Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33

Thread: $15,000 new Escalades?

  1. #1
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The Land of The Edentulites
    Posts
    22,972

    $15,000 new Escalades?

    Maybe by the summer....

    It takes $40 to fill-up my compact Nissan Frontier (4-cylinder engine); twice that to feed a hog like the Escalade and its equivalents, including more plebian models like the Tahoe.

    For people who burn up a tank per week- which is a lot of us - that's almost $400/month. Nearly $5,000 annually. Just for gas. At current prices. Imagine what happens at $5 or $6 per - which at the current rate of increase we'll see within two years.

    Who the hell can afford that?

    If you hate big SUVs, be happy. They are doomed.

    And soon, they'll be available real cheap, too.

  2. #2
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    Posts
    3,408

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    Escalade owners can always sell more crack.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,783

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    Personally I would pay $10 a gallon and still drive my V8 powered SUV. The only thing I would change is I would drive a lot less to save money. In other words if I normally drive 15,000 miles a year, I would drop my yearly mileage down to 5,000 miles a year. Small cars are deathtraps.

  4. #4
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The Land of The Edentulites
    Posts
    22,972

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    Personally I would pay $10 a gallon and still drive my V8 powered SUV. The only thing I would change is I would drive a lot less to save money. In other words if I normally drive 15,000 miles a year, I would drop my yearly mileage down to 5,000 miles a year. Small cars are deathtraps.
    I think guys like us are fairly lucky in that we can "afford" to do that; but I'm guessing there are millions of people who simply can't deal with the prospect of $100 fill-ups each week - and thus, large SUVs (and similar vehicles) are going to plummet in value and be very hard to sell. This happened before, in the mid-1970s, to the muscle cars and big boats of the '60s and early '70s. Circa 1975, you could hardly give away something like a 426 Hemi 'Cuda or big block Chevelle. People wanted (well, needed) smaller, more economical cars due to the gas price hikes, etc.

    It's happening again - but it's worse this time because the dollar's becoming a Third World currency and our overall economy is in serious trouble.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,783

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    Eric,

    I would not say I can "afford" the luxury. High gas prices are hitting me hard, I will just decrease my driving. For instance when someone calls me about going to an event across town and its a 40 mile round trip, I now will take a pass. And if prices get real bad, I'll stop eating out and cut my consumer spending to nothing. In talking to cops in the past and seeing the aftermath of very horrific accidents on the road, small cars are deathtraps. Ever notice after car accidents that most of the people injured are in small cars? The folks in big cars/SUVs are standing on the side of the road with no injuries next to the wreckage. Imagine a head on collision between a (2,700 lb) Honda Civic and a (7,200 lbs) Chevy Suburban - guess who will be walking away and who probably won't? To me my health and safety take priority.

  6. #6
    Staff
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,126

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    Personally I would pay $10 a gallon and still drive my V8 powered SUV. The only thing I would change is I would drive a lot less to save money. In other words if I normally drive 15,000 miles a year, I would drop my yearly mileage down to 5,000 miles a year. Small cars are deathtraps.
    I think guys like us are fairly lucky in that we can "afford" to do that; but I'm guessing there are millions of people who simply can't deal with the prospect of $100 fill-ups each week - and thus, large SUVs (and similar vehicles) are going to plummet in value and be very hard to sell. This happened before, in the mid-1970s, to the muscle cars and big boats of the '60s and early '70s. Circa 1975, you could hardly give away something like a 426 Hemi 'Cuda or big block Chevelle. People wanted (well, needed) smaller, more economical cars due to the gas price hikes, etc.

    It's happening again - but it's worse this time because the dollar's becoming a Third World currency and our overall economy is in serious trouble.
    You hit that right.Since the dollar has experienced depreciation similar to Mexico's peso devaluation 14 years ago, we have seen prices shoot up. I can afford gas up to about $4.50 per gallon. We're getting close to the breaking point.

    There is no way in hell I would ever (or ever have) drive something like an Escalade.

    Many years ago, back in 1987, I think, I was over at a buddys apartment. A friend of his came over and idled his 6 cylinder Blazer for like 15 minutes. (I thought cars like that ate too much gas). I told my buddy sarcastically, "I don't want to got to war so that this guy can idle that gas guzzling pig for a half hour."

    While I have no specific problem with people being able to drive what they want, how they want, etc, and am completely against safety and CAFE regs, I still think that cars like that are wasteful and ostentatious, although more wasteful at this point.

    Because of high fuel prices, this issue iwill sort out itself somehow, although, given the basket case economy, I'm not sure how and how fast.

