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Thread: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

  1. #1
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
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    Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    This month's Car & Driver has a comparison test between the Dodge Charger and the Pontiac G8.

    Pontiac won by a mile.

    And these cars share platforms with the upcoming pony cars.

  2. #2
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterdecibel
    This month's Car & Driver has a comparison test between the Dodge Charger and the Pontiac G8.

    Pontiac won by a mile.

    And these cars share platforms with the upcoming pony cars.
    In every way, perhaps - except for the most important one: style.

    The G8, though not ugly, is just another sedan and fairly forgettable looking. But the Challenger is a visual tour de force (like it or hate it) that looks like nothing else on the road.

    It's also a coupe - which makes the comparison pretty ridiculous anyhow.

  3. #3

    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    why is that?
    generally coupes are heavier than sedans, so I would think that would be towards the chargers favor
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    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    Quote Originally Posted by damen
    why is that?
    generally coupes are heavier than sedans, so I would think that would be towards the chargers favor
    I didn't read the comparo - but maybe they were stacking up a base (5.7 liter) Challenger against the G8 - which would give the hp advantage to the G8. I know the SRT-8 has much more power than the G8 - and should be able to bitch slap it across the road!

  5. #5

    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    they did the R/T vs the g8 GT
    of course the SRT-8 would kill the G8 GT, but if you're going to compare with the SRT-8 you need to compare it against the GXP - where I expect the G8 would win again (and the reviewer agrees)
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    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    It's not a fair test Car and Driver even admitted it. They compared a new 361 horsepower G8 to a 340 horsepower 2008 Charger R/T. The G8 has a slight weight advantage (it's lighter) and it has 21 more horsepower. For 2009 the 5.7 liter Hemi gets bumped up to 375 horsepower so the Charger R/T will have more horses under the hood than the G8 V8. It will either be draw next time around or the Charger R/T will have a slight advantage.

    As for the G8 GXP vs. the Charger SRT8, I'll have to wait until they test the G8 GXP, the SRT8 is underrated at 425 horsepower (it's actually more), when a 4,200 lbs car does the 1/4 mile in 13.0 - 13.3 seconds 425 horsepower is a little on the low side.

    Here's the Car and Driver G8 V8 vs. 2008 Charger R/T (click on the G8 test under features):

    http://www.caranddriver.com/

  7. #7
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
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    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    It's not a fair test Car and Driver even admitted it. They compared a new 361 horsepower G8 to a 340 horsepower 2008 Charger R/T. The G8 has a slight weight advantage (it's lighter) and it has 21 more horsepower. For 2009 the 5.7 liter Hemi gets bumped up to 375 horsepower so the Charger R/T will have more horses under the hood than the G8 V8. It will either be draw next time around or the Charger R/T will have a slight advantage.

    As for the G8 GXP vs. the Charger SRT8, I'll have to wait until they test the G8 GXP, the SRT8 is underrated at 425 horsepower (it's actually more), when a 4,200 lbs car does the 1/4 mile in 13.0 - 13.3 seconds 425 horsepower is a little on the low side.

    Here's the Car and Driver G8 V8 vs. 2008 Charger R/T (click on the G8 test under features):

    http://www.caranddriver.com/
    The test results weren't based just on accelleration.

  8. #8
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
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    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    Quote Originally Posted by misterdecibel
    This month's Car & Driver has a comparison test between the Dodge Charger and the Pontiac G8.

    Pontiac won by a mile.

    And these cars share platforms with the upcoming pony cars.
    In every way, perhaps - except for the most important one: style.

    The G8, though not ugly, is just another sedan and fairly forgettable looking. But the Challenger is a visual tour de force (like it or hate it) that looks like nothing else on the road.

    It's also a coupe - which makes the comparison pretty ridiculous anyhow.
    The Charger is a coupe???

    The C&D test, as stated above, was CHARGER vs. G8. Two 4 door sedans. That happen to share platforms and technology with the upcoming pony cars.

    Turning the Charger vs. G8 comparo into a preview of Challenger vs. Camaro was MY interpretation, not C&D's.

