Thank Uncle For The New (and $40k) COP-Spec Taurus SHO

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It’s getting harder to pick out cop cars in a crowd – and very soon, it’s going to get much harder still.

Also, a lot more expensive for us – ticket-wise and otherwise.

You can thank Uncle, too.

The old standby – Ford’s Crown Victoria – is being retired from the force. The last civilian-available Vic was sold in 2011. It could not make the CAFE cut – soon to go up to 35.5 MPG average in 2016 – so Ford cut it from the lineup. A few remainders were sold after 2011 – only to police. But the end of the line has arrived at last – and the Vic is now officially history. The ones you see in service will only be in service for another handful of years before they’re attrited into nonexistence.

Among the models replacing the Vic is  a “police interceptor” version of the 2013 Taurus SHO sedan – and the Taurus, being a much more commonplace car, is going to be a lot harder to spot.

And so, avoid.

Vics were easy. They stood out from the crowd, because there are very few full-size American sedans left prowling the streets these days – and also because the Vic has very distinct Old Man . . . er,  Old School profile. Once spotted, you only had to figure out whether it was a cop – or a coot – behind the wheel.

Because only cops – and old coots – drive the Vic.

If you saw a AAA sticker on the bumper – or couldn’t see more than a pair of bony hands clutching the steering wheel at 11 and 1 o’clock – coot, for sure.

If, on the other hand, it had a youngish guy behind the wheel – cop, for sure.

But the Taurus? Everyone – anyone – drives them. So, it’s going to be harder to spot the cop version. Which means, it’s going to be easier for them to nab us for “speeding” and other non-crimes.

It is also going to cost us in another, less visible way.

The Vic’s price new in 2011 (last time it was available) was $26,950. Mind, that’s for a full-size, six-passenger car with a V-8 engine. It’s about what you’d pay to get into a new V-6 Camry. (Or mid-level, non-SHO Taurus).

Ford could sell them so cheaply because the Vic was a simple (and ancient) platform that cost relatively little to manufacturer and whose R&D and tooling costs had been amortized years and years ago.

The twin-turbo, AWD Taurus SHO is neither simple nor cheap to make – which is why the civilian version lists for $39,200 – about $13k more per car than the Vic. That’s money that will come out of our hides – when the local cop shop decides it’s time to upgrade. If your sheriff  buys say six of these units, that’s almost another $80k in budget line-items that your (and my) property taxes will have to cover.

Plus, probably much more in the way of down-the-road costs, too.

The full-frame, RWD Crown Vic was tough. It could take a lot of abuse – including, for instance, running up over curbs or running into deep potholes. And if something did break, it was – usually – fairly cheap and easy to repair. The Vic could be kept going for a long time, and for not much money. This is a big part of the reason for its success as a cop car. And as a taxi, too.

The SHO is orders of magnitude more complicated than the Vic. Instead of a simple, proven V-8 that is known to be capable of going 300,000-plus miles with no more than routine service – the SHO’s got those two turbos and a pair of intercoolers. The turbos alone probably cost more than an entire ready-to-go crate replacement 4.6 V-8.

The cop SHO is also all-wheel-drive – vs. simple (and immensely durable and strong) solid-axle rear drive that’s in the Vic. It’ll be interesting to see what happens when these lighter-duty SHOs pop a few curbs – and how well they stand up to almost 24-7 duty cycles that include spelunking crater-like potholes.

And when they do break – guess who’ll be paying to fix ‘em? Or – worse – replace ‘em?

Which means, there’ll be even more incentive for revenue-based “law enforcement.”

Ka-ching!

Meanwhile the turbo V-6 SHO’s gas mileage is hardly better than the V-8 Vic’s: 17 city, 25 highway vs. 16 city, 24 highway. But because the Taurus is sold with other, more fuel-efficient engines – including a turbo four (not used in the cop version) its overall CAFE numbers will be acceptable – or at least, more acceptable. The Vic, on the other hand, was always sold with a V-8 under its hood.

That’s what made it CAFE-unacceptable.

So instead of a full-size, simple – and fairly inexpensive – car, cops will shortly be driving – and we’ll be paying for – a fleet of smaller (mid-sized), much more complicated and far more expensive cop cars that will be used to fleece us even more fiercely . . . because of federal edicts that have made it impossible for Ford to continue building a car like the Crown Vic.

But wait, there’s more!

The cop Taurus, in addition to being less easy to spot – and vastly more expensive to buy and maintain – is also going to be a lot harder to get away from.

The cop-spec Vic was pretty much the same Vic Grandpa drove. It had a few heavy-duty components, but where it counted – under the hood – it had the same basic (and pretty wimpy) 4.6 V-8. Just 239 hp – and no balls at all. The “police interceptor” version – with “performance” exhaust – got up-rated to 250 hp. It still needed 8-plus seconds to get to 60. Not much of a challenge, if you were so inclined… .

Well, the new Taurus SHO Police Interceptor is packing 365 hp – and can get to 60 in just 5.8 seconds. It’s also much faster on top – with a reported top speed well over 150 MPH. The Vic couldn’t do 150 without a JATO rocket strapped to its roof. The AWD will make it capable of effective pursuit in poor weather, too.

This unit will also have the latest version of what they called SCMODS in the old Blues Brothers movie. You know: State, County, Municipal Offender Data System – SCMODS. Only this is for real and includes such techno creepiness as automatic license plate readers. The better to ticket you with, my pretty.

The cop version of the SHO has some other features the civilian model doesn’t, including “ballistic” (bullet-resistant) door panels and structural reinforcement that make it able to withstand being rear-ended by another car doing 75 MPH. This means the cop car SHO probably costs more than the $39k civvy version of the SHO – the exact reverse of the deal with the old Vic, which sold for less than the civvy Vic, because it (the cop car) usually had less equipment than the Vic Grandpa drove.

This new cop car SHO also has something else Ford won’t sell you or or me: A simple, mechanical key. No transmitter fob! It “…does not have a microchip, so replacement cost of the key is only what you’d pay for a key at the local hardware store,” croons Ford PR.

Well, at least the keys are cheap.

But of course, we’ll be paying for them, too.

Throw it in the Woods?

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eric

Author of "Automotive Atrocities" and "Road Hogs" (MBI). Currently living amongst the Edentulites in rural SW Virginia. 

  162 comments for “Thank Uncle For The New (and $40k) COP-Spec Taurus SHO

  1. BrentP
    September 19, 2012 at 10:30 pm

    One of those could make a fine Bluesmobile when they are retired.

    That said the ‘vic has been a dead car walking for years. It should have been replaced by three or four real generations by now. However CAFE made it silly to put much money into it. CAFE finally killed it.

    Cops around here aim their headlamps up to intentionally blind drivers they are following to disguise they are cop cars. Once someone figures it out it’s a dead give away a cop (or someone driving a retired cop car) is behind me at night. Doesn’t matter what make or model. Somewhere on clovercam I think I put my video ‘blinded by the light’. Where I was blinded by a police SUV with the headlamps so aimed, just from front this time.

    http://clovercam.com/?p=73

    • MoT
      September 20, 2012 at 12:07 am

      When some asshole comes up behind with their high-beams I aim the rear view mirror back at them.

    • September 20, 2012 at 10:55 am

      I dunno, man!

      Would you want a 100k twin-turbo Tore-Ass? Not me! Turbos, intercoolers… great for performance… but long-term durability? I’ve yet to see one (a turbo’d car) that’s got more than 75k or so on it that’s not starting to show obvious signs of getting tired and loose. Especially if those 75k are hard miles – which they will be. (Think: How many older EVOs or STis or Eclipes or 3000GTs do you see out there? These cars typically are junk by seven or eight years….)

      And the repair costs? God help you! Then there’s the AWD….

      The Vic?

      The basic platform/driveline is simple, sturdy and easily repaired. That rear axle, for example, ought to last 20-plus years, easily. So also the V-8. And rebuilding the V-8 is a snap. Or, just drop in a new/rebuilt one.

      • BrentP
        September 20, 2012 at 4:32 pm

        aren’t some taxi companies hunkering down with as many vics as they can get their hands on? The crown vic is like a mustang presently, infinitely rebuildable due to a long history, a following, and lots of parts on the market. It was not financially viable to do on a fleet basis because new ones weren’t all that much. But given replacement cost now I think in taxi duty the vic may stick around longer. What costs less? A replacement car or just rebuilding the crown vic?

        • MoT
          September 20, 2012 at 5:58 pm

          In places like NYC I wouldn’t be surprised if the totalitarian Bloomberg didn’t pass another diktat enforcing the use of smaller displacement engines/cars. As if he really gave a damn.

        • September 20, 2012 at 6:16 pm

          Yup, they are.

          And of course, so long as the body/frame are sound, these cars are almost infinitely rebuildable, too.

      • MoT
        September 20, 2012 at 5:53 pm

        I remember what G. Gordon Liddy said on his radio show about ten years ago when someone asked what kind of car he recommended for his kids. Gordons answer? “Get a Vic!” All that steel up front helps with a collision. Get yourself a tiny car and expect big injuries. If I couldn’t get a Vic for the kids I’d certainly get any “granny” car like a Park Avenue. Something with mass, and well cared for low miles. It may not be the prettiest but who in the hell cares.

        • September 20, 2012 at 6:10 pm

          I agree with the G-man!

          (Did his show a couple of times back in the day, too.)

        • Bill Jones
          September 23, 2012 at 1:20 am

          Might be the only true thing the neo-con piece of filth ever said.

          • MoT
            September 24, 2012 at 12:06 am

            LOL! I agree since it’s the only thing I remember.

          • rEVOLutionary
            September 24, 2012 at 6:21 pm

            Not the only – someone once called in and asked him about handguns (for self defence). He answered that, as a convicted felon, he could not legally own a handgun. But Mrs. Liddy owned several, and stored 1 of them on his side of the bed.

      • justin
        September 20, 2012 at 10:56 pm

        You wont be seeing many AWD twin turbo Taurus’es as cop cars. Way too expensive.
        You will be seeing alot more Chargers now.

        I know lots of departments that chose the Vic over the Charger because the Vic was $1,700 cheaper.

        If your small department buys 10 new cars a year, that $1,700 upcharge means you can only get 9 Chargers instead of 10 Vics,

        No department is gonna be shelling out $40K for a tein turbo AWD Taurus, is a Tahoe cheaper than that?
        Or they will try the regular tiny engine FWD Taurus, till they find out how fragile they are, even with Ford installing reinforced subframes on the front and back of the cop taurus, which is basically an admission from Ford that the civilian version is wimpy and weak.