  7. #7
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The Land of The Edentulites
    Posts
    22,972

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    Eric,

    I would not say I can "afford" the luxury. High gas prices are hitting me hard, I will just decrease my driving. For instance when someone calls me about going to an event across town and its a 40 mile round trip, I now will take a pass. And if prices get real bad, I'll stop eating out and cut my consumer spending to nothing. In talking to cops in the past and seeing the aftermath of very horrific accidents on the road, small cars are deathtraps. Ever notice after car accidents that most of the people injured are in small cars? The folks in big cars/SUVs are standing on the side of the road with no injuries next to the wreckage. Imagine a head on collision between a (2,700 lb) Honda Civic and a (7,200 lbs) Chevy Suburban - guess who will be walking away and who probably won't? To me my health and safety take priority.
    I hear you; but let me rephrase:

    For people who drive such vehicles as their primary vehicle, every day, at some point the cost of operating the thing becomes not just uncomfortable but unsustainable. I absolutely agree with you on the safety advantages of larger, heavier vehicles. But I think many people are simply going to be forced by the economics of it to put their safety at greater risk because they cannot fund $400 monthly gas bills, etc.


  8. #8
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The Land of The Edentulites
    Posts
    22,972

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    "Because of high fuel prices, this issue iwill sort out itself somehow, although, given the basket case economy, I'm not sure how and how fast."

    I wonder what will happen to all the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of large SUVs and trucks purchased over the last couple of years (and still in the pipeline)?

    Imagine having bought one circa 2005 - when gas was still pretty cheap. You still owe big time on the thing - but its value has plummetted (and will likely plummet further as gas prices continue to uptick) so you can't trade it or sell it without taking a huge bath.... .

    It's another bubble waiting to burst, just like the housing thing...

  9. #9
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    Posts
    3,408

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    Eric,

    I would not say I can "afford" the luxury. High gas prices are hitting me hard, I will just decrease my driving. For instance when someone calls me about going to an event across town and its a 40 mile round trip, I now will take a pass. And if prices get real bad, I'll stop eating out and cut my consumer spending to nothing. In talking to cops in the past and seeing the aftermath of very horrific accidents on the road, small cars are deathtraps. Ever notice after car accidents that most of the people injured are in small cars? The folks in big cars/SUVs are standing on the side of the road with no injuries next to the wreckage. Imagine a head on collision between a (2,700 lb) Honda Civic and a (7,200 lbs) Chevy Suburban - guess who will be walking away and who probably won't? To me my health and safety take priority.
    Who do you think will fare better in that head-on collision with a Suburban -- a new Civic, or a 72 Olds Custom Cruiser?



    If you voted for the Olds, you're wrong.



  10. #10
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The Land of The Edentulites
    Posts
    22,972

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterdecibel
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    Eric,

    I would not say I can "afford" the luxury. High gas prices are hitting me hard, I will just decrease my driving. For instance when someone calls me about going to an event across town and its a 40 mile round trip, I now will take a pass. And if prices get real bad, I'll stop eating out and cut my consumer spending to nothing. In talking to cops in the past and seeing the aftermath of very horrific accidents on the road, small cars are deathtraps. Ever notice after car accidents that most of the people injured are in small cars? The folks in big cars/SUVs are standing on the side of the road with no injuries next to the wreckage. Imagine a head on collision between a (2,700 lb) Honda Civic and a (7,200 lbs) Chevy Suburban - guess who will be walking away and who probably won't? To me my health and safety take priority.
    Who do you think will fare better in that head-on collision with a Suburban -- a new Civic, or a 72 Olds Custom Cruiser?



    If you voted for the Olds, you're wrong.
    Is that an opinion - or has the actual comparison test been done?

    A Civic is certainly fairly safe - for a small car. But in a head-on collision with a Suburban, it would get creamed. Now, the 72 Olds Custom Cruiser is built a lot like the Suburban. Boxed steel frame; bolt-on body. Lots of metal and mass. Mass comparable, in fact, to the Suburban. And (in terms of the physics of it) this is an advantage (for the occupants of the Olds) relative to occupants of the Civic, because they Civic is dealing with a vehicle 3 times its size/mass.

    Yes, the so-called "crumple zones" and active/passive features such as air bags render a vehicle (any vehicle) safer. However, these things don't negate the inherent advantage that size/mass confers. Especially when we're dealing with a big disparity (compact car vs. full-size car).

    There is a reason why, all else being equal, larger/heavier vehicles usually do better in crash testing (and accidents) than smaller ones. You can certainly improve the crashworthiness of a small car - but it starts off at a big disadvabtage relative to a bigger/heavier car.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Raleigh NC, USA
    Posts
    3,628

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    I agree with Eric -- for someone who depends on their vehicle in order to earn a living, if gas prices keep rising, sooner or later the owner will have to make budget reallocations. Do we put gas in the car so I can continue working, or do we not go to the movies any more this year, and start shopping at the Goodwill charity shop?

