Permission Slips Instead of Rights

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Our slavery is ingenious because it’s so very subtle. Most people not only don’t see (much less feel) their shackles – they get angry when someone calls attention to them. Most people, in other words, still imagine themselves to be free. This despite the obvious fact that they must first beg – and obtain – permission before they may exercise any of their former natural rights.

Even the elemental right to choose your spouse, for instance, is no longer a natural right; the state demands the couple seek its permission to marry. Exactly as feudal lords once demanded of their serfs. And serfs we have become.

One reason to do it officially – that is, to beg the state’s permission – is simply to have the legal standing in case, for example, your spouse falls ill. An officially anointed husband (or wife) has specific legal rights that a non-sanctioned (by the state) “partner” does not. And of course, there is the issue of taxes and the disposition of property following the death of a spouse.

The concealed carry handgun permit is exactly similar to the marriage permit. They are both usurpations of natural rights in that they force you to beg permission to exercise your (former) natural rights – and strictly define and delimit how you may exercise these ex-rights. It is the same as regards now-conditional property rights, the former right to travel freely, to speak (and even write) freely… and on and on. These things are now privileges that require permission.

As noxious as all that is, the alternative is even worse: Fail to get permission and your rights disappear completely, insofar as any obligation of the state to respect or even acknowledge them. To put a finer point on it, you can expect to be punished for any attempt to exercise your former natural rights.

They not only get you coming and going – they got you before you got going.

If your wife is severely injured or falls seriously ill, for instance, and has been taken to a hospital you have no legal standing to take decisions as regards her treatment – if you are not legally married in the eyes of the state. You may have exchanged vows – you may have done so in the presence of witnesses and clergy. Irrelevant – as a matter of law – absent the state’s permission slip. In which case, if your spouse is seriously ill and cannot make her wishes known, the wishes of her family – as defined by law, which means, her parents or other next of kin – take precedence over your wishes. And if there is no “legal” family – then the wishes of the state will decide. You are nothing more than a bystander. You don’t even have the right to see her in her room. If her father – or the doctor – does not like you, he may legally prevent you from seeing “your” wife – because technically, you are not her husband.

Thus, people beg the state’s permission. Much worse, they have accepted this as normal and reasonable. They do not  take umbrage – or even become mildly annoyed. Many – all too many – take pride in having begged for (and received) their permission slips. In having acquired a birth certificate (of ownership) for their children. A driver’s license, a Social Security number…. and so on.

Guns: At one time – and still within living memory – the natural right to possess and bear (carry, in modern terms) a firearm was explicitly and implicitly acknowledged and respected. Not only was there no law limiting any citizen’s right to possess and carry, it was taken as a given  that free men need no permission to possess and bear arms. Before November 1963, one could even order a gun through the mails and have it delivered directly to one’s home. After November, 1963, prior restraint began to be exercised against everyone because of the actions of one. The former natural right to possess a firearm became a conditional privilege – requiring a permission slip . If one wished to bear – that is, carry – the firearm beyond the borders of one’s home, a permit was required.

Ignore  “the law” – and get caught exercising your natural right to carry a weapon on your person without having made the proper supplications first – and you will discover exactly how much credence the state gives your ex-rights. You will be charged as a criminal – for acting as a free man.

Because freedom is illegal.

By definition. A child must ask permission of its parents. He is not free. A bondsman must ask permission of his master; he is not free. Anyone who must ask permission before he is permitted to act is not – cannot – be free.

As with the practical necessity of obtaining the state’s permission/sanction to wed whom you wish and have the union respected (somewhat) under the law – or to possess/carry a firearm –  it has become a practical necessity to – in effect – concede that you have no rights in order to be permitted the conditional use of any of them. You cannot operate – or even own – a car without the requisite permission slip. You may not legally even make improvements to “your” home without first obtaining a by-your-leave. Your food must be approved. You may only transact business if you have permission to do so – and only under certain conditions. It is not possible to live anymore without first having begged permission.

This is the evil genius of the system.  It gets people to acknowledge that they have no rights by getting them to beg permission to exercise them.

For if you have a right to something, then by definition you do not require permission to exercise that right. And more – the state (organized force) has no standing – under natural law – to use force to limit the exercise of that right in any way whatsoever. But the reverse is just as true. By having conceded that you need to beg permission, you become party to a binding legal contract – whether you see it that way or not is immaterial.

You have accepted the state’s rights – by giving up yours.

The satanic brilliance of the system we live under is that it has transformed all of our former natural rights into conditional privileges – and we have signed on the dotted line. Given our consent – by accepting the premise. The most vicious part of this devil’s deal is that few people are even aware of the flim-flam. They actually feel empowered when, for example, they obtain a CC permit. Or a permit to exercise their ex-right to free speech (in a “free speech zone,” of course).

The system leaves free men but one alternative – to act as free men and damn the state to hell. This of course, is no easy thing. In fact, it is a very hard – a very dangerous thing.  As it was for the lone hero who stood in front of that tank in Tiananmen  Square back in 1989. As it was for the White Rose (just kids, really) resistance in Nazi Germany. They painted slogans like “Freedom!” on the walls – and paid for it with their lives.

Free men do not beg permission. They insist that their rights be respected. Come what may.

But before anyone can insist that his rights be respected, he must understand that his rights exist because he exists. Not because his rights were written on a document. Not because the state acknowledges them formally. Rights just are. And once he has such understanding, he will resent like hell ever having to ask permission to exercise them.

Throw it in the Woods?

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eric

Author of "Automotive Atrocities" and "Road Hogs" (MBI). Currently living amongst the Edentulites in rural SW Virginia. 

  192 comments for “Permission Slips Instead of Rights

  1. Runaway slave
    November 27, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Dont forget the right to travel being replaced by the privilege to drive. Driving being a commercial term and all. Great article eric as always. Its a bitch that we will have to start defending our selves almost every time we leave our home. sad sad sad what a world what a world.

    • MoT
      November 27, 2012 at 5:20 pm

      Yeah, that “privilege” thing really gets to me. First you have to beg your lord and masters permission through a test, and fee, then once they’ve extracted that they tag you like a dog, cyclically with further fees/taxes, so that you have your imperial travel papers to ride on the Kings Highway. But, like those late night TV commercials “That’s not all!”… because your horse has to be taxed regularly as well as the feed you give it. And your horse has to be “inspected”, all with the necessary fees and all that, so that it’s deemed a safe horse with safe stirrups, safe saddle, and maybe even safe horse shoes and all. If it has a problem ingesting the latest royally sanctioned feed you’ll have to make do, put the animal down, or buy the latest and greatest mutant horse that can handle the GMO’d fuel. And so on and so forth.

      • November 27, 2012 at 5:59 pm

        And yet, so few see this… it’s amazing, isn’t it?

        We really do live in a Matrix.

        • Hot Rod
          November 29, 2012 at 7:22 am

          Sadly I used to get mad at the illegals for getting around and stealing our identities and disobeying laws. But you know I’ve began to have a great respect for them. You don’t get more civil disobedient and you see how the government reacts? Didn’t Jefferson say that when the government fears a people there is freedom? When Americans act like the so called illegals watch how the “political class will kiss our ass” (rhyming). Why the rest of Americans don’t see how well the illegals are doing and start asking why the chains are on us instead of demanding more on them? I think its cool when I see Pablo whip out a couple $100.00 bills at Walmart. You can’t say he is contributing to the evil coffers or class that are imprisoning us and the rest of the world combined. And for all the people who say they are overwhelming the social nets of this country, I say once again they are a source to fix what is wrong in this country. Like why we have social nets for anyone anyway. And as for identity theft again maybe the problem is that we are tied to an unmutable fixed government number anyway. How stupid is that? I suppose that when more than 20% of the population starts having their SS#’s stolen than we can all stop using that stupid number. Until then don’t post your whole life on facebook as criminals and government are watching. Bah Humbug and lump of freedom for your Pablo after all X-mas is coming early to you this year, and for you timmie the American I’ve got to take that lump of coal and use it to pay my taxes.

          • November 29, 2012 at 11:01 am

            My issue with illegals is that they are another tool being used to separate us from our rights and property. For example, ID checks – the pretext being “to catch illegals.” Property – higher taxes to pay for “free” public (government) education, health care and so on.

            End the welfare state, and I am not opposed to open borders.

          • Jeff Anderson
            November 29, 2012 at 1:41 pm

            I would gladly offer a trade to Mexico. I would take ten people willing to work for every bureaucrat of ours they will take.

          • Tim Duffy
            November 29, 2012 at 9:42 pm

            Terrific post Hot Rod. I thought I was an extreme anarchist/libertarian. You have shown I still have a long way to go.

          • November 30, 2012 at 5:22 am

            Jeff Anderson on November 29, 2012 at 1:41 pm wrote

            I would gladly offer a trade to Mexico. I would take ten people willing to work for every bureaucrat of ours they will take.

            Why do you hate Mexico so much, to wish that deal on them?

          • ray
            November 30, 2012 at 6:02 am

            “Why do you hate Mexico so much, to wish that deal on them?”

            LOL! What about 10 bureaucrats for every 1 person willing to work?

            Or is that even worse for Mexico?

          • Freedom1man
            December 3, 2012 at 7:41 pm

            There is no law requiring a citizen to have a SSN for any other purpose than for the collection of federal benefits.

          • December 3, 2012 at 8:17 pm

            Well, yes – but as a practical matter, it is almost impossible to function in this society without one. Most employers require it, for instance. Also banks – they won’t open an account for you without one. How does one transact business? Or even get paid? (Assuming you prefer to avoid a 20 percent “check cashing” fee.)

            I hate SS down to its socks – but it’s as inescapable as the taxes.

        • Hot Rod
          November 29, 2012 at 7:47 am

          BTW Eric I agree with permission with so called “Authority Figures” as being the primary effect of a singular problem. The cause of course is the money they steal from us and use against us to form all these phony control freak institutions. I was thinking the best way to kill this beast is financially or going at its cause. When enough people get sick of this crap then they can either stop working so hard and/or stop paying for illegitimate class. I personally try to reinvest all my profits back into investments to limit the amount I pay out to the government. But when I finally am forced to take a profit for taxes I’m hoping to catch the next train out of Dodge. If not I’ll just go back to idle mode to give the Marxists what they want. The illegals are a couple of steps ahead of us in liberty and show their technique very effective form of limiting government reach. Maybe something could be learned about community clanning from them as well.

          Also, I have a hypothesis that sites like this are becoming hard to find. Have you seen how many news sites don’t allow anonymous comments anymore? Have to have a facebook account to say anything or be a social networking of telling all the intimitate details and skeletons of your life along with a record of who you are online to say anything against the ruling news class.

          Next I was reading how people are hacking into the facebook accounts and deliberately using the stolen accounts to post misinformation (stealing their identities, etc). Which leads me to believe that the government will next use this minor infraction to force government identity on the internet, because we all know that government runs security better than anyone else. End the end you will need a permission slip to say anything on the internet. May we all pray that all people can wake up and become self aware or that those of us who are aware are provided a safe passage out of this prison.

          • November 29, 2012 at 10:58 am

            Hi HR,

            If I were in my young 20s and single, here’s what I’d do:

            Own nothing – with the exception of an old car or bike. Rent – and pay with cash. Even better, buy an RV and live in it. “Squat” on government land, such as parks. Horde as much of my cash income as possible and convert as much of it as possible into fungible, transportable things. Maintain a small bank account with a local bank for the sole purpose of avoiding fees to cash/deposit funds.

            One problem those of us in our 30s, 40s and older have is we’ve spent decades working hard to get a house, nice cars/bikes, etc. This – like kids – binds us down. We have to fear the state and its thugs more than the “kid” in my example above (or the illegal alien).

            We are American Kulaks – and, I fear, face the same potential fate.

          • Peej
            November 29, 2012 at 3:10 pm

            I consistently get a note the first time I try to get to this site from Lew Rockwell’s, that Internet Explorer can not find the page. It works the second try. What’s that about?

          • Hot Rod
            November 30, 2012 at 4:58 am

            Hi Eric,

            Not to sound like a young one, I’m in my 40’s. I’m speculating we are about the same age. I know what you mean on the kids and on ownership thing though. I’ve worked enough in the corporate world to know how a man gets treated at a full time job after having a kid(s). Its almost equivalent to the banshees coming out and handcuffing the guy to an eternity of office employee of the month hell. Chain and ball! Nothing wrong with having kids, but just not one of my interests or maybe it was just not in the deck of cards for me anyway but that doesn’t matter as I’m content not being tied down. Also could never see buying land when it was obvious it was overpriced. Now I can’t see owning it because its seems too fascist for me even though today’s prices would have been great a few years ago. But I sympathize nevertheless with someone who wants the old way of life including old freedoms of our ancestors the land settlers. For me I’m just a guy that wants to support this system as least as possible, build future technology that enriches and liberates, outsmart the bad guys, and get around the system. I really can’t see that the clock can be unwound. If we rewrote the constitution as simple as it was in its beginning unwinding all the precedents set in 200 some years, it would take 10 minutes to be right back where we are today. That’s because the new norm invalidates what used to work. In my opinon the only way to conquer this beast is to try a totally different and innovative and new approach, like the founders did in their prime. The internet is one such approach, but there are actually many avenues of life and frontiers where there is no government at all. Best to figure out how to keep these to oneself because if you make it too easy for the general populace they will certainly regulate and prison wall it.