        You may see a few decked out AWD turbo tauruses, bought because Ford sold them really cheap to get a few on the road, or leased really cheap, but I doubt Ford will sel as many Tautus’es to police depts as Chevy sells Tahoe/Yukons .

        basically Ford is just handing the police fleet market over to GM and Chrysler, just like they gave up on the Ranger, AFTER, GM cancelled their small trucks, and Toyota made the Tacoma so large its no longer a mini truck.The rest of the world gets the crew cab diesel 5 speed 4WD Ranger, but not us.

        Kinda like the last Focus, the one Ford was selling in the states was the previous generation that Ford had STOPPED selling in Europe, Ford sells the latest and greatest everywhere but here. We get the leftovers, yesterdays news in the rest of the world.

        • September 21, 2012 at 10:19 am

          Hi Justin –

          The Charger’s got a problem: It’s not going to make the CAFE cut. In current form, it comes only with V-6 and V-8 engines. Unless Chrysler redesigns it – and sells a version (the mass market version) with a “fuel efficient” turbo four or some such – the car is going extinct. People are still generally unaware of the effect 35.5 MPG CAFE is going to have on the new car market – let alone 54.5 MPG. Wait and see.

          GM (and Ford and Chrysler) may get an exemption from CAFE for their cop cars – if they only sell them to cops, as GM is doing with the RWD/V-8 Caprice.

          • swamprat
            September 21, 2012 at 12:28 pm

            You’re right. People have no clue about CAFE and its effect on the car market. Of course, us in the know are aware that cars are already getting smaller engines and also that cars are getting slower. Car companies are going to have to do some creative juggling to get those numbers to meet 35.5 mpg. It took an act of congress in 2007 to raise CAFE standards, yet the Obama administration summarily incresed that number to 55 mpg by 2025. There is no way that target will be met. Period. Unless the future is Electric. There is no doubt it will be super slow.

          • September 21, 2012 at 12:30 pm

            My Lexus RX450h review will be up shortly – it gets into this stuff in some depth…

          • Shazaam
            September 22, 2012 at 5:19 am

            The charger has another problem other than CAFE to worry about.

            Government motors aka Chrysler, retired all the engineers who were worth anything. And as a result, government motors now has a “situation”.

            The fuel pump acts as a 120-140 watt fuel heater in the tank, and some young (government) engineer made some changes that result in the fuel system delivering no flow at the new, higher system pressure after a couple hours of running in warm weather….

            I’m hoping more cops buy the government motors solution. They are the ones most likely to suffer this fault.

            Remember kiddies, government employees don’t make mistakes, so there won’t be a recall.

          • September 22, 2012 at 11:26 am

            The long term plan is for all of us to be contained in cities (Agenda 21) and for cars to be something only for the elite. But that will only be like a countess chair to tool around in the city with, as they use helicopters to get to their mansions in the country where we won’t be allowed to go. The CAFE is not stupidity or poor wisdom, it’s social engineering and making cars expensive through a CAFE is more like a tax that, like many taxes, are geared towards changing behavior.

            The Mad Max car was “the last of the V8 Interceptors”, but this was because civilization collapsed. In the real world, the real collapse is not from lack of government or collapse of the state, it’s caused by the state. We are not going to “go Mad Max”, we are already getting there, and there won’t be guys with purple mohawks killing you for gasoline, it will be guys in uniforms.

        • Bill Jones
          September 22, 2012 at 11:41 pm

          My local Filth is using Chargers.

          They like the aggressive look, of course.

        • methylamine
          September 23, 2012 at 3:45 am

          @Doktor Jeep:

          Agenda 21 is the mop-up phase of the NWO’s takeover–glad you pointed it out.

          If you haven’t read “The Hunger Games”, it’s worthwhile at least as a highly accurate dystopian novel that describes pretty much precisely what Agenda 21 plans for us.

          That is: being confined to mega-cities, living in postage-stamp apartments, walking or bicycling to “sustainable” jobs in a “sustainable” society. Meanwhile, the country-side is off-limits to the serfs.

          It’s hard to focus on any particular threat, when the Elites’ plans are hitting us from so many fronts. But this one is worth battling.

          If you live in a small community, you are the target. Get to your town hall or small city council meetings, and face these bastards down. Rockefeller- and UN-funded flunkies are showing up everywhere taking over small town with “sustainable development” plans–the euphemism for “get off OUR land”.

          The Elite think it’s all theirs, and we’re trespassing.

          We’ve decided not to expatriate. We’re buying a country place and when the time comes, we’ll defend it.

          Trouble is, they don’t come weapons drawn…at first. They come with waves of mealy-mouthed snot-nosed snivelly little bureaucrats and kill you with a thousand papercuts. You have wetlands. You have “nuisances” (that a neighbor, anonymous, reported). There’s an endangered species. You’re being rezoned. You’re being eminent domained.

          Fighting it takes time and money–which they have plenty of, having stolen it from YOU.

          At some point, these country people are going to fight back when they’re so impoverished they have nothing left to lose.

          • Jean
            June 7, 2013 at 8:47 pm

            Their mistake is waiting that long.
            Rational people have a MAJOR problem: They don’t understand that the enemy is NOT rational.
            WE don’t want to control others; therefore, we cannot understand why others WOULD want to control others.
            WE don’t want to commit murder, either; why is it so hard, in the post Jeffrey Dahmer, Post Manson, Post (all the others), world – to comprehend SOME PEOPLE GET OFF ON MURDER?
            It’s the same thing each time, and it’s “only” a small cost. Until you realize over 50% of what you’ve worked for is supporting others.

            We MUST be proactive, and work alone, but we must FACE this leviathan, and make it too costly for the control-minded – who are sociopaths, BTW – to continue. If they won’t do what is right, they must be terminated.
            END.
            OF.
            STORY.

            Otherwise, we WILL soon wake up slaves in our own home.

            Can’t get there right now – these people close off sites faster than I can open them – but I will find and post back a URL to a very important page, detailing that the revolution ALREADY OCCURRED, as Aristotle noted: the revolution ioccurred within the form. The terms and appearrances were co-opted and corrupted. The New Deal was the actual revolution.

            Looking back, I believe that individual nailed it – and I remember being taught history, and guiess what?! “New Deal” SAVED AMERICA!!! YAY FREEDOM!!! RAH RAH SIS BOOM BAH!!
            And I was in a private school…. And that was mid-80s. These days, the kids are probably taught that the New Deal CREATED America, or something like that.
            After all, our founding fathers were terrorists, and evil white males, who were slave owners and property owners, and wanted to enrich themselves at the cost of the proletariat, dontcha know, Tvarich?

            How there is ANYONE sane here (shut up, peanut gallery) is a miracle.
            Gordon Libby wrote about it, as did Larry Elder – and oddly enough, I heard Michael Nutter echoing similar sentiments as Bill Cosby did, a decade prior. Bill Cosby was a Conservative, though, and was only black on the outside, of course. He was an OREO… WHITE inside…
            But I guess even Democraps can realize that if blacks don’t act like n*ggers and porch-monkeys, they won’t be TREATED like n*ggers and porch-monkeys.
            And it doesn’t make them WHITE to actually WORK, LEARN, or make a life for themselves, that does NOT involve dealing drugs or playing sports.

      • ronin1972
        September 22, 2012 at 1:27 pm

        Eric,

        You obviously are not aware of half the cars in Europe then, most VW’s alone are turbo either gas or diesel, I currently own two turbo vehicles both over 180k miles and the only thing I have had to replace was a Alternator and a starter.

        • dom
          September 22, 2012 at 1:35 pm

          You do understand what SHO stands for right?

          That this is smaller engine and puts out over 100 more hp than the eight cylinder (total 365 hp)?

          Ever seen how cops stab that gas pedal?

          • BrentP
            September 22, 2012 at 5:05 pm

            The idea of Illinois state troopers and other aggressively driving cops having more horsepower is just a disaster waiting to happen. The limitations of the vic and caprices should bring about a self preservation mode…. but something that doesn’t put some ‘back off’ into them may really turn out dangerous.

          • September 22, 2012 at 5:11 pm

            Thankfully, the SHO is still hopelessly out of its depth against something like my 1200 cc Kaw!

          • Max Power
            September 22, 2012 at 7:07 pm

            I was thinking the same thing as BrentP. Cops suddenly given the increased HP and AWD will be literally an accident waiting to happen, like in the 1990s when people bought their first 4WD SUVs without learning the limitations on icy roads.

          • September 22, 2012 at 7:09 pm

            I’m inclined to agree. Despite the cheerleading you see on shows like COPS, most cops are not particularly good drivers. There’s a myth out there that they’re invincible. Trust me, they’re not. Just as many cops can’t shoot straight, either.

            It’s going to be interesting!

        • September 22, 2012 at 2:53 pm

          Hi Ronin,

          I’m well-aware of that. However, bear in mind the SHO has two turbos and is a high-performance model that will be run hard, continuously. That sort of service is hard on any car – and can’t be compared with civilian-use economy-type driving such as you’re referring to.

      • September 22, 2012 at 5:53 pm

        A few points about the Vicky. I currently own 4 of them (and two Lincoln Town Cars which are the same thing, mechanically). The rear ends do not last 20 years. They last 180,000 miles until the axle bearings wear out. Then you have to replace the axles (a relatively cheap job). The engine is a V-8, but is it anything but cheap and easy to fix. The dual overhead cam V-8 design makes the valve train very difficult to remove for a mere shade tree guy. It is very time consuming and expensive to rebuild the heads or do a ring job. Lucky thing is, if you don’t over heat it, you can get 450,000 miles on the engine before it starts burning oil. (It will leak from the main seals long before it starts burning oil). And the replacement for those seals is very straight forward. New engines cost more than the value of the vehicle, so if the engine blows up, or is burning too much oil, unless you have a spare from a wreck, throw the car away.

      • September 22, 2012 at 6:26 pm

        I think your claims about turbos are unfounded. I’ve never had any issues with them on four different vehicles.

        I own multiple diesels right now, none of which have less than 100,000 miles on them. They all have turbos, and these haven’t been a problem. Modern turbos have lines for oil and water cooling–so even the old-fashioned process of delaying shut down to avoid coking is unnecessary. My Jetta TDI has been reprogrammed for performance and gets regular workouts with 240,000 miles on the clock. Even with the lifespan and hard use on Indiana backroads, I’ve never dropped below 40 mpg and this things runs very well.

        I’m a (small “L”) libertarian, too, but I don’t confuse/equate that with being afraid of technology. Even though my Suburban conversion effort uses a mechanically-injected Isuzu.

        • September 22, 2012 at 6:53 pm

          Well, we’re going to see!

          Bear in mind, also, that 100k is small potatoes for a fleet vehicle (cop car, taxi, etc.). And also that your 100k is normal civilian use – not hard (and 24/7) cop use. Hammer the thing for 100k and – again – let’s see… .

          It’s not about being “afraid of technology” (your assertion).

          The main (and indisputable) point is the much higher up-front costs – to be paid for by us.

    • justin
      September 20, 2012 at 10:41 pm

      The vic was unable to pass the new crash requirements

      And they wern;t that safe for being such a big car.

      I saw a Toyota Avalon hydroplane and do a header with a Crown Vic, driver in the Avalon was bruised and cut, but walked away,

      Took over 2 hours to cut the seriously injured deputy out of the Vic.

      • methylamine
        September 21, 2012 at 1:04 am

        Why’d they cut him out?

      • BrentP
        September 21, 2012 at 4:05 am

        What new crash requirements?

        Also the vic is late 1970s under the skin. That’s the level of engineering knowledge in it besides updates and fixes here and there. It should have been redesigned a few times since but instead it just got facelifts. Mustang is the next ford market segment with the fewest updates.

        The problem with judging individual collisions is that they are individual collisions.

        • justin
          September 21, 2012 at 11:07 pm

          Side curtain air bags, knee air bags,

        • Bill Jones
          September 22, 2012 at 11:44 pm

          “That’s the level of engineering knowledge in it”

          That’s about the level of engineering knowledge in me, too.

      • September 21, 2012 at 10:24 am

        Justin,

        The last Vic (2011) received 5 Star NHTSA ratings across the board.

        Remember: This is relative to other full-size cars.

        The Vic is one of the most crashworthy modern cars on the road.

        CAFE (and declining buyer interest) is responsible for its demise.

        It had become – basically – an old person’s car. Or a cop car.

        The market – leaving aside CAFE – has redefined “luxury.” Luxury used to be synonymous with big, cush cars like the Vic (and Town Car and Cadillac DeVille, etc.) But – for whatever reason, marketing or changing tastes – luxury now means luxury-sport. Most buyers want “cockpits” – and bucket seats. Not column shifters and bench seats.

        If CAFE did not exist, it’s likely the Vic would have been redesigned to reflect modern tastes – and become something like the Pontiac G8.

        But given CAFE, Ford reasoned – rightly – that the concept (mass market large car with a V-8) isn’t viable any longer. So, the car was cancelled.

        • September 22, 2012 at 6:10 pm

          Well, call me old, but I still like the Vicky. It’s probably the best car Ford ever built.

          • September 22, 2012 at 6:57 pm

            Me too!

            I am sad to see it go; I was sad to see the TC go.

            I like big, boozy old-school sedans. Too bad not enough others do… In my opinion, the whole “sporty” thing has become more than a little absurd.

            I see all these high-powered cars, riding on 18 and 19 inch wheels with low aspect ratio tires, set up to do 0-60 in 6 seconds, 150 on top and corner like Corvettes…. putting along at just under (or slightly over) the speed limit, braking well in advance of even the slightest curve, probably never once being taken over 100 MPH in their entire lives….

          • scawarren
            September 23, 2012 at 6:48 pm

            I understand, I’m sad to see the Vic go too. It was the last distant cousin of what I drive daily- a 96 Fleetwood Broughm Cadillac! Ilove my Cadi but I don’t care for anything Cadillac put out after 1996.

  2. Brandonjin
    September 19, 2012 at 10:34 pm

    I saw one of these for the first time last week. Great looking car though!

    Train yourselves to release the pedal at the sign of: Black or White Crown Vics, Tauruses, Impalas, Chargers, and Grand Cherokees… Any common others?
    I have yet to see a Caprice in person.

    It’ll be much easier to ENFORCE laws with this car. It’ll also be much easier for cops to blow by me on the interstate, with thier 365 hp…

    • Mithrandir
      September 20, 2012 at 12:01 am

      Caprice used to be very common. Today it is very rare (at least in the mid-Atlantic).

      • September 20, 2012 at 10:49 am

        Yup – the full-size, RWD Caprice is long gone. But – GM is building a cop-only RWD/V-8 Caprice based on the now-defunct Pontiac G8….

    • September 20, 2012 at 10:54 am

      It is getting tougher to pick them out – because there are now so many models, and many of these models are mass market models.

      They’re also using the new Explorer, fyi -

      • September 20, 2012 at 4:11 pm

        Whenever I suspect an undercover car is behind me, I look carefully in the grill area for any sign of hidden lights. The one thing about cop cars is they will always have those lights and they usually hide them in the grill.

        But I’m sure eventually they will start embedding these blue light shit bulbs into the actual headlight and sidemarker assemblies sooner or later…if they’re not already.

        • methylamine
          September 20, 2012 at 5:24 pm

          I look for the “exempt” on the license plate.

          After all, the Exalted Ones don’t pay vehicle “registration”–they own them in allodium, and have the true titles.

          We just rent our cars.

          If you have any doubt, stop registering “your” car some time…and find out who really owns it.

          • BrentP
            September 20, 2012 at 5:47 pm

            Stop registering it and try to drive on the road. Kept in your own locked building and the powers that be forget about it.

          • Strider55
            September 22, 2012 at 3:49 pm

            Here in FL most govt. vehicles (including cop cars) have yellow plates. FHP plates are white with a slight blue tinge. However, true unmarked cop cars have the same standard plates as normal people’s vehicles, making them that much harder to recognize.

            Still, I doubt if the various law enforcement agencies are willing to shell out extra for specialty plates, of which there are more than 100 here. So if you see a vehicle with a specialty plate, you can be sure it isn’t a cop at the wheel.

          • BrentP
            September 22, 2012 at 4:52 pm

            Man Illinois unmarked cars have passenger plates. Of course this contribution to crimes done by people pretending to be police goes unrecognized. It also can anger a real cop if a driver doesn’t immediately pull over but instead looks for a safe place with people because of concern it may be a fake cop. So the fake cops can easily victimize people.

          • September 23, 2012 at 6:56 am

            I don’t know if it’s still like that, but the British approach was that a vehicle didn’t need to be registered just because it was a vehicle, it only needed to be registered to be used on public roads. That meant that some people had vehicles they never registered, typically tractors that could always be kept entirely on large farms. And, of course, some roads weren’t public because they hadn’t been “adopted” by the local council; I don’t know if that exempted vehicles that used those roads (but, of course, they were unlikely to form a network; on some Scottish islands, maybe?).

          • September 23, 2012 at 10:30 am

            That’s still the case in some areas of the US (my area, for example). But my area is rural – farm country. In the suburbs, it’s often “the law” that all vehicles – even those kept inside a a garage on private property and not used on public roads – must be registered. And “the law” also typically requires that all registered vehicles be insured on top of this. This places quite a burden – a very unreasonable one – on hobbyists. They’re compelled to spend a good bit of money to register and insure project cars (even parts cars). The object seems to be precisely that – to discourage people from keeping old cars, or even second cars.

            I am grateful that – so far – such bullshit has not seeped as far out to the hinterlands as my current location.

          • BrentP
            September 23, 2012 at 7:13 pm

            There is often no law requiring registration but it is enforced as if there were. The clovers cannot fathom why someone would store a perfectly operable car and never take it off their property. So they assume that the registration has simply not been paid.

          • Bill
            September 23, 2012 at 10:52 pm

            Here in a far northwest suburb of Chicago, approx. 50 miles from the city, the local “code enforcer” drives around the neighborhood looking for “infractions”. I had lost my front plate (required in this God – forsaken hell hole) on a snow bank. I received a letter from the town fining me $150.00 for having a non registered vehicle in my driveway. I had to call and explain I had lost my front plate and had not received the new one from my benevolent masters in Springfield to get out of paying the extortion. And, he did come around again a few weeks later to make sure I had gotten my new front plate.

          • methylamine
            September 24, 2012 at 2:38 am

            @Bill–

            roving enforcers? God that’s a nightmare, I knew Illinois was crap but your story brings it home.

            I wonder if you could use the same technique I did with our roving property-tax “assessors”? I chewed one out when I saw him driving around our neighborhood. Probably made zero difference, but perhaps he was shamed; certainly satisfied me.

            If enough people scorned these low-lives, the resulting turnover would gum up the works.

          • Bill
            September 24, 2012 at 4:57 pm

            @methylamine – The problem is they do it during the week when most people are at work so you don’t see them, you get a letter in the mail. I can’t believe they pay goon to drive around looking for violations.

            Just after I moved into my house, I got a letter from them telling me I had 30 days to put my address on the front of my house or I would be required to pay an escalating fine for every day I didn’t have the numbers up. The letter cited the particular code I was in violation of, the size the numbers had to be and that the color had to be in stark contrast to the color of my house so they could be read from the street. The fact that I listed several homes that were also lacking the address numbers and in violation mattered not. They caught me and I had better comply or face their wrath. We were seriously thinking about moving over the border to Wisconsin when the housing cash put an end to that.

      • September 22, 2012 at 6:17 pm

        In Arizona, the state police (DPS) have been using unmarked Ford F-150 crew cabs for highway enforcement. They don’t have to chase you down. You can’t outrun a radio. Besides if you DO try to run, nowadays, the cops will probably kill you when they catch you.

        • September 22, 2012 at 6:56 pm

          Depends where you are …

          Provided they didn’t get your license plate – and provided you can get out of their sight and stay out of their sight – it is still quite possible to beat the radio. The key is getting the drop on ‘em. Don’t stop; don’t slow down – hit it and fucking go, if you mean it. Put as much ground between you and the oinker as you can and then – disappear. Get off the road and hide. Stay hidden – for awhile. Creep home later.

          I speak from experience. Not bragging. Just saying…. it can be done.

          • scawarren
            September 23, 2012 at 6:52 pm

            Just curious, what state where you in?

          • methylamine
            September 24, 2012 at 2:34 am

            @scawarren–

            Worked for me in Texas.

            No positive ID, no case…just be sure you have a good poker face if they do pick you up later with a vehicle description.

            I wouldn’t try it in a red Ferrari; a white BMW that looks like every other 4-door sedan, less risky. A bike? No problem–those plates are smaller than the fine print on ObummerCare and only an exceptionally educated pig can distinguish bike models–good odds.

          • Johnny G
            September 25, 2012 at 8:31 pm

            I’m doin’ alright, outran the cops 5 times. Got caught 3 times!!

          • September 25, 2012 at 9:59 pm

            Haven’t got caught … yet!

          • dom
            September 25, 2012 at 11:46 pm

            Ya’ll know you can save a lot of money on your car insurance by out running the cops!

            Gnomesayin’

          • September 26, 2012 at 10:28 am

            Yup!

            These days, you might as well go for it, if you’re operating above a certain speed. In VA, that speed is anything more than 20 MPH over the posted limit – because that is statutory “reckless” driving and a major bust. If convicted, you will likely have your driving privileges suspended and will absolutely get hit with a huge fine, plus six points on your DMV rap sheet. Expect your insurance to double, if they don’t drop you outright. The “reckless” cite stays on your record for ten years now (IIRC) which means that’s how long you’ll be paying 50-plus percent higher insurance. Thousands of dollars are potentially at stake. You might as well have stuck up a 7-11! They punish you more severely than they do guys who jack convenience stores!

            So, what have you got to lose?

            Very little.

  3. dom
    September 19, 2012 at 11:04 pm

    “Meanwhile the turbo V-6 SHO’s gas mileage is hardly better than the V-8 Vic’s: 17 city, 25 highway vs. 16 city, 24 highway.”

    What a fucking joke. I guess we need to get used to this absolutely ass backward retarded reasoning. Gibbs me a break!

    Fucking SHO Tore Ass..

    • September 20, 2012 at 10:53 am

      It is a joke, all right – but it’s on us.

      Here we are in the middle of the worst economic situation since the 1930s – and police departments all around the country will now be spending $40k on their units vs. $26k for a Vic….

      • Jean
        June 10, 2013 at 2:11 pm

        Well, ya know, they gotta stimulate the “too big to fails” somehow….

        Seriously, we’re in the end stages: Rome had a bachelor tax, too, and rampant prostitution, all documented – BY THEM.
        There are a few bachelor taxes already – there’s talk of it here in the US. IIRC, Sweden’s already done it. And of course, prostitution, though not legal most places, is a de facto reality. (the biggest difference is how you pay her: alcohol and dinner, or straight up cash.)

        Religion’s been in decline for ages now.

        Causality or correllation is irrelevant for the point, too – whether these are the results of empire in decline, or the decline in the empire is the cause of the decadence, doesn’t matter.
        I do wonder, though, if the feudal age is simply being reborn?

        Vision of the future: Imagine a boot crushing down on a human face – forever. (1984)

        • Tor Minotaur
          June 10, 2013 at 2:46 pm

          Though counter-intuitive, morality comes from freedom.

          Worrying about a societies’ “decadence” or it’s church attendance is 180 degrees the wrong direction. Stop measuring these things or trying to influence them whatsoever, that’s the best strategy.

          Rome was big, but in no way, could it have been considered better than Greece. The reason being, it’s relative lack of individual freedom and tolerance.

          I recall the nuns trying to say all Greeks were bad, just because a tiny minority forced sex on small boys and other things they clucked like hens about. That is wrongthink. I highly doubt anything changed in Rome, things like this merely became hidden and most likely much worse due to the intervention of state force. Look at what all that Centralized Force has done to those Priests and Nuns.

          You can’t say there hasn’t been a great deal of technological and social progress since Greece, but I would argue, on an individual level, it has been a terrible non-stop decline for Western society, ever since Greece was over-run and then mockingly copied by the Centrally Coerced Romans.

          I would argue there is little new or improved on a human level since the rise of European Civilization on Crete 5013 years ago until the fall of Alexander the Great 2336 years ago. Wherever there is the greatest freedom, that is where you will find the greatest individuals.

          • Jean
            June 10, 2013 at 3:21 pm

            Tor,
            I think you missed part of what I said, or are echoing me back; I agree that the concern about the outward trappings (IE, church attendance) is meaningless, and measuring them moronic: correllation and causation, as I noted: irrelevant.

            Not so sure about Rome vs. Greece. Greece had the brains, no doubt, but Rome had to army. We know which one won… Right or wrong, it underscores that we must be either Spartans all, or learn to protect our thinkers. (So far we seem intent on persecuting those who think in the West. It’s where John Galt came from, basically – showing that in fact, it’s not a WESTERN thing, but a WORLD thing. The Matrix existed before our country. Which means…) which means, actually, we need to be Thinking Spartans. THAT would be difficult. (sigh)

            I also agree with the long-term decline. It would seem we’re in need of a major purge. (No, I didn’t see the movie this weekend, but I’m planning to – simply to challenge a few minds, that if as billed, “the purge” is a chance for the well-to-do to simply let out their evil (I’d say sadistic) urges, then – how is it particularly different from our current world? The mover and shakers have limos, etc – and if “they” are in a speeding car, it’s not their problem, the ticket goes to the driver. The Driver being a good, cowed, Beta, is a replaceable cog… Just as an example. Quite obviously, the suspension of the law is year-round, in effect, for the Elites, while the rest of us are always subject to the law… Which turns the entire “Purge” concept upside-down. IF the masses are such scum that they need to be placated with violence, why isn’t there a revolution every Purge day? Why does it seem the wealthy are the ones taking advantage of the purge? By sheer numbers, and need for self-preservation, wouldn’t the “worthless” band together, out of necessity, and find a way to combat, ambush, damage, and kill the Elites, instead of being PREY for the Elites? Just seems somewhat… Contrived, and then some. I’d love to have that conversation with a few types of people: the Nun-types, as you mentioned, Tor – who see X as bad, and Y as Good, no nuance, no totality of circumstances, and complete tunnel vision. I’d LOVE to hear their reality paradigm shift without clutching, as Dogbert put it. doing about 120 in 5th and shifting staight into Reverse… :-D The other type is the, I’m Saved because I accept Jesus Christ as my lord and savior! type. I live with one, and I’ve been slowly working on her to wake up from her self-induced ctupor: If you’re a c*nt, you’re spreading misery on earth, J.C. wants NOTHING to do with you: you are NOT following his teachings, you’re revelling in sin, and that means you have NOT accepted him, no matter your words. Applies also to my very-religious Catholic parents who have disowned me because I’m “living in sin.” My sister, BTW, has been “living” (sleeping) at home, but has had a series of boyfriends now… SHE gets a pass. I’m 37, mind, she’s …27? We don’t talk much. _She_ refuses to talk to _me_, BTW. Same thing as the others, I think. She picked a fight for several months living with us, and I told her what would happen if forced to choose – and she forced that choice any way. The other party in that – the girlfriend? She’s been an issue since about day 35, not Day 1 – she was fine until her name was on the deed to the house I put the downpayment on. Neither here nor there, but underscores the “Not Saved” aspect for BOTH of them. I’ll quit rambling now…)

        • Tre Deuce
          June 12, 2013 at 3:42 am

          Reg; ” Imagine a boot crushing down on a human face – forever. (1984)”

          The problem, is, there are not too many ‘Humans’ behind those faces.

          Homo Sapiens will fail because they know that they are not worthy.

          • Jean
            June 13, 2013 at 8:23 pm

            I wonder if that is a Christian legacy?
            Growing up Catholic, going to Parochial schools – my parents wanted me to hav eths ort of education they had received. That seemed to be mostly getting beaten and abused by teachers, most of whom were religious.
            Meantime, besides the fact that I didn’t get a decent education, I wasn’t religious enough, and hadn’t been beaten enough by the by-then mostly lay faculty.

            Learned my lessons well, though.
            If you’re a Piece of SHIT, you’ll be impossible to control, and often get away with anything – up to and including assault.
            If you try and mind your own business, learn, or show your intelligence, the other group, mentioned above, will make your life hell.

            And the “Authorities” will do NOTHING.

            They used to think I’d make a good priest.
            More like an Archbishop of the Sabbat…. And probably Tzimisce at that. Subject a rational mind to torture for long enough, and it breaks. I can’t think of a different word for what happened to me, either – I learned to STFU, because what I said didn’t matter. (As in, where do you want to go to high school? You can pick from THIS Catholic Prep School, or THAT Catholic Prep School, but you can’t go to the local public high school because teh Drugz! This is the same public high school my sister went to about 8 years later. The sister whose first word was NO, and who got her driver’s license at 17, IIRC. I got mine at… 25, maybe? I wasn’t ALLOWED to get it at 17. Or 18 – I was going to college in a city, I didn’t need a car / license. Or at 21… My parents were willing to drive me anywhere, AND STAY WITH ME… GREAT for a teenager hoping to date. Anyway …

            Yeah, I spend too much time feeling sorry for myself. I figure that sort of adds to my core thought: the Church has spent so much time inculcating guilt and “feel good” morality, that it’s forgotten the whole purpose of religion goes BEYOND social engineering. It’s SUPPOSED to connect us to each other and something greater than ourselves.
            Instead, we’re being limited left, right, and center by all these different guilt- and self-hatred-inducing wankers – limited in a spiritual sense, not just legal or even physical sense.
            Isn’t that exactly what we call brain-washing? Isn’t it also what Orwell was writing about in 1984? Making the human mind hate itself as a form of social control.

            And people wonder why I think the human animal should be improved by removing so many from existence… (We tend to weed out only the intelligent these days. True sign of the Clovers/Sheeple winning the war – and their “win” is a loss for all mankind.)

  4. MoT
    September 20, 2012 at 12:02 am

    Today I happened to see the un-friendly fuzz in a full court press to ticket everyone they can. I counted no less than three this morning alone. In those big, black, shiny, and oh so expensive SUV’s. Damn them all to hell!

  5. Datsun 2000 Mark
    September 20, 2012 at 12:16 am

    The Cops should be relegated to driving SUX 6000′s.

    • September 20, 2012 at 10:47 am

      If cop were peace officers and their job involved just that – keeping the peace – then they would not need such cars at all. A basic sedan would be amply sufficient.

    • MoT
      September 23, 2012 at 10:16 am

      References to RoboCop, eh?

  6. Keith Pellig
    September 20, 2012 at 1:48 am

    Eric, as a former Crown Vic driver, I resent your assertion that only geezers drive Crown Vics. I’m in my 20s and drove a Crown Vic all through college. And not a police interceptor model either, a regular LX. I loved it. It really was a pig. But it was very comfortable at all speeds (even over 100), and it does have a V8. The fuel economy was understated for the civilian models. The fleet versions had taller gearing. I would routinely average 24MPG and got 28MPG or more on several long hauls. There is also a sizable market for police interceptors among youths. Otherwise, good article, as usual.

    • September 20, 2012 at 10:45 am

      Hi Keith,

      Hey, I like the Vic too – but you’ve got to admit that it is a Geezermobile. Sure, there are a few people not of the Metamucil Set who drive them. Just like there are some Buick Centurys not driven by people a century old. But the exceptions don’t disprove the rule!

      • Blake
        September 20, 2012 at 11:12 pm

        Hey – didn’t we have the geezermobile discussion way back when, and at that time, Gail was the one who took offense. Eric has already ruled: You may not be a geezer if you drive a Crown Vic (or Gran Marquis), but you definitely drive a geezzermobile.

        • September 21, 2012 at 10:14 am

          Yup!

          And – nothing wrong with it!

          Similarly: I don’t have – and will never have – a sail fawn. I have a good ol’ corded wall phone. $12 at Target, will last forever, always works and I don’t need it to take pictures for me, either.

          Sometimes, old is cool – or at least, better!

          • Strider55
            September 22, 2012 at 4:05 pm

            For emergency purposes away from home a bare-bones “sail fawn” is not a bad idea. Just get a TracFone or other PAYG phone. As long as everything is paid in cash, there’s nothing to connect you to the phone, so privacy is maintained. Also be sure to restrict the phone number to family and closest friends. We got a TracFone a few months ago, and neither of our employers knows about it (and they never will).

          • September 22, 2012 at 5:06 pm

            Yeah, I see that – but, I prefer to go old school and trust to chance. I’ve done it all my life and so far, so good!

          • Jean
            June 10, 2013 at 2:16 pm

            Strider, EVERYONE, note:
            It’s getting so that you CANNOT use cash. places are refusing to ACCEPT cash, and Uncle Shithead wants to be able to account for every dollar you spend.

            I do and don’t care: I resent the whole nosiness, but I rarely carry cash because most places accept cards, and I haven’t had enough cash in my accoutns for almost a decade to even give a damn. I have had less in my account than I get in any given paycheck. I’m not bragging, and I don’t have anything useful as a result of that – it wasn’t by choice – just worked out that way. If I can keep government trash off some active resistor’s backs simply by existing, it’s GOOD TO ME…

            Meaningless overall, but… nothing I could do better. Too tired. World-weary. And no Galt’s gulch in the future, either. :-P

      • Keith Pellig
        September 24, 2012 at 6:32 pm

        Eric: The Vic is a geezermobile just like all Subaru Foresters are driven by lesbians and all Audis by assholes. So yes, I really do agree. But I like to look at things as they are, and not by the collective impression of things.

        • methylamine
          September 24, 2012 at 6:47 pm

          @keith:

          I think that’s a disgustingly bigoted thing to say.

          Everyone knows Foresters are driven by dykes and Audis are driven by faggots.

          You should be ashamed.

          It’s BMW’s that are driven by assholes.

          • September 24, 2012 at 6:49 pm

            Meth, you da’ man!

    • September 22, 2012 at 11:32 am

      When I was in college, my dad let me use his 1977 Lincoln Continental Mark 7 (Cartier Edition). That thing had a 400 cube motor and weighed 6300lbs.

      Guzzler, pig…. but that ride was soft, it once bounced off a guard rail and only scuffed the plastic rail on the bumper, and it got me laid too. :-)

      • September 22, 2012 at 11:38 am

        Glory days!

        My parents had big Oldsmobile 98s – the real ones. Rear wheel drive, 455 (and later 403 and then, the last one, 307) V-8s… magnifico!

        • scawarren
          September 23, 2012 at 6:58 pm

          Diesel right? I would love to find one of them in reasonable condition!

      • September 22, 2012 at 6:21 pm

        You got laid for driving your father’s Lincoln off a guard rail?? there are some WEIRD women with WEIRD fetishes out there….

  7. methylamine
    September 20, 2012 at 2:09 am

    Many of the local Pigazzi in Bellaire and other townships within Houston are driving those Dodge things…the “Charger” I believe it’s called. Oh dear. SO declassé, Buffy, they’re hardly cars at all!

    The Chargers are formidable though; quite a quick car, probably better than the SHO.

    Eric do you think the structural reinforcements, and the mini jail-cell inside, will weigh down the SHO enough to make a difference in performance? And surely the 5.8 0-60 time doesn’t include the fat-assed costumed thug on board?

    May I once again make a pitch for the ultimate driver’s aids:
    1) Valentine One
    2) Laser Interceptor laser jammer–now illegal in Texas, class C misdemeanor with a whopping $100 fine IF they can prove you used it.

    The latter has saved me at least a dozen times. Around Houston laser is pretty much all they use; and this thing renders you invisible, usually all the way to the gun. Although, it is considered unsporting to JTG–Jam To Gun. Better to turn it off after reaching a legal speed…

    …and I have a personal idiot story to share on THAT topic!
    I came over a rise on a local toll road one sunny spring morning at about 120, and the Valentine did that heart-stopping sound it makes for laser. The Laser Interceptor plays an equally cardiac-event-inducing sound, before it announces what type of laser gun they’re using and assuring you with “Jamming sequence, initiated” in the sexiest girl voice you’ve ever heard. My wife hates her.

    So after self-administering CPR, I slowed down briskly and reached to turn off the jammer…

    and clicked it off at about 80mph like a damn fool!

    So yeah. I got written up at 77. For losing my cool.

    I beat it in court later. And I didn’t get tazered for asking the cop if he ever got sick of robbing people on the road. Guess I should be “grateful” for not being nailed at 120, or being tazed.

    • September 20, 2012 at 10:36 am

      There are probably going to be issues with the Taurus – including that it’s really too small for police duty (just like the Charger).

      I have talked with a few cops about this. Spending all day in the front seat of a mid-sized car jammed with cop gear is no picnic. Despite the Vic being slow and old, it is much beloved by cops and will be sorely missed.

      I suspect the Charger will be cashiered for the same reason the Vic has been put out to pasture: CAFE. The Charger comes only with V-6 and V-8 engines, neither of which comes close to making the 35 MPG average cut. Unless Chrysler nixes the V-8 (which it may) and fits the car with a small turbo four for mass-market consumption and a six for cop duty (and limited production civilian use) then it’s done.

      There is going to be a mass die-off of cars that aren’t compacts and which come with V-6 and V-8 engines.

      PS: Which laser jammer doe you use? I am very interested in acquiring one, but there is a great deal of bogus info out there. A knowledgeable recommendation would be much appreciated!

      • methylamine
        September 20, 2012 at 1:48 pm

        It’s called the “Laser Interceptor”.

        http://www.laserjammertests.com/ claims the LI cheated on the number of diodes used–reducing its power.

        But Guys of Lidar and Radar Roy consistently rated the LI top of the heap–Here’s Guys of Lidar’s review, note that the LI does JTG almost every time.

        I can swear to it personally. I’ve had mine for 3 or 4 years and it has never let me down, despite having an out-of-date programming.

        It’s programmed to shoot a specific jamming sequence at every kind of gun out there. When it doesn’t recognize the gun, it makes its best guess and announces it’s an unidentified laser gun…but it still jams it!

        More importantly, unlike the more primitive ones, it doesn’t trigger a “Jammed” code on the sophisticated new laser guns. You just don’t exist, period.

        The best part is it’s so powerful you provide cover for cars next to you too.

        Once in downtown Houston there was the usual ticket-mill set up on a busy street exiting the city. Six pigs, one using laser, two others officiously running out in the road and bugging out their eyes at us evil speeders doing 45 in a 30, pointing them to the side of the road for their slaughter.

        I doubled back and parked in a parking lot with the car’s nose pointed toward them, about ten feet from the street. Judging from the frustrated look of the lasering cop–and his attempts at percussive maintenance on his laser–I was jamming the two lanes next to me.

        After about fifteen minutes of fun I drove off.

        Be aware that it’s “illegal” in many states now, but last I heard it’s a Class C misdemeanor–at least in Texas, and they have to prove you used it…difficult, considering it doesn’t throw a jam code.

        It’s got a “parking distance” function so you can always claim it’s just a parking aid :)_

        • September 20, 2012 at 6:19 pm

          Thanks for the info, Meth – I will be checking into this ASAP!

          • Steve
            September 22, 2012 at 3:29 pm

            Haha…this is funny stuff! Police Officers are trained to estimate the speed of moving vehicles, so when they see a vehicle coming in their direction, they will testify that they first made a visual estimate (usually within +/- 5 mph) of your speed (lets say you are doing 85mph in a 65mph zone)of 85mph..then use either RADAR or LASER to confirm their estimate. A Police Officer does not need to state that they got you on RADAR or LASER…they merely need to state that they made a visual estimate, based on their training and experience, to get a conviction. In many states, you can be convicted of speeding based solely on the officer’s visual estimate of the speed of your vehicle, uncorroborated by devices such as radar or laser. People v. Olsen, 22 N.Y.2d 230. Good Luck!

          • September 22, 2012 at 5:08 pm

            Very true – unfortunately!

            The best strategy is to practice avoidance; to avoid finding yourself in their crosshairs; to run under the radar – literally and figuratively.

            A good radar detector (as well as SA) will greatly reduce your chances of being the fish that didn’t get away…

          • methylamine
            September 23, 2012 at 3:51 am

            @Steve–

            I’ve had two “visual estimate” cases thrown out, $50 bucks a pop to my new favorite law firm, Kubosh. They are savage on those pissant little wannabe-lawyers in Houston’s kangaroo courts.

            They don’t stand up. If you’re worried about a visual estimate case, threaten the prosecutor with a jury trial. It’s expensive for them, and even today’s fluoride-brain-dead juries are iffy when there’s no “irrefutable” laser/radar reading.

        • MoT
          September 22, 2012 at 8:10 pm

          God bless you for your laser “ministrations” on the badged minions.

          • Jean
            June 10, 2013 at 2:23 pm

            Pity the laser ministrations weren’t energy efficient… ZAP and you have well-done pig.

            Eh, we can dream.

  8. Eric_G
    September 20, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Aspen PD drives mostly Toyota Rav 4s in champagne silver. They always are pulling people over.

    Most county sheriff vehicles are Ford “Interceptor” SUVs, or standard Explorers, can’t tell the difference. All sheriff vehicles in the state have the same paint scheme so it’s fairly easy to spot them.

    Colorado Highway Patrol has silver and blue Crown Vics, Chargers, Interceptor SUVs, mostly. Paint is fairly easy to see in the day, nearly invisible at night.

    Rifle PD just bought new Interceptor SUVs and Escapes, black and white with a picture of a rifle (get it! He he!) painted on the side. Very easy to spot.

    Glenwood Springs PD has Interceptor SUVs, all black with black semi-reflective logo paint. Impossible to spot until you’re right on it, even at night. No lightbar, all lights are in the windows. How the hell they get away with this is beyond me.

    I’m seriously thinking of trying to get a ballot initiative started for next election to force cops to have their lights on any time they are pulled over, and require reflective, florescent orange paint over X square inches of the vehicle. I used to work in utility easements and we were required to have cones out and orange beacons running when we were on the side of the road. Sometimes even with proper warning signs and maybe even a flagger if we blocked a lane. All this was for my safety and protection. I’m all in favor of keeping cops safe, and by having their lights on when they are pulled off to the side of the road I’m sure they will be safer.

    If ticketing for speeding is, as they say, to keep us driving at a safe speed, it shouldn’t be an issue, right?

    • BrentP
      September 20, 2012 at 4:41 pm

      It’s very simple. The cop is rarely considered responsible for what happens. If they hang their car three feet in the lane with lights off in the dark and someone hits it, it’s not their fault. Just that simple. If the car catches fire from being rear ended at 70+mph by a truck then that’s the manufacturer’s fault.

      Everything is different when a cop does it.

  9. Blake
    September 20, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    Great points Eric.

    The cop car I miss the most is the Dodge Diplomat. You could spot them a mile away with the grating around the front running / turn signal lights. That was also a time when cops had no tasers, radar was rare, and cops seemed – well – almost human.

    • Boothe
      September 20, 2012 at 5:36 pm

      Blake the cop car I miss the most was the 6-cyl Dodge Aspen the Air Force Security Police were stuck with back in the late 70′s early 80′s. If you were on a bike, the SP was almost better off chasing you on foot! And if you were riding an enduro and knew where the unfenced wooded areas around the base were… ;)

      • MoT
        September 20, 2012 at 5:46 pm

        Oh lordy! How I remember those at my base.

      • September 20, 2012 at 6:11 pm

        Ah, the good ol’ days!

        Remember the cop-car K-Car?

    • BrentP
      September 20, 2012 at 5:50 pm

      There is no better documentation of how cops have changed then the Fox TV show COPS. Sure they are on their best behavior on the show. Yes the show is edited to make cops look good. But the delta, the change, is strikingly apparent if 2012 and 1989 episodes are watched back to back.

    • September 20, 2012 at 6:15 pm

      “That was also a time when cops had no tasers, radar was rare, and cops seemed – well – almost human.”

      Yeah, I remember those days, too. I recall, for example, getting out of my car as soon as I got pulled over for something and walking over to the cop to discuss it. Imagine that today. Overall, they were much more respectful, too. The immediate expectation of submissiveness (including verbally) that’s typical now wasn’t then.

      “Then” being the ’80s… seems like a million years ago.

  10. Downrange
    September 21, 2012 at 1:49 am

    You can’t beat that older Detroit big iron for eating up an interstate. I had occasion to travel 81 today back from a DC meeting, and, naturally, I took my older Park Avenue I bought for the purpose a year ago. The Prius doesn’t really like the big highways, although it does a competent job, but there’s nothing like two tons of sheet metal rolling down the highway at 79 mph. And, it gets nearly 30 mpg, and still has enough get up and go to kick down the tranny and blow away most of the clovers in their pick-em-ups clogging the left lane at one over the speed limit.
    But that Taurus is Sekk-see – looks like the cop cars in Blade Runner! :)

    • September 21, 2012 at 10:08 am

      Amen.

      My father-in-law has a Town Car – marvelous boat! He drives it every year from Oklahoma to here, to visit us. It’s perfect for that kind of duty. I miss their kind – they’re all extinct now.

      In fact, one of my things-to-get is a mid-late ’70s barge – something like an Olds 98 or Cadillac deVille. These are modern enough to drive anywhere (comfortably) but old enough to be free of all the bullshit I despise about new cars!

      • Bill in NC
        September 21, 2012 at 5:54 pm

        Plenty of inexpensive Grand Marqs around.

        Drover one for years until I upgraded to dad’s old Town Car.

        I could drive those to California and back w/o breaking a sweat.

        Contrast that ride with the old AMC-designed Grand Wagoneer we used in the mountains – even on a highway after a few hours I wanted to stop to puke.

        That thing rode like the axle was bolted directly to the frame.

        • September 21, 2012 at 6:39 pm

          Get ‘em while you still can… or while you can still get ‘em cheap, that is!

  11. September 21, 2012 at 9:59 pm

    It should be easy to set up a website describing cars used by cops in any and every jurisdiction. Especially in your home area, there is no excuse for not knowing what brands might be utilized by badge boys.

    Betcha that at the fed level, CAFE requirements will be pretty irrelevant. You will see the alphabet agencies driving big ass SUVs and/or Charger Hemis. Their conspicuous consumption of gas will be one more symbol of their superiority over civilians.

    • Jean
      June 10, 2013 at 2:28 pm

      Yes, conspuicuous consumption… A whole book was written about that, by that title, I believe…

  12. BrentP
    September 21, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    I think the first instance when I ran into government environmental hypocrisy was when I visited a metal stamping company. One of the people working there told me that the best lubricants for a particular stamping process could no longer be used because of environmental concerns, except by the US military.

    And on energy policy the government isn’t about to cut back war or other activities that make the US military the nation’s largest, if not the world’s largest single largest consumer of energy.

    Police vehicles used to stick out. Now they are being made to look more and more like everything else in traffic. Which of course reduces safety if cops are doing something* that fits why we are told they have them around. But it increases revenue from traffic tickets.

    *like responding to a call of a robbery in progress and that sort of thing.

  13. dizznuiz
    September 22, 2012 at 5:39 am

    anyone really interested should check out ebay and used car auctions for the mercury marauder and then do some research. sneaky speed and power. lookmlike one of them.

    • September 22, 2012 at 10:10 am

      I like the Marauder – but (having driven one when they were new) the 4.6 V-8 engine is low on torque for that application. The Marauder wasn’t nearly as quick as the old (V-8/RWD) Impala SS of the ’90s. Plus, you’ll pay top dollar for the Marauder because it’s a collectible car.

      A better choice, in my opinion, would be a former police Vic with the police interceptor package. Much cheaper to buy – and with the money you saved, you can either replace the 4.6 or rebuild the 4.6 with the goods necessary to get the hp and torque up to suitable levels – for example, via supercharging.

  14. Ross Nelson
    September 22, 2012 at 6:44 am

    This just shows us that cop departments have too much money for toys. They don’t need a 365 hp pursuit car, which will be almost exclusively used for traffic accidents and parking tickets anyway. Haven’t cops heard of the radio? It’s pretty hard to outrun near speed of light transmissions.

    • September 22, 2012 at 8:49 am

      Correction, Ross: They have an unlimited supply of our money. These “heroes” can never have enough “resources,” you know.

      • Tor Munkov
        September 22, 2012 at 3:20 pm

        More like hzeroes,where the h is silent. They take our money and turn it into antimoney like a bizarro king midas.
        The more we make the more they take and spend it on destroying everyone and everything that doesn’t want to be Borg.
        LOOK AT WHAT GOVERNMENT DID TO NUCLEAR POWER.
        We have unlimited power on a platter but their hzeroes have a firing squad on speeddial if anyone dares use it to bring about the greatest mankind leap since Ugggh the 1st invented fire.
        Ooooo I might get a skin burn or have some additional mutations.
        A few hundred people we could each pay a billion a year to could all be running super giant nuke plants that could jump start the world economy from 60 trillion to 6000 trillion. Put all the plants in the artic or space or in Chilean copper mines a mile underground.
        For every gutenerg there are a million shysters and liar hzeroes in wait to make sure everyone gets the same slice of shit pie they’ve been getting.. The idea of everyone getting 10 pies and making slicing obsolete is inconceivabe to the official.Fucktardahian clans who,ve been running this Roman Matrix stale bread and crap circus for ever and a diem.

        • September 23, 2012 at 7:16 am

          Sadly, all those locations would make the nuclear power “stranded” (with current technology – once beamed power became practical otherwise practical space power generation wouldn’t be stranded), and only the Arctic offers adequate cooling. But those considerations are why some people are considering small reactors in submerged barges parked a few miles off shore, which could easily feed a grid covering large areas though not all areas.

          • Tor Munkov
            September 23, 2012 at 10:33 am

            Yeah those barges Russia Co in St Petersburg is making can supply enough power for a 1/4 million people.
            It would make a lot more sense if we built 100 of them with maybe 4 times the capacity each. Driving grandmas old air force carrier around at 150 gallons to the mile is pointless
            A megabarge in deep water will be safe from tsunami and earthquake. Plenty of sea water on tap.
            Worse case scenario drop the whole thing to the ocean floor if SHTF..
            Maybe we should split u.s. into east coast and west coast and compete against ourself. Shits gotten embarrsing since soviets left us as the sole stuporpower.

      • September 22, 2012 at 9:32 pm

        And they throw our money around like water. Consider: The Crown Victoria Police Interceptor, when taken care of, will go at least 300k miles before having to have its engine rebuilt. Yet, the police agencies here in Arizona auction these vehicles off when they hit 150k. That’s only HALF their service life. And the tires they put on are very expensive Goodyear Eagles or Firestone Firehawks. These are high performance V or Z rated tires that are only necessary if you are driving very high rates of speed. Standard S rated tires cost about half the price. Not only that, the city garages will pull these expensive speed rated tires off when they have half their tread left. This is asinine. If these municipalities wanted to balance their budgets, they could start by simply keeping the equipment they have until it wears out, and not purchasing unnecessary items, such as speed rated tires for the meter maids’ vehicles.
        I talked to the mayor of Everett Washington one time when he was in my taxi. He told me that it is the powerful police unions that insist on the cop cars being replaced with half their service life left. It is probably the same situation in every other city as well.

        • BrentP
          September 23, 2012 at 4:48 am

          But then there’s still the odd cop or city employee still tooling around in a 1990s Chevy Caprice. They’ve gotten very rare but I saw one still in service, with government plates several months ago. It wasn’t in cop duty configuration so it some sort of municipal vehicle.

  15. graham
    September 22, 2012 at 9:56 am

    Needs a new cigarette lighter though…

  16. Kevin McCune
    September 22, 2012 at 10:19 am

    Eric ,there is a late seventies” Harley Hauler” Cadillac with 48K miles on it,new tires and custom paint job for 3K Plenty of room to sleep in that sucker-the vehicle is at Rockbridge Baths,VA.
    Bureaucracy sucks-Kevin

    • September 22, 2012 at 10:27 am

      Hi Kevin,

      Have you got a link/web page for that Caddy? I’m googling around for it now…

  17. anarchyst
    September 22, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    Earlier this year, a Michigan State Police officer was killed in a rollover accident. In the media reports, no mention was made whether the police officer was wearing a seatbelt.
    I questioned that fact in a reader comment section in a local media article. The “hate mail” (from clovers) I received was tremendous. I was told that I should be ashamed to even ASK if the officer was wearing his seatbelt because he had died in the accident. It is known that most cops do not wear seatbelts because they don’t have to . . . the double standard rears its ugly head.
    In a more recent note, a prosecutor from Oakland County Michigan was recently cited for not wearing a seatbelt after an injury accident. He was only ticketed 3 months after the accident. It was not stated whether “alcohol” was a factor. I wonder?

    • September 22, 2012 at 2:56 pm

      Exactly.

      One standard for us, another for them.

      I did an article a few months back about a CO cop who was caught driving 150 MPH on public roads. No Tazering for him; no wood shampoo. No confetti of felony charges, either. The prick even got to keep his job – and his benefits (though this was contested eventually). Now, I don’t call him a prick for driving 150. I do that, too. But he’s a prick because he does it – while spending his days crucifying Mundanes for doing far less.

    • BrentP
      September 22, 2012 at 5:17 pm

      The masses refuse to look at problems to solve them. They want to feel. They want empathy. So instead of solving problems there are ‘walks’ and ‘recognition days’ and ‘benefits’ and ‘holidays honoring’ and so on and so on. Point out a real problem? A real solution? Oh they get angry. How dare we do it!

      It’s almost if they want people to keep suffering and dying so they can have their events and days and silly emotion invoking jpgs. Oh and the charities to give to so they can show what good people they are. Showing their ‘appreciation’ to a dead ‘hero’ cop is important to them. More important than preventing the next ‘hero’ cop from dying the same way. To prevent the next cop from dying in a crash means objectively looking at things and then their ‘hero’ might look human… like them, fallible. Or worse they may have to confront an institutional problem and risk loosing their faith in an institution.

      It can make a rational person’s head explode.

      Meanwhile? Who’s bad? Those who would like the friggin’ problems fixed already.

      • Jean
        June 10, 2013 at 2:44 pm

        Actually, that’s a GOOD point I’d never really thought into that way.
        The appearrance of the thing becoming more important than the thing itself. Nothing new, just didn’t think of it.

        True in Christ’s time (Pharisees and Sadducees, the hypocrites), doing the public action to f*ck the people behind closed doors.
        (For those of different background, it amounts to Rabbi X stoning a commoner Jew for keeping pigs, then going home and having a ham sandwich behind closed doors.)

        Yes, the claptrap (image) has taken over the reality. Pro Forma performance of charity, contrition, “science” (specifically referring to purchased research, but any biased research qualifies), most “Green” politics, etc: We now have to face the Clovers on this field, too.
        Just shows how (il)(Liberal) [illiberal? or Ill Liberal? Lots of puns waiting there...] we have become as a society, when a Classic Liberal outlook is cornerstone to a conservative (note the lower case) worldview. Out founders were Classical Liberals; modern Liberals are Progressives; Modern Conservatives are just Progressive in a different direction; and those of us who don’t want power and control over others, we’re in the minority, and we just want to be left alone, to take our lumps when we F up, and to be able to do what we want the rest of the time, without interference. But because SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE, MIGHT do something stupid…

        Idunno… Humans seem to have an infinite capacity to be stupid. Maybe we should just have machines take care of us from cradle to grave? Never actualy interract with other beings? Stay inside that coccoon for eternity, let the liquified dead be fed to the living, etc?

        Sick minds out there, we shoudl euthanize them…

        It’s the same as Jefferson’s phrase: those who beat their swords into plowshares shall farm fo those who do not.
        Well, those who refuse to control others will be controlled by those same others. They’re doing it for our own good, because they love us…

        Selfless, aren’t they? Let’s help them be even more self-less.

  18. Jim
    September 22, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Cops are civilians too.

    • September 22, 2012 at 3:02 pm

      And water isn’t wet!

      C’mon Jim – a cop is a cop. He gets special privileges – including virtual immunity from being harassed for actions that us real civilians get harassed for all the time, such as not “buckling up for safety.”

      Cops are exempt from (among other things) gun restrictions that even CC holders must abide by, such as not carrying in establishments where alcohol is served (even when they’re not drinking). They can carry in bars and so on when off-duty. We can’t. Not legally, at least.

      And of course, cops are on the government dole – their income taken out of the hides of actual civilians, to whom the cops owe no obligation to personally protect from harm, I might add.

      • September 23, 2012 at 7:26 am

        I think the point he is trying to make is that they are set up under the principle of being part of civil society (which they are), not part of a military that is deliberately kept apart so as not to overwhelm that civil society – and the point you are making is that, these days, that principle is only respected in name and not in the facts of the ground (which is also true, but not his point). Of course, that means that those who are doing it have forgotten what that principle is for and think it is only an image thing they have to respect to keep the people placid. While the principle is still there in name there is some chance of restoring the practice too, so there is something to his point.

        • September 23, 2012 at 10:22 am

          Yes, agreed.

          One of the truly alarming developments of the past decade or so has been the militarization of civilian law enforcement. The people – and tactics – as well as the equipment.

          Others have argued – and I agree – that military service of any kind should be an automatic disqualification for civilian law enforcement.

    • Johnny G
      September 25, 2012 at 8:49 pm

      My bro in law is a cop, drives 90+ to our property in N MI, gets pulled over shows badge continues to property at 90+. You or I try it we WILL get a ticket!!

  19. Bob Horacek
    September 22, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    Eric,
    I’d like to offer a couple of corrections to your story. Ford stopped listing the Crown Victoria on their website for civilian sale in 2010. The last date to order an Interceptor was 2/28/2011 and the last Interceptor rolled off the line in October of ’11. The MPG ratings that you show are for the civilian version with the civilian rear ends (2.73 final drive ratio I believe), not the Interceptor rears which were 3.42 or 3.27. So the gas mileage is much less. Breaking 20mpg on the highway even with the 3.27 is difficult and around town is about 14mpg. The newer ones, after 2002, would do 140mph, albeit not as quickly as the SHO. It was not the CAFE that killed the Vic, it was the new crash test requirements for crumple zones. The full frame Vic couldn’t meet them. As to durability, the jury is still out but the perception is that no FWD car will ever be as durable as RWD.
    Bob

    • September 22, 2012 at 4:59 pm

      Hi Bob,

      Well, Ford’s web site may have so listed, but the Vic was still available as a 2011 model. I had one (press car) to test drive!

      I doubt a 3:27 (or even 3:42) ring and pinion has as much effect as you suggest because of the steep overdrives that all modern transmissions have. For example, a new Corvette settles down to about 1,800 RPM in overdrive at 70 – and it’s geared pretty aggressively, ring and pinion-wise.

      In any case, let’s assume you’re right. If so, a car that has a tough time “breaking 20 on the highway” and which gets “14 around town” is a non-starter CAFE-wise. Note that even relatively low-volume V-8/RWD cars have been shorn of their V-8s (or the V-8s limited to very low-production models), for example, the Jaguar XF and Hyundai Genesis. Up to now, a V-8 was standard in the Jag; henceforth, the standard engine will be a turbo four – with a V-6 optional. Only the limited production XFR will still have a V-8. Hyundai just announced it is dropping the 4.6 V-8 and henceforth only the limited production R-Spec will get a V-8. This is a trend clearly evident across the marketplace – because of pending CAFE requirements.

      As far as crash test requirements: The Vic received 5 stars from NHTSA in every category, the highest possible scores.

      • Bob Horacek
        September 24, 2012 at 3:55 pm

        Eric,
        I didn’t say that you couldn’t find one, only that Ford had essentially discontinued them on the website and I don’t believe that the public could actually ORDER one after 2010. Used 2011 vics are still available.
        I bought my first interceptor, NEW, in 1989, when you could still order the LX model and put the 55A package on it. Followed up with ordering new Interceptors in 1995, 1998, 2001, 2005, and ordered my last P71 last February 19th, ’11. When I write that it’s tough to break 20mpg even with the 3.27 rears, it’s not from conjecture, it’s from experience. The window sticker on my ’05 listed 21/15mpg, but that’s the perfect world. And as to the 2.73 rears, my old partner with his Licoln Town Car (same motor) used to get 25mpg hgwy. so the final drive ratio does make all the difference.
        I agree that it wouldn’t meet the cafe standards and I’m in even more agreement on the 5-star crash rating (which is one of the main reasons I still drive this wonderful automobile), but what knocked it out as a vehicle was the NEW crash standards for crumple zones.
        Bob

    • September 22, 2012 at 9:42 pm

      I can tell you from experience that from batting around the city of Phoenix, day in and day out in these Vickys: A Crown Victoria gets 19 miles per gallon. That’s averaged between freeways and city streets; congestion and no congestion. We keep the Vickys on our fleet well tuned, with clean air filters. One thing that really helps is to clean the MAF sensor every time you change the air filter. It makes very little difference if you have a police package (P71) or a civilian package.

  20. September 22, 2012 at 6:39 pm

    As long as America’s Swinest drive cars of any sort I’m not concerned. I only grossly speed when on one of my hyper-bikes, and one twist of the throttle will leave any street-legal car standing.

    When the cops start driving ZR-1s I’ll develop some concern, and even those are no match for any number of sport bikes.

    • September 22, 2012 at 6:54 pm

      “America’s Swinest” -

      Brilliant, sir! Top drawer!

  21. farmer Tom
    September 24, 2012 at 2:10 am

    Not trying to help the ticket writing crowd but they would be better off doing what I saw in western Nebraska than buying those Taurus SHO’s.

    Drove across Nebraska on US 20 last month for family vacation. Went to Yellowstone.

    Anyway the Nebraska State Patrol had their symbols slapped on the side of a Dodge Ram Cummins diesel 4×4 crew cab.

    I drive one of those. If I’m careful I can get over 20 mpg, drive at speeds over 80 mph forever and go just about anywhere in any driving conditions.

    I know these trucks well enough to know that if some porker was driving one and gave chase he has the power to catch you and quick if you are driving anything other than a top end sports car.

    I agree with a previous comment that the locals will most likely buy more Tahoe’s and Expeditions than this SHO.

    • September 24, 2012 at 9:47 am

      Those aren’t cheap, either! Base 1500 with gas engine is $30k and you can’t get a diesel in the 1500. $32k to start for the 2500 – before you add the diesel. It adds more than $7k to the MSRP! So, easily $40,000 out the door. And fuel bills? Probably 2-3 times what it costs to feed even the SHO.

      So, don’t encourage them!

  22. Eddie Willers
    September 24, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Well, I can say with some certainty, that the retired Crown Vics will end up south of the border, down old Mexico way, running around as taxis and colectivos for another 15 years. They are often rebuilt, after that, to run on LPG.

    I lived in Tampico, on the Gulf coast, for 9 years and saw lots of late 70′s/early 80′s Vics (and Caprices) with LPG tanks in the trunk, trundling along with seven passengers on the longer ‘colectivo’ routes.

    • September 24, 2012 at 12:50 pm

      Yup –

      Ford once sold them that way new, too.

      Too bad they don’t any longer….

    • Tre Deuce
      June 12, 2013 at 4:23 am

      Some will, but more then a few of the later Vicky’s, are finding their way under 50′s, 60′s, and 70′s, F-100′s, like our project truck and its donor 2003 Vic. Engine, transmission, front suspension/rear end… with brakes, and wiring harness. Power, modern suspension_brakes, OD locking tranny and fuel injection, translates into a quick, good handling, safer old ride with 20+ MPG.

  23. Tim
    September 24, 2012 at 9:06 pm

    I’m actively in the market for a new (used) car. I have 2 small kids that will grow to much bigger kids and i want the car to last 10+ years. I also drive 5 miles to the train station and back for my commute into downtown San Francisco. And then as a grocery getter around town nights and weekend and maybe a 50-100 mile round trip on weekends to see my folks. so I dont put a lot of miles on a car, maybe <10k a year. I also want a big trunk.

    I am sad to see the big American V8 rear wheel 4 door sedan dying a slow death. I have looked at a few used Crown Vics and Mercury Marquis and Lincoln Town cars mostly owned by blue hairs driving to church. I have ridden in plenty that are in service as cabs in San Fran and they all have mileage well into the 200,300 and even 400k range.

    Maybe if i can find a merc maruader or late 90s impala SS cheap…
    i just want cheap mainteneance and repair, i will sacrifce gas mileage for big and powerful. I do beleive the Police Interceptor Vicky has a beefed up suspension, no ?

    A new Charger or Caddy is out of my budget.

    Are there any PD's or Hiway patrols buying new Camros or Mustangs ?

    • Tre Deuce
      June 12, 2013 at 4:50 am

      Tim,

      My choice would be the Caprice, Olds, or Buick wagons based on the Gen-4 Caprice, B-body(Gen-7, SS). All of the wagons had the ‘SS’ LT-1(260 Hp) engine. Wagons with the tow package also had a lot of the police pkg pieces. These wagons scooted and got high 20′s MPG if driven carefully. Mid 20′s MPG was easy to obtain. Sold mine to a friend and he still won’t part with it, or his Citroen ‘SM’ that I rebuilt the motor for him a few years back.

  24. Tim
    September 24, 2012 at 9:06 pm

    I’m actively in the market for a new (used) car. I have 2 small kids that will grow to much bigger kids and i want the car to last 10+ years. I also drive 5 miles to the train station and back for my commute into downtown San Francisco. And then as a grocery getter around town nights and weekend and maybe a 50-100 mile round trip on weekends to see my folks. so I dont put a lot of miles on a car, maybe <10k a year. I also want a big trunk.

    I am sad to see the big American V8 rear wheel 4 door sedan dying a slow death. I have looked at a few used Crown Vics and Mercury Marquis and Lincoln Town cars mostly owned by blue hairs driving to church. I have ridden in plenty that are in service as cabs in San Fran and they all have mileage well into the 200,300 and even 400k range.

    Maybe if i can find a merc maruader or late 90s impala SS cheap…
    i just want cheap mainteneance and repair, i will sacrifce gas mileage for big and powerful. I do beleive the Police Interceptor Vicky has a beefed up suspension, no ?

    A new Charger or Caddy is out of my budget.

    Are there any PD's or Hiway patrols buying new Camaros or Mustangs ?

    • Johnny G
      September 25, 2012 at 8:54 pm

      Buick Roadmaster is cheaper than the SS or Marauder.

  25. Tre Deuce
    September 25, 2012 at 11:45 pm

    Go Fast(180 MPH) and Avoid the Popo’s

    In Washington state, you never know when a cop is near as they drive everything from Volvo wagons to SUV’s and pick-ups.

    Actually it is pretty effective slowing down Washington state citizens, but the out of stater’s who don’t know better, get pulled over a lot…usually in a BMW or Merc’, or some Birkenstock gal in a Subaru Forester or Outback.

    You rarely see a marked cruiser unless it is parked just to slow down traffic, or used in a multiple stop situation where they are using one Radar and 5 or 6 pursuit cars and cop motors to pull over offenders.

    In the warmer seasons, I used to bomb to SeaTac from PDX in a little over two hours(3 hour trip normally)on one of my motors, but not anymore. I take the car and set the cruise at 4 MPH above the limit and keep a watch out in the known high risk patrolled areas.

    My new/old trip BMW has the most accurate cruise control of any car I have ever utilized cruise in, so I can accurately dial in my ‘compensation’ factor and feel safe.

    When in Grants Pass I now take the RV-4, skirt the ATC areas, and arrive in Puyallup in about the same amount of time, though, the trip is more then twice as long. Cruising at 55% throttle at usually around 180 MPH in a mostly straight line getting around 25 ‘made good’ MPG, and no popo to worry about. Makes for a fast, fun, relaxing trip, and what a view.

    You all be careful out there, and quit watching the speedo when your eyes should be a 1000 ft. in front of your vehicle on the hwy.

    • September 26, 2012 at 10:32 am

      The use of “ordinary” cars by cops is dirty pool. Leaving aside my beef with their revenooing, there is the legitimate worry about cop impersonators in such an environment. Having obviously marked cruisers – and “cop” cars (Crown Vic, etc.) reduces that problem somewhat.

  26. Tre Deuce
    September 26, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    Speaking of dollars, Eric, there was a lot of grumbling about spending our dollars on foreign cars for police duty.

    • September 26, 2012 at 4:47 pm

      Amen – only it’s worse than “police” duty. It’s oppression – brutalizing and dominating people in other countries.

      Blowback is a bitch.

      The average German, just trying to live his life, probably didn’t deserve what happened to him – or Dresden.But it happened nonetheless. As, I suspect, it is going to happen to the average American, in his turn.

      • methylamine
        September 26, 2012 at 4:58 pm

        You’ll probably excuse me if I feel not one god-damned moment of sympathy for the idiot Clovers who are begging for it.

        It just sucks that we’ll have to endure it with them.

        And don’t tell them “I told you so”–it will just enrage them further.

        They’re walking around in a trance…and they resent anyone attempting to wake them.

        As I try to educate people, I’ve learned to hit hard and move on. The ones who have a glimmer of hope snap to it immediately; the ones who don’t, aren’t worth the time.

        I was at a grocery store and a woman had her baby in the cart; I struck up a conversation, then asked if she was going to vaccinate. Long story short, she was a little unsure–and I gave her the Anti-Vaccine Lite Spiel. She was receptive and wrote down a website I recommended (nvic.org). A couple of other customers were listening; one trotted out the usual “your unvaccinated kids will make mine sick!”, the other seemed curious but neutral.

        So one win, one maybe, and one idiot.

        I asked the idiot: “Ma’am, how’s that possible? If my kids are unvaccinated, but yours are vaccinated, then your kids are supposedly protected, right?”

        “Yes they are!” (the comfortable assuredness of only the scientifically illiterate)

        “Then how will my kids make them sick?”

        “Because they’re NOT VACCINATED! You’re putting everyone in danger!”

        I quoted a recent study that showed that 80% of measles, and 75% of mumps, occurred in fully vaccinated children, and at rates much higher than in un-vaccinated children.

        She couldn’t, and wouldn’t, hear it. “La-la-la-la I am not listening!” Comfortably ensconced in the suffocating grip of the Matrix; emerging would be too painful.

        BTW I’m trying a new trick. When I get a blank wall like that, as hard as it is I’m trying empathy. I say something along the lines of

        “I understand; it’s very hard to give up those lies because if you DO, you feel like there’s nothing you can do about it. And it’s scary, and frustrating, so you want to keep believing. But accepting the truth IS doing something about it, because at least you’re not being fooled anymore–and you can help other people get it, too!”

        It’s worked once with a work acquaintance on the 9/11 coverup.

        • Downrange
          September 26, 2012 at 5:42 pm

          There’s a line in Pulp Fiction where the character Travolta plays, speaking about the cretin who keyed his car,” y’know, it would almost be worth getting my car keyed, to catch the guy who did it.” That’s kind of how I feel about the helter skelter that’s seems to be inevitable some day. The clovers, who’ve voted for all that “diversity,” and for the “progressive” agenda all these decades are in for mega-payback. Hoisted on their own petards, so to speak.
          Of course, we’re all gonna be in the stink with them, and that does make it bad. If we ever emerge out this miasma and manage to restore a constitutional republic based on individual rights, we better try to figure some way to keep this from happening again. It’s obvious the checks and balances originally put in place were not effective.

          • methylamine
            September 26, 2012 at 7:30 pm

            The really guilty party–the Baby Boomers–are going to get it good and hard, I’m happy to say.

            What’s that? Your socialist security check won’t buy a bag of cat food?

            Aw. Cry me a river.

            And go read this book about Charles Ponzi; you’ll like it, it will seem familiar.

          • September 26, 2012 at 8:24 pm

            Yeah – except we’re gonna get it, too.

            Because the Baby Boomers are the parents of Gen X (and Gen Y)…. when the dole stops flowing, where will mom & dad go?

            Better have that finished basement ready…!

        • BrentP
          September 26, 2012 at 6:00 pm

          The logical incompatibilities that people believe because authority told them is simply staggering.

          Another reason I think people won’t ‘give up those lies’ is that they have to first admit to being fooled. I think that’s a big part of it. They don’t want to admit having been fooled. Having been conned. Doesn’t matter that they were children at the time.

          • Jean
            June 10, 2013 at 3:35 pm

            “I’ll tip my hat to the new constitution
            Take a bow for the new revolution
            Smile and grin at the change all around me
            Pick up my guitar and play
            Just like yesterday
            And I’ll get on my knees and pray
            We don’t get fooled again
            No, no!

            Meet the new boss: Same as the old boss.

        • Tre Deuce
          September 27, 2012 at 12:30 am

          They are invested in the BS methylamine, and it serves their purpose and world view, whether it be racism, sexism, mindless flag waving, partisanship, greed, or their own unrealistic opinion of themselves.

          “The only ‘truly unique’ human talent, is self deception”_aikiv

          Cognitive dissonance is rampant.

          And so it goes…………

  27. Tor Minotaur
    June 10, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    Dear Jean,

    I’m not qualified to diagnose what anyone says. There are often tones in my writing I don’t want to be present, yet they persist.
    I just mean to respond to the parts you write that engage my mind.

    Interesting idea, about protecting the thinkers.
    Perhaps it is step one, to amass some Neo-Spartans first, and then the less disciplined deep deep philosophical thinkers that only function and thrive when everything else is in place first.

    I appreciate your taking the chance to disclose personal things. Good raw and emotional writing is what connects best sometimes. The goal as I see it is to find as much of your personal truth as you can, and also discard as many of their falsehoods as you can.

    I wish to change myself first. If I believe myself a success, and am perceived as such, then everyone will trip over themselves trying to listen and understand the things I am saying.
    If I get preachy beyond my depth around my house, I will get called out on it immediately.
    The internet is my main outlet to try new ideas out.

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