    Multiply that by a large number of people, and you'll see a resulting swing in the economy -- more will be spent on energy (and not because people want to) and less on other sectors, like entertainment, food, and housing.

    Chip H.


    Former owner: 2012 Honda Civic LX, 2006 Honda Ridgeline RTL, 2000 Honda CR-V EX, 2003 MINI Cooper S, 1992 Honda Accord LX, 1999 Mercedes ML-320, 1995 VW Jetta GLX, 1991 Mercury Capri XR2, 1981 Mercury Zephyr, 1975 Chevrolet Impala

  12. #12
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    Posts
    3,408

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    Quote Originally Posted by misterdecibel
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    Eric,

    I would not say I can "afford" the luxury. High gas prices are hitting me hard, I will just decrease my driving. For instance when someone calls me about going to an event across town and its a 40 mile round trip, I now will take a pass. And if prices get real bad, I'll stop eating out and cut my consumer spending to nothing. In talking to cops in the past and seeing the aftermath of very horrific accidents on the road, small cars are deathtraps. Ever notice after car accidents that most of the people injured are in small cars? The folks in big cars/SUVs are standing on the side of the road with no injuries next to the wreckage. Imagine a head on collision between a (2,700 lb) Honda Civic and a (7,200 lbs) Chevy Suburban - guess who will be walking away and who probably won't? To me my health and safety take priority.
    Who do you think will fare better in that head-on collision with a Suburban -- a new Civic, or a 72 Olds Custom Cruiser?



    If you voted for the Olds, you're wrong.
    Is that an opinion - or has the actual comparison test been done?

    A Civic is certainly fairly safe - for a small car. But in a head-on collision with a Suburban, it would get creamed. Now, the 72 Olds Custom Cruiser is built a lot like the Suburban. Boxed steel frame; bolt-on body. Lots of metal and mass. Mass comparable, in fact, to the Suburban. And (in terms of the physics of it) this is an advantage (for the occupants of the Olds) relative to occupants of the Civic, because they Civic is dealing with a vehicle 3 times its size/mass.

    Yes, the so-called "crumple zones" and active/passive features such as air bags render a vehicle (any vehicle) safer. However, these things don't negate the inherent advantage that size/mass confers. Especially when we're dealing with a big disparity (compact car vs. full-size car).

    There is a reason why, all else being equal, larger/heavier vehicles usually do better in crash testing (and accidents) than smaller ones. You can certainly improve the crashworthiness of a small car - but it starts off at a big disadvabtage relative to a bigger/heavier car.
    My point is that all things are not equal. Remember the films of trucks in gov't crash tests from just a decade ago? Crumple zones and passenger cages matter, a lot. A body-on-frame car with no modern crash engineering folds in very disadvantageous ways in a collision. And since body-on-frame cars have been a vanishing breed since the 1970s, long before structural improvements for crash safety were mandated, I think it's safe to say that ANY new monocoque will be safer than ANY '70s body-on-frame car. Body-on-frame will do a nice job of protecting the drivetrain, though, making them good for Demolition Derby.

    And no matter what you drive, there's something bigger out there. And not all hazards are moving. A fixed object, such as a bridge abuttment, will demolish a Civic, a Suburban, a Hummer, or a semi truck, and in a collision with a fixed object mass is not your friend. The more mass you carry into that kind of collision, the more energy is dissipated.

  13. #13
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The Land of The Edentulites
    Posts
    22,972

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    "I think it's safe to say that ANY new monocoque will be safer than ANY '70s body-on-frame car."

    I think that would be easily disproved - and would even put money on it. Maybe I'm wrong - but, again, I'd absolutely bet you that (for example) something like a 1976 Oldsmobile 98 would be more crasworthy in your original example than a new Honda Civic. Crumple zones are not cure-alls and don't obviate the advantages of mass/size.They certainly help - but they don't make a small car as safe (let alone safer) than a full-size car. Why do you suppose the Crown Vic is one of the safest cars you can buy? (It is much more crashworthy than a Civic - even though both have air bags and "crumple zones.")

    "And no matter what you drive, there's something bigger out there."

    True, but only as far as it goes. If I drive a large, full-frame vehicle (for example, a new Crown Vic) my vehicle is larger than most other vehicles on the road - and that certainly improves my odds, does it not? If I'm in an accident, it's more likely I'll be in an accident involving a smaller car. Which is an advantage for me - and a disadvantage for the person driving the smaller car!


  14. #14
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    Posts
    3,408

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    How about just not having accidents then?

    I really think that "safety" is just an excuse used by people who just subjectively prefer large vehicles. Do you really live in such fear that you'll let this be the one overriding factor in your choice of vehicle? Slagging off small cars as "death traps" is ignorant fear mongering.