    In real-world driving, the Camaro is going to trounce the Challenger, because the MOPAR has an ancient, overweight platform. MOPAR can throw horsepower at it all day, but it's still a 4100 pound behemoth.

  9. #9
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    "The Charger is a coupe???"

    No, of course not - but the point of the exercise was to evaluate how the pending Charger-based Challenger coupe might perform relative to the pending Camaro. Right?

    "Turning the Charger vs. G8 comparo into a preview of Challenger vs. Camaro was MY interpretation, not C&D's."

    Ah - ok. As I said, I did not read the article.

    "In real-world driving, the Camaro is going to trounce the Challenger, because the MOPAR has an ancient, overweight platform. MOPAR can throw horsepower at it all day, but it's still a 4100 pound behemoth."

    Maybe. Maybe not. There's no way to know before the actual cars are available for testing. I agree with Pete that the Challenger SRT-8 is under-rated. I have driven several Chrysler performance vehicles with essentially the same "425" hp version of the Hemi - and it feels a lot stronger than that. If you look at the 0-60 times and 1/4 mile performance of models such as the Grand Cherokee SRT-8 and so on you'll see what I mean.

    Also, the Camaro is no lightweight, either. I doubt the finished car will be significantly lighter than the Challenger. Both will probably be in the 3,400-3,600 lb. range. The Challenger won't weigh 500-plus pounds more, at any rate.

    I'm not cheerleading for either car - but you seem to have a real bias against anything Chrysler.



  10. #10
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
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    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric


    Also, the Camaro is no lightweight, either. I doubt the finished car will be significantly lighter than the Challenger. Both will probably be in the 3,400-3,600 lb. range. The Challenger won't weigh 500-plus pounds more, at any rate.

    I'm not cheerleading for either car - but you seem to have a real bias against anything Chrysler.


    The Challenger is 4100 pounds. Camaro will be ~3600 for V6, dunno how much more for the Z28.

    And yes I do have an anti-MOPAR bias, I admit it freely. They have always been 3rd-best of the big 3, for a reason.

  11. #11
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    "The Challenger is 4100 pounds. Camaro will be ~3600 for V6, dunno how much more for the Z28."

    Comparing the curb weight of the V-8 Challenger with the V-6 Camaro is "apples and oranges." The Z28 will weigh at least a few hundred pounds more due to the V-8 alone. The actual weight difference between the two will thus be much closer. And the higher output of the Challenger's V-8 may just negate the weight advantage (if any) that Camaro has.

    "And yes I do have an anti-MOPAR bias, I admit it freely. They have always been 3rd-best of the big 3, for a reason."

    Glad you're honest about that!

    It's all a matter of opinion, though. For style and presence, the E-Body Mopars are arguably better than the GM F-cars or Ford pony cars. Ditto sheer butality - in 440 and 426 Hemi form.

    The GM F-cars were better "all arounders" - maybe the Mustang, too.

    But I am a fan of them all - and though I don't think either the nee Camaro or the new Challenger will last more than three years on the market, I am looking forward to driving both!

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    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    I think the new G8 V8 is one great all around package. I am a Pontiac fan but in recent years have really come to love the new rwd Hemi Mopars. But I'll have to drive a new G8 first before I say I perfer it over a 5.7 liter Hemi Charger. The G8 GXP looks like it will be one great performer, look forward to driving one in the future.

    I would guess as Eric mentioned the V8 powered Camaro will have a base weight of around 3,800 lbs.

    I do admire and am a fan of the old Mopar muscle cars however in the old Mopar '70 - '74 E-body vs. the GM 2nd generation F-body battle. The GM F-body was by far a better looking car and an all out better package especially the Firebird/Trans Am. The Mopars overall had a beloated look, the E-body looked like a 2+2 on steroids. The styling looks good but not as good as the 2nd generation GM f-bodys (that's my opinion).

    You decide...

    A 1970 Challenger:



    A 1970 Trans Am:







  13. #13
    Administrator Ken's Avatar
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    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    I think the new G8 V8 is one great all around package. I am a Pontiac fan but in recent years have really come to love the new rwd Hemi Mopars. But I'll have to drive a new G8 first before I say I perfer it over a 5.7 liter Hemi Charger. The G8 GXP looks like it will be one great performer, look forward to driving one in the future.

    I would guess as Eric mentioned the V8 powered Camaro will have a base weight of around 3,800 lbs.

    I do admire and am a fan of the old Mopar muscle cars however in the old Mopar '70 - '74 E-body vs. the GM 2nd generation F-body battle. The GM F-body was by far a better looking car and an all out better package especially the Firebird/Trans Am. The Mopars overall had a beloated look, the E-body looked like a 2+2 on steroids. The styling looks good but not as good as the 2nd generation GM f-bodys (that's my opinion).

    You decide...

    A 1970 Challenger:



    A 1970 Trans Am:



    The trans-Am gets my money - it looks the part, 'Look at me, I'm a brute of a car - If you want to drive me you'd better be all man!' The Challenger, by contrast looks a bit on the weak side, not much different from the old British 3ltr Capri. Yup!, looks are important.

    Ken.
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  14. #14
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    I have a '70s era Trans-Am ...and I love the thing. But I also really like the E-Body Mopar (especially the 'Cuda) and would be hard pressed to choose between the two, all else being equal.... (I have a "history" with my current car; so ain't never gonna sell her!)

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    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
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    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    The Camaro/Firebird were MUCH better cars on the road than the Cuda/Challenger, with their arthritic torsion bar front suspension and high center of gravity. MOPAR was for drag racers only, the GM cars could handle, by '70s standards.

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    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterdecibel
    The Camaro/Firebird were MUCH better cars on the road than the Cuda/Challenger, with their arthritic torsion bar front suspension and high center of gravity. MOPAR was for drag racers only, the GM cars could handle, by '70s standards.
    This is true.

    The Firebirds were also noticeably better than the Camaro - which is interesting given how close these cars are in their basic layout. The 'Bird was tuned for more "give" (and a softer ride) yet had little body roll and was a formidable performer by the standards of the day. Even by modern standards, the car feels pretty good.

  17. #17
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
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    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    Since I'm not a journalist I can afford to be biased. But in my view MOPAR has never had anything to offer except cheap horsepower and outlandish styling.

  18. #18
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterdecibel
    Since I'm not a journalist I can afford to be biased. But in my view MOPAR has never had anything to offer except cheap horsepower and outlandish styling.
    Well, yeah - that's 3/4ths of the point when it comes to a muscle car, isn't it?

    Big power (dangerous power) and raucous looks/attitude. The E-bodies have both in abundance!

    Remember: Muscle cars are not finesse cars or sports cars or sophisticated cars; they are supposed to not handle well or stop precisely. They are all about lumpy cams, loud exhaust and burnouts... about being noisy and obnoxious.

    This is why, incidentally, the new Challenger and Camaro aren't really muscle cars, either! ;D

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    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterdecibel
    Since I'm not a journalist I can afford to be biased. But in my view MOPAR has never had anything to offer except cheap horsepower and outlandish styling.
    This is true, looks are subject. There are some who like the looks of the old Mopar Muscle Cars and others that do not. For me growing up I only liked the looks of the "1966 - 1970" (1st and 2nd generation) Chargers. In the last 10 years I must say the looks of the other Mopar muscle cars have really grown on me.

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    Re: Preview of Challenger vs. Camaro?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken

    The trans-Am gets my money - it looks the part, 'Look at me, I'm a brute of a car - If you want to drive me you'd better be all man!' The Challenger, by contrast looks a bit on the weak side, not much different from the old British 3ltr Capri. Yup!, looks are important.

    Ken.
    I agree it's got the complete look. Ever see the 1973 John Wayne movie - McQ? The Duke drove a 1973 Brewster Green T/A in the movie. When Burt Reynolds jumped a 1977 Trans Am over a ramp it was cool when the Duke boys from Hazzard jumped a 1969 Charger over a ramp it was not cool it came off pretty campy. The Trans Am was one mean looking car thats looks were very artful yet 100% Macho. No offense to the gals, but these cars were driven and owned by men.

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