. If the Centre of Intertia is the point at which the sum of all moments of inertia is zero, then in theory, given the appropriate dimensions and masses a car with a high PMoI and a car with a low PMoI could have an identical Centre of Inertia. They would, however, have very different handling characteristics.

    Ken.
    I think it's such a complex thing that nobody knows quite how make cars handle except perhaps the Pope...

    even if you have 50-50 weight distribution you have different effects in acc/brake and caster vamber toe etc and center of gravity and the difference between c of g and roll-centre vertical axis and other stuff which I too forget, except to say that the best handling 1960s saloon car in my experience was the Series 1 Jaguar XJ6 which didn't use theory as much as a lot of guesswork and testing and 'if it feels right it probably is right'

    The steering was way too light , in order to to sell in the US market... Lexus do the same today...

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Raleigh NC, USA
    Posts
    3,628

    Re: Rear Engine/Rear Drive vs. Mid Engine/All Wheel Drive:

    What I noticed in the animated GIF was that the Audi wasn't going as fast as the Porsche, and that the Porsche didn't make any attempt to correct his slide.

    The bananas ejected by the Audi didn't help any, either.


    Chip H.

    Former owner: 2012 Honda Civic LX, 2006 Honda Ridgeline RTL, 2000 Honda CR-V EX, 2003 MINI Cooper S, 1992 Honda Accord LX, 1999 Mercedes ML-320, 1995 VW Jetta GLX, 1991 Mercury Capri XR2, 1981 Mercury Zephyr, 1975 Chevrolet Impala

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-18-2010, 08:15 PM
  2. Rear drive, front drive or all-wheel-drive?
    By Eric in forum Advice/Questions/Tips
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 03-02-2009, 08:30 AM
  3. 2009 Lexus LS sedan will offer all wheel drive
    By Eric in forum Automotive News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-29-2008, 09:44 AM
  4. Replies: 24
    Last Post: 04-28-2008, 09:35 AM
  5. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-18-2008, 01:36 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •