The Truth About New Technology X

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We reached the point of diminishing returns as regards vehicle emissions technology, probably 20 years ago. Maybe even 30. There was a huge reduction in smog-forming compounds as a result of widespread adoption of catalytic converters (mid 1970s) and then fuel injection (mid-1980s). Since then, further reductions have been incremental and lately, infinitesimal.

Most people do not understand this.

For instance, when it is announced that New Technology X will “cut tailpipe emissions by 10 percent,” which sounds very impressive, the truth is usually less spectacular. They invariably neglect to mention that new cars are already 97 percent “clean” at the tailpipe – and have been, for years. That is, only about 3 percent of the exhaust output of a late-model car is other than water vapor and C02 – neither of which have any bearing on smog formation or air pollution.

Hence, New Technology X will actually (if the claim is taken at face value) reduce that remaining 3 percent of “bad stuff” by 10 percent. And 10 percent of 3 percent is a great deal less than the implied 10 percent of 100 percent. In fact, it is a fractional reduction. Almost unmeasurable – and more to the point, negligible as regards the vehicle’s “impact” on air quality. Put another way, the difference in emissions output between say a 2000 model year car and a 2012 model year car is on the order of 1 percent or less.

And these literally fractional improvements often come at great cost relative to what’s gained – exactly the opposite of the first-generation emissions controls, which made huge strides without adding massively to the cost of the car. A simple catalytic converter, for example, massively alters the quality of the exhaust output, curbing the harmful emissions by double digits – for about $200-$400 or so. A simple throttle body fuel-injection system achieves a similar reduction relative to a carburetor – and (again) without adding a massive expense to the car. Adding an overdrive gear to the transmission dramatically cuts fuel consumption – which also lowers total exhaust emissions simply as a result of burning less fuel.

All of these things have been in widespread use  since the mid-1980s. This is the period when the major gains, in terms of reducing vehicle emissions, were achieved. Put another way, the basic problem has been solved for more than 20 years. Cars have been “clean” for decades.

So why do we – why do they – continue to tilt at windmills? Why continue to invest huge sums – and impose huge costs – for ever-diminishing returns? Mostly, it’s because of the lingering perception that cars are still “dirty” – which they aren’t. This, in turn, provides the rationale for increasingly unreasonable federal regulations – regulations that demand fractional reductions of the remaining fraction of vehicle exhaust that’s not clean. That previously mentioned 3 percent.

Whatever the cost. To be paid by you.

A better (because more cost-effective) solution would be to mass-market relatively simple, much-lighter-than-current-average vehicles equipped with updated versions of something like Honda’s old CVCC engine of the mid-1970s fed by a throttle body injector (TBI) teamed up with a modern six speed overdrive transmission or CVT. Such a vehicle, weighing about 1,800 lbs., let’s say, would not need more than about 100 hp (probably less)  to be powerful enough for most A to B driving, would be capable of 60-plus MPG, and – critically – would burn probably 40 percent less fuel than the typical current 270 hp V-6 (and 3,400-plus pound) sedan or crossover – which mostly never sees the high side of 80 MPH anyhow and thus is as pointless as giving a eunuch Viagra.

If such vehicles became mass-market vehicles, the result would be a massive reduction in emissions output (and fuel wastage) without the need to pursue ever-more-elaborate, ever-more-expensive technological solutions in the quest for diminishing returns, tailpipe emissions-wise. Such a machine would not need gas direct injection, or variable cam/valve timing, or multiple sequential turbochargers – just a sampling of the technology the car industry is currently deploying in order to “save fuel” and “lower exhaust emissions” in cars that are morbidly obese and thus require bigger, more consumptive engines that burn more fuel – and produce more total emissions.

The best part is that this approach does not require mandates on new cars – or restrictions on old cars. In fact, getting rid of the mandates currently in force would make it possible to build sensible cars again. The watermelons (because green on the outside but red on the inside) say they want to see low-polluting, high-mileage cars. Well, why not build them? We have – have had – the technology for decades. It would be so easy. A car like the 2012 VW Jetta diesel gets 42 MPG. It also weighs more than 4,200 lbs. Imagine the mileage this car could deliver if it weighed 3,000 lbs. – and instead of a 2.0 liter engine, had a 1.5 liter engine.Let’s say 60 MPG – a fuel consumption reduction of about 40 percent. Just by dintof burning 40 percent less fuel, our hypothetical Jetta would also produce a great deal less in the way of total emissions, since the total volume of fuel used (and emissions produced as a result of burning that fuel) would be 40 percent less. No additional technology – or expense – required.

This is where the big gains are to be made – by lightening and deregulating cars, not by straining to eke out a less than 1 percent “improvement” in the exhaust stream of morbidly obese, over-regulated, over-teched cars.

The first step is getting people to understand they’ve been conned. The next step will take care of itself.

Throw it in the Woods? 

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eric

Author of "Automotive Atrocities" and "Road Hogs" (MBI). Currently living amongst the Edentulites in rural SW Virginia. 

  138 comments for “The Truth About New Technology X

  1. Eric_G
    May 16, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    You are absolutely correct. A small car will run great with a small engine. However, we’re all super-sized. I know there’s a lot of us who would find it impossible to fit in a 1970s-era Honda (I include myself in that group, BTW). My work truck, a 2011 F-150, has almost all plastic body panels, 2 overdrive gears, and free-wheels any time you let up on the gas, manages about 20MPG, but I’m sure that’s about all it will do without shutting down the engine on the fly.

    I spend a lot of time over at the TDI club forums (http://forums.tdiclub.com/), and a lot of the old-timers fondly talk about their diesel Rabbits that got 60-70MPG. That’s nearly 1000 miles on a 13 gallon tank! Not to mention they run just fine on B100 (100% biodiesel), unlike my A3 that can only run on B10 or less.

    • Brad Smith
      May 16, 2012 at 7:35 pm

      Bringing the old Rabbits back would be cool as long as they improve the wiring harness and other electrical problems. I’m also not sure that it should come with AC.

      • eightsouthman
        May 17, 2012 at 1:06 pm

        Brad, you’d be absolutely certain about the a/c if you lived in Texas.

    • Jeremy
      May 20, 2012 at 11:28 am

      You should see what we’re dealing with on HD diesel engines. I work for a Cat dealer in the truck engine shop. We went from mechanical fuel systems that got 6 or 7 mpg to extremely complex “green” engines that get 4 or 5 mpg. They break down constantly and are mandated to shut down if any of the emissions systems are in trouble. They are them coming in on tow trucks daily. All this to remove some particulate matter, sulfur, and trace amounts of NO2. Not to mention the cost, trucks cost more than twice what they did when the engines were using mechanical fuel pumps with no aftertreatment of the exhaust.

  2. geoih
    May 16, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    It’s the poison of the demand for ‘continuous improvement’. At some point the technology is as good as it is going to be, ever. Then you need to accept that further improvements do not outweigh the costs, or you need different technology.

    Bureaucracies do not care about costs, because they do not require profits, nor do they create anything new.

    • will potter
      May 16, 2012 at 6:53 pm

      “the poison of the demand for continuous improvement”

      I love that, once I graduated from college and began working as an engineer I worked for an incredibly smart old timer and one of the 2 most memorable lines/saying he passed on was the “engineering triangle” (good, fast and cheap-can only be two) and the difference between a scientist and an engineer
      scientists search for truth but an engineer searches for “good-enough.”
      i remember the pzev hondas from almost 10 year ago, they were such low emission vehicles, if you drove them in places like LA the exhaust coming out was cleaner than the air going into the air box.
      when will emissions be good enough so we can move onto more important/interesting things?

  3. GW
    May 16, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    “…as pointless as giving a eunuch Viagra”
    I am so stealing that line…it has to be the “Response of the Century” especially when discussing politics with anyone supporting the ideologically lobotomized positions of either of the 2 major parties

    • May 16, 2012 at 6:50 pm

      My pleasure!

      • Larry Stone
        May 17, 2012 at 7:36 pm

        It made me laugh. I’m putting that ditty into my list of memorable quotes. Also – I really liked the picture of the fat car at the top of this article. Thanks Eric, not only for a well written article, but also for the good laughs.

        • May 17, 2012 at 9:18 pm

          My pleasure, Larry – welcome to our little corner of the ‘net!

  4. Tinsley Grey Sammons
    May 16, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    “The first step is getting people to understand they’ve been conned. The next step will take care of itself.”

    Indeed they have and indeed it will, Eric. Indeed it will.

    tgssam

    • liberranter
      May 17, 2012 at 8:38 pm

      Unfortunately, I’ve come to the conclusion that most of the sheeple LIKE to be conned. Recognition of rality, however simple and beneficial that reality, causes them to shift fundamental assumptions upon which they’ve based their entire belief system. Better to hide one’s head in the sand and cling to comfortable myths.

      • liberranter
        May 17, 2012 at 8:39 pm

        Sorry, make that “recognition of reality.” Fat fingers today!

      • Tinsley Grey Sammons
        May 18, 2012 at 1:21 am

        Sad isn’t it,when it’s so very easy to admit to error and just move on.

      • Tinsley Grey Sammons
        May 23, 2012 at 7:46 pm

        Hide your head in the sand and someone will surely kick your upturned ass. –Tinsley Grey Sammons (1936 –)

  5. Tinsley Grey Sammons
    May 16, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    WEIGHT AND AERODYNAMICS
    The focus ought now to be on weight reduction. Materials that work well in modern aircraft ought to work as well or better in automobiles.

    Aerodynamically cars are doing rather well. That’s why some have begun to look so much alike. Less weight and clean aerodynamics make it possible to get by with smaller fuel tanks providing an additional weight reduction.

    SPACE AND COMFORT
    Observant individuals already know what is necessary to make a person fairly comfortable for three hours. By that time someone in the car will want to stop to pee.

    Are we there yet? . . . Are we there yet? . . . Are we there yet? . . .

    tgsam

  6. Tinsley Grey Sammons
    May 16, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    WEIGHT REDUCTION, VIBRATION AND COST

    The Wankel offers much more than Snob Appeal. Eric, without alienating any of your $ponsor$, I’d be interesting in what you have to say about the Wankel versus Reciprocating. Haven’t most of the disadvantages inherent in the old carburetted Wankels been eliminated?

    The Wankel versus Reciprocating issue probably merits an editorial by that name. Seems t’me that an engine having an internal mass that simply rotates is preferable to one that has major internal parts that literally stop and reverse direction a few thousand times a minute.

    Well, admittedly the Wankel does have Exotic Appeal.

    tgsam

    • Mithrandir
      May 16, 2012 at 4:10 pm

      The Wankel, IIRC, uses more oil and is not as fuel efficient as some other engines.

      I do not know if these issues were corrected or improved.

      I do like the hum of an RX-7 engine when it is revved up. :)

      • May 16, 2012 at 4:47 pm

        The best thing about the RX-7 engine is you can rev it to infinity with the proper fuel delivery system.

        Even Nigel could only turn his amp up to 11.

    • May 16, 2012 at 6:47 pm

      No worries about $ponsors$ – we don’t have any of those – and if we did, it would not prevent me from erupting. I’m not interested in shilling for anyone – and luckily, I can (sort of) afford to do whatever/say whatever.

      The Wankel engine is appealing. Like a two-stroke, it’s compact and simple and produces a lot of power for its size. The only reason they haven’t been more widely used is…. drum roll…. emissssssions. Sealing issues over time, in particular. Supposedly, ceramic-tipped rotors fixed this, but other than the RX-8, I don’t think anyone is using them or has plans to…

      • Tinsley Grey Sammons
        May 16, 2012 at 7:51 pm

        Doesn’t Ford Motor Co. own a chunk of Toyo Kogyo (Eastern Industries)?

        Perhaps licensing for the Wankel is too costly.

        I don’t see a viable adiabatic engine during my lifetime either.

        tgsam

      • JdL
        May 17, 2012 at 2:14 pm

        My understanding is that the biggest problem with rotary engines is surface area to volume ratio, which negatively affects emissions as well as fuel economy. A cylinder is hard to beat, as its surface area to volume ratio is near that of a sphere, the ideal, so there’s less wasted heat to carry away.

        The sealing problem is also non-trivial and closely related. Making a sharp 90 degree turn with a seal is much harder to engineer than those nice rings in cylinder engines.

        • Tinsley Grey Sammons
          May 18, 2012 at 1:32 am

          BINGO! JdL. And that surface area is prone to warp badly if the engine overheats.

          The Wankel has its weaknesses but I will always be fascinated by it. In my opinion, nobody else ever made a quantum leap in gasoline engine design to match that made by Felix Wankel.

          • May 18, 2012 at 9:42 am

            I forgot to mention the other small problem with Wankels: Fuel consumption. They are thirsty! In the CAFE climate, that alone would make using this engine difficult.

    • Bob Robertson
      May 17, 2012 at 2:03 pm

      My personal opinion as a long time investigator into the Wankel, after driving an RX-3 way back when too, is that it’s a matter of application.

      A single-rotor Walkel wedded to an electrical generator for a hybrid car would be very effective. The engine could be tuned to a specific RPM rather than a range, matching emissions control, and all the benefits of knowing exactly how fast the engine will spin at all times.

      But also, such a really small Wankel could easily be fitted to a truly light-weight car to make an efficient commuter car. The problem is that truly light-weight cars won’t pass the legally mandated crash tests &etc., which is the point of this article in the first place.

  7. Blake
    May 16, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    CAFE is not going away. I’m in speaker development at a major OE, and have been asked for weeks about “saving” 25 grams per 6×9 speaker (for double the cost and no improvement in sound).

    The weight police are all over everybody. It’s like Jenny Craig is our CEO.

    Needless to say, cars are going to get so expensive I should probably look for a different line of work. Perhaps trains or tractors?

    It would be nice if the rulers knew a damn thing about science or engineering (and political science is not science). Do they not understand that everything is a compromise?

    They do understand this – and they don’t care. Extremely expensive cars will only be available to the rich (or politically connected, or do I repeat myself).

    This is the goal – not fuel economy.

    It would be nice if management at ANY of the OEMs would grow a pair and tell these government regulatory dipshits go fuck themselves.

    You don’t like it – don’t buy our cars. Seems easy to me.

    Great article.

    • BrentP
      May 16, 2012 at 5:04 pm

      I have stated it many times over the years CAFE is about eliminating vehicle choice and the furthering of CAFE and other regulation is to make the car back into a rich man’s toy.

      Once they get a stranglehold on new cars to the point where rebuilding old cars for daily use becomes a popular business expect the clamps to come down hard on existing cars or at the very least the repair there of.

      Those with power are not satisfied with their wealth, they are not satisfied with the power they have. It is not enough for them to have power and wealth, everyone else must have nothing. Sick people run this world and the majority has no clue and even actively supports it.

      I think we’ve probably already past the point that evading the CAFE fines with technology costs more than just paying them as a tax on a new car purchase.

      First non luxury/exotic* automaker to figure that out will undercut the competition.

      *BMW and others already do this.

      • Blake
        May 16, 2012 at 8:29 pm

        Brent:

        Are you referring to the “gas guzzler tax?”

        I would pay it. At least our cars would be fun.

        I would also pay all of our lawmakers the same salary to just stop doing anything. The last thing we need is another law.

        • BrentP
          May 16, 2012 at 9:51 pm

          The gas guzzler tax is a tax on particular models that fall below certain mpg thresholds. CAFE is an average of all vehicles sold by a manufacturer. There are fines for not achieving CAFE. That’s all that happens if they don’t meet CAFE numbers. As I understand it, there is also a lot of smoke in mirrors in the calculation of that average. Much as the states had in showing the 55mph NMSL was being obeyed so they could get federal highway money.

          The question is, what costs more, complying or the penalties? Do the big automakers even ask that question?

    • May 16, 2012 at 6:42 pm

      Thanks, Blake –

      And I feel your pain. I know others “on the inside” and they tell a similar tale… you have my sympathy. I could never work “inside” – and I’ve only seen glimpses of it…

      • Blake
        May 16, 2012 at 8:53 pm

        I’ve gotten in trouble for voicing my opinion about politics “on the inside” quite a few times. I let is slip out every time I read something about awards for C02 emissions reductions, diversity awards, CAFE requirements, celebrating kowtowing to our masters in DC, and all the other “team building” BS.

        My boss has repeatedly told me not to bring up politics, since it’s not work related.

        It is work related when you need to fly to a supplier and be exposed to your choice of radiation, or a man (who’s not your doctor) feeling up your private parts.

        It is work related when you need to increase the cost of your parts by 100% with zero benefit to your customers.

        It is work related when most aspects of your job is dictated by some imbecile in DC.

        And I work in speakers. I thought I’d escaped when I made it out of safety electronics.

        Don’t know how much longer I’ll be there. I’m a contract engineer, and the vast majority of people, including upper brass, believe good times are here to stay.

        I say “People can afford our cars now – and seem to be buying a lot of them lately – but wait until interest rates go up” and people look at me like I’m from Mars.

        • Tinsley Grey Sammons
          May 16, 2012 at 9:36 pm

          Politics is definitely “work related”. Furthermore, nothing is more important to Americans today than knowing the WHOLE truth. In the entire history of our country it has simply never been more important.

          tgsam

        • dom
          May 16, 2012 at 11:49 pm

          While I don’t get in any trouble for voicing my opinions at work, I just get written off as stupid. A lot of people I talk to tell me all the new ideas/laws sound good and will help with safety and less lawsuits… Okay, I say.

  8. May 16, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    If the “car czar” position ever becomes an elected office, you have my vote.

    • May 16, 2012 at 6:40 pm

      The problem, of course, is that guys like me aren’t interested in telling anyone else what to do at gunpoint!

      • Bob Robertson
        May 17, 2012 at 2:11 pm

        That’s just because you’re a radical, wild-eyed, Utopian libertarian who thinks that people can live together in peace without having the overwhelming violence of the state hanging over your every move.

        At least my motorcycle gets just a bit more of a “pass” on things like emissions, so far.

  9. John G.
    May 16, 2012 at 7:21 pm

    Great column, eric.

    I look forward to the coming fall of Leviathan — it will inevitably fall once its tax intake plummets or sees greatly reduced purchasing power — and the great surge of ingenuity and creativity that will ensue once the bureaucrats have gone home due to not being paid, or being paid a mere pittance due to rabid inflation.

  10. Brad Smith
    May 16, 2012 at 7:42 pm

    When I was a kid my grandfather used to tell me stories about the first time he ever saw a car. He said it came driving past his house and he could smell it for half an hour. Now you can just about stick your nose in a tail pipe and not notice it. I thought that it was simply the fact that we are used to it. But I don’t think so. I spent a month in an area where there we was nothing mechanical at all. I got back and still didn’t notice the smell of my car. Sure you notice the smell of some cars, but not most of them.

    • dom
      May 16, 2012 at 8:48 pm

      This is a far stretch, but I once heard that the interior of the car gives off more HC than the exhaust.

    • Tinsley Grey Sammons
      May 16, 2012 at 10:02 pm

      When Kathy and I returned a month after Katrina to see if anything in our home in St. Bernard Parish was worth saving, New Orleans was like a Ghost City. In almost no passenger car traffic we traveled I-10 across the city and it was downright surreal. We were reminded of the Twilight Zone episode where Earl Holliman was dead and alone and did not yet realize it.

      But the air was incredibly clear

      Unbelievably so.

      Perhaps more clear than it had been since the first settlers arrived and built fires.

      But there was the stench of ruin emanating from the toxic muck that has even covered the floors inside the homes with a foot of stuff so foul that it was foolish not to breathe thru a filter.

      Even the insects were gone.

      • Tor Munkov
        May 16, 2012 at 10:45 pm

        Abandoned Six Flags over New World Order Orleans

        A declaration of independence, an emancipation of slaves, a liberation of women, & a revolution of sexualty are all ongoing battles that must be fought by each generation or else lost forever.

      • Brad Smith
        May 17, 2012 at 2:34 am

        That must have been surreal.

        It’s funny how cities all have thier own smells. I think I could be blindfolded and taken back to any of the cities I have lived in and I would know them by smell. It must have felt very odd coming back to a city that was so changed.

        • Tinsley Grey Sammons
          May 17, 2012 at 11:02 am

          Yes Brad, It was. However, we now have a much better life in less densely populated Ascension Parish*. Other than the ruin of certain irreplaceable keepsakes, we have no regrets.

          Historically, I don’t believe Ascension Parish has a history of being riddled with corruption as does St. Bernard Parish. As an habitual dissident I do not feel the apprehension here in Ascension Parish that I felt while living in St. Bernard Parish.

          tgsam

          *Louisiana calls their Counties “Parishes”. So far no one has objected on separation of church and state grounds. Not even me, and I dislike organized religion intensely.

          tgsam

          In Jakarta Indonesia (Google: Jakarta Globe)the Islamic Defenders Front caused the Lady GaGa concert to be cancelled on the grounds that it is a “dangerous” influence on Indonesias youth.

          • May 17, 2012 at 11:09 am

            What riddles me with despair is that the doings of Lady Gaga, et al, constitute “news” at all.

            Once again, I feel the passage of time… it was not all that long ago, it seems, that material relating to fuuuuhhhhhhhtball and the antics of celebrities was handled elsewhere. The news was about, well, news. It was a manlier time.

            Not that I am a big fan of Walter Cronkite, but try to imagine him (or his colleagues) “reporting” about Lady Gaga…

            When I was a kid in the ’70s, most middle and upper middle class adults were not jocksniffers or celebrity-addled.

            It’s funny, isn’t it, that a nation of fuhhhhhhhttttttttttttball worshippers can’t bear the idea of risk off the field.

          • Tinsley Grey Sammons
            May 17, 2012 at 11:15 am

            Jakarta Globe “Letters”

            bastlaw
            10:43pm May 16, 2012

            The Islamic Defender Front is a greater danger to Indonesian Youth than the Lady Gaga Concert could ever be.

            How long is it going to take the People of the world to embrace and defend the Natural Rights of the Individual Human Being?

            Muslim Fanatics are an even greater danger to Mankind than Christian Fanatics.

            Hopefully America’s Unanimous Declaration will someday serve as a model for limiting government power the world over. America included!

            Tinsley Grey Sammons

            Gonzales, Louisiana

          • May 17, 2012 at 11:19 am

            Many people don’t know that Hitler was a great admirer of the Grand Mufti of Palestine (and of Islam, generally – which he considered completely compatible with national socialism).

          • Bob Robertson
            May 17, 2012 at 2:14 pm

            Bread and circuses, and a standing army.

          • Al Sledge
            May 17, 2012 at 3:07 pm

            “Muslim Fanatics are an even greater danger to Mankind than Christian Fanatics” I dunno about that as we have huge nunbers of Christian Fanatics HERE now. The Muslim fanatics did not seem to exist until the Soviets went away and we started killing the relatives of Muslims in the 1990s in huge numbers. You kill my kids, parents, siblings, and destroy my home, property, and business and I might get a little pissy myself. I would get labeled as a Agnostic Fanatic maybe?

          • May 17, 2012 at 5:07 pm

            What a wierd board. Maybe it’s a glitch! Going from small cars and carburetors, to Lady Caca, then flooded New Orleans stench, then Hitler? Lol.

          • May 17, 2012 at 5:08 pm

            LOL Hitler was awesome, and liked small cars. Some people credit him with the birth of the Volkswagen Beetle for his support of Porsche and VW.

          • May 17, 2012 at 9:21 pm

            Hitler actually favored big cars – for himself. For the masses, he favored a Volks Wagen….

          • Tinsley Grey Sammons
            May 18, 2012 at 1:56 am

            Eric, I wouldn’t recognize a lady GaGa song if I heard one.

            I rarely listen to music anymore now that my hearing is as dull as the points on a wrench-worn hex nut or bolt.

            When I told my doctor that I can hardly hear myself fart anymore he just prescribed something to make me fart louder.

          • May 18, 2012 at 9:41 am

            I only inadvertently learned what a Lady Gaga is – fairly recently. I could not tell you what it sings. And hope never to be able to!

  11. Tor Munkov
    May 16, 2012 at 11:24 pm
  12. Brandonjin
    May 16, 2012 at 11:34 pm

    Speaking of new technology, for all of our safety and health, the black box mandate passed in the senate. The house is our last line of defense… haha…

    • liberranter
      May 17, 2012 at 8:50 pm

      The house is our last line of defense… haha…

      We need to start considering ourselves screwed.

  13. DD
    May 16, 2012 at 11:34 pm

    The Terrorists want you out of your cars.
    Everything they do is for that alone.

    They also want their tax livestock safe and productive like any farmer takes care of his animals…The Safety Nazis have priority.

    Most people just don’t understand their own slavery…If you did then everything Your Owners do makes perfect sense. They are not stupid and benevolent…they want you to think they are though.

    • Tinsley Grey Sammons
      May 17, 2012 at 1:20 am

      Well said, DD.

      Is “tax livestock” an original?

      • BrentP
        May 17, 2012 at 2:24 am

        I’ve been reading and hearing it more and more lately. It’s an accurate term that should get wide use.

      • methylamine
        May 17, 2012 at 3:20 am

        I believe it’s a Stephan Molyneaux original. He frequently compares “citizens” to cattle, and nation-states to ranches.

        Accurate analogy.

        Welcome to neo-feudalism, serf.

        • Tinsley Grey Sammons
          May 17, 2012 at 3:06 pm

          Re: Calling people “cattle”.

          Makes sense to me. I see them mindlessly grazing along the aisles in Walmart whenever I go there. However, their big rounded eyes do give real cattle much better peripheral vision.

          Humans can compensate for their inferior peripheral vision by frequently turning their heads and by the application of superior intelligence . . . but for some reason humans seem reluctant to intelligently use what nature has given them.

          tgsam

          • dom
            May 17, 2012 at 3:27 pm

            I saw a few herd of cattle on the highway this morning grazing on their cell phones while driving.

    • Brad Smith
      May 17, 2012 at 2:37 am

      Tax livestock. Good term.

      • DD
        May 17, 2012 at 4:32 am

        Either Stephan Molyneaux or Karen Kwiatkowski used “Tax Livestock” referring to human animals owned by Statist Terrorists on their Tax Farms which they call “Countries”

        • May 17, 2012 at 9:45 am

          I think it was Molyneaux – and it’s a brilliant conception. Exactly (and bleakly) descriptive of our status. Only now we’re headed to the feed lots. We used to be free range, at least.

          • DD
            May 17, 2012 at 9:01 pm

            They are trying to put a shorter leash on their “free-range” tax livestock…They don’t like when their property escapes the farm like Eduardo Saverin just did. The Terrorists and their MSM psycho-whores now refer to Saverin as a “Traitor”. As Malcolm X understood – Lincoln didn’t free the black slaves, he enslaved us all. The Global Counterfeiters (they are NOT Bankers!) own you.

        • Don
          May 17, 2012 at 3:15 pm

          Karen Kwiatkowski is a 21-year retired military officer whose entire life and her current livlihood depends on that “Tax Livestock”.

          That livestock has paid for and continues to pay for her Ph.D., her kid’s education, her farm, her food, her TRICARE health insurance, her tax-free shopping, her VA loans, her 10% discounts and even free entry at public facilities that the livestock has to pay for and the list goes on.

          I always laugh when her name comes up. It’s irrational for someone to genuinely campaign against something that their very existance is dependent upon.

          I’ve exchanged many emails with Karen and her defense has always been: I’m trying to bankrupt the gov’t as quickly as possible.

          I think responses like that from people is probably why I drink.

          • dom
            May 17, 2012 at 3:23 pm

            Gotta quit drinking. The man likes it when you do that! It’s been over a month for me.

          • Tinsley Grey Sammons
            May 18, 2012 at 2:44 am

            I think about Kwiatkowski and some of the others published by LewRockwell.com every time is send him one of my best. Rockwell does publish some very good material but he also publishes some really vapid crap.

            And I don’t write crap.

            I had an uncle and a first cousin who were each KIA at nineteen. One in WWI and the other in Korea. Each was a Georgia born PFC. Karen probably receives as much in a month as the two of them earned during their entire young lives. They lost all they would ever have for a pittance.

            “When you take a man’s life you’ve taken all he’s got and all he’s ever gonna have.” –Clint Eastwood

            Tinsley Grey Sammons

          • May 18, 2012 at 9:39 am

            I don’t know Karen, but her writing is good. That said, you make a very valid point. Of course, it’s also true that people become aware at different points in their lives. Karen may not have realized the nature of the thing – and the source of her income – until she was already heavily committed and invested. She may (probably did) enter the military at a young age, for good reasons – in the sense that she honestly meant to do right. Perhaps by the time she became aware, or began to see the truth of the matter, she’d already put in 15 or 20 years. Now she’s middle aged, and this is her “career.” What to do? Start over? Chuck everything? To do so would be admirable, certainly. I like to think it’s what I would do (in my case, the crucible will be SS; I plan not to accept one red – stolen – cent. I hope I can live up to that.)

            Not an excuse, but an explanation – and my reason for being a bit more gentle toward her and most definitely having empathy for her.

          • BrentP
            May 18, 2012 at 3:04 am

            I don’t think lewrockwell takes submissions but from just a few people that have been on the site for ages. I’ve made email comments and he asked me to write something on it and he used an article I wrote here. Ones I just wrote cause I felt like it and sent… crickets. And sometimes those were better ones IMO.

  14. Timpetus
    May 17, 2012 at 5:25 am

    If I was the engineer in charge of a new car I would make two versions. One would be the regular, road legal version with all of the government safety crap. The other would have all of that stripped out, but otherwise be perfectly capable of every function the road legal version had. I would then invite every single auto journalist in the world to come and see for themselves exactly what is wrong with cars today, and what could be done if we just said no.

    • May 17, 2012 at 11:17 am

      That would be magnificent, wouldn’t it?

      Even better, allow both versions into showrooms and give buyers the free choice to decide for themselves what they need.

    • DD
      May 17, 2012 at 9:08 pm

      That would just piss off your political owners…they will be murdered if they try something like that.

  15. Scott
    May 17, 2012 at 6:19 am

    97% harmless water vapor and CO2 huh? Mr. Peters, we at the EPA are going to recommend you for “re-education”. Water vapor and CO2 are two of the most serious pollutants known to our agency, second only to cow farts as a threat to society.

    You didn’t expect us to just fold up our tents and go home after we cleaned up the air back in the 70′s did you? Think man! we have families and mortgages.

    Now, let us tell you all about Global Warming…

    • May 17, 2012 at 9:43 am

      I know, I know…!

      Both have in fact been re-categorized as “emissions” – implying they’re in the same league as NOx and carbon monoxide.

      • Jean
        June 5, 2013 at 1:39 pm

        So the new X-prize will be a closed-system auto? LOL

    • methylamine
      May 17, 2012 at 3:54 pm

      ROFLMAO! That’s beautiful Scott.

      (tongue firmly in cheek…)
      Please tell us about global warming, er, “climate change” and how we’ve all been Very Very Naughty Boys and Girls who deserve to explode for drowning all those polar bears.

      Also please delude us about CO2, and be sure to ignore the sun while you’re at it. Hell, ignore all logic and science at all; I’ve grown to LIKE being lied to and deceived, it’s FUN!
      (remove tongue from cheek)

      I’m convinced many people truly do enjoy being fooled; “ah, you got me again! THIS time I won’t believe you….unless you put on a great show!”

      Similar to suspension of disbelief going into a movie, they continue to support Obama. I was shocked this morning on my way to work as I drove though my neighborhood–$600K minimum house prices–and saw a fucking Obama 2012 lawn poster.

      What sane, logical, intelligent person–or even one possessing one of those three qualities–would still support this assclown teleprompted Trotsky Jr?

      How deep in dreamland do you have to be?

      I think Alex Jones has it right when he says to feel sorry for the truly deluded, because they’re literally in a trance. I don’t know how much credence to give the theories of mind control, because I’m a firm believer in free will theories of mind. But I must say–propaganda has never been so effective, judging from the somnambulistic drones Amerikans have become.

      • Scott
        May 17, 2012 at 6:52 pm

        I think it’s guilt that’s responsible for the Obama ads on suburban lawns. The soccer moms want to be seen as caring, nurturing humans so they stop considering their own enlightened self interests and publicly support a policy aimed squarely at totally destroying their lives. I believe they secretly hope Obama will either fail to be re-elected because someone else has some sense, or that if he’s elected nothing substantial will change (which when you think about it isn’t all that irrational).

        • Scott
          May 17, 2012 at 6:54 pm

          Then there’s the theory that they just want to be punished for being successful when some many others aren’t. There’s plenty of room for self-flagellation in the modern Western psyche. The Catholic church has diminished somewhat, but it hasn’t entirely disappeared.

          • Jean
            June 5, 2013 at 4:09 pm

            Not just the Catholics, Churchianity has devolved a LONG way. Baptists, Catholics, Lutherans, Holy Rollers (shakers) et al – all cut from the same “neon stupid” cloth. If it feels good, do it, and we’ll forgive you. If you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour, you’re SAVED – even if you’re a psychotic murderer 6 days a week.

            I was born Catholic. I read Canterbury tales, too, and one makes the same point: Your DEEDS are what sets you apart. “They’ll know we are Christians by our love.” LOVE requires DEEDS. Not tithing (that might be good), but actually DOING. Go to the soup kitchen, feed the poor/homeless, visit the sick, etc.

            Don’t profess your faith and then abrogate it with your actions. Example: Women are pedestalized a lot these days, especially in Catholic “virgin Mary” cultist ways. Deference to women, instead of leadership. How HOLY the Fairer Sex is! The Non-violent female!

            Who fell first, again? And who DECIDED to follow suit? We forget that. We forget that women are also human. We try to take care of them, meet their needs, cater to their wants, listen to their BS – and then look around, and realize we’re slaves in the house WE bought, doing as much work as we’d do if we were SINGLE – but we can be taken to court and thrown out of our house, and forced to pay for her lifestyle (we’re taxed on the “income”, BTW, while she gets it tax-free) for the REST OF HER LIFE… And that’s IF YOU’RE LUCKY. You can go to jail (penury) DESPITE the Debtor’s Prison being OUTLAWED here – and your INCOME can be “guessed” (imputed), and if you’re not working “enough” – guess where you go!

            Churchianity is one of the “symptoms” I mention below. A branch. Of evil. NO absolutes, NO laws, or maybe, ” ‘Do as thou wilt’ shall be the whole of the law.”
            Your FAITH will save you later…

            All cut from the same cloth, these days. They make COPS look SMART, these “ministers” of the cloth…

            Give me the good old days (even from before I was born). Men were men, women were women, ONE income could support a household, people minded their own business – and could be legally punched for interfering in yours. Strikes me as overall better (and I’m an outlier, don’t forget.)

            Western Psyche is non-existent, these are bleating “emoters,” they are incapable of independent thought. (And most HATE things written by DWM, Dead White Males. After all, the writings of Africa are SO MUCH MORE interesting. And even better if it’s a pre-colonial lesbian n*gger…)

            Sorry to be dripping hatred for the Stupid Sheeple, but… They earn my (and your, I bet) hatred and contempt DAILY. And they hate me, too – too intelligent, too strong, too wealthy, too healthy, too good looking (WTF are they smoking?)…
            But I refuse to be part of their stupidity, I will NOT play their game (checkers without rules) when I can manage something much more elegant and useful (Say, 3D chess. Yes, it’s real.) I expect THEM to try and reach MY level – I will not degrade myself to theirs. Yes, I’m an elitist because of that. Oddly enough, I get along FINE with rednecks, hicks, hillbillys, Africans, Asians, Europeans. I don’t do well with idiots or n*ggers. Yet the other groups and I can talk, and we can work together to common/mutual benefit. All the imbeciles and n*ggers can do is tear us ALL down to live in filth and squallor, and they talk of how WONDERFUL it is.
            Just like the Globalists… Who would live in opulence and conspicuous consumption, while we live in squallor. And the Imbeciles et al will cheer them on, “The Beautiful People.”

            Kill ‘em all. God knows none are his.

        • liberranter
          May 17, 2012 at 8:54 pm

          The soccer moms want to be seen as caring, nurturing humans so they stop considering their own enlightened self interests and publicly support a policy aimed squarely at totally destroying their lives.

          “Soccer moms” = the ultimate argument for forced sterilization.

          • Scott
            May 18, 2012 at 7:29 am

            There’s no need to force sterilization of a good soccer mom, they do it themselves. This is where Cougars come from.

          • Jean
            June 5, 2013 at 4:14 pm

            Eh, some make it “MILF” status.
            Then again, some guys never grow up.

            It’s not the “soccer mom” that’s the problem it’s the things they KNOW that just aren’t so – and they vote in a herd, and don’t understand (or care) about the consequences to US – their husbands/sons/brothers/lovers – and ultimately, themselves, as well.
            But it FEELS good….

            BTW, sterilization AFTER becoming the soccer mom is rather pointless…. :-P Darwin’s already been thwarted. ;-)

        • Jean
          June 5, 2013 at 3:40 pm

          Scott,
          You need to go look up the ‘gina tingle in the Manosphe/MAndrosphere. It all makes sense after you find the Red Pill. Be aware, it’s a bitter pill, and a one-way trip.

          Women chase and sleep with men who make them feel that “tingle.” A dominant, assertive, even aggressive man, who doesn’t really give a cr@p about her. After all, if he’s got multiple women who will sleep with him, he MUST be high-quality (for children.)
          Once the reality sets in, she’ll change her mind (literally, as hormones change – it’s visible even in the monthly cycle and how that affects her partner selection), and try to find a Beta Provider – someone to care for the child she’ll pass off as his, but is really the Alpha Bad Boy’s offspring.

          Also note, this is the reason we’re seeing such f*cked-up woMEN these days: their thinking is combative and aggressive because the natural hormones are FUBAR (more than nature intended), because birth control works by mimicking pregnancy. IOW, her brain chemistry is on overload for a large portion of her “fertile” years, and in some of them, the circuits basically burn out. (At the same time, the correct circuits never fire.)

          Applied to politics, it means women lean “left” (notably so when single). The ultimate “provider” is Daddy Government. Also, the ultimate grantor / guarantor of LICENSE, the ability to do whatever she wants without consequences. Leaving aside the “misogynistic” view that women never really mature – IE, are always basically late-teens mentally / maturation-wise – they still vote for whomever will “protect” and “provide” for them more, and give them more “rights” and protect them from responsibilities.
          WIC. CHIP. EBT. Unemployment extensions. FMLA. Maternity leave. Enforced unequal pay for unequal work (IE, women can be paid MORE for working LESS, despite the bullshit they claim about “60 cents on the dollar” or whatever number they pull out of their {ahem}. Don’t take my word for it, look into Nursing and Engineering as two good examples; then, check the hours worked vs. the pay and the benefits, and see who benefits more: Man or woman. Look also at the criminal sentencing discount for being female, and the divorce/family court discrepancies.)

          Also, check the growth of the welfare state / social safety net since women got the vote: It’s exploded, grown almost exponentially.
          Lastly, look at how women select for a mate: they use those same indicators WRT who they vote for. So, taller, better looking, more cultured (or sometimes more thuggish), more dominant (overtly – hence the inclusion of thuggish before). Emotions matter. There is NO rational thought.

          And if you doubt this, take a look at Roissy in DC / Citizen Renegade; Married Man Sex Life; Romollo Tomassi; Becoming Alpha; Jack Donovan (more man-centric than dating, but backs up significant portions of this simply WRT being masculine. Odd thing there is, he’s gay. But still idetifiably manly, masculine, etc. IE, not a Poof or Swish or Flamer; can’t stand them, in fact. The different view reinforces the validity of the others, plus tons more I haven’t mentioned, but you’ll be able to find via linkage.)

          I’m sorry to say, it’s ALL been documented – and once you see it, you’ll be SHOCKED at how mush we ahve LOST as a culture, due to this same set of memes being foisted on us WRT “SAFETY”, “For the Children,” “Ecology” (So called – like the #futureoftheenvironment tweetline, posting signs around boston ultimately pitting Man agains the Environment. Ecology and Economy being the most hateful, in my mind – the subtext being, you can’t have BOTH, so choose ECOLOGY because it’s “right.” Another was “Fish” vs “Fisherman”. Get the concept? People are evil. Goes back to UN Agenda 21, depopulation /sustainable ecology. Much like Abortion – Look up Margaret Sanger, I beleive she’s already made “honorable” mention here; look up her definition of who should be using Planned Parenthood and abortions. Then check who DOES get abortions… Other eugenecists made it here too: Feminists of all stripes are in fact doing the same thing: preventing breeding. Masculinize the woman, feminize the man, neither is happy, neither particularly effective, and divided they fall. Universal franchise was a step in that road, too: Instead of going from one vote for those with skin in the game – property owners – to one vote per family – making a stable family cornerstone of the society – we went to female employment “Empowerment” and destruction of male sexuality [sexual harassment, false rape claims] and removed male protectorship and provisioning, aka Male Headship, aka Patriarchy, to one vote per person – making the family irrelevant. No stable family, no stable society. We’re just suffering the death-twitches of the aftermath here, as did the Romans and Greeks, and British, and as the Indians are now creating for themselves. We won’t dig in too deep, but: Raunch Culture, S.C.U.M. (Society for Cutting Up Men), Valerie Salernas I think her name is; Women-Firsters everywhere; women worshipping and pedestalizing, whivh gives her all the attention and admiration her ego could crave, with NO RISK – no slut-shaming, either, can’t call a spade a spade… Gave women “ownership of their bodies”, but kept men responsible for everything. Reproductive freedom, if you will. Women can choose abstinence, demand “protection,” take the pill, take morning after pill, use an IUD, have an abortion, choose to adopt the child out, choose to abandon the child at hospital or police of fire station, choose to have the child and keep it, and name anyone as the father, and demand child support from him – and he doesn’t get a say in it, nor does he get to question it – in some places even getting a DNA test is illegal! – but he DOES get to pay for it, if she names him as the father, EVEN IF HE IS NOT – which is how the whole “DNA test is illegal” part came up. It’s BEEN through court. Not new, either, IIRC it was Lord Acton: Any child DURING the marriage is PRESUMED, even with contradicting evidence, to be the husband’s offspring, and he is obligated to pay for it – even if it’s OBVIOUSLY (DNA) not his. Visitation with the child is NOT a requirement. And fighting it is impossible any more. Notification is “valid” even if he never lived at the provided addres, and therefore could never get the papers “served” via mail. then there’s PROVING that she acted in bad faith – ie, proving it was a fraud case. Good luck finding someone to PROSECUTE, let alone get a conviction!)

          Sorry about the threadjack – I’ve been burned, I figure it’s good to warn people about the fire. We’ll soon get to a massive explosion, and what’s “normal fare” here doesn’t even BEGIN to uncover how deep the rot truly goes. But this space isn’t meant for most of the rest – it touches on symptoms: Bad cops, bad laws, auto manufacturer BS, regulatory BS, Cloverism.
          But there’s a HUGE field OF FIELDS that never gets touched, just because it’s all off-topic, and most people aren’t aware of the connections. Best analogy is the tree: we’re looking at a handful of branches here, but we need to change focus to the ROOTS. The evil has taken hold on the primary pillars: Government, Religion, Education. Without those, you cannot have a society (and even Atheists are a religion for our purposes here.) Atheists in the west, for instance, neglect acknowledging their ideas of “ethics” or “morality” come form the Judeo-Christian societal foundations. Had they been raised in the days of the Mayan Empire, they’d see human sacrifice as “moral,” even if they see it as “murder” now. We are molded by our culture growing up.

          We need to burn the roots. We need to fight centralization and power grabs, and we need to be less than civil about it: being civil to the evil b@st@rds got us HERE. Confront evil. Mercilessly. In the courts, on the airwaves, on the roadways, in print, in house of worship, in politics, in law, EVERYWHERE, ALL THE TIME. And we can’t be “civilized” about it, either. “Talking” about things, you end up dealing with people who could talk you into slitting your own throat. That’s why they gravitate to these fields: they are maniuplators, liars, controllers, and they LIKE it that way, and like making others bow, or getting control of others. So treat them like any other snake. Only, the frame has been changed: WE are the unreasonable ones, because we want to be LEFT ALONE. WE are “abnormal.” WE are “antisocial.” Because we don’t want to be branded, be part of the collective, be part of the “cool” crowd. Part of the HERD.

          Cloverism isn’t just about driving.

          It’s the Obama sign in the upper-class neighborhoods. And make NO mistake, they DID vote for the HNIC – they just figure, because they’re “hip” and “get it,” that they are immune to the potential (to them) bad effects.
          And those with Rethuglican signs are just Smart Clovers, no mistake. Reprocrat or Dempublican, they both want the same thing: To live off YOUR wealth, at a higher standard than you could ever hope to attain, while distracting you from the real issues for as long as possible – and then retiring and handing the money funnel off to a new shill before / right after you get wise. the new shill blames the old shill, the government grows, your paycheck gets smaller, your money supports more indolents and imbeciles, and THEIR standard of living goes up – while YOURS goes down – and the Free Shit Army (FSA) breeds more herd animals than you could even hope to drown out with quality offspring.

          We *(free humans) are being attacked on ALL FRONTS, at ALL TIMES. No one is willing to take a stand over the quarter going to Agency X, it’s too small. but 3 million people later, it’s a lot of money. And there’a Agency A, B, C, D, E, F, G, etc all the way down the line, all with their hands out, trying to control you and protect you “for your own good.” And then there’s no money LEFT to manage the fight – all because it didn’t cost enough at the start to even bother arguing.

          Same thing, every time. Greece, Rome, China, Japan, Kush, South Africa, Isreal, Macedonia, Norse, Britons, Persians, Byzantines, Soviets, etc, etc, etc. All fall from within. All for the same reasons. Soviet Union just showed us where we’re going. But when Pravda calls you on it? you KNOW you’re f*cked.

          And we are rapidly approaching the point where violence will be the ONLY answer. Lovely to live during the end of an empire, huh?

          • BrentP
            June 5, 2013 at 5:33 pm

            Jean, I think Scott gets it. Men can’t say what you just did in public, we have to be more careful or the reaction is vile. To even suggest that a woman has difficulties because of her selection of mate is to invite a storm of dung hitting a fan.

      • Tinsley Grey Sammons
        May 23, 2012 at 8:16 pm

        Wikipedia has an excellent piece about the still receding glaciers. It is a good read and apparently well researched.

        • Tor Munkov
          May 23, 2012 at 9:33 pm

          Dear TGS:

          I found this paragraph in the wiki article “Retreat_of_glaciers_since_1850.” Is this the article you meant? My browser is running a

          script that substitutes a number/punctuation for its corresponding two-letter digraph short-name, but it’s still legible right?

          The word BRacket => [acket; DOllar => $llar; EQuals => =uals; QUestion => ?estion; TWo => 2o; and ZEro => 0ro. Does this make

          sense?

          Impacts of glacier retreat

          The conti#ed retre@ of glaciers will ha| a number of "ffer;t qu&ntitative im(cts. In areas 3at are heavily dep;dent on water r_off from

          glaciers that melt during the warmer summer >nths, a ,ntinuation of the {rrent retreat will eventually dep<te the glacial ice and

          substan*ally reduce or eli-nate runoff. A reducti1 in runoff will affect the ~ility to irrigate crops and will reduce summer stream flows

          necessary to keep dams and re7rvoirs reple9shed. This 6tuation is particularly acute 4r irrigation in South Ameri^, where numerous

          arti5cial lakes are filled almost exclusively by glacial melt. Central Asian countries have also been historically de%ndent on the

          seasonal glacier melt water for irrigation and drinking sup+ies. In Norway, the Alps, and the Pacific Northwest of North America,

          glacier runoff is im.rtant for hydropower.

          Some of this :treat has resulted in efforts to /ow down the loss of glaciers in the Alps. To retard melting of the glaciers used by certain

          Austrian ski resorts, portions of the Stubai and Pitztal Glaciers were partially covered with plastic. In Switzerland plastic sheeting is

          also used to reduce the melt of glacial ice used as ski slopes. While covering glaciers with plastic sheeting may prove advantageous

          to ski resorts on a small scale, this practice is not expected to be economically practical on a much larger scale.

          Many species of freshwater and saltwater plants and animals are dependent on glacier-fed waters to ensure the cold water habitat to

          which they have ad'ted. Some species of freshwater fish need cold water to survive and to reproduce, and this is especially true with

          salmon and cutthroat trout. Reduced glacial runoff can lead to insufficient stream flow to allow these species to thrive. Alterations to

          the ocean currents, due to increased freshwater inputs from glacier melt, and the potential alterations to thermohaline circulation of

          the World Ocean, may impact existing fisheries upon which humans depend as well.

          The potential for major sea level rise depends mostly on a significant melting of the polar ice caps of `eenland and Antarctica, as this

          is where the vast majority of glacial ice is located. If all the ice on the polar ice caps were to melt away, the oceans of the world would

          rise an estimated 230 ft. Although previously it was thought that the polar ice caps were not contributing heavily to sea level rise,

          recent studies have confirmed that both Antarctica and Greenland are contributing 0.020 in. a year each to glo\l sea level rise. The !ct

          that the IPCC estimates did not include rapid ice sheet decay into th8r sea level predictions makes it difficult to ascertain a plausible

          estimate for sea level rise but recent studies find that the minimum sea level rise will be around 2.6 ft. by 2100.

          Thank you, ТФЯ МЦПКОВ

          re: {[{Freeing Speech & Thwarting Naggers Project}])

    • Boothe
      May 17, 2012 at 6:03 pm

      Scott we at the *EPA no longer refer to it as the safe sounding euphemism “water vapor.” Update your lexicon; it is di-hydrogen oxide and it is a deadly pollutant. Approximately 1.2 million people die annually from breathing di-hydrogen oxide in its condensed form. Many of these respiratory overdoses of di-hydrogen oxide occur right in the victim’s home or in their own back yard! Until we can effectively regulate, control and tax atmospheric di-hydrogen oxide emissions and clean up the ubiquitous pools of its lethal condensate, we can expect a continuing trend of human inhalation fatalities.

      *EPA – Empty-headed Pernicious Assclowns

      • dom
        May 17, 2012 at 6:34 pm

        One of my workout buddies works at the EPA. I won’t mention what he says about it, but it’s pretty much what ya’ll would expect.

        • Scott
          May 17, 2012 at 7:37 pm

          I really liked the comment left on youTube anyway:

          “Technology is dominated by two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage and those who manage what they do not understand.”

      • Scott
        May 17, 2012 at 7:33 pm

        This little clip reveals my opinion of the EPA pretty well:

        di-hydrogen oxide! I love it :)

        • Scott
          May 17, 2012 at 7:34 pm

          Oh well. I’ve never figure the secret of embedding video in a blog. Here’s the clip:

        • Jean
          June 5, 2013 at 4:17 pm

          BTW, some radio hosts LOST THEIR JOBS over an April 1st prank involving THIS VERY SUBSTANCE. They incited a PUBLIC PANIC.

          Teh Stoopid, it HURTZ!!!

  16. Tionico
    May 17, 2012 at 7:21 am

    back in the sixties, there were a number of smaller cars, though sufficiently commodious, that weighed in at well under the one ton mark, had engines in the one to one point six or so liter displacement, easily held highway speeds in the eighties, and delivered upward of forty five miles to the gallon of cheap regular. AND were fun to drive. Then there were the BIG ones.. weights slightly on the high side of twenty five hundred pounds, engine displacement in the three liter plus range, cruising speeds near a hundred, and fuel consumption in the high thirties at “sane” speeds, low thirties and high twenties at insane speeds. E type Jag, Austin Healy BN7, Rover three thousand five, Porsche 911, BMW Bavaria, Mercedes 280 SEL….. now, curb weights are near double, displacements as well, and mileage in the low twenties to low teens… and, for the most part, nowhere near as fast. A Honda Accord from the early nineties has two and a half liters displacement, is gutless, and delivers perhaps 25 miles to the gallon if driven gently. Its got worse since then, undoubtedly.

    • May 17, 2012 at 9:42 am

      I know – I owned one of those cars!

      I had (until about 2003) a ’64 Corvair Monza coupe. All stock. 110 hp engine, four-speed transmission. The interior was very roomy (rear engine allowed flat floor and three-across bench seating). It easily held 70-75 MPH. Gas mileage was not great – low 20s – but that’s pretty good when you reflect it’s about the same as a current Accord and my Corvair did not have overdrive gearing or the benefit of fuel injection. If it had, I am sure it would have been mileage competitive with a new Accord, if not superior to it.

      The Corvair weighed about 2,500 lbs. A 2012 Accord (with four cylinder engine) weighs about 3,500 lbs.

      The Corvair also cost a lot less when new – and much less to maintain.

      • Tinsley Grey Sammons
        May 17, 2012 at 10:28 am

        Re: Corvair

        Slimy lawyer (Is that one word or two?) Ralph Nader cut short the future of what could have evolved into a truly great car.

        How many gallons of ethylene glycol find their way into the environment each year? What is the cost of the resources that are applied to the manufacture and recycling of liquid coolant? How big is the environmental footprint of the anti-freeze industry, including distribution and sale?

        • May 17, 2012 at 10:55 am

          On Nader: Many people aren’t aware that the shitbag shyster didn’t even have a driver’s license, much less ever actually drive a Corvair.

          The early (1960-’63) models were prone to rear suspension jacking/oversteer, especially if the owner did not maintain the correct tire pressure and/or made the novice driver error of lifting off the gas abruptly in a fast curve. The ’64s had a transverse leaf spring and handled much more predictably. The ’65-’69s had a Corvette-like independent suspension and handled excellently for their time. This car could have been developed into something really great.

          Nader’s real legacy is not so much killing the Corvair as it is convincing GM that it was better policy to stifle innovation and play it “safe.”

          • BrentP
            May 17, 2012 at 2:03 pm

            Not just GM. It spread to other automakers and even outside autos as the consumer safety nonsense*. Hell, it’s spread throughout the whole culture because it plays to the social nature of the human animal where different people are harassed, attacked, etc. Nader killed innovation by punishing being different.

            This is what I hate most about the safety culture. It’s not bad enough that someone fail in the market, put up with the jeers of being different and so on that come with innovation but Nader and crew pushed it further, that innovators must be punished for daring to be different in the first place. No one is allowed to challenge the collective without suffering.

            *Lawyers and political people such Nader, et al. practice nonsense. If there is a desire to achieve safety through 3rd party standards then it best comes out of the private engineering groups. SAE, ANSI, ISO, UL and so on.

          • Jean
            June 5, 2013 at 4:24 pm

            re:BrentP:
            “If there is a desire to achieve safety through 3rd party standards then it best comes out of the private engineering groups. SAE, ANSI, ISO, UL and so on.”

            You mean, it works best if you have skin in the game, AND don’t stand to profit off others’ pain?
            whoda thunk it? ;-)

        • Jean
          June 5, 2013 at 4:22 pm

          Tinsley,
          Is there a NEED for liquid-cooled eninges, in car sizes, normally?
          I know the Beetle was air-cooled, and most bikes are air cooled. Is it impossible to properly air-cool most modern engines (say, since 1990)?

          I’m obviously NOT a gearhead, despite my hopes for fun future projects. :-)

          I also wonder why we allow such toxins* into our lives and homes without a thought.

          *: Two things: 1, used tongue-in-cheek: Grew up with asbestos and leaded gas and paint, still alive, and MOSTLY sane. 2, It makes GREAT sweetener if cops or Feds show up at the door to discuss something. Just keep them drinking coffee…

          • June 5, 2013 at 6:12 pm

            Hi Jean,

            Porsche was the last major automaker in the West to sell an air-cooled passenger car engine. But they couldn’t get it emissions compliant and so went over to water-cooling like everyone else.

  17. Scott
    May 17, 2012 at 7:58 am

    I guess the scary part of it is there’s no clear way out. Blaming the car manufacturers isn’t going to work because they’ll just point at the EPA and NTSB, who’ll point at Congress, who’ll point at the electorate and it starts all over again. But you can’t get rid of the two most “honored” Agencies of the federal government, that just won’t happen. Who would disband the protectors of Clean Air and Safe Transportation? You couldn’t do it, it’s a political non-starter.

    Things might change when the US loses its place as the largest market for cars. I’ve heard GM sold more cars in China than in the US last year, I’d think that put China at least in a position to tell GM what to do even if the US government doesn’t care for it.

    Of course then we’d all have to move to China where they’ve only recently agreed to stop harvesting body parts from political prisoners. There’s just no winning for losing these days.

    • May 17, 2012 at 9:33 am

      There’s a huge disconnect out there. Millions of people who see EPA/NHTSA (etc.) as their saviors; the agencies protecting “clean air” and “safety” – not realizing it’s also these agencies that have made cars far more expensive (and less efficient) than they might otherwise be. The real tragedy is it’s illegal to let the market sort it out. To give, for instance, people the option of selecting a more fuel efficient (but perhaps less “safe”) vehicle – or for it to be legal for a guy (as opposed to a massive corporate cartel) to build and sell a minimalist car – and see whether it sells.

      • May 17, 2012 at 10:58 am

        Yeah, the Owasso Motor Company tried to dodge all that jazz in the 1980s by selling a tippy motorcycle car that looked like a jet fighter. I liked it, but it never “took off.”

      • Scott
        May 18, 2012 at 7:08 am

        But we can’t let people make choices like that Eric. If we let them chose lower cost over their own safety they’d all run out like lemmings and throw themselves of cliffs en mass. People just can’t be trusted to handle their own affairs.

        Excuse me while I dust off my hang glider. My guess is its use it or lose it time at the OK Coral.

        • Scott
          May 18, 2012 at 7:09 am

          choose dammit! Not chose.

          • Scott
            May 18, 2012 at 7:13 am

            Dom, is there any way you can let us correct spelling on these things after we post them? I just look for the red underscores and hit Post if I don’t see any.

            “off cliffs” not “of cliffs”

            Jeez. How many typos can you fit in one paragraph? Watch while I demonstrate…

        • May 18, 2012 at 9:29 am

          It is – use it or lose it time…

          Once the “safety” premise has been accepted – and this society is leg-humping it – then look out. Everything’s on the table. Already, they are going after people who choose to drink raw milk – their raw milk, on their (alleged) property. Not “safe,” doncha know. Once Obamacare is approved, anything we do that the government decides might be “unsafe” will become illegal, or at least, heavily regulated/fined and so on.

          Wait and see…

          • Jean
            June 5, 2013 at 4:35 pm

            Can’t wait, writing’s ont he wall – and WE ALL KNOW IT. :-)

        • Jean
          June 5, 2013 at 4:50 pm

          Interesting side-note:
          The Lemming story is a MYTH, created by Disney filmmakers in one of their nature documentaries.
          See, the herded the lemmings together, tighter and tighter, until the lemmings couldn’t really see what was going on. then they herded them off a cliff.
          And then presented it as actual behavior.

          Reality is, once the herd is stampeding, there’s nothing you can do: you go along or get plowed under, and if you go along, you go over the cliff -that you, on the outside of the stampede, can see – but that those in the middle of the stampede don’t know exists.

          WE are the ones at the edges.
          WE are looking for a LIFE.

          The ones in the middle? They’re the clovers, feeling safe and warm amongst the herd. They are born followers, basically, and truth be told, they will ALWAYS be led from the outside. They aren’t being LED, they’re being HERDED.

          Up to those of us with vision and ability to accept our fate and turn them away from the cliff. Alpha buck, Alpha wolf, Stud Stallion: all falls to him. In a dog pack, the “strongest” dog will lead. Saw an AMAZING change recently – we had two dogs, one an American bulldog who was dog-aggressive. Insurance reasons, we had to get rid of him. Took him to a trainer instead of just putting him down. 3 weeks, 5 sessions, worked with him at home. He was the high-energy, bouncing off the walls, let’s play type.
          We had a chance meeting with someone looking for a playmate for HIS American Bulldog – who was dog aggressive. Not just with little dogs, like ours was, but ALL dogs. Our dog was introduced to him on Thursday. The other dog was barking, yipping, reaching, play-bowing; our dog sat there, looking at us, and him, alternately. Walked a little, they got into it a little – the other was larger by 10 pounds, note.
          Friday, took off the muzzles. About the same.
          Saturday, ran it past the trainer. Both dogs off leash in cage together.
          Sunday we said goodbye, and Goober went to live with his new family, and there’s been ZERO issue with EITHER dog now.

          All because we invested $500 in five lessons for Goober. Goober is the boss, but seems low-energy compared to the other one.

          He’s the ALPHA – as a calm, cool, aware animal. HE has the vision, HE controls the pack. He’s not pandering to the other dog, or to the humans, he’s just keeping things under control.
          Same as we need to do, despite our “Prime Directive” training – we need to throw that shackle off our brains, or we’ll all be trained to be that “high energy” “hyper” “PUT HIM ON MEDS” dog… As will our children, of course.

          Lousy choice, but look at how the dynamics work. No more shysters “leading” from behind. Orderly society (pack) instead of organized herd. Meritocracy vs iron-fisted control.

          How can we turn the lemmings we are forced to run with? BEFORE we get to guns, I mean.

    • Tinsley Grey Sammons
      May 17, 2012 at 10:11 am

      Scott, the State, every State, will always be the enemy of every Individual who has a passion for Liberty and Justice. Albert Jay Nock nailed it with OUR ENEMY THE STATE* back in 1935, the year before I was born.

      Tinsley Grey Sammons

      *Free on the ‘net.

    • Tinsley Grey Sammons
      May 17, 2012 at 12:13 pm

      America’s adult population would be wise to acquire sufficient competence to:

      (a) File sui juris without paying an unlawful filing fee to the legal extortionists.

      (b) Implement jury nullification.

      (c) Take part in Issuing Presentments ordering that indictments be drawn. Presentment power is guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment. There is no more powerful lawful, and also legal, weapon in the People’s Bill of Rights arsenal.

      So-called Runaway Grand Juries have the potential power to kick office holders asses by issuing Presentments. A so-called Runaway Grand Jury is a grand jury that has liberated itself from unlawful control and influence by a member of the Brotherhood of Juris Doctors.

      • liberranter
        May 17, 2012 at 9:00 pm

        A so-called Runaway Grand Jury is a grand jury that has liberated itself from unlawful control and influence by a member of the Brotherhood of Juris Doctors.

        Specifically members of that brotherhood serving in the role of prosecutor, this particular strain of vermin having hi-jacked and co-opted the grand jury as one of their own tools.

  18. May 17, 2012 at 10:57 am

    Catalytic Converters are shit. I hate riding a bike behind any of these new cars. Oh damn that smell! It’s some kind of horrible chemical smell which gives the worst headache. I”m all for lighter and reasonably powered vehicles, but I think that most of the emissions stuff is just to make money for politicians and state governments. I think it all craps out in a couple years and no one ever fixes it unless forced to. I’m not paying $400 for a crapalytic converter on my truck. I found an aftermarket one for $100, and an electric exhaust cutout for cheap. I’ll make that stupid converter last a LONG time.

    • May 17, 2012 at 11:04 am

      If it smells, something’s wrong!

      That rotten egg/sulfur smell indicates a problem. A properly functioning cat results in an exhaust stream that’s far easier on the nose (and lungs and eyes).

      That said, Honda was able to sell the CVCC engine in the ’70s Civic without cats – so it is possible to run a “clean” engine without a cat.

      Motorcycles mostly did not have cats until fairly recently (circa 2004) and ran very cleanly, too.

      • Tinsley Grey Sammons
        May 17, 2012 at 11:40 am

        “If it smells, something’s wrong!”

        Yep. When I rode motorcycles, way back when there were few if any cats, the oily smell caused by worn out valve stem seals along with the smell of unburned fuel was occasionally so bad that I would exit and take an alternate route to my destination, even when it was the long way around.

        You really get a snoot full on a motorcycle. Often I could pick up a smoker and/or a raw gas fume emitter from a mile behind. Had I wanted to I could have unerringly bloodhounded my way to the source vehicle. In fact, I often wondered if the two wheeler ticket writing lawmen ever did just that.

        I’m fairly sure that I was the world’s champion Clunker Curser.

        • Werner
          May 17, 2012 at 1:59 pm

          I added the recommended quantity of a well-known fuel injector cleaner fluid to a full tank of gas and the exhaust began to smell like rotten eggs combined with some other strong evil nauseating odor!

          One benefit: It seemed to keep the usual tailgaters away for a while until it cleared up with a fresh tank of gas!

      • BrentP
        May 17, 2012 at 2:08 pm

        It was possible in the 1970s to do it. Up until about about 1982. Even with some work for a few years after maybe. HC (now VOC) limits have dropped considerably since. It simply isn’t possible now, let alone holding that level for a 100K miles.

  19. william
    May 17, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    As evidence that you are correct, my 1992 civic VX, which I bought new 20 years ago, still gives me 45mpg regularly. That is better than any currently available non hybrid new car in the US, even the “smart” car. But you are wrong about what comes out of your car’s tailpipe. Most of it is N2(nitrogen).

  20. me
    May 17, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    “Many people don’t know that Hitler was a great admirer of the Grand Mufti of Palestine (and of Islam, generally – which he considered completely compatible with national socialism).” Supposedly either the Taliban or Al Queda was started by a man in contact with Hitler-Hassan Al- Bana. The extremists there are essentially a metastasized offshoot of the national socialist movement.

  21. Don
    May 17, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    Dom – Good for you man.

    I’m starting slow. I’ve dedicated three days a week (M,W,F) as “health days” for me. I don’t drink and I ride my bike. A slow, gradual change of lifestyle. If I tried to quit cold turkey it’d never work.

    The hardest thing on my health days is going to bed. I’ve been passing out for so many years, I forgot how to fall asleep. :))

    • dom
      May 17, 2012 at 3:49 pm

      To be completely honest, the only reason I quit is so I can have a clear mind and be ready for when times get tough!

  22. Bert Lindsey
    May 17, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    …”And three percent of 10 percent is a great deal less than the implied 10 percent of 100 percent.”

    I think you mean “10 percent of three percent…”

    the reduction would be 10 percent of the remaining 3 percent…

    small point, but more accurate.

  23. sth_txs
    May 17, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    A few years ago, in my part of the country, the State of Texas had a person with a van to monitor tail pipe emissions of a Gulf Coast city. It used a laser system pointed at the exhaust.

    No one was fined or impounded and was only to see what kind of population of cars were in use.

    It turned out that the operate could not tell the difference between an early 90′s vehicle or a new one. If the vehicle is maintained, the emissions are minimal.

  24. charlie
    May 17, 2012 at 7:20 pm

    As you say this is done on purpose due to taxation revenue. Gas is taxed per gallon, so if we get better gas mileage there would less revenue for the revenuers. That is why the gubment does not allow better gas mileage cars. Also lightening cars would involve taking out the airbags, which would cause that industry to fail; something the gubment does not want, because that industry provides jobs and tax revenue. The fact that industry produces a worthless product does not matter. It’s all about jobs, jobs, jobs, and taxes, taxes, taxes

  25. Stanford
    May 17, 2012 at 7:29 pm

    We’ve all heard that Obamacare will pay nuns for birth control. What a lot of people don’t know is that Eunuchs will be able to get Viagra. It’s in there.

  26. Chris T.
    May 17, 2012 at 7:43 pm

    Eric writes that:
    “a vehicle, …(@) 1,800 lbs., …would not need more than about 100 hp (probably less) to be powerful enough for most … driving”

    I lived in Germany most of the 90s and drove a 1.6l Golf II much fo the time there. That engine produced 72hp (DIN), and had a stated (registration papers) top speed of 155kmh (about 95mph).
    That was plenty, even when driving on the Autobahn.
    Sure, it would have been nice, over there, to be able to go 175-200kmh (about 110-125mph), and to get to 100kmh/62mph in less than about 11-12s, but necessary?

    No, and in fact, then, many cars had less than that 72hp.
    Even today, just check out on some local websites what the average car in Germany comes equipped with today:
    VW doesn’t offer any Golf with 200hp (not counting specials, or the R or GTI).

    If such a car was fine on the Autobahns, and elswhere too, why would 100hp be the bottom for us here in the US, esp. given that even those willing to go 85+mph virtually never can or do?

    The hypothetical Jetta (barring the weight, but certainly with engine size) ALREADY exists for sale all over Europe.
    They just are not on sale here in the bloated/inflated US.

    Its customers’ lack of demand or acceptance, that keeps companies like VW from bringing these cars here.
    Consumers in the US are as much at fault here, as government mandates!

    • Tinsley Grey Sammons
      May 18, 2012 at 12:57 am

      The pre-1961 VW Beetle had a 36 hp engine and performed quite well. In fact, the 36 hp was a much better engine than the 40 hp engine that replaced it.

      The WWII Kubelwagen’s* engine produced a mere 25 hp. Waffen SS veteran Alois Neu told me that they loaded their Kubelwagens until the torsion bars could stand no more and the vehicle was still able to negotiate the bad roads in Russia. However, Neu did say that they were always glad to capture an American Jeep because it was a better machine. After being transferred to the Western Front, Neu was badly wounded during the Battle of the Bulge and that ended his war.

      BTW, Unlike SAE horsepower, the German Industrial (DIN) rating is honest Pferdestaerke.

      tgsam

      *The service school in Jacksonville, Florida actually had one. The gears in the transmission were not synchronized so it was called a “crashbox”.

      • May 18, 2012 at 9:50 am

        I once owned a Thing (1973), which of course is the civilianized version of the Kubel. Like the Beetle, with which it shared running gear, it was powerful enough to be driven on modern American roads. The key being, to make use of what you had. Most American drivers do not. I encounter the same phenomenon today. When I go out in the ’98 Nissan pick-up, which has a small four-cylinder engine, I am still usually “quicker” (and “faster”) than almost every other car, because I use what I’ve got and the rest of them, don’t. I often pass vehicles with twice (or even three times) the hp, dawdling along at 57 MPH in a 55…. in the curves, I dart by sports cars with 19 inch wheels/tires, auto-adjusting magneto-hydraulic sport suspensions, etc. driven by not-so-sporty drivers, in my 14-year-old pick-up with 140,000 miles and 15-inch wheels with el cheapo tires on them.

        The whole hp/power/capability thing is to a great extent about talking points, not functional reality. A willing driver in a basic little car can get more done – more quickly – than the typical American oblivio, sail fawn glued to his ear, “driving” his 300 hp sport sedan…

        • Tinsley Grey Sammons
          May 18, 2012 at 10:56 am

          “oblivio”

          A perfect description with a single word. I visualized the dumfuk in an instant.

          Those who think must constantly beware of those who do not.

          SITUATION AWARENESS
          The race does not always go to the driver with the most powerful machine. Most of my driving is done in my 2002 Corolla on Hwy 61 in the Gonzales area. There is plenty of distance between traffic lights so, I focus on a light in plenty of time to adjust my speed in an effort to avoid making a complete brake wearing, fuel squandering, time wasting stop. I am truly amazed at the number of drivers who simply do not.

          I easily outpace the other drivers who apparently make no time calculation regarding a long visible traffic light. I’ve been doing it for so long now that it seems instinctive.

          *****

          In air-to-air combat combat the kill will go to the better trained and smarter pilot. During the Korean War the F-86 Sabre pilots enjoyed a better than ten-to-one kill advantage over the more powerfully armed, higher flying and faster Mig-15 mostly because they were smarter and better pilots.

          Ace Joe McConnel made long range kills at extreme high altitude by instinctively taking advantage of the improved ballistics in the rarefied atmosphere. Now that’s cool.

          Google: Situation Awareness

          Situation Awareness is just as applicable to ground vehicles as it is to aircraft.

          • Chris T.
            May 18, 2012 at 2:52 pm

            “I focus on a light in plenty of time to adjust my speed in an effort to avoid making”

            I TRY to do this, but while this may work in CA, not in NJ! There are so many old-style highways (the ones with teh famous jug-handles), with lights at all those intersections.
            There is no coordination of those lights at all, even at the same time on a different day, there is no pattern.
            Not only does one leave at a green light, only to get to the next one when it turns red (speed limit plus 10-25%),
            only to have someone moron move into the well-calculated gap ahead, and ruin that.

            Or you will have one nice driver in the left lane passing a car in the next lane at about 0.5mph faster.

            And agreed, the 911 driver going 55mph in oblivio mode is the biggest waste of all. Only consolation around here is that his 30-aspect ratio tires (and the 19″/20″ wheels too) get to meet our potholes a lot

  27. Tinsley Grey Sammons
    May 18, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    “Or you will have one nice driver in the left lane passing a car in the next lane at about 0.5mph faster.”

    Formation Flyers. They should be subjected to a skillfully and enthusiastically applied knout.

    tgsam

    • Chris T.
      May 18, 2012 at 4:56 pm

      I fantasize about a 007 under-headlight-mounted disintegration beam:
      it would lighten the earth by about 3750#: 3400 for the car and 350 for the lone driver

      • methylamine
        May 18, 2012 at 5:31 pm

        I fantasize about a side-mounted retractable missile pod, to launch K-, X-, and Ka-band seeking missiles.

        Light me up with radar will you? Well son I’ll light you up right back!

        ‘Twould test the commitment of the revenuers for sure.

        • Jean
          June 5, 2013 at 5:03 pm

          With you on that one….
          Need to follow the AF trick, though – they found that Iraqi radar stations would turn on the radar “randomly,” to get a picture to shoot at. Once launched, the SAM would track the airplane on it’s own, but it needed an initial “There he is!”
          Then, they’d shut back down, and the anti-radar missile had no target.

          So they developed a hybrid-type of system. It would lock on to the enemy radar, figure out the location, and then go TO THE LOCATION if the radar went off. :-D

          We need th same, with instant-on radar. And we need to make it navigate around other objects along the way – don’t want to kill the non-Clovers in the area (though collater-damage-Clovers are OK, they DO defeat the missile’s purpose.) :-D

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