            If the rest of the world embraces freedom with me then great and we can regain some of the old territory, but if not then I’ll just move and maximize where I find little resistance. I believe messages like your own will power the future and bring a renaissance again and with the right technology and liberating attitude no walls will be erected for a while. Though in my opinion it will never be as naive or exactly like the old again. I’ve said for example that I love guns. This is no understatement. But to argue somehow that guns have the same impact against checking government abuse as it did in the 1700’s would be naive. Common criminals yes, government no. It would be like the founders arguing at their time that the people have right to bear swords against their militia instead of guns. This is where I think one who wants to be free will be free at that moment he decides. It takes one to realign with what is open frontier and give up what is closed and occupied to the general populace. Or revisit with new technology what was lost. My ancestors left the east coast simply because it was closed and stagnant in freedoms long before today for the same reason as I will be leaving behind what used to be my father’s homestead. Maybe freedom and a new frontier doesn’t lie in a new land but rather in our own minds of exploration and defiance.

            Again though I think the answer to all these problems of control has to do with who is paying the checks to the people manning those controls. Because without limiting the amount they steal from both you and I, both your old freedoms and my frontiers will be closed much quicker. This is why I keep stressing civil disobedience (preferably legal) and you are right those of us with less to lose will probably be leading the way. That path for me will not be for glory only for pursuit of my own happiness first. The old saying that the more you own the more it owns you is a truth. Yet we still need what makes us comfortable and enough capital to get us by and make us profitable. As far as land I’m a Evans homestead free soiler believer and individulist. Basically use it or lose it rights instead of ownership by government title. Just like Lew doesn’t believe in ownership of intellectual property by government title (patents and copyrights) in the same way I don’t believe in titles or deeds of land confessed by government. Because each becomes a way to use government duress to cause subugation. This isn’t the world we live in though. I’m an inventor of intellectual property and you are a land owner and probably inventor as well, and we have to admit that we are both captive to land deeds and intellectual property laws in existence. Freedom therefore still lies out there but is not where it used to be as old frontiers are always closing due to mindless hoardes. Therefore, we must stop feeding the gatekeepers anyway possible, educate as many as possible that are capable, and keep exploring new frontiers or new technologies to regain what freedom was lost.

        • JungianINTP
          November 29, 2012 at 6:01 pm

          That MATRIX, dear Eric, is comprised of biological systems’

          survival mechanisms—from virus/bacterium survival

          strategies to humans’ own highly complex means to fending off

          death (( “MATRIX” and “LIFE” are synonymous terms )) .

          Societal “permission slips” are evolved survival strategies,

          adopted from thousands of years of humans’ experimenta-

          tion in what works and doesn’t work in keeping peace in the

          family, community, and nation.

          The Bible is a compilation of lessons learned, many of

          which were passed down from pre-Summerian civilizations.

          And the idea “God” – a hidden, all-seeing, all-knowing, all-

          powerfull authority – had been used to give weight and

          perpetuity to those lessons— lessons wrought from

          millennia of warring and hardship within groups and be-

          tween groups.

          For example, how did stoning an adulterer to death be-

          come law? Well, an adulterer’s breaking of his/her

          marriage contract could cause a blood feud that de-

          stroyed the entire community, So, killing the offending

          person prevented warring and death of community

          members. That’s why simple thefts were treated so

          harshly, too, in ancient societies (( and in present-day

          military units )): Theft made everyone untrusting of

          everyone else, causing a threat to group-suvival, un-

          til the thief had been caught and punished.

          Most PERMISSION SLIPS today serve a purpose

          relared to group-survival, to keeping the peace, and

          have their genesis in ancient lessons learned by trial

          and error.

          As for seeking true freedom, study Robert Monroe’s

          book, “Journey’s Out of the Body”—then learn how

          to do that.

          • JungianINTP
            November 29, 2012 at 6:09 pm

            Note:

            I have no explanation for the broken lines in the beginning paragraphs of my above post. – my apologies, Eric -

        • AJ
          November 29, 2012 at 8:07 pm

          Hi Eric, Great article as always – you are right there are so few that are “awake”. That’s why I come here to read your articles and the 99% clover-free comments. Love the fact you appear on lewrockwell.com on a regular basis. I was converted to Anarcho/Libertarian thought by Lew in 1996 – I was aghast in listening to Lew on a radio show say that China wasn’t a threat to us. According to Lew, our own Government, Fed, State & Local were. I was angry to hear the TRUTH and it prompted me to call in. After a few minutes of back and forth, I literally woke up. It was indeed like Neo getting unplugged from the Matrix! Anyway, keep up the great work, you are like a brother in spirit for many of us out here, kung-fu fighting Agent Smith(s) day in, day out

          Live Free or Die!
          -AJ

          • November 29, 2012 at 8:47 pm

            Thanks, AJ –

            And yes, the moment of awakening is quite something. That epiphany – when you begin to see, for the first time. And once you do see, you can never un-see. It is literally like the red pill (vs. the blue pill). But it’s a journey well worth taking.

            Great to have you with us!

    • CaptKent
      November 30, 2012 at 7:52 pm

      Eric, about your 1963 date ending mail order gun purchases: I ordered a shotgun from a Wards Catalog and it was delivered by ground freight. The year – 1968

      Great article.

      • November 30, 2012 at 8:30 pm

        Thanks, Capt!

        Such a thing (freedom like that) is literally unbelievable today. In just 40-something years, that’s how much has changed.

        • Me2
          November 30, 2012 at 8:39 pm

          What? In the “Land of the Free” (HA!) you can’t get a mail order gun?

          Even here in socialist, gun hating Canuckistan I have had handguns, shotguns, rifles and ammo sent via Canada Post. Not one the guns even had a trigger lock on it and they were in the retail boxes, so everyone knew what they were in transit.

          • November 30, 2012 at 9:10 pm

            Nope. Not since the ’60s.

            You can order a gun via the mails (or online) but it must be shipped to a person with a federal firearms license, who will then “transfer” it to you. At least the waiting period is gone (for now) courtesy of the instant background check.

  2. Runaway slave
    November 27, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Do we allow our selves to be kidnapped and caged for exercising our rights? at what point can we use lethal force to protect ourselves from these highwaymen and man stealers? lets get real its forced internment and slavery.

    • November 27, 2012 at 1:20 pm

      First, enough people have to be awakened. To know that they are slaves. The next step will take care of itself.

      • Tor Munkov
        November 27, 2012 at 2:24 pm

        The first step is a doozy. Don’t be milquetoast freedom platitude monger. But don’t get so obleak in your angles of attack that you come off like Jim Jones, Charles Manson, either.

        Cognitive dissonance oozes forth lately, but only in written form. Maybe you and Dom put some drudge report links at the bottom of your splash page and bill them $10/month each or something to make this a bigger, profit centered site.

        Look at what one nobody, Karl Marx, accomplished with only his mind and writings. With more feedback and introspection, he might have found an improvement for capitalism, who can say.

        The key is to be open to correction, and to adapt and grow. Sometimes you wander into the Rye, but always the Catchers like R Balko, A Kokesh, and mad geniuses like twitter.com/ioerror are there to instruct and correct.

        I only play “extremist” on the net, in person I seem to be a joker, and the deeper font of my “humor” like epautos.com articles goes right over the common clovers head. But sometimes, they catch on to what ‘im really talking about, especially when I talk about the consensus gist rather than my often erroneous musings and fever swampmonster self-confected ibertarian hype.

        • Boothe
          November 27, 2012 at 6:50 pm

          Not to come across as correcting you, but Tor I believe from what I’ve read that Frederich Engels was more than likely the real author of “Marxism.” Marx himself spent a lot of time out running around drinking, gambling, amassing debt, catching STD’s and populating Europe with his illegitimate offspring. What Marx and Engels proposed was born out hatred of capitalism’s requirement that you get up off your ass and go do something productive; the reward being commensurate with the number of people you successfully and profitably serve. Marx was a hedonistic flim-flam man that wanted (and often received) something for nothing. So he wanted a system where everyone else worked and he skimmed the cream.

          As the early settlers at Plymouth and Jamestown found out, under a “share and share alike” system, eventually the majority ends up sitting on their collective ass waiting for the next guy to do the work and they all end up equal: in a state of privation. I doubt Marx could have come up with anything better than what he allegedly did unless it was a form of capitalism; because there is no better system to feed, clothe and house everyone than that which directly rewards one for one’s own efforts. There is certainly a more effective system of fooling the public into believing they are free, taking a goodly portion of their labor and letting them keep enough of the fruits to avoid rapid collapse: it would be fascism. And that’s what we have now; along with its attendant restrictions, regulations and “hall passes” (as you well know).

          Marx’ progeny here in the modern “civilized” USSA is the Free Shit Army. And as Eric points out in this article, you even have to ask the state’s permission to be officially allowed to pony up a third of the fruits of your labor in tributum to the FSA. I’ve actually turned down overtime and side jobs just so I wouldn’t have to pay any extra into this infernal system. As our owners demand more and more, many of us will figure out ways to do (and pay) less and less. It comes full circle and the serpent always devours its own tail. I’m more than happy to whack this present serpent across the bridge of the nose any way I can to help sink its teeth a little deeper into its own ass and speed up the process.

          • methylamine
            November 27, 2012 at 7:38 pm

            It may go deeper even than Engels and Marx.

            I’ve read, but not confirmed, that Adam Weishaupt–founder of the Illuminati in 1775–penned the original Communist Manifesto under a different name…

            …and that Engels merely updated and edited it.

            It’s a luciferian plot to destroy the middle class and create a freakishly rich uber-class of evil oligarchs.

          • Tor Munkov
            November 28, 2012 at 3:51 am

            There is probably no post I couldn’t find a correction for, Boothe. In this case, I typed quotes around Marx’s “accomplishments”, because in reality, it doesn’t seem that all his writings had any good effects,

            Syphillis was a great “asset” militarily for my ancestors to move to new continents, so ‘im not sure I have standing to denegrate it.

            Eventually, the Gutenberg press brought Lutheranism to compete with Catholicism. Maybe that’s all the internet has even a chance of accomplishing; a competing IPTB to the current PTB.

            6 billion bibles have been printed, but for me, quantity is not conclusive. Somehow all the millenia of polygamy goes out the window because of Apostle Paul. Good old Paul even advocates celibacy, if you can “ascend” to it’s “wonderment.

            For convenience, I ended up enduring 18 years among the 1 bi.llion Catholics. No one in my family is of this faith, but the school suited certain of their needs. IMHO Catholics are super-chimps and superstitious self-haters that make life unnecessarily difficult.

            They start you out with some genital mutilation and it quickly goes downhill from there. Keep fighting the good fight, the shit-storm just took a hard left and is making a beeline towards the fan.

          • Puzzled
            November 29, 2012 at 5:17 am

            I really get tired of people claiming that big government is a lucifarian plot. I wish people would show some respect for the religious differences of the satanist world and not tarnish the Devil by association with the state.

          • methylamine
            November 29, 2012 at 5:24 am

            @puzzled–

            I started reading your post and was about to compose a scathing rebuttal!

            Excellent, and you’re absolutely right.

            I think it’s entirely unfair to the decent practitioners of Satanism–who, after all, have only practiced child sacrifice, murder, mayhem, and madness–to compare them to statists..

            shudder.

          • November 30, 2012 at 5:32 am

            No, work won’t cut it. These days there are only three ways to get rich, marry it, inherit it, or steal it.

    • November 29, 2012 at 1:12 pm

      “Do we allow our selves to be kidnapped and caged for exercising our rights? at what point can we use lethal force to protect ourselves from these highwaymen and man stealers?”

      What are your thoughts about this:

      http://freedomguide.blogspot.com/2012/11/copblockorg-when-should-you-shoot-cop.html

  3. GW
    November 27, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    I have a question that I would like some feedback on…

    I agree with the article. But what to do about it?

    The issue of applying for a CC permit and putting myself on record was a concern. I choose to “seek permission” partially to avoid the near term potential legal hassles that would occur had my rights been violated by the Gestapo and I was deemed a threat for being armed w/o the proper papers – leading to potential arrest / trial/ incarceration for the mere act of exercising what should be a “right”.

    It is a hard truth to accept that I had to play the game for some degree of short term “protection” and to know that if “they” come for our guns that my name is on the list – thankfully “W” is near the end of the list which may just by me the time I need to “disappear”, since word will get out if this scenario comes to pass.

    I will deal with that choice (it is not really a choice in my mind)if and when that happens. While the country is not currently going in the right direction, I still want to hold out hope that the pendulum will eventually swing back in the correct direction.

    Thoughts?

    • November 27, 2012 at 1:19 pm

      Hi Glenn,

      I faced the same Hobson’s Choice – and chose to beg permission, for the same reasons you did. For the same reason I got my “driver’s” license – and marriage license, too.

      The point of decision – for all of us – will come when permission is withdrawn.

      • Tor Munkov
        November 27, 2012 at 1:51 pm

        Do you aver your wife is a registered US citizen, attach photocopy here. Sign here.
        Is your wife female,male,trangender,neuter,hydraulic,robotic, attach photo with seal of gender identification here. Sign here.
        Under penalty of aggrevated perjury, do you certify your wife is not a sex offender, victim of trafficking, part of an arranged, brokered, or international bride agency, or any other force or contractual arrangement? Attach ministry of love declarion form copy c here and put you and wife’s thumbprints in box H.
        To verify international records, please include a money order made out to United Nations Marital Official Commission, in the amount of 690 Euros or equivalent local currency.
        Thank you, and congratulations from the United Nuptia Associations of Eastern America Homeland and Homedweller Security.

        • Hot Rod
          November 29, 2012 at 6:52 am

          LOL! Wow you are clever with the humor. A very effective humor/rhetoric in thick educated words, how many converts have you made? I’ve read a few of your posts and it started with smile and eventually ended in chuckling. Wouldn’t know about Catholics but I totally agree with you on apostle Paul for one.

          • Tor Munkov
            December 3, 2012 at 2:19 am

            Thanks Hot Rod. I consider myself a gateway to libertarianism and Jefferson’s Agrarian Ideal – which says those who work the land are the chosen people. Gods and Governments are irrelevant, it is the makers and producers who are sacred.

            Working on automobiles and bikes involves working the elements of the land, and is a modern type of agrarian work, to me this is the place to be.

            Implying there is a right single way to live and to produce things is patently wrong. The presence of a bale of hay or a pallet of rear view mirrors is itself prima fascia evidense of a moral and correct person. One need not ponder the nature of he who delivers the goods.

            Thanks for your encouragement, I hope my clowning self-confessionalism will hopefully launch many more, who will far exceed what little I have won, being dealt a winning hand early in the game.

      • Rooney
        November 28, 2012 at 6:01 pm

        There’s much to consider here. I have some more thinking to do but it helps me to keep things in perspective knowing that these issues are being discussed in a rational manner (at least on this site.)

        I tend to treat the compliance issue as something I do to avoid further unwanted interference from the state. A form of social camouflage if you will

    • Tor Munkov
      November 27, 2012 at 1:33 pm

      I have an internet connection, so of course, heed my advice, it’s the best. You can’t only lawyer and comply yourself to freedom, but it can be a componenet. You can’t purchase your way to freedom, by byuying things at freedom mart, but having scarce Capital (not merely consumer) goods can be a larger component. One answer is sound money.

      Timmy Geitner is discontinuing nickels and pennies in Jan 2013, Nickels are worth 8 cents, horde them all. Sell items on Craigslist, but offer a 50% discount to those who pay in nickels. Some pennie are 300%s of face, most are below face value.

      A FEW YEARS HENCE WE CAN RECAST, REDYE, RE-DEMARCATE THESE COINS FOR OUR OWN USE. They could be backed by commodities and have no fiat. We can diverge from their fiat nightmare and become more trusted than the Central Bank Dollar and its ragged paper tiger lies.

      Or just get guns, and a gun smith shop, and load your own bullets. Just my 2 Ron Paulian Cents worth, is all ‘im saying. Flies with no Lords will need new para-dimes to transact on the emerging American Island under constant seige by East Germans Du Jour.

      • BrentP
        November 27, 2012 at 2:40 pm

        Nickles are currently melting at face value (4.95 cents or so) . They have been as high as nine cents in recent years. coinflation.com tracks melt value daily.

        Nickles are probably the safest investment right now. If the dollar tanks they will hold their purchasing value. If the dollar doesn’t tank they will hold their face value.

        • methylamine
          November 27, 2012 at 7:45 pm

          1kg of nickels is exactly $10.

          If you want to invest $20K, that’s 2,000kg–4,400lbs. Problem is, I don’t have room for over two tons of nickels!

          Still…I wish I’d had the same problem in 1964 with silver half-dollars.

          • BrentP
            November 27, 2012 at 7:48 pm

            I didn’t say it was practical…. :)

            But I have enough nickles to buy food for a week or three…

        • AJ
          November 29, 2012 at 9:36 pm

          I read the same article today and went out and picked up 2 more boxes (200 FRN’s) of Nickels at my bank. The bank people there were looking at me like I was crazy. I related the news of NO MORE NICKELS..it was meet with a collective shrug… Don’t you just love the Matrix?

        • Tor Munkov
          December 3, 2012 at 2:32 am

          MELTING. I guess the 75% copper 25% nickel in our silver(colored) coins does have to be de-alloyed (if possible) to be of highest usefulness and to get the market spot price.

    • November 29, 2012 at 4:33 pm

      There is no perfect answer short of individual sovereignty, of course, but there are steps one can take to reduce the number and influence of these “permission slips.”

      First, don’t live in a state or jurisdiction that is seriously freedom hostile! Vote with your feet and find a location where both “government” and the neighbors have less wish and incentive to control your life for you. There still ARE such places. I live in one.

      I don’t “need” anyone’s permission to carry a gun, openly or concealed. I don’t “need” any permission (no codes) to build or remodel my dwelling or build any other structures I want. I don’t “need” anyone’s permission to keep animals, run a business from my property, or much of anything else.

      And the minions of the state do not stop people to randomly search for those things that are not approved. That’s a BIG one. If you don’t aggress against others, it’s highly unlikely anyone will give you that grief.

      For marriage, co-cohabitational contracts, durable power of attorney forms, and solid relationships with other family members will go a long way toward reducing the perceived need for state permission. Of course, many of THOSE things require the state involvement, so you pays your money and takes your chances.

      But the more we decline to participate in the state “permission” game, the better off we’ll be in the present, and the more likely we’ll be to convince our fellow men that freedom is always best.

  4. mamba
    November 27, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    Exactly right and well written…we don’t have ANY rights when you get down to it. One should only have to ask permission for anything if it can affect someone else. Period! Any other activity is a personal decision with only you affected.

    Free speech? Only if you say what the state likes. Food choices? Try it sometime…you’re barely allowed to know what’s IN the food. Crossing the street? Jaywalking…even if common sense says no cars coming. (in my city Saint John NB Canada the locals are actually even trying to use JAYWALKING laws to deal with PROSTITUTION, and the local clovers love it not seeing that it’s stupid, unenforcable, and a nice revenue collector)

    It reminds me of the texas judge a few years back who during a drug trial literally told the jury to go back and find the defendant guilty (case was overturned later). No choice but the illusion of choice, and not even a very good illusion either.

    The best Clover punchline though…and you hear it all the time, when you complain a clover will just say “Well write to your local gouvernment or MLA and demand action!” They are so brainwashed that they see this as the ONLY option. This option plays right into the gouvernment’s hand of course as it lets them control the discourse (literally, they can shut off your microphone, arrest you in the street, etc), force the discussion into an avenue where they have 100% complete control (court system), and basically ignore you. The PROPER way to protest the law (outright defiance) is inconscievable to a clover.

    Don’t ask permission from the gouvernment for something benign, simply assume you have it becasue you should!

    Remember, you don’t need the gouvernment’s permission to exist, BUT THEY NEED YOURS!!!

  5. Don Cooper
    November 27, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    I told a girlfriend once that every decision in her life is controlled by the gov’t. She argued vehemently with me that they weren’t.

    So we went out to the car and she put her daughter in a state mandated child seat, drove in the lane the state told her to drive in, stopped and sat at every red light even if there was not a car in sight, signaled to turn even if there was no one behind her, …

    People have been conditioned to believe that state order is freedom. They have no idea how conditioned they are to go about life in accordance with the state’s mandates. Very Borg like, very creepy.

    • MoT
      November 27, 2012 at 7:34 pm

      Oh, god bless you for trying. Is she still your girlfriend?

    • GW
      November 28, 2012 at 1:41 pm

      You let her drive?

    • Texas Chris
      November 29, 2012 at 1:20 pm

      Some of those things would be societal norms even without government. The insidious genius of the state is that it takes credit for those societal norms, and claims that none of them would be possible without the state.

      Classic “who would build the roads” argument.

  6. Don Cooper
    November 27, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    “For if you have a right to something, then by definition you do not require permission to exercise that right” – Yup! That’s a big problem: people do not know the difference between a right and a wrong. They think the law defines wrongs or what they “feel” is wrong.

    *sigh*

    • mamba
      November 27, 2012 at 4:54 pm

      I use a simple criteria:

      -if I’m the only one being affected by any decision, than it’s a right by default.

      -if someone else may be affected, then it’s a privledge because I don’t have the right to tell others how to live, even if it means putting up with me doing whatever I was going to do.

      So in practice…do we have a right to privacy? Absolutely since it only affects others once YOU involve others. Right to food/clothing/shelter/policing? Nope…not up to the gouvernment to provide those UNLESS YOU ARE PAYING THEM TO DO SO. Then it’s breach of contract if they do not. Drugs and sex? as long as everyone involved agrees, certainly a right. Guns? Definately a right until you shoot someone else…then it’s a case-by-case basis of whether you should have a gun anymore (did the other person deserve it and were you responsible when you shot them to know your surroundings?).

      Given that criteria, we SHOULD have a few rights, but we don’t, and we don’t fight to keep the few we have if a uniformed person tells you to give them up. Think how many people will just let a cop search them…no reason at all. But if I walked up to them and asked to search them, I’d be told to go away quickly. What’s the difference, clover? :)

      • November 27, 2012 at 6:20 pm

        You are describing the “Golden Rule” found in Luke 6:31.

        (The only rule needed, really.)

  7. BrentP
    November 27, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    Well conditioned as children to ask permission most people find this a totally acceptable situation. One forum I’ve been participating in for many years I think I’ll leave for good now. Why? the abuse I got in reply for writing that the government permitting gay marriage is not a fundamental change.

    I wrote that government power is unchanged regardless of what it allows. We as a people are no freer if government allows homosexuals to marry. Government still decides who can marry who.

    The attacks were vicious as they have been before, but it tells me that this typical chicago (it’s a local group) democrat group who complains about government endlessly but fails to consider any real solution, just looks for a new guy to use all this government power and more to make things right is beyond hope. If they cannot grasp the simple notion of having to seek permission being a source of power there is just no hope at all.

    • Texas Chris
      November 29, 2012 at 1:27 pm

      That point, a very valid point, is the key to expansion of government authority.

      The state acknowledges a societal norm, and puts it’s blessing on that activity by creating a law that says “do this the way society does it.” Nobody really minds, because it’s already normal. Then the state begins to nudge, requiring a license, tweaking the acceptable behavior, exempting some for “public safety” reason, clamping down…

      Then you wake up and that societal norm of your youth is now a highly regulated activity. Driving. Gun ownership. Air travel. Banking. Healthcare.

  8. NobodysaysBOO!
    November 27, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    There are millions and millions of illegal aliens living and working in our country taking our jobs stealing our possessions on and on, THEY ” Don’t need NO STINKING BADGES” they don’t ASK PERMISSION before they break into your house or shoot your kid down in the street like a mad dog! The LAW does not bother THEM, NOBODY puts THEM in jail, even when they commit MURDER. SO WHO IS FREE and WHO is a SLAVE?

    • November 27, 2012 at 3:06 pm

      It’s because they’re useful to TPTB.

      Orwell noted this in 1984: The proles are free – because the proles don’t matter.

      • MoT
        November 27, 2012 at 5:30 pm

        The true “slaves” were the outer-party “members” who while thinking themselves part of some grand scheme actually had no freedom whatsoever and were working and slaving away for the inner-party. That’s the tragedy of modern American thinking today.

        • November 27, 2012 at 5:57 pm

          Yup –

          And it is precisely the same today. In real life.

          I was having a conversation along these lines just yesterday. My friend said (words to the effect) that maybe living in a trailer – even being homeless – has its upsides. You are so much more free than people like us.

          My friend was right.

        • Ed
          November 29, 2012 at 1:02 pm

          “The true “slaves” were the outer-party “members”…”

          Exactly. A perfect illustration of this is the Ron Paul “campaign” of 2012. Liberty lovers were roped into the GOP’s big tent where we could be cornholed at the leisure of the party fatboys.

          Think about it: we were slaving away inside the confines of the GOP, working at getting “our” nominee onto THEIR ticket.

          Naturally, it came to naught. There was never a prayer of accomplishing the goal, but it served to keep us from actually doing anything that might harm the system.

          You don’t kill a snake by living in its belly. Taking a long handled hoe to it works, though.

          • Texas Chris
            November 29, 2012 at 1:31 pm

            I’m still very wired in to the GOP, and I can tell you it was not “for naught”. They are very, very afraid that they lost control of the levers of power over the Ron Paul fiasco. They’re even certain of it at the local levels.

            They won a battle, and lost the war, Alamo style.

          • methylamine
            November 29, 2012 at 6:06 pm

            @Texas Chris:

            Yes–the Rethuglicans stabbed themselves in the gut to excise Ron Paul. The bleeding-out may take time but the wound is fatal.

            The problem is, they will continue to gasp out compromises as long as their power base–the idiot “conservatives”, mostly church-going baby-boomers–are alive.

            I don’t think we have time for a viable third party to form and gain enough power to turn the ship.

            National politics are a lost cause–I will not put ANY more energy into them.

            Alex Jones promotes perhaps the most viable–if still quixotic–strategy with his “secession lite” idea.

            Devolution of power to smaller regions is the only peaceful way out.

          • BrentP
            November 30, 2012 at 12:47 am

            I don’t think any Ron Paul supporters trusted the republican party. However the election mechanisms in this country are monopolized so people did what they could, try to overtake team R.

            The problem is that most of Ron Paul’s most energetic supporters with time are rather young, and like myself when I was younger they believed in written rules. So they studied the rules. They saw how to win. They executed their plan only to find that the written rules had no meaning. The written rules were simply tossed aside when those with power found they could lose.

            But the republican party is a social club of people who are in and around government, not government itself. And because it is a social club it needs young members to survive. By doing this to the young members, it just slit it’s own throat. It’s as good as dead when it’s present membership dies off, as what happens to many a social club or hobby.

    • November 29, 2012 at 7:07 pm

      The illegal aliens serve the needs of the ruling class because they create lawlessness and chaos and destruction, on which ambitious governments thrive and grow. The government BENEFITS from all the crime because the crime causes the stupid “clovers” as y’all call them, (I call them scumsucking filthy stupid maggot serf assholes), to shake their fists and DEMAND more and total government.

  9. Chad
    November 27, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    Unfortunately, you are very much correct that most people become upset and I think irrational whenever someone points out the fact that they have to ask their master for permission to do anything “legally”. This irrational denial of facts is not likely to change any time soon. I avoid the state and all of its thugs as much as possible. The quickest way to end this type of tyranny is the people just ignoring the government and its minions. They only have power as long as they have slaves willing to use violence against their fellow man.

    • Texas Chris
      November 29, 2012 at 1:34 pm

      They key is to resists firmly, but non-violently (for now). And be educated and confident, but not a tool.

      Cop stops you for something silly: “Did I hurt someone? Then am I free to go?”

      I had a cop stop me as a jaywalked in front of my office. I asked if I hurt someone, he said I endangered my self. I said:

      “I don’t want to press charges, am I free to go?”

      And I went. Small victories win wars.

      • November 29, 2012 at 2:23 pm

        Hey Chris,

        ““I don’t want to press charges, am I free to go?””

        This suggestion is excellent!

        I can’t wait for my next opportunity to try it out….

        • November 29, 2012 at 7:09 pm

          Be careful. I KNOW that many pigs would tase you for saying that, bro!!!

  10. NobodysaysBOO!
    November 27, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    PS: Janice got it right when she told us all 40 years ago ” Freedom is just another word for NOTHING left to lose” Like the illegal alien here because he has nothing and therefore he has NOTHING to lose, to him EVERYTHING is OK, kill steal rape go home and come back again to steal rape and kill again those stupid Americanos wont do NOTHING they are Chicken shit cowards. LOL

    • IndividualAudienceMember
      November 27, 2012 at 3:44 pm

      I think you’re confusing illegal aliens with sociopaths.

      How To Spot a Sociopath
      http://lewrockwell.com/adams-m/adams-m24.1.html

      Your statement here seems to be a bit too large of a blanket:

      NobodysaysBOO! wrote, “Like the illegal alien here because he has nothing and therefore he has NOTHING to lose, to him EVERYTHING is OK”

      The illegal alien is like the meth boogieman to soo many People trying to justify the state boot and the new drones.
      Don’t be of assistance to that.

      • Texas Chris
        November 29, 2012 at 1:39 pm

        The anti-aliens fear-mongering screams of envy. “Illegals” are obviously more free. They don’t really care if they go to jail for a couple of days, get a hot meal, whatever. Not gonna affect them much in the long run, and it’s a waste of time for the cops to even bother with most of them.

        Sure, there may be some criminals among the 20,000,000 illegals in the US, but nowhere near a majority. It’s a tiny fraction, and that fraction could easily be dealt with if Americans were actually ARMED, as is their right.

    • freedserf
      November 27, 2012 at 4:23 pm

      She was on mind altering drugs. Beyond the dramatic and poetic oversimplification, it is just a bad example of logical reasoning. Your logical next step is death. Then you’ll really have nothing left to lose and be free, right?
      I just can’t bring myself to fault a man who wants to better himself. And I don’t find “alien” and “stealing and raping” to be synonymous. We have plenty bonefied americans who do that. And some aliens, of course. You need to figure out who your real enemy is.
      Hint: you vote for them every two years.
      Ditto on the average americano.

      • November 27, 2012 at 6:25 pm

        “Illegal Aliens” are just more people being told what to do by the “government.”

        We’ll need those people when the Chinese invade to take our women.

        • Texas Chris
          November 29, 2012 at 1:42 pm

          In all seriousness, that’s the biggest fear of the Russians right now.

          China has so overstressed the importance of male children that the male:female ratio is all out of whack. Those Chinese dudes are gonna want some female company, and Russia is chock full of both willing women and scum-of-the-earth guys that deserve to be alone.

          Buy some popcorn, this is gonna be entertaining.

        • November 30, 2012 at 5:49 am

          Don’t flatter yourself. Although there are individual exceptions, by and large Chinese men don’t want your women, and even find them repulsive (I feel a bit like that about the modern Hollywood ideal of good looks in women, all gaunt and gawky with wide mouths – but luckily those aren’t the only women around in the west). But if the Chinese take those women they do like from Central Asia, Mongolia, Korea, Japan and South-East Asia, you might get a knock on problem from their newly surplus men if the Chinese haven’t killed enough of them in the process.

    • Ed
      November 29, 2012 at 1:06 pm

      “PS: Janice got it right”

      Sorry, but that was Kris Kristofferson who wrote that song. He got it wrong, too. BTW, check out his website. He’s a dyed-in-the-wool Marxist and a bigtime Obama worshipper.

  11. freedserf
    November 27, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    Politician, Praetorian, Serf.

    The three classes of american society. Pick one, embrace it and succeed at it or move on.

    Fighting will get you killed,
    freedserf

    • MoT
      November 27, 2012 at 5:34 pm

      I’m always curious at the “handles” people pick for themselves. They are little microcosms, a testamony even, of their faith. So why call yourself a “freed serf”? Isn’t that a contradiction in and of itself? Just wondering.

      • freedserf
        November 28, 2012 at 9:29 am

        Freeing yourself is a never ending process when you have a blue passport with an eagle on the cover. Don’t want to be a Politician or a Praetorian.

        • November 28, 2012 at 12:30 pm

          Hi Freed,

          We’ve discussed this before, but: Is there any country left on this earth that formally (legally) respects the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights? In the social democracies of Western Europe, there is limited free speech (a contradiction in terms), and likewise property rights, etc. In some ways they are better – and in others, worse – than the USSA. In Central and South America, the individual suffers less in the way of petty busybody Cloverism (such as “buckle up for safety” laws) but property rights are also subject to numerous infringements and are as or perhaps more tenuous than here.

          Gun rights are much less in every country than they are here.

          So, what’s the point in leaving? You might obtain some temporary respite; obtain some peripheral liberty. But only because the apparatus of government in these countries is – for now – somewhat less efficient than it is here.

          I don’t see that you’re any more free – and in some ways, I think you’d be less free – than you are here.

          If there were a modern equivalent of circa 1950 America – far from perfectly free, of course but relative to today a virtual paradise of liberty – I’d move there as soon as I possibly could. But no such place exists, not that I am aware of, at any rate.

          If I am uninformed or mistaken, please show me.

          • MoT
            November 28, 2012 at 6:12 pm

            I have to think back to my years living and working in Japan. While there I’d take long walks at night after closing up the English school I worked at. I never once felt concerned that I’d ever be mugged or threatened. It was, for a country with such a strict hierarchical structure, the most refreshing thing I’ve ever felt in my life. Odd no? Three and a half years with a hell of a lot of strict rules and customs that are very much Prussian as to their origin. But a lot of it boils down to the people themselves. Certainly not perfect as murder, theft, corruption etc. still goes on as elsewhere. I remember several well publicized murders where a high schooler beat their parents to death with a baseball bat. It’s a good example of a disarmed nation if there ever was one. Having relatives and family there would make it tolerable but you’d be left with kitchen knives and home made spears. Like here the safest places are those out in the sticks and away from the bee hives.

          • Rooney
            November 28, 2012 at 6:40 pm

            I would like to know that myself.

          • Marin
            November 29, 2012 at 7:19 am

            Hello Eric,

            My wife and I have considered the ‘where to go’ for many years. We used to live in N.Virginia, and thought we would either head up to New Hampshire or out to the Northwest. But having come across some draconian Clover action in both states, we did make the final decision to leave (nor can we any longer allow or taxes to tear apart children in other places), sorry, just NO.

            Though it may not be perfect, we do consider Chile akin to the US in the 1950’s. A booming economy, highly productive farmland, natural beauty akin to Switz and New Zealand (seriously, I can drive from our just purchased farm to ski resorts high in the Andes in a little more than 2 hours and over to the Pacific coast in less than an hour where a small inexpensive sailboat will always be awaiting us if the need arises).

            Chile does allow gun ownership, but one must really apply for the additional license for a sportsman else you will be screwed if they catch you so much as driving the gun to the shooting range. Even so, there are assuredly much tighter gun laws and ammo is rationed. BUT, akin to your article, we do not ask permission for our additional quantities.

            Our land is fairly sizable, a few full sections as we would call them in the US. We are going to build on the farm in a like-minded community (there are a good number of US people working as a group to purchase and build adjacent to each other). Thus with the larger land size, we will have NO untenable neighbors. Our two 50cal’s and several shotguns are already down in Chile, and a few dozen 1k boxes of ammo. When I grow an extra nugget, I have one larger caliber to bring down, piece by piece. Its barrel is a bit longer and more difficult to conceal on the boat.

            Whatever your choice is for locale to ride the coming changes out, I wish you well. It will take us a good year or so to build this out but once completed, come pay us a visit and see what you think. Getting lost in our mountains you will never run into anyone other than one of the owners.

            Time will tell. I don’t think there is any perfect place. We will all confront Leviathan in our own time. I prefer it to be in a place, at a date and time, of my choosing. Truly I don’t think I would make it long in the US. The first regulatory Clover (or badge holder or or or) who comes on my property to check what I am doing on my land would be the last. But that is not how I wish things to end. When we (meaning all of us) get pushed too far, we end up fighting the lower tentacles of the Beast. This must stop. When you are pushed too far, when your line in the sand is crossed again and again and again, don’t waste your final ‘defense’ on the moron complaining about your land use, the local badge hassling your children, nor the local jackboots that may have just confiscated your property. Make each shot count. Aim for the head. Switch from the defensive mindset to the offense. The Borg (your Clovers) have millions, no, billions, of minions. We can never go one-on-one with them all. But in the head of the beast, there are not all that many. A few thousand? A few times that? There are hundreds of thousands of us with archaic definitions of honour and belief in Liberty. Now THAT is a fight the beast cannot win.

            Best regards, with thanks for your writings,
            Marin

          • November 29, 2012 at 11:10 am

            Hi Marin,

            I’ve heard good things about Chile and plan to look into it. Thank you for adding your thoughts. If possible, could you post some more details about the “lay of the land,” as far as things like the cost of a piece of land, taxes on land, how far (or close) one generally would want to be to a small to medium-sized population center, etc?

            Just for some perspective on our situation:

            We live in rural SW Virginia (not far from the NC border) up in the Appalachians (about 3,400 feet) on about 16 acres of land. We would want at least this much acreage (and ideally, more) in a similar type of location (mountainous) with a comparable house (about 3,400 sq. feet and “nice”). One of the things that inclines me to stay put is the prospect of exchanging what we have for a condo or apartment or some such ($500k buys you nothing in a place like Switzerland, for instance). I love being able to walk out onto my land and be alone – naked, if I feel like it. I’ve lived with neighbors 10 yards away – and never want to again.

            We pay about $1,500 annually in “rent” (real estate taxes) right now. What would taxes be like in Chile on a 20 acre spread?

            We’re partially self-sufficient in that we have our own well (water) and I chop wood on our land to use to heat our place in the winter. We currently have a small flock of chickens (about 33) and plan to acquire some goats, possibly even a few beef cattle.

            What would a place like this go for in Chile/in the area where you relocated?

          • Marin
            November 29, 2012 at 7:36 am

            One further note.

            You mention, Eric, that you don’t see other places as ‘more free’. Though I do understand it is mostly a factor of time (given enough time all places will be hell, lol), at least for the coming few decades, there will be no regulation of what i do and grow on a farm. No bureauRat wanting to vaccinate my goats, no nanny checking the breeds of chickens, very little in the way of monitoring with the exception of spot-checks on quality for produce being sold into commercial market.

            Can you imagine the headaches and liabilities we would shoulder in the US to be farming cow, goat, chicken, bee, horses (for riding only, lol), as well as a broad spectrum of organic produce (avocado, grape, olive, citrus, blueberry, tomato, plum, nuts, etc) for commercial sale? At least for us, and seemingly for a few decades, we may produce in peace without constant attacks by the State. I will enjoy my raw milk, my micro-brew beer, my cigar, and a few more illicit items without fear of being dropped into a cage.

            I don’t know quite how to convey the feeling, but I do “feel” more free in quite a number of other places. At least I am not the specific tax-cow of the host government and they tend not to be out-to-get-me. In the US, yes, they most cetainly are out-to-get-me or at least as much int he way of fines, penalties, taxes, and forfeitures as they can. Ugh…

            Regards,
            Marin

          • November 29, 2012 at 1:38 pm

            “Is there any country left on this earth that formally (legally) respects the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights?”

            I’ve looked in to this a bit. The hardest right to find respected elsewhere is that of keeping and bearing arms. Europe is a lost cause short of total collapse and subsequent restructuring. Switzerland is the lone bright spot, but getting Swiss citizenship is neigh impossible. Outside of Switzerland, Uruguay has the freest gun laws. Another good thing about Uruguay is that it’s not strategically located and it has no oil, so it’s not likely to be invaded by do-gooder countries.

            That said, I think it’s only a matter of time before all countries succumb to a global tyranny. Atheists can stop reading here. My personal belief is that we are about to see the beginning of what is commonly referred to as the biblical end times, so I’d guess that soon enough no place will be truly safe or free.

          • November 29, 2012 at 2:09 pm

            Hi Flick,

            I’ve looked into Switzerland – because I have a Swiss passport. Problem is, Switzerland is insanely expensive. We could not afford anything even close to what we have here – which is a 16 acre spread and a 3,400 sq. ft. house (with another – smaller – house on the property). I’d have to be a millionaire to even begin to be able to afford something comparable in Switzerland. $500k will buy you a nice – but small – condo. Owning a single family detached home and any acreage is all but out of the question.

          • November 29, 2012 at 1:47 pm

            Eric, I have concluded that there may be only one way to truly own one’s own home. It’s a plan I’ve been working on for a year or so now but my wife is adamantly opposed to giving up our 5 acres and garden and chickens for it. If I had my way, I’d sell our current place and buy a 40-45′ catamaran and register it in some out-of-the-way country (Kiribati, the Seychelles, Brunei?). My first destination would be Indonesia, but the beauty of a sailboat is that you can pick up and go at a moment’s notice if things get unpleasant where you are.

            Despite my wife’s unwillingness, I’m working on acquiring some freelance jobs that would provide sufficient income and enable me to stay at home …. or work from anywhere in the world where I can get Internet access.

            “Should I stay or should I go?”
            -The Clash

          • methylamine
            November 29, 2012 at 5:50 pm

            @marin–

            I am drooling at what you describe of life in Chile.

            Did you join one of the existing “Galt’s Gulches”? I know Jeff Berwick is working quickly on his, and Simon Black as well. Berwick’s is across some mountains from Santiago, about an hour’s drive, and Black’s is a couple of hours from Santiago and near a smaller (200,000) city.

            Would you be so kind as to indulge a few questions?

            For example: are you fluent in Spanish? What are the property taxes? Can you just show up, buy land, and live there–or is there an elaborate ritual to obtain residency permits?

            I’ve asked around about the gun laws; they’re better than most in S. America, but my understanding was that my “assault” rifles would not be welcome, much less my fifty-cal.

            My answer to myself was “sailboat, shovel, shut-up”…sounds like it’s your answer, too.

            That’s one helluva sail, though; what route do you take?

            Thank you! Even if I don’t bail out to Chile, at least I’ll have more knowledge.

            Right now we’re back in the “fuck you, it’s our country and you can’t have it!” mode…and if it were just us against the criminal government, we’d win. But I’m always on the fence; sure, the NWO will be everywhere once they get America, but it will collapse eventually. Why not live out the decade or two on a peaceful, productive farm homeschooling my kids instead of dodging Stasi and living in constant fear?

          • methylamine
            November 29, 2012 at 5:59 pm

            @marin:

            The first regulatory Clover (or badge holder or or or) who comes on my property to check what I am doing on my land would be the last. But that is not how I wish things to end.

            Precisely, Exactly my thoughts! But why waste someone as valuable to the cause of liberty as one of us–who are force multipliers, people who will sway five, or ten, or ten thousand (in Eric’s case) to the cause of liberty…on ONE measly minion?

            And yet, if they came for my guns or my children…

            And that’s why my internal voice shouts inside my head at least once a week, “get out get Out GET OUT!

            Because what IF I keep agitating? Keep showing up at airports handing out anti-TSA literature, keep writing, keep convincing neighbors, keep giving Alex Jones literature to every cop and military I see? Keep gardening, buying raw milk, refusing vaccines for the kids?

          • BrentP
            November 30, 2012 at 12:57 am

            I believe a boat opens one up to a wide variety of thuggish government enforcers and bureaucrats above and beyond a home on land.

          • ray
            December 3, 2012 at 2:13 am

            Marin,

            My wife and I have recently made the decision to begin the process of getting out – among other things I cannot stomach our “foreign policy” of murder either. Hopefully it is not too late. Chile came first to mind and we have started researching what our options will be. Of course, it would be nice to have some like-minded people to ban together with as you alluded to. Re: building, I am a contractor and think that my skills would be a welcome addition to many a group. I’d be glad for the opportunity to converse in one way or another with you. In any case your post re-enforces my hopes and plan for the future.

            Thanks and good luck,
            Ray

    • November 27, 2012 at 6:26 pm

      America has only 2 classes:
      The Investment class (and)
      The Investment.

      • MoT
        November 27, 2012 at 7:35 pm

        In other words you have the Farmer and his cattle.

        • Ed
          November 29, 2012 at 1:08 pm

          Yep, and we’re expected to be milk cows until they want us for beef.

    • DD
      November 29, 2012 at 7:19 pm

      The three classes of american society.

      Political Terrorists
      Praetorian
      Expendable Tax Livestock

      You can move up this hierarchy but The Terrorists will not allow you to move down…You don’t want the demoted telling the Tax Livestock that they are slaves…A Jesse Ventura type Rabble-Rouser.

  12. Don Cooper
    November 27, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    “This irrational denial of facts” – this is almost the precise definition of delusional.

    That should scare the hell out of you.

    • Boothe
      November 27, 2012 at 7:25 pm

      Coop, it used to scare me but not anymore. We humans tend to be creatures of habit and resist change. When we are taught that a thing is true from childhood (particulary before age 10) we embrace it as fact even though it may be nothing more than a dogmatic religious conviction. When you challenge that deeply held belief, the “true believer” pushs back; logic, facts and reason be damned.

      I went to the IRS offices in Richmond, Virginia back in 1996 and asked them to show me the actual “income tax”, chapter and verse in the CFR, that they claimed I was liable for. They couldn’t do it. I’ve actually seen IRS agents sweat on their own turf. But if I don’t pay tributum to Caesar, even though I know there is no law that requires me too, Rome will eventually send men with guns to my home and kill me. These men will kill me because, even though I’m literally right, they believe what they’ve been told by the “authorities.” What the written law actually says is too complicated for them and therefor irrelevant. Our present system is ingeniously deceptive and therefore evil in its purest form, because it causes men who believe they’re upholding the law to commit real crimes of property and violence against their fellow countrymen in good conscience.

      And so it goes for much of the rest of the public. I’ve challenged coworkers to “show me the law” on taxes and many other subjects. They never can. But they DO get angry and respond with “Well I know (or “everyone” knows) it’s the law” or “I’m not a lawyer!”, that they don’t have time to look it up, etc. Just because a thing isn’t true is apparently no good reason not to believe it…

      • Don Cooper
        November 28, 2012 at 1:38 pm

        “Just because a thing isn’t true is apparently no good reason not to believe it” – so, so true.

        Put another way: “Just saying it repeatedly makes it so”

        This is the media’s modus operandi. They are still referring to hurricane Sandy as a “Super Storm”. Trying to condition people’s thoughts about a cat 2 hurricane that was downgraded to a tropical storm when it hit land. Katrina was a cat 5 hurricane but never called a super storm.

        When I continuously hear things like that on TV it’s really disturbing how many in the media agree to do this sort of thing and how many just stare glaringly at the TV going “super storm, super storm” as if in a trance.

        • BrentP
          November 28, 2012 at 3:02 pm

          And all we have to do is pay Al Gore and his ilk carbon indulgences and these killer storms will go away.

          I need to figure out a way to get paid for Chicago weather swings…. 20 today 60 tomorrow… A dollar a degree for everyone in cook county… that will work.

        • methylamine
          November 28, 2012 at 3:17 pm

          The weather/sun scam is thousands of years old.

          High priests, shamans, and witch doctors studied astronomy and knew when eclipses would come. “The snake god will swallow the sun god tomorrow! Bring your children to sacrifice and I’ll save the sun!”

          Forward three thousand years…

          …”Pay me, Al Gore, carbon taxes and I’ll save the world from burning up! Sacrifice your children to infinite debt or the world will burn!”

          Amazing that it works.

          But I think global warming nee “climate change” (gotta love non-falsifiable precepts) has given itself a terminal black eye. Unless my sample is grossly skewed, it seems fewer and fewer people are buying it.

          What’s ya’ll’s impression? Is it gaining or losing ground?

          • Boothe
            November 28, 2012 at 4:15 pm

            Methyl, thanks to the Internet, Wikileaks, the “hockey stick graph” fiasco, the “climate gate” debacle and 8th grade science (back when I was a lad) many folks have become skeptical and some downright cynical about it. I point out that CO2 is plant food and that a “carbon” tax is a tax on breathing. I remind my contemporaries that we used to joke about that as kids; but it’s no joke now. When you explain that the costs of fuel, electricity and manufactured products will go up for us at the consumer level if this passes into law, you usually get nods of agreement now.

          • MoT
            November 28, 2012 at 6:17 pm

            Oh but they still spew out the “climate change” argument as though it’s a settled fact. Whenever I see some travel program and some knucklehead starts yammering about carbon emissions or being carbon neutral I want to reach through the screen and strangle them. It’s pure propaganda. Now I’ve heard some peeps about water quality up in the northwest off of the coast and all. The same scare tactics as with the “warming” that in my younger days was touted as “cooling”. Confused yet? They can’t get their so-called facts straight in thirty to forty years but they sure as shit can forecast our eminent demise for the next century. It’s all about following the money and if a politician is pushing it then you KNOW it’s a lie.

      • November 29, 2012 at 11:34 pm

        The way people run swiftly on their fat little legs to believe lies and do evil makes me hate their stinking rotten guts.

  13. Steve White
    November 27, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    A slight refinement to this excellent article would be to differentiate between federal laws and state laws. Under the original idea of the Constitution, the feds have very little to do with criminal law and State procedures.

    The only requirement for the States was that they must guarantee a “republican form of government” for the citizens of the State. With a few exceptions (treason, for example), most everything else was left to the people of each State to decide.

    So, while gun rights ARE a federal issue because of the 2nd amendment, marriage is NOT. The people of a given State could decide if they wanted marriage to be a matter for the State (bad idea in my opinion) or not.

    The Feds have so wildly expanded their power that almost no one even considers this fact. The distinction between Federal and State government is just routinely ignored and we citizens just keep taking it from all sides.

    It’s possible that some people will start to pay attention to this issue now that several States are passing laws that directly conflict with Federal laws (such as pot laws). It’s always fun to watch the hypocrite Liberals complain that the central government is too big!

    We should have had the power to control most of these issues at the State level. In the Energy Policy Act of 1992, the Feds tell us how much water we can flush after taking a dump. Where EXACTLY is the Crapper Power in the Constitution?? It’s insanity.

    The Feds might as well require that, after that dump and before that “low flow” flush, we all wipe our asses WITH THE CONSTITUTION so we clearly understand how they view it.

    • November 27, 2012 at 6:32 pm

      Constitutional paper for the morning constitutional!

      GWB outlined the value of this piece of paper.

      The Declaration of Independence is the design specification and the Constitution the implementation. America is still in BETA.

      Don’t rely on government software.

      • MoT
        November 27, 2012 at 7:39 pm

        I’d think that after this long the testing cycle has proven there are too many bugs in an unstable system. The source code is corrupt, undocumented, proprietary, and all of the coders are dead. The hard drive is about to crash and we need a hard reboot.

        • methylamine
          November 27, 2012 at 7:55 pm

          LOL MoT!

          It’s worse–being a government job, it’s written in Ada–that deplorable POS language only government could have invented.

          I’ve sometimes speculated with my lawyer friends why there isn’t a formal programming language for law that follows proper Backus–Naur Form.

          Backus–Naur Form is a formal description of grammars that allows no ambiguity…or minimizes it. It’s testable, consistent, and compilable; it’s the essence of a computer language that permits no gray zones.

          It would have puked up the Hamiltonian wiggle-word phrases “general welfare”, the commerce clause, and several others.

          • MoT
            November 27, 2012 at 8:07 pm

            Ada!… Aaaarrghhh!.. (clawing at eyes). I forgot about that. It reminds me of that old joke that a camel is a horse designed by committee. My stints in IT have over the decades proven time and again that nobody really listens to those who know what’s going on and who’ll in the end be forced to pay for it one way or the other. Much like government, eh?

          • methylamine
            November 27, 2012 at 8:17 pm

            Oh even better! Here’s an Ada programmer at work (I hope they allow a hotlink):

          • methylamine
            November 27, 2012 at 8:18 pm

            Looks like they won’t allow it.

            Click here to see my hard-at-work Ada programmer.

  14. Joshua Witter
    November 27, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    Amazing articles every day. FYI: I would love to share these on Facebook, but the preview being generated is broken and people tend to ignore links I post with no preview.

  15. IndividualAudienceMember
    November 27, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    the anti-snitch book, is now live:

    DON’T LET A SNITCH
    WRECK YOUR LIFE!
    This FREE ebook could help keep you out of prison.

    http://rats-nosnitch.com/

    You know, the state works Very hard to use snitches to catch you doing something without permission, petty little things even, so, beware.

    • Boothe
      November 28, 2012 at 2:41 am

      Thanks for the link IAM. I’ve read quite a bit of Claire Wolfe’s work and she’s definitely got it together. That book’s a keeper and I’ll forward it to all the interested parties I know. Anything we can do to thwart the burgeoning police state we need to do. Being aware and making as many others as we can aware of the system’s techniques, tactics and markers is tantamount to defeating them.

  16. November 27, 2012 at 6:35 pm

    Thanks for a very good article read and for the forum to comment.

  17. Brad Smith
    November 27, 2012 at 7:26 pm

    Eric, great read and 100% spot on. From the time you wake up till the time you go to bed you are playing that exact game. Seriously, you can’t eat oatmeal for breakfast without it having the government’s stamp of approval on it. Stop at McDonald’s and you pay extra so they can tell you it’s loaded full of calories and fat. No shit really? Before you go to bed at night you might turn on the TV but don’t expect to find anything that isn’t Godvernment approved.

    I could go on and on, but obviously we both know the deal.

    • Don Cooper
      November 27, 2012 at 8:50 pm

      I wrote a column for LRC a few years back that enumerates move, by move what the gov’t controls in our lives from the time you wake up to the time you go to bed.

      Google: Don Cooper thank god we live in a free country. It’s been reposted on a number of websites.

      • MoT
        November 27, 2012 at 9:49 pm

        Don, I remember it well.

        • Don Cooper
          November 27, 2012 at 9:53 pm

          And I missed a lot in that article. I was thinking about it later. Those were just the ones that I could think of at the time.

          There are so many dept’s and bureaus and offices and agencies and … it’s never ending.

          • Mike in Spotsy
            November 27, 2012 at 11:53 pm

            Not to worry, Don: if you tried to include absolutely everything in our daily lives that the government meddles in, you’d still be writing the article.

      • Mike in Spotsy
        November 27, 2012 at 9:53 pm

        I remember reading that article. I think this is the one you’re referring to: http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig9/cooper1.html

        • Don Cooper
          November 27, 2012 at 9:54 pm

          Yassir!

          • liberranter
            November 28, 2012 at 5:08 pm

            And what an article it is! While you only scratched the surface, that’s all anyone can do. As Mike in Spotsy says, if any of us tried to catalog ALL of the nannyisms we put up with every day, we’d be at it for the rest of our natural lives.

      • Brad Smith
        November 28, 2012 at 2:54 am

        Thanks for your good work. I have read it and others by you. I have been a fan of Lew’s site for years. I hardly go a day without checking in to see what’s up.

  18. GT
    November 27, 2012 at 8:15 pm

    The following is not correct in law: “By having conceded that you need to beg permission, you become party to a binding legal contract – whether you see it that way or not is immaterial.”

    There are at least two – and more likely three – competing common law principles: consent, duress and (possibly) conscionability.

    Consent cannot be imputed by compliance, silence or absence of action: this overturns the ages-old maxim “Qui tacet consentire videtur, ubi loqui debuit ac potuit” (he who is silent, is seen to consent: he ought to have when he was able to”).

    Where there is duress, consent is presumed absent and any ‘contract’ entered into is void: this is the (still-observed) principle “actus me invito factus, non est meus actus” (“an act done against my will, is not my act”). In all interactions with the State, duress is a given, since the State is known to harass, cage and kill dissenters (depending on what it thinks it can get away with at the time).

    The third principle, that of conscionability in contract law (and common law generally), says that if a party to an agreement could reasonably have foreseen that his counterparty did not understand the contract (or key parts thereof), the contract (or the parts in question) are unenforceable at law. Given that LISS and ALSS surveys both show that only about 16% of western adults are capable of reading at levels of comprehension above 8th grade, MOST contracts would fail this test if it was raised more often.

    In Salic/Roman law jurisdictions, there is also the principle called the exceptio non adimplenti contractus – whereby if one party to a synallagmatic (bilateral) contract fails to perform, the other party is not obliged to continue to perform. Given that the State routinely fails to do what it says it will, and routinely changes the terms of the contract as its whim suits, the State is almost constantly in breach of contract and thus cannot seek to demand specific performance by the citizen, of the contract (to the extent that it exists) between State and citizen.

    And lastly but not leastly, from Canon law we get “fidem frangenti fides frangitur” or “frangenti fidem fides frangatur eidem” (“break faith with [all] those who have broken faith”): the State (and the political-parasite class) breaks faith with we serfs ALL THE TIME, and as such we serfs have not only a right, but a moral DUTY, to refuse to deal with them. This is one of the principles that inspired Jefferson’s “when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

    Not just a right, but a DUTY.

    Let your government know you consider them in breach and that you are not bound by them until they remedy the breach. I did (in 1995).

    • methylamine
      November 27, 2012 at 8:42 pm

      An entirely excellent post, GT, thank you!

      I love the richness of our history; every time I hear the original truths behind our rights my admiration for men like Jefferson grows. They understood this and they lived by it.

      How did you notify them they’re in breach–and more importantly, withdraw your consent–in 1995?

    • MoT
      November 27, 2012 at 9:06 pm

      And yet what can one expect from people who define and interpret the “law” on the fly? It’s as substantive as the wind to us who know better but enforced with great vigor by these lying swine and their henchmen. That is why I despise the atmosphere in this country and it’s obsession with what is “legal”. Legal this and legal that. Legal to who? The Feds? Their teat-sucking groupies? Just because some robed goon says so? It’s absurd.

      • Don Cooper
        November 27, 2012 at 10:05 pm

        Ask the gov’t why you have to pay taxes and they’ll say because it’s the law. And who made the law? The gov’t!

        Nice work if you can get it I suppose. Of course you have to be a souless, heartless, immoral trogolodyte.

        I don’t know why they even bother with laws anymore. Wouldn’t it be easier for them to just issue mandates like a president does with an EO? That’s what they’re really doing anyway so save some trees.

        People are obsessed with what’s legal. Ask somebody a question and normally the first words out of their mouth will be “well legally”. I didn’t ask you about the law, I asked you what YOU think. :))) People kill me.

        • Tinsley Grey Sammons
          November 28, 2012 at 1:28 am

          Thanx for a great Keeper.

          tgsam

          • Tinsley Grey Sammons
            November 28, 2012 at 1:30 am

            “I didn’t ask you about the law, I asked you what YOU think.”

            A great KEEPER. Bet Ayn Rand would agree.

            tgsam

      • Tinsley Grey Sammons
        November 28, 2012 at 1:40 am

        Anything can be legal. But to be lawful, a thing must not shock Conscience or offend Common Sense.

        tgsam

        • mamba
          November 28, 2012 at 1:02 pm

          Remember, everything the Nazi party did was 100% legal as well. They wrote laws on it and everything!

          The Spartians had it coded into their laws that they were required to beat their slaves. Not “have permission”…REQUIRED to beat them. If you did not want to beat your slave, you were in violation of the law and ironically probably be beaten for it by the local equivilant of “cop”.

          Obviously “legal” has no standing as a basis of decency in ANY action because anything can be legal. You just get a gouvernment to say it is.

          • November 28, 2012 at 1:06 pm

            Exactly so, Mamba –

            For liberty to resurrect in this country (or anywhere) people must re-learn the distinction between legal – and right (and wrong).

            A thing can be absolutely legal – and utterly wrong. And the reverse.

            Such a simple thing – once you’ve actually thought about it a little. Unfortunately, all too many people don’t think about it. Clover is the archetype. For him – and his kind – all that matters is “the law.” They will make perfect slaves – and horrific masters.

          • BrentP
            November 28, 2012 at 2:52 pm

            If the clover only considered the law, the written law, that would be a predictable functional rule book. But the clover doesn’t do that. The clover socially interprets the law. Certain laws are to be used against certain people but not these other people.

            The clovers are perfectly fine with congress exempting themselves from the law, perfectly fine with government workers getting all sorts of specials. They love tool laws so long as they are used on those bad people over there and not them.

            Our resident troll, Clover, expresses such social interpretation frequently. It routinely tosses the law under the bus in favor of some sort of bizarre social interpretation of right of way. Clover argues that traffic already in a lane or already on the roadway must yield, brake, move, for traffic entering the roadway or lane. Why? it’s based on who Clover dislikes or likes or who is behaving like Clover. There’s really no law in clover-land but what those with power say when they say it.

            Cloverland I content is functionally without law. It’s a pre magna carta system. A time without such things as due process and where those who didn’t socially conform were tried and executed as witches.

            The cloverian ‘law is the law’ is just a wedge. Just a way for them to have people they don’t like punished. The news media runs regular stories about how some ‘good person’ is unfairly punished by the written law. How can that happen? Someone in the system enforced the written law, instead of the clover law. Even cops enforce the clover law.

            Law enforcement doesn’t care that in the written law the income tax isn’t legal. It doesn’t care if the car stored in your driveway complies with all the written laws. Sure maybe you can win in court later on some things if you hire a good enough lawyer. Maybe. But the clover still believes you are in violation of the law. Who’s law? Clover’s law. You’re a bad person and clovers will punish you. But that guy over there? Bob? He’s a clover, he’s a good guy. He’ll get that piece of crap car fixed up… you can count on Bob. No need to apply the law to him.

            As a bicyclist I’ve found myself as the target of those clovers who take it upon themselves to enforce the clover law. See, I am not driving, not conforming. Worse is taking my place in a queue at a stop. That’s not showing proper submission. This angers clovers. I am following the written law, but not the clover social law. Not what they believe the law to be.

            So I disagree that the clovers see only the law. They see their own morality or lack there of as the law. Their own desire to impose social order and conformity as the law… the actual written law is irrelevant to them. If we could count on the written law, no matter how unfree, we would have a significant wedge over them. Instead they are more simple, just plain force.

          • November 28, 2012 at 4:46 pm

            Brent,

            I think you make a good point about Clover – which I’d expand on a little by suggesting it derives from Clover’s fundamentally emotional, irrational outlook. People like you and I base our positions on reason; on facts – and principles applied to particulars. This almost makes it inevitable that one will see, for instance, the incongruity of “the law” making, say, theft when done by the collective acceptable (moral, even) while when theft committed by an individual is criminal.

            Cloverism results from many things, but I suspect it is chiefly the consequence of a low IQ combined with laziness.

          • Rooney
            November 28, 2012 at 7:04 pm

            Brent,

            You have a good point about the social and emotional interpretation of the law by clovers. I think it comes from early ’70’s psychobabble. “But how do you FEEL about this?” Throw in early emphasis on “self esteem”, “validation of your inner child”, and sports where “everyone is a winner” and you get clovers.

  19. GT
    November 27, 2012 at 8:34 pm

    Oh, one final point (on the tendency of the .gov scum to change the terms of this supposed ‘social contract’ if it suits them).

    It is a well-understood principle of contract law that the terms of a contract must be (1) explicit; (2) concrete; and (3) known to both parties prior to the execution of the contract.

    This is why terms that require that one of the parties “agrees-to-agree” to future (post-execution) changes in terms are always held to be unenforceable if challenged.

    It is not legitimate – ever – to unilaterally change the terms of a contract ex post facto, and then pretend that the counterparty(ies) is/are bound by the contract as of old.

    I have long mulled the idea of taking this fight on through the ‘courts’ (the mediaeval set-piece theatrical productions undertaken to scare the polity, and to make the State monopoly on the law seem noble or grand or sacred or dignified or whatever)… but I would bet my bottom dollar that the robed geriatrics would not deign to hear their paymasters calumniated: nothing prevents a man from understanding a thing more than if his livelihood depends on him not understanding it.

    • MoT
      November 27, 2012 at 8:57 pm

      Yes. It’s not that they’re unable to understand but they choose not to. It’s not that they “can’t” but they “won’t”. A matter of will and not of ability.

    • liberranter
      November 28, 2012 at 10:33 pm

      EXACTLY, GT. Entire industries and institutions are based on this maxim. Definitely an addition to the “1000 Greatest Quotable Quotes of All Time.”

      • liberranter
        November 28, 2012 at 10:34 pm

        [N]othing prevents a man from understanding a thing more than if his livelihood depends on him not understanding it.

        This is the maxim I was referring to. Sorry I neglected to quote it.

  20. Tor Munkov
    November 28, 2012 at 4:29 am

    Re: Marx spent time drinking, gambling, catching STDs having illegitimate offspring.

    We are marked for termination, mainly because we consent to living under a Hypo-cracy. There are no wigwams or teepees. 3 billion humans live in abodes of natural materials, but not here.

    Why am I to apologize or ask forgiveness because.I took home circa. 2000 women between 1991-2000. I did some work for a doctor and got wome medical service as barter, but I don’t even concede there is an STD, it’s just a scientistic fear concept.

    I have no debts, but often have “Jewed” people out of their literal stutory proceeds, caveat emptor and such. The Old Testament was written by Jews during their Babylonian exile under Persian decree.

    I submit that you re-examine all your inherited values from the “Good Book” (now available for $70 shekels if you act now).

    Karma is railing about “The Whore of Babylon” in your literature while living in a dream metropolis you have no part in constructing and maintaining.

    I consider myself below the mean in morals, as they are currently arranged in heirarchy, yet at no point have I taken anything from anyone by state force. There is a hidden statism that keeps our streets barren of children, vendors, and solicitors. To not call this abolitionist is the height of Hypo-cracy, and will be many gun owner tax hater’s undoing and fatal conceit.

    You are a nuisance to the state. You have empowered the state to abolish nuisances. The Indians were once nuisances. Now they’re a distant memory. Just like you Hypo-crats and you New Testament based Hypo-cracy will soon be.

  21. Alex ++
    November 28, 2012 at 7:38 am

    You don’t need the state’s permission to marry – traditionally all you need is a father’s or guardian’s permission. Bypass the ‘license’ and draw up a contract and then have a ceremony before your joint friends and families. Legal issues, like not being allowed to make decisions for your mate when they’re incapacitated or acting on your behalf with the kids, are dealt with through a General power of Attorney to your mate, and they to you.

    Have your kids delivered through a midwife if you want to avoid the hospital expense and hassle, barring some preexisting conditions that require hospitalization.

    When your parents register you for an SSN in a hospital, a trust with the same name is created, with you, the living man as the trustee. Once you commit your first signatory act in conjunction with that SSN number – give it to an employer when you get a job, open a bank account, etc… – you are acting as the trustee, and when a trustee acts, it is the trust that acts. So, anything you purchase, accumulate or contract to using that number feeds the trust. Think of your bank accounts, real estate purchased with a check from said accounts, mortgage applications with the SSN# on the paperwork, everything, simply accumulates assets for the trust – it doesn’t belong to you, that’s why you pay income taxes, property taxes, capital gains taxes, etc… you’re renting these assets, using them to increase the holdings of the trust, and as far as the government is concerned, they own 100% of these assets, you just have preferential use of these assets in order to maximize earnings.

    Fix this by purchasing land through a private contract from an individual, without the inclusion of the SSN# on the papers. I’ve heard it said that you should pay with gold and silver, though I don’t think that’s necessary – people can agree on any medium of exchange. Then get a land patent on that property, right quick. These people will sell you the forms you need to file a land patent, but you can do it yourself if you’re willing to do a bit of research on the internet.
    http://teamlaw.net/land.htm
    http://teamlawforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3

    Build an earthbag or strawbale house on the land, which is hard work, but cheap, and avoids a mortgage and the associated paperwork. I’ve even seen hand presses which let you make compressed earth bricks if you want a traditional construction technique, and when you’ve built your house, resell the press. Taxes are a contractual matter, which most people pay without any second thoughts, even if they’re not warranted.

    If your skills allow you to work outside the corporate structure, you’re not required to act in your capacity of a trustee, because there’s no corporation requiring you fill out their paperwork – you work for yourself and if you’re honest and skilled, word of mouth travels fast. Think plumbers, electricians, carpenters, dentists, doctors, anyone with a useful skill.

    As far as firearm carry goes, that depends of where you are located. In many of the western states and Alaska open carry is no problem, and concealed carry is common outside of city/town limits. In Arizona concealed carry is considered lawful even in town, and I hear Idaho, Wyoming, and Alaska are moving that way. To get things moving that way in other places, East Coast, South would take committed people who would be willing to go out in groups, armed, to public places, while friends video tape the encounters both overtly and covertly. They will be arrested, and they should all understand that fact, and all fight it in court, with financial support from all other gun owners in that state as well as lawyers to sue the state and lobby groups winning political support for open carry. This would have to be done over and over again.

    There’s always a way out, if you’re not plugged in to the traditional expectations: go to school with loans you have to pay back, get legally married with the state as the controlling partner, take out a 30 year mortgage, etc…

    • November 28, 2012 at 10:06 am

      Hi Alex,

      I agree with all of this – in principle.

      But in fact, there’s just no way to get around having a SS number – unless you can find people willing to pay you in cash. And even then, you risk prosecution – and are limited to forms of employment that, in the main, will only provide a subsistence life (such as manual labor).

      Good luck buying – or holding onto – property (land/home) with your all-cash income – and without providing an SS number and without paying taxes.

      It is impossible to get a bank account these days without the damn SS number/government ID.

      That said, I applaud anyone for trying to avoid these affront to our rights – and at some point, the only way to recover our rights will be for enough of us to simply ignore the state and refuse to comply – come what may.

  22. Don Cooper
    November 28, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    “For liberty to resurrect in this country (or anywhere) people must re-learn the distinction between legal – and right (and wrong).”

    This reality took me by surprise a few years ago when I realized that so many grown adults – with children – do not know the difference between right(s) and wrong(s). What are they teaching their kids?

    For many the law is the law and it defines right(s). For many others it’s what they “feel” is right. Well hell, everyone “feels” differently about things.

    That was when the extent of public school indoctrination and media conditioning became clear to me, and it was sobering.

    • November 28, 2012 at 1:30 pm

      Don,

      For me also.

      It is truly daunting that so many people – and specifically, so many “educated” adults (including, for instance, my own PhD father-in-law) have either never stopped to consider the difference or simply don’t care.

      I have asked such people: If it is wrong (morally) for one individual to take another individual’s property (theft) then how does the same thing become right when it is done under color of “the law”?

      The invariable response is hostility or dismissiveness. “Well, it’s different,” they’ll tell you. Really? How so? “It just is.” Or – if they’re a bit smarter – “It’s not theft when the majority approves it; we have all given consent and have representation; it’s the price of civilization…” and so on.

      • Tinsley Grey Sammons
        November 28, 2012 at 1:59 pm

        THE GREAT MORAL DISCONNECT

        NUMSKULL: Hmm . . . Conscience and consequence forbids me to do it, but if I can get government to do it . . .

        CRITICAL THINKER: Actually Numskull, if you get government to do it you become an accessory in the fact.

        tgsam (1936 –)

        • November 28, 2012 at 4:49 pm

          We have to keep articulating – defending – the basic premise of natural law: no victim, no crime. All else follows from this – including that it is impermissible – morally – to deprive any person of his rights, because the consequence of that is you’ve created a victim. Which means, you have committed a crime.

          In one fell swoop, any law depriving a person of his property or his freedom of action, for any reason, suddenly becomes morally illegitimate, because it requires that individuals be victimized – which means, such laws are inherently criminal.

          • Tor Munkov
            December 3, 2012 at 3:05 am

            I don’t want to jinx myself, but one day I came across the right girl and the allure of skewed morality mostly abated for me.

            This is not to say my girl with dragon tattoos would get a thumbs up from any of you, but what kind of weirdo lives for vertical phallangic approval gestures from his fellow man-bear-pig-apes, anyway.

        • liberranter
          November 28, 2012 at 5:21 pm

          The problem is that most people refuse to allow themselves to see the truth. Why? Because if they were to acknowledge the Natural Law, the fact that immorality committed under color of the will of the majority is STILL immorality, then they are depriving themselves of the ability to, as Bastiat put it, “live at the expense of everyone else.” Because living at everyone else’s expense is the core essence of not only Amerika, but the entire Western World today, any acknowledgement of the Natural Law would, in the mind of the Clover, lead to a collapse of “civilization” as he has always understood it. Since Clover is intolerant of societal change, especially such “change” that would make his personality type unsustainable, the status quo must be maintained at all costs, no matter how much aggressive and destructive violence against others sustaining such change requires.

          • November 28, 2012 at 6:43 pm

            Hi Liberranter,

            Yes, that’s it. Probably, many of them could not deal with it psychologically. That their entire lives have been a lie – and based on plunder. Imagine being, say, in your 50s or 60s and realizing that. To come to terms with it would mean stopping – and giving up future plunder (and so on). In effect, starting over. That’s too much for most people. So the denial/defense mechanism kicks in. I’ve seen it in operation

            I thank god (metaphorically speaking) that I figured out the con early on – and my life has never been based on parasitism at gunpoint, plunder or collectivism. I may not be rich, but what I have I took from no one. The money I earn is freely given in exchange for the work I do. No one is forced to pay me. This fact makes me morally clean in a way that a “public servant” or anyone else who lives off others by violence can never be. It allows me to feel righteous contempt for those who do live by force – whose existence is made possible only by violence and threats of violence, however euphemized.

          • Rooney
            November 28, 2012 at 7:09 pm

            “civilization” is overrated.

          • DD
            November 28, 2012 at 7:13 pm

            Right…Stupid parasitic brats (Clovers) don’t do well in a free and civil society…They get ostracized by peaceful and productive adults and starve. Political Terrorism is the only thing that can keep these little Clover assholes alive so they vote for murdering terrorists that promise to steal for them. Living in a Democracy is like living in a tent full of angry and hungry mosquitoes.

          • November 28, 2012 at 7:49 pm

            Napoleon chose the beehive as his symbol for good reason -

          • Lex Rex
            November 29, 2012 at 5:25 pm

            Apathy and being content to steal anothers bread. decay of morals and accountability to our creator and his law. the constitution was a call to action on all the above it wont work unless the people are virtuous. G. Washington

  23. liberranter
    November 28, 2012 at 5:13 pm

    Eric said:

    Cloverism results from many things, but I suspect it is chiefly the consequence of a low IQ combined with laziness.

    I would only add “selfishness” to the above, but otherwise a perfect definition. Thanks, Eric!

    • DD
      November 28, 2012 at 8:28 pm

      Cloverism, I suspect, is a combination of laziness and – simultaneously – the desire not to be ostracized into starvation. They are retarded parasitic brats / violent psychopaths. Low IQ really has nothing to do with it…A lot of these psychopaths are intelligent.

      • November 29, 2012 at 12:13 am

        The elites who manipulate Clovers are intelligent – but the typical Clover himself is sub-par. A review of the posts on this blog provides support for this assertion. The non-Clovers’ posts are invariably two things: Coherently constructed and well-reasoned. Clover posts, meanwhile, are almost invariably borderline illiterate (if not outright illiterate), suffused with egregious grammar, spelling and usage errors. They are also Swiss-cheesed with childish errors of logic and outright sloppy thinking (if you can even call it that). It’s not that Clovers are stupid. They’re just not very smart. An average or below average brain is more disposed to accepting – and spouting – dogmas that above-average brains tend to question – and eventually, see through.

        As an aside: There is a known correlation between lower intelligence and poor impulse control, as well as a greater tendency to lash out violently when frustrated.

        • Libertymike
          November 30, 2012 at 12:56 am

          Eric-

          Have you ever perused the Volokh Conspiracy blog? The blog is the enterprise of UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh and several other law professors. Professor Volokh is generally considered a First Amendment expert with “libertarian” leanings.

          The blog’s commentariat consists of practicing lawyers, law professors, law students as well as other generally, in my view, well educated folks.

          However, Cloverism permeates the posts on almost every thread. Why, just yesterday or the day before, I posted the following on a thread the subject of which was the degree to which the TSA’s actions constitute a search and the degree to which they constitute an invasion of privacy :

          Reading the comments on this thread serves as a reminder that there are an awful lot of well educated clovers in our midst.

          Thus, we must not forget that there is no exiguity of well educated clovers against whom we must do battle. Sure, they are misinformed; but, in my opinion, they tend to be the type of sheople who swallowed the pablum and the propaganda better than the average clover and they tend to be better able to articulate why statism is so grand.

  24. tony tony tony
    November 28, 2012 at 7:30 pm

    This is what irritates me about the “gay marriage” issue. They are fighting for the “right” to ask permission(get a license) to do something they already have the right to do(contract with[marry] another person).<messy I know
    This is also applicable to do "driver's licenses" driving=transporting=moving people or goods for hire=operating a motor vehicle=commercial activity. If you are not so engaged, you don't need a license(lawfully).

  25. Omega Time
    November 28, 2012 at 9:27 pm

    Great minds think alike! :) I wrote an essay on this same subject a few years back. But I think you explained things a little more clearly than I did. It’s good to know others see what I see, that I’m not alone. Here’s a link to what I wrote if anyone is interested–http://www.myspace.com/65032877/blog/493121013

  26. November 29, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Another great article. I have been calling all licenses and permits “permission slips” for some time. My wife now does the same. I hope that using the term colloquially will make people aware of the issue.

    Also, I consider background checks, application materials for permits, IDs, etc. nothing but requirements to prove your innocence under the presumption of guilt. People claim to reject such a principle, but it’s clearly alive and well.

    • November 29, 2012 at 11:40 am

      Thanks, Chris!

      And, amen. I’ve been urging that we use language as a weapon, by calling things by their proper names. This pulls the curtain back, so to speak. For example, government schools. Not “public” schools.

  27. November 29, 2012 at 11:41 am

    I love Zeitgeist:

    This is a song I wrote ages ago (while in prison), and recorded a few fewer ages ago. The mix isn’t the best but it might almost be worth posting.

    (If anyone wonders, I spent a year in prison for misdemeanor “willful failure to file,” i.e., not sending pieces of paper to the IRS. Ain’t I a scary guy?)

    Think – Larken Rose – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEMdp3WUA5c

    • November 29, 2012 at 11:51 am

      Iberns,

      “I spent a year in prison for misdemeanor “willful failure to file,” i.e., not sending pieces of paper to the IRS.”

      That makes me physically ill. And, furious.

      • November 29, 2012 at 12:24 pm

        There are many who think he deserved such a fate, their brainwashing runs so deep.

        • AJ
          November 29, 2012 at 9:53 pm

          Your comment brings Westley Snipes to mind…

          • Don Cooper
            November 29, 2012 at 9:59 pm

            What a great example of someone doing nothing wrong, producing movies that people voluntarily paid to enjoy, being caged by the stazi, who produce nothing anyone wants and violating everyone’s rights in the process.

            Asked Westley if we live in a free country.

    • Tor Munkov
      November 29, 2012 at 2:13 pm

      You can here the incarceratorian tone in his youtube talks. Prison changes your brain chemistry, imagine spending a year as an untouchable burdensome beast that others are paid to begrudgingly keep alive. The myth that you are like Jesus born of a virgin is sliced like Caeser from a Roman Matrix concubine and now you are reborn into the UnitedSauronState with a Tavistock tic from the Dream Policemen’s neural baton dendrite shampoo.

      Americans are partus sequitir ventrem. Their status is that of the womb that bore them. Unless you buy permission through trust and corporate loopholes you are chattel. Fiat banking begets fiat justice. You are born a paper doll, marry a paper doll, and bring forth offspring connected to the womb of the woman with a string attached. But their is an old origami technique to get free.

      The key is to talk, think, and live free. Outside their interogatories. Controllers and Clovers are like HAL 9000. They ask are you black or white, you answer I am yellow, I was born in Japan. Would you like paper or plastic, you throw your bug out bag on the conveyor and point to its unzipped opening. Like a Singaporean who speaks in Singlish, you make them pencil you into their grid against their will and mockingly defang their Inqisition with every wORD.

      These dungeonmasters and their dragons are LARPing into the wind as far as I’m concerned.their papercaust is a monumental tragedy. I give my papers to a bilingual bookkeeper, and I have little confidence that I have triumphantly filed much or anything, but the mail goes there and I may well die a horrible death by a thousand papercuts when I get the call that Misteer Tor has large envelope from Iota Ere Ese that looks importe.

      Our 200 Trillion in debt and entitlement liabilities are cutting us to shreds anyway, I can’t see how I can guarantee safe passage around the Monopoly Board no matter what I do, might as well put all my assets in a SECTION cinco De Mayo Roth Pinata and hope the federales don’t take off their blindfolds and whack it right in its frijoles Gangham style..

      • MoT
        November 29, 2012 at 7:45 pm

        “Fiat banking begets fiat justice”… So let it be written so let it be done. There is no way to stop a runaway train with over two hundred trillion in debt. The first thing anyone could ever do is say “Hey!.. That’s not MY debt but federal debt. And since I never contracted for it you can go fuck yourselves!” Should the states ever grow any cajones they might be able to argue this while arming themselves for an eventual assault.

        • Tor Munkov
          November 30, 2012 at 10:24 am

          You can only Unitedly Stand in a Turkish Prison for so long, eventually your knees give way.

          Update: Under Universal United We Stand care, you can 1) have your legs replaced with metal prongs or; 2) have your legs encased in bronze so you can unitdlystand for all eternity.

          I Unitedly Stand corrected. Please don’t send the Atlas Drones after my family. Heil Haliburton mein DroidenFroinds

      • Don Cooper
        November 29, 2012 at 10:02 pm

        Man I only understood about 1/3 of what you said but it sounded really cool. ;)

      • November 30, 2012 at 8:10 am

        On fooling them with their own categories…

        A while ago I met someone here in Australia who regularly did just that. Australia has various measures favouring the different types of aborigine, of which one type is “Torres Strait Islander”, so all sorts of forms ask you to if you are one of these. This bloke always put down that he was a Torres Strait Islander, even though he was of completely European ancestry, since he was born in those islands when his parents were missionaries there. He figured that his answer was technically accurate.

        • MoT
          November 30, 2012 at 2:25 pm

          That reminds me of the white South African who answered on his American paperwork that he was African. Well, in fact he was! It didn’t say anything about skin color but this bit of candor caused no end of knipschen fits for the political apparatchiks.

          • methylamine
            November 30, 2012 at 5:14 pm

            My cousin who moved from South Africa a few years before we did used the same trick…on her law school applications, “African-American”.

            Needless to say with her very high LSAT and GPA, they were beating her door down with offers.

            I wish she had video; the way she describes her first in-person interview had me rolling with laughter.

            It reminded me of that scene in one of the “Lethal Weapon” movies where a white character stutters “B-b-but, you’re black!”

            The faux-compassionate liberal who interviewed her kept dancing around the issue; there was nothing he could say because it’s not supposed to be about skin color, right? It’s about caring and diversity.

            Tell me what’s more diverse–a recent South African immigrant with an interesting culture, or another American whose skin happens to be dark?

  28. James
    November 29, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    I will say despite it’s socialist leanings the state of Vt. does not have concealed carry permits at all!You can afford a handgun and choose to,carry!The more disturbing supposed gun control I see happening to a large degree under the radar is many small crimes/misdemeanors are having sentences now that trigger the brady bill provisions,you may only get a small fine for a incident(don’t even see these issues as crimes)but legally at fed level lose the legal right to own firearms.The Brady bill has definitely gone way beyond keeping violent criminals from legally owning guns to being a large tool of countrywide gun so called gun control,damn,I hate that phrase in this context.With all the new laws being passed daily will be at some point in the future almost impossible not to be labelled a criminal.I do see though the more laws passed the less folks obey the law in many ways and have lost all respect for the laws of the courts but live more obeying the laws of common sense and not hurting others,this is a good thing and hope the trend continues,best of luck to all.

  29. Fred
    November 29, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    Let Your Life Be a Friction to Stop The Machine http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30620.htm
    [23 minute video]

  30. Todd
    November 29, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    Great article as usual. You’ve got an admirer in the Roanoke/Bedford area. Have some ties to your area as well. Keep them coming…

    • November 29, 2012 at 8:52 pm

      Thanks, Todd –

      We’re up in Floyd; great place (so far)… though I see signs of Clover sprouting, which has me worried… !

  31. Meh
    November 29, 2012 at 7:29 pm

    Interesting reading the comments but felt that I must complain about your highly annoying moving ad on the right side of the page that scrolls down everytime you do… Lame,Lame,Lame.

  32. Tim from the SF Bay Area
    November 29, 2012 at 9:40 pm

    I dont know who said it first but it is so correct

    “The perfect slave thinks hes free”

    • November 30, 2012 at 4:19 am

      I freed a thousand slaves. I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves – Harriet Tubman

  33. Ken Vossen
    November 30, 2012 at 3:49 am

    When it comes to firearms, I’m in complete agreement with you. I strongly believe in “Vermont carry”. This violates no one else’s rights in any way.

    However, libertarian thinking is still a bit new to me, so hopefully y’all will forgive me for sounding like a “Clover” here, but I do have some questions:

    Are rights always absolute? Is it always wrong to expect people to obtain permission (i.e. a licence)? And what if rights conflict? I do NOT think, for example, that I have a “right”, in my quiet neighborhood, to use MY OWN property for, say, a rock concert or an outdoor shooting range. Or to replace MY OWN house with a skyscraper, or a factory, or a 24-hour strip joint, or a nuclear power plant, etc. That would be seriously violating the “rights” of my neighbors. Thus, we have zoning laws. Is this unreasonable?

    I try to be a courteous driver, and if someone wants to go faster (happens often, I drive a little slower than average), I go out of my way to help them pass. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable to require that, before being allowed to drive, people demonstrate a knowledge of the rules of the road and the ability to drive safely. Don’t insurance companies have a “right” to expect that? And if the highways were privatized (as most libertarians seem to want), wouldn’t the highway owners also have a “right” to expect that? As well as a “right” to require drivers to be insured? And isn’t it my “right” to have the ability to identify, by a driver’s licence or licence plate, someone who hits me, so I can seek compensation?

    What about flying? I have a Private Pilot licence, which took quite a bit of work and money to obtain. I also live close to an airport. I think it’s my “right” to expect the pilots constantly flying over me, or over any city, to demonstrate that they know how to competently fly an airplane! Their licences simply certify that. And I don’t have any problem with that being required of me. Do I “have” a right to put other human beings in unnecessary peril?

    Am I thinking wrongly about this? Can anyone help me out here? Thanks!

    • BrentP
      November 30, 2012 at 4:40 pm

      Zoning laws prevent -you- from replacing your home with a factory or sky scraper or whatever. They limit you and me and the rest of the little people. They do not limit the insiders, the big corporations, and so forth. They regularly get land re-zoned. They regularly get to use government not only to rezone their land but -take- their neighbors’ land for their use.

      I know of a place where someone is now a neighbor to a walgreens and an bank. The neighboring homes were torn down and replaced with these businesses. That’s how it goes with zoning. It just limits those without political power or influence. Otherwise it is the same without zoning.

      Zoning or no zoning you are in the same boat if your neighbor does something that makes noise or stinks. If they have more political influence than you, you’re SOL regardless if we have zoning or not in this present system.

      Driver’s licensing? Since when does a DL in any state show any demonstration of competence? A dead cat could likely pass given what I see on the road. I went through driver’s ed. I knew I didn’t know how to drive from that. I taught myself. We could get rid of DL’s tomorrow and there would be little change on the road. Most people drive based on what they are told are the rules. They don’t really know them or follow them. DLs are control mechanisms sold as competency checks. Looking at the effective reality shows me that they don’t function as competency checks at all, just as permission slips and other methods of control.

      Like zoning it doesn’t really change anything but to limit us little people. To give those with influence, with political power the ability to ruin our lives or hurt us economically or cage us if we are in their way or we pose competition to them.

    • methylamine
      November 30, 2012 at 5:08 pm

      @Ken

      Welcome to your new life as a libertarian, fellow red-pill swallower!

      I don’t think I’m overstating when I say that learning and understanding the premises of libertarianism induces you for the first time in being FULLY human–exercising all your powers of reasoning, not just those “permitted” by the claustrophobic discourse of the statists and collectivists.

      Good questions.
      BrentP answered the zoning question with his usual rigorous logic and appropriate cynicism for the state…keep in mind he’s a very mean-spirited person who thinks the State doesn’t love him :)

      For the following, assume a completely free society:

      In the cases you mention, like a neighbor firing up a nuclear plant, that’s easy: private property rights. If you own property and someone damages it–emits radiation, drifts toxic smoke, deafens you with decibels–they’ve violated your private property rights and you have cause. In a minarchist system you’d use the (minimal) state’s courts; in a true anarcho-capitalist system, your phyle’s reputation agency would contact his, he’d be threatened with a reputation downgrade (or other suitable sanction) and come to terms with you.

      Rights are absolute until they infringe on another’s rights–basically the premises Americans used to live under:
      “do unto others”,
      “no harm, no foul”,
      “no victim, no crime”,
      “live and let live”

      Insurance companies requiring licenses: some might, others won’t. They wouldn’t be state licenses, they’d be a private sanctioning body akin to UL (United Laboratories), and they’d actually test competence, unlike today’s Cracker-Jack-surprise “licenses”. In return, you’d get a markedly lower insurance rate based on demonstrated competence. I’d love that.

      Ditto with private roads, although imposing a restraint like that is a market-killing mistake. Much better to have more customers and weed them out based on their behavior; if a guy causes three wrecks a year on your road, bill him for the damages to your guardrails and ban him from your roads.

      Pilot’s licenses: nein!. Sorry, in a free society you have to accept some risk. Could an “unlicensed” (with all the false implications of competence conveyed by a state license) pilot crash into your house? Perhaps. But remember, he’d lose his life, too; so doesn’t it behoove him to ensure he’s competent to fly, without Nanny Government forcing him to?

      • Ken Vossen
        December 1, 2012 at 9:39 pm

        Thanks for the reply. Both you and BrentP have given me a lot to mull over. I’m not sure I agree entirely with everything you say, although I’m certainly starting to lean in your direction. In the abstract sense, blue has always been my favorite color. Nevertheless, I’m glad I swallowed the “red pill”, for TRUTH is far better than a comfortable lie!
        Ken

        • methylamine
          December 3, 2012 at 3:53 am

          Great Ken!

          It takes a while to fully shed the indoctrination all of us receive for the first N years of our lives, from 18 to 26 or so. More–if you keep watching FoxCNNMSNBCABCCBS; they’re mind-killers.

          Just glad to see another human at least thinking without blinders, and deciding for himself.

          If you haven’t already, check out LewRockwell.com, the Ludwig von Mises institute at Mises.org, and TheDailyBell.com.

        • Mike in Spotsy
          December 3, 2012 at 4:31 am

          Hi Ken, and welcome. Sounds like you are at the great decision point: close your mind, ignore the dissonance you sense, and go on living the (for now) comfortable life, or keep on searching for the truth. I have been there, and would venture to guess that most on here have been also. I do encourage you to follow the latter course, which you sound ready to do. Methylamine’s recommended reading is a great way to go forward.

  34. November 30, 2012 at 8:18 am

    Even the elemental right to choose your spouse, for instance, is no longer a natural right; the state demands the couple seek its permission to marry. Exactly as feudal lords once demanded of their serfs.

    Actually, even feudal lords only demanded this when the people involved came under two different feudal lords, as that was the only case under which wealth (one of the serfs, and their posterity) was transferred from one lord to the other. There was no problem with a serf marrying a serf under the same lord or marrying a free person – in fact, the latter was a gain for the lord.

    • Tor Munkov
      November 30, 2012 at 9:23 am

      Even TJ Quaker(Thomas Jefferson, or is he deist?) Once boasted how his slaves increased 4% in number per year. He performed a numerical calculation and had to get a mortgage on them in the 1800s.

      He had a hired man who was a strawboss and provided the necessary strongarming to keep production high. Earlier TJ had been quite the idealist but because of war debts and personal debts, then , as now, the brutish crowds out the benevolent, and rationality and common sense become suicidal and uneconomical.

      IMHO the founders are an ideal to resurrect and correct, slaves are fine if there is no inhuman violence and captivity. But economic calculation must deal with the freeriders and scoundrels. Not only deport, cage, plunder, and pillage for petty infractions.

      Somewhere Ndugu the Rapper and Jose Q Cuervo are kicking back on their rent to own couches and watching TeleCoondo’s latest episode of Cozzby’s Free Health Clinic, but relax, don’t flip your whig and lash out like a White Zombie Albino Baptist Preachorangatang on an Ovaltine Bender.

      The Holodeck is now closed. Captain Pickard Ronald Paul is grazing in SpacePastureStationTX. The Jetsons are now the Jeffersons, moving on up to a bigger piece of Rothschild’s Pie in a D Lux Low Earth Orbit Project in the Sky. Movin on up. Movin on forward.

  35. Don Cooper
    December 3, 2012 at 8:58 pm

    @Eric – I haven’t had a bank account for almost two years now. I simply take my paycheck to the bank it’s drawn on and regardless the amount I pay a $6 check cashing fee which I don’t mind because they are performing a service and I pay for that service.

    Then I keep my cash at home – what I don’t buy silver with – and that’s that. You can pay your utilities and cabel bill for $.85 at Walmart, my car is paid off and I pay the rent in cash ( I rent rooms as I travel around the country for work ). Most people are more than happy to accept cash. The paper trail, no bounced checks.

    I don’s see how anyone has a need for a bank. It’s impossible for anyone to make money using a bank. If it weren’t, banks wouldn’t be in business. I challenge anyone to calculate what the bank charged you over the course of a year in ATM fees, service fees, overdraft fees, late fees, fee fees, charges, interest etc… and see if you came out ahead or if the “convenience” was worth it.

    • December 3, 2012 at 9:06 pm

      Hi Don,

      You’re lucky!

      I have no choice if I wish to get paid. Several of the outlets I write for only do direct deposit. No bank account, no deposit.

      We don’t pay fees to bank because we maintain a certain dollar amount in the account (they get to use our money, which is their “end” of the deal).

      We own property (I know, no one actually owns squat… but for purposes of this discussion) and that requires SS, because they won’t do the paperwork without it.

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