Throw Your Plate Away Day

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It’s too bad – for cows – that they don’t have opposable thumbs. If they did, they could  do something about those tags that farmers put in their ears.plates lead

Luckily, we’ve got opposable thumbs – and could (in theory) do something about the tags . . . on our cars. You know, license plates. They amount to the same thing as those tags in a cow’s ears. They are a way for our farmers – the people who operate the levers of state power –  to keep track of us   . . . a startling thing, given all the prattle about America being a “free” country. Free people ought to be free to come and go without being kept track of.

Prisoners (and cattle) are kept track of.

So what are we, exactly?cows 1

License plates are another (one of many) assertion by the state of ownership over us, in this case, via ownership of our vehicles. Because control of a thing – who has the legal power to determine how a given thing shall or shall not be used – is the essence of ownership. If I am in a position to tell you how you may use your car, and have the power to compel you to obey my orders, then you’re not really the owner – are you?

The state says we may only travel with its permission, which is an assertion of ownership. It does this via driver’s licenses – and by licensing “our” cars. Both types of license must be regularly renewed – in perpetuity. There is a fee involved, of course.DMV 1

Each bite (annual renewal) is small but cumulatively, it amounts to a considerable sum. Let’s say the state demands $50 annually per licensed vehicle. Over 25 years, that’s $1,250 of your money you were forced to part with in order to operate your (ahem!) vehicle.

Well, yours in name.

But that’s piddly stuff compared with the true purpose of plates – which is to keep track of your comings and goings. Why do you suppose the state is beginning to deploy scanners capable of taking an electronic snapshot of every car that passes by – recording the information and cross-referencing each plate (and vehicle owner) against a database? This being done without warrant, without probable cause or even a whiff of specific suspicion – in keeping with the New American Idea that the presumption of innocence is old hat, an impediment to “keeping us safe.” Someone, somewhere might be up to no good. Therefore, everyone must be assumed to be up to no good – at all times.  Innocence at the moment doesn’t mean you won’t be guilty of some offense later on.

Perhaps tomorrow.

By monitoring all people all the time – and keeping records of this in perpetuity – the people who run the government have a much easier time of it. And that’s what matters – to them. Not your liberty, not silly old-fashioned ideas about self-ownership and being free to come and go as you please without being watched, recorded and catalogued.cop scanner 1  Not your “safety,” either. Just their control over you. That is the only relevant consideration. You are their property. Not merely your vehicle.

You.

License plates are quite literally on the technological cusp of becoming the functional equivalent of electronic ankle bracelets worn by felons. And the purpose is exactly the same: To monitor and control. Prisoners have to accept this. They are, after all, prisoners.

But are we?

Why do most of us so blithely accept being tagged?  Absent criminal wrongdoing – proved in court under the rules of evidence and beyond a reasonable doubt – why should any free man be obligated to put a number on himself  – via the car he’s in, which amounts to the same thing – before he’s allowed (!) to travel? It’s an outrage, once you peel away the facile assumptions most people accept as legitimate reason for tagging allegedly “free” people… .cop scanner 2

So, what to do?

Simple. We throw our tags in the woods. We go plate-less. We assert our right to travel, freely – and anonymously.

But, it must be done all at once. By millions of us.

Then, we will succeed.

Our “farmers” can deal with the futile fence-jumping of the occasional recalcitrant “cow.” In part because the “farmers” can count on the tacit complicity of the other cows. They moo their approval . . . of the farmer. He brings back the renegade, the law-breaker. The herd is happy once more.cop scanner 3

But what happens when the herd revolts? Then the farmer has a tougher problem on his hands.

Of course, cows – the real ones – are dumb, passive beasts. Which is why they’re used for milk and meat. Why their very bodies are simply taken from them. Generation upon generation. Born – bred – to serve the purposes of the farmer.

Are we also cows? Or are there, perhaps, a few cape buffalo among us? The cape buffalo is not an animal to be trifled with. In its native Africa, it is known as “The Black Death.” Even lions give it a wide berth. It is fierce – and fiercely independent. Which is perhaps why it – unlike other bovines – has yet to be successfully domesticated. You will never see one with a tag in its ear. cow fence jump

So, how about you?

Will you join me in celebrating National Throw Your Tags in The Woods Day?

Let’s say next July the 4th.

For the first time in a very long time, we’d finally have something worth celebrating: Actual freedom from tyranny – as opposed to the worship of tyranny that occasion has come to embody.

It’ll be illuminating to learn just how many cape buffaloes are left out there. The cynic in me expects only a few.

I hope you’ll prove me wrong.

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eric

Author of "Automotive Atrocities" and "Road Hogs" (MBI). Currently living amongst the Edentulites in rural SW Virginia. 

  230 comments for “Throw Your Plate Away Day

  1. DownshiftFast5to1
    July 31, 2013 at 11:55 am

    I’ve seen license plates for bicycles from the 1930’s.
    I thought that was strange.

    I’m glad such never took root.

    When I bought my bicycle (Bonkey) they asked me if I wanted to license Bonkey and get plates for it.
    I thought that was strange too.
    I said, no.
    For now, it’s voluntary.
    If ever there comes a time when it’s not voluntary, I’ll still say, no.
    It’s ridiculous.
    Why are cars any different, I wonder?

    Anyway, I thought you guys might like to hear some bits about my not-so-exciting night tonight:

    I detailed a vehicle for a person I care about and decided to check the oil level. I discovered the Toyota dealership put about one quart too much in.
    Is that ignorance on their part, or malice?
    Can a person sue for that?

    Then I stopped off at a bar.
    Due to the fact I seldom go, I’m still not used to drinking in a bar and not smoking, so I lit one up.
    Woe unto those who do. Fire and brimstone rains down from upon every angle. You’d think I’d lit a joint or a firecracker – or worse – judging by the response.
    I suppose I would have observed their no smoking policy if it would have been of their own accord and not the state’s.
    But, I didn’t.
    I wound up telling the owners children and relatives, the bartender, and half the bar crowd to FUck Off and flipped them the bird as I left at my own pace.
    They grew so perturbed they chased after me (and Bonkey) on foot for awhile.
    Their love of obedience was sickening.
    It was fun to stir their pot.

    Guess I’ll never go back there again, and I’ll keep my money.

    I decided to cross a frederalie bridge with a sign that said, “Bicyclist Must Wear Helmets!”

    Bonkey and I were not “bicyclists” so we proceeded without a helmet.
    It was exhilarating.

    The bars were all closed when I got there. It was like a bomb had gone off, it was just about completely deserted. A total of ten people out of a city of 300,000+ lingered after hours.
    The state cracks the whip, and The People obey.

    I talked to six people. I flashed my LewRockwell.com hat at them and told them it was the center of the revolution and they should check it out. A few said they would. I said a few other things and the twenty-something’s thought I was of the 1970’s generation.
    Ha! I laughed and told them, “No, I’m of the 1980’s generation, but I know some people from that generation and they – and I – had loads more freedom than you do now.”

    They said they would check out LewRockwell.com

    That was nice.

    Then I tried to get on a riverboat.
    They wouldn’t let me on unless I showed them my ID.
    I asked them if they were retarded.
    It was bad enough they wouldn’t let me be armed.
    (What’s so special about a riverboat that they wouldn’t allow that? Would the eight old women on board be offended at the very thought? Yeesh. But they did allow smoking. Go figure. )

    Earlier in the day, the woman who told me it was store policy to ask for ID while buying cans of spray paint, I didn’t ask her if she was retarded, I just told her I didn’t have my ID and she let it slide. Because she wasn’t retarded.

    Bonkey and I got pretty muddy on the trip but we only saw one cop in the distance.
    That was nice.

    And we Only overturned ONE sign.

    [For any wives reading this, now you know what could happen while you’re out of town. Bwahahaha!]

    • Eightsouthman
      July 31, 2013 at 12:26 pm

      Dowhshift, where did you see a license plate for a bike, never heard of such a thing? My dad made it all the way to 10 years old before being orphaned and as such, had to go to work to survive and support his siblings. He worked at the general store and went with the owner on his trips carrying supplies to the oilfield workers in Odessa(tx), about 170 miles away on dirt roads. He said he bought his first DL for two bits at the Drug Store(had two in town and that’s what both signs said till I moved away at 18), guess the damned things have always been expensive.

      • Boothe
        July 31, 2013 at 2:39 pm

        Eightsouthman – Somewhere in my collection of junque, I have bicycle plate from the 60’s. I believe it was from St. Louis, but I’ll look around the shop tonight and see if I can put my hands on it. These were typically town or city plates. It seems that places like Wichita, Dallas and even New Orleans required them in the past (based on their sales as collectables on eBaY). It’s just another way for the local tax feeders to extract wealth from the farm animals…

        • Eightsouthman
          July 31, 2013 at 2:47 pm

          Boothe, I’m not surprised Dallas had them, always been ahead of it’s time for collecting “wealth”.

  2. Tor Minotaur
    July 30, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    From the maw of the maggot Bloomberg:

    World Health Organization – Violence and Injury Prevention – World Road & Safety

    Statement from Michael Bloomberg-
    On the occasion of the launch of the Global status report on road safety 2013
    Greetings from New York City.
    I am sorry that I cannot be with you in person to mark the release of the latest Global
    status report on road safety 2013, the next important step in our shared efforts to keep
    pedestrians and motorists on the world’s roads.
    I want to thank all of our partners and everyone in the room who are doing the hard
    work of advocating for and implementing effective road safety.
    This work is more important than ever. Unless urgent action is taken, road traffic
    crashes will become the fifth leading cause of death by 2030.
    Already each year 1.3 million people, 3300 every day, are killed by road traffic crashes.
    An additional 20-50 million people suffer severe, often permanently debilitating injuries.
    I am a strong believer in the power of numbers and those numbers are unacceptable,
    because these tragedies are preventable.
    We all know what works: increasing seat-belt and helmet wearing; enforcing speed
    limits; reducing drinking and driving; shifting to sustainable transport modes such as bus
    rapid transit; creating pedestrian space and protected bike lanes.
    What’s needed is a global commitment by both the public and the private sectors to
    implement these strategies.
    Through Bloomberg Philanthropies, I am committed to working with NGOs,
    governments and private entities to put policies in place and pursue strategies that will
    ensure the safety of the world’s roads.
    Today’s report demonstrates that the progress is being made, but we still have a long
    way to go. The first Global status report on road safety resulted in life-saving action in
    many countries. Let’s make sure this one will do the same.
    Thank you and good morning

    http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/83789/1/WHO_NMH_VIP_13.01_eng.pdf

    Fat fuck toads who control your health and personal freedoms – ribbit
    http://www.paho.org/usa/

    Decade of action is d-clared

    -The total number of road traffic deaths remains unacceptably high at 1.24 million per year. Made possible through funding from Bloomberg Philanthropies, this is the second in a series of Global status reports.
    http://www.who.int/roadsafety/decade_of_action/en/

    • Charles
      August 2, 2013 at 2:06 am

      Not content with the anti-smoking FCTC the same guy wants this too. Was going to say the same Tor.

  3. Eightsouthman
    July 30, 2013 at 10:54 am

    Rev, your words “Publicly they have now been told.” My question is: How have they been told? Once again the US is totally duplicitous on this since the recognized way of notifying the public at large is publishing in the newspaper(which one(s)?). Newspapers cost money whereas the internet does not as anyone can access it at the local library for free.

    • ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N
      July 31, 2013 at 6:55 am

      Hi Eight. Many members of the public in many countries have taken a stand and declared the system corrupt. They use their private conveyances with impunity because they won their cases. They are a small few that have been allowed to slip the net (such as Charlie Sprinkle on YouBoob), on the understanding that the vast majority know of no such thing. What’s unsurprising but also not well known, is that the precedents set by these few often go missing. But that’s how these authorities have been told.

      I wish I could get the facts widely distributed in the lamestream media, but we know what they’re like.

      A precedent here called Harris v Penn, Victorian County Court 2002 was very important but now no longer exists (I paid a beak to check). Ken Harris proved in court that all speed measuring devices do not conform to S.10 of the National Measurement Act and won his speeding case.

      The Traffic Camera Office actually sends you a page describing this case if you question the legality of their cameras but it says that Harris lost!

      If I’m ever pulled into court for speeding again I wonder how the judge will respond to the TCO threatening people with a precedent that doesn’t exist. In any case, I have a copy of the court documents from Harris v Penn so I might be able to sue the TCO as well, especially if I get them to perjure themselves on the stand :)

      • Eightsouthman
        July 31, 2013 at 7:19 am

        Rev, I forget the name of the dick who is in charge of the whitehouse.gov website where all sorts of petitions are presented but he said of the Secede Texas petition that the founding fathers left no means for the states to secede, a direct contradiction of the Constitution. When I read his reply, he was so lucky to be remote from me and hundreds of thousands of Texans who knew better. How he could even say such is a travesty and slap in the face of every citizen. What do you expect of anyone associated with BO though?

        • ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N
          July 31, 2013 at 7:52 am

          Exactly Eight. Knobama and his cronies are running the USSA into the ground in every way they can. They’ll happily lock up anyone that lies to, or even merely questions them. We know how much they lie to their country, but the law applies to everyone equally. There are ways to call them out on it, particularly if you have a case against you that’s relevant.

          http://www.ourconstitution.org/your_will.php?pid=1

          Although that site is based on the Australian Constitution and Parliaments, it’s not a far cry from a mass of you Texans (hopefully the entire country) writing “My Will” letters to your constituents to ensure gubberment does “for the people”, not against them or what THEY want for the people. A large mass of voices can’t be ignored and even the lamestream media might pick up on it.

          I’m currently composing some of my own and spreading the message.

        • July 31, 2013 at 10:13 am

          Hi Eight,

          As I see it, the right of secession is implicit in the acknowledgement of the principle of state sovereignty – without which the representatives of the individual states would never have ratified the Constitution.

          Their mistake was not insisting it be made explicit, as in the Bill of Rights.

          As a result, they learned a hard lesson come 1861-’65.

          And we’re paying the price for that mistake today, too.

  4. Ron
    July 30, 2013 at 1:01 am

    Hi Eric, I like your idea, but as I understand it , registration enters a “vehicle” into a trust agreement. The state/province holds the legal title (manufacture’s statement of origin) which is control. We hold the certificate or equitable title which is use and possession. As I see it we are essentially operating government property under a contractual arrangement. We need to rescind the contract (registration), and since they probably won’t hand over the title get them to concede to having no interest in the vehicle thru acquiescence, a common law default process. Since all “government” is now corporate, every interaction we have with them is contractual in nature. Many court cases have affirmed that we have the right to use the public roadways to conduct our private business. Only commercial traffic is regulated but we are tricked into contracting ourselves into that commercial jurisdiction which includes licensing, registration, and all of the restrictions of what ever traffic regulation we fall under. We need to rescind these contracts, one individual at a time…all completely lawful, no violence involved. A U.S. congressman Louis T. McFadden, in 1934 testified before congress that ” the new deal lawyers now have no hesitancy in appearing in court and asserting that private citizens can contract away their constitutional rights. It has been through this method that they have broken down state lines and invaded the most private affairs of our citizens.” That was 79 years ago. I believe ridding ourselves of these corporate government contracts with their so-called benefits and privileges is the way forward and the way to regain our freedoms and a better life for the coming generations….the alternative is existence under a despotic technocratic tyranny the likes of which the world has never seen. If you scroll towards the bottom of this page http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2013/07/14/when-a-fly-escapes-the-web/ , there is a very interesting traffic seminar by Eddie Craig. However he doesn’t mention the vehicle registration issue which I think is a key piece of the puzzle.

    • Eightsouthman
      July 30, 2013 at 1:29 am

      Ron, you said a double mouthful. Those vehicles we buy and pay for are not ours. We merely lease them yearly from more than one govt. entity as you so rightly pointed out. Take not paying your “school tax” far enough and the state will kill you, just shoot you down and take it.

      • BrentP
        July 30, 2013 at 4:42 am

        Then why hasn’t the state come and collected the cars that have sat in my garage unregistered for years? Now they might not care, but they never did anything when the registration simply ceased being paid on them.

        The scam is the roads being under government control as a granted privilege and the ‘we can see it’ color of law cloverism that has made it so any car a cop can manage to see without breaking an entering must be registered.

    • BrentP
      July 30, 2013 at 4:37 am

      There is no ‘real title’ that the state holds. The theory is complete bunk at least as far as the state of Illinois goes and Illinois being exceptionally criminal means that it probably doesn’t hold elsewhere. I’ve read the relevant code and can find no evidence of this theory of the certificate of origin being the real title. It’s simply the proof by which the first certificate of title is issued.

      The only title is the certificate of title. The certificate of origin is used to issue the title and that’s it. It is not a ‘real’ title by which the state owns the vehicle or anything else.

    • July 30, 2013 at 9:49 am

      Hi Ron,

      I’m with you in principle – but I think Brent’s right insofar as the technical legalities of ownership (i.e., vehicle title). Also in re traveling vs. driving – and so on.

      Ultimately, the state – and the cops who enforce the state’s will – do what they like. Even “the law” itself is no longer relevant since the state refuses to be bound by it when inconvenient and simply ignores it or “interprets” it such that it no longer means what the plain language of the statute says it means.

      One of the characteristics of an authoritarian state is arbitrariness. Power exercised by whim – with little if any recourse to any objective, enforceable standard.

      Thus, the government can – and does – egregiously violate the 4th Amendment with impunity; its officials brazenly lie – commit perjury – about their activities – to cite just two recent in-the-news examples. Yet this same government will pursue the individual citizen mercilessly for (as an example) lying (or quibbling) to it – as for example in the case of tax issues.

      There’s only one option at this point: Start over.

      The current system is beyond fixing.

      • ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N
        July 30, 2013 at 10:19 am

        My CBR hasn’t been “registered” for about 10 years. I simply refused to pay any more. I now go to the VicRoads website and type in the plate number – it doesn’t have a record of it. This means the bike and the plate I still retain for it are wholly mine, as there’s simply no wet-ink contract between VicRoads (like your DMV but a private company under law) and myself.

        Any Statute Law (Act of Parliament) that attempts to supersede the tenets of Common Law is void, in law. Because Common Law is the law-of-the-land, and supreme.

        Statute Law is merely the law-of-the-sea, inapplicable on land, and subservient to Common Law in all cases. Historically much has been written about this, in particular by Sir Edward Coke, and Lysander Spooner.

        Common Law is based on those “traditions & customs” of our land. First specifically written down in the Magna Carta, 1215.

        It sets the scene for peaceful co-existence. In essence Common Law says that the peace shall not be breached, and that no harm, injury or loss to any other individual is acceptable behaviour.

        And that says it all.

        Under Common Law a Human being has the Natural Right to “travel in a conveyance of their choice”. This Natural, Basic, Inalienable, Right is unrestricted, except for the necessity of peaceful co-existence, above.

        Common Law also says one has the Natural Right to one’s own property, unless a Court of Law (including a Jury of one’s peers) decides against this Right, in a specific instance.

        Consequently, under the law-of-the-land, any Statute that attempts to modify these basic tenets is void. And engenders no dishonour whatsoever if ignored.

        “Registration” transfers superior Ownership to whoever accepts the registration. Thus the property in question has a superior Owner who can – under the law – direct it to be destroyed. Whoever thought they were the Owner, actually becomes merely the Keeper. The ultimate goal of registration is to enable confiscation.

        “Licensing” is “asking for permission”. Nothing can be licensed unless it is fundamentally lawful anyway. Consequently if controlling an automobile on the Public Highway is capable of being licensed, then it must be fundamentally lawful. If it is fundamentally lawful, then there is no need to ask permission to do it. “Asking for permission” is the act of a child. Adults, acting in full responsibility for their actions (as per Common Law) do not need to “ask permission”.

        Consequent to all of this the DEMAND of “registration” of automobiles and other vehicles for private use on public roads is an unlawful act. “That it is somehow necessary” is a DECEPTION.

        The DEMAND that “licencing” is necessary for use of a private conveyance is a similar unlawful DECEPTION.

        Actual “driving” is defined by all law dictionaries to be a paid profession, where a licence and a registered “vehicle” (a purely commercial term) is correctly controlled by the powers that be in fairness to road users that indirectly pay tax on public roads but do not earn from them.

        The penalties for these kinds of massive unlawful deceptions, perpetrated over an entire population, and for such a great length of time, must be terms of imprisonment.

        It is hoped that, as the truth of this situation gradually becomes more widely known (as it surely will), the population of Australia will have mercy on the perpetrators.

        I will vote for the mercy to be extended, but with condition. And the condition is that it stops immediately. And the reason for that is because, they can no longer claim they “didn’t know”. Publicly they have now been told.

      • Ron
        July 30, 2013 at 3:42 pm

        Regarding Brent’s comment, and this is just my understanding, the certificate is a derivative. Just as the certificate of deposit is not the deposit, the certificate of title is not the title. Whenever something is registered, it has been placed into a trust where in the title is split….more than one party has an interest in the property. The concept applies to our property in land and our children as well, all hypothecated into corporate assets. The manufacturer’s statement of origin