    H2 vs Semi, Semi wins. Maybe you should buy one of those Semi-based International pickups then.

  15. #15
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The Land of The Edentulites
    Posts
    22,972

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    "How about just not having accidents then?"

    Always a good idea! ;D

    "I really think that "safety" is just an excuse used by people who just subjectively prefer large vehicles."

    Well, I can't speak for others, but in my case, I like big cars because I'm big myself. I am 6 ft 3 and my long legs/upper body fit better in a larger car - esp. if I ever have to ride in the back. I also like the feel big cars tend to have. And of course, big cars are more likely to be RWD - and to offer a V-8 engine - preferable (in my book) to FWD and 4-cylinders...

    "Do you really live in such fear that you'll let this be the one overriding factor in your choice of vehicle?"

    No, of course not. I own a compact Nissan pick-up - which isn't as safe as the full-size Titan but I don't need such a large gas pig and the little Frontier does what I need it to do. But I still like big trucks!

    " Slagging off small cars as "death traps" is ignorant fear mongering."

    Did I say that? I was merely taking issue with you on the claim that a compact car is as safe a a full-size car, etc.

    "H2 vs Semi, Semi wins."

    True. But H2 vs. Civic, who wins then?


  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,783

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterdecibel

    Who do you think will fare better in that head-on collision with a Suburban -- a new Civic, or a 72 Olds Custom Cruiser?

    If you voted for the Olds, you're wrong.
    I'd still take the Olds it weighs at close to 5,000 lbs. With Newtons law the innertia of the Old's 5,000 lbs hitting the Suburbans 7,200 lbs would be a much better matchup than the Civic's 2,700 lbs..

    And another thing to consider in an accident is that the Olds will not burn your face up like the Civic which has an airbag in an accident. Airbags use gun power to open up the bag. Guess where the hot residue goes when it deploys? All over the driver's face.

    As for avoiding accidents, that is ideal. However there are so many crazy drivers out there talking on their cell phones and doing every other thing while they are driving. Heck last week a guy came over in my lane and almost side swiped me, because he was too busy picking his nose. The best defense is defensive driving and a bigger car, truck, or SUV.


    Eric,

    I agree at some point prices get so high, you get forced down to a smaller car. For me I will avoid going to a smaller vehicle as long as I can. I prefer the midsize - 4,000 to 5,200 lbs SUVs. These give you plenty of metal and yet their still easy to manuever in tight parking lots.


  17. #17
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    Posts
    3,408

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric


    True. But H2 vs. Civic, who wins then?

    I see a lot more semis than H2s...

  18. #18
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    Posts
    3,408

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete


    And another thing to consider in an accident is that the Olds will not burn your face up like the Civic which has an airbag in an accident. Airbags use gun power to open up the bag. Guess where the hot residue goes when it deploys? All over the driver's face.
    I'd rather recover from gun powder to the face than to be crushed by the folding structure of a body-on-frame car as the firewall collapses and the engine is thrust into the passenger compartment.

  19. #19
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The Land of The Edentulites
    Posts
    22,972

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterdecibel
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric


    True. But H2 vs. Civic, who wins then?

    I see a lot more semis than H2s...
    But an H2 is just a large SUV; the cosmetics aren't the issue - the size/mass is. And I see a lot of large SUVs on the road everywhere I go.

    Don't you?

  20. #20
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The Land of The Edentulites
    Posts
    22,972

    Re: $15,000 new Escalades?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterdecibel
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete


    And another thing to consider in an accident is that the Olds will not burn your face up like the Civic which has an airbag in an accident. Airbags use gun power to open up the bag. Guess where the hot residue goes when it deploys? All over the driver's face.
    I'd rather recover from gun powder to the face than to be crushed by the folding structure of a body-on-frame car as the firewall collapses and the engine is thrust into the passenger compartment.
    In 1987, I lost control of my 1978 Camaro (this car has a bolt one front subframe just like a truck) at appx. 60 mph. The car hit a telephone pole sideways (passenger side, dead center) with great violence. I walked away from that wreck with a few cuts and bruises and a single cracked rib.

    That's it.

    How do you suppose I'd have fared in a unibody subcompact like the Civic?

    You keep dodging the central point Pete and I have made - viz, cars can be (and have been) rendered more crashworthy via "crumple zones" and safety devices such as air bags - but these design features/equipment do not obviate the inherent advantages conferred by size/mass. I challenged, specifically, your earlier assertion that "any" modern unibody is safer than "any" old full-frame car, irrespective of size. I argued that's going a bit too far - and that I don't believe for a minute that, for example, a modern Civic would hold up in a crash with a Suburban as well as a full-frame, full-size car from the mid-late 1970s. I told you I'd even put money on it.

    Still want to bet? ;D






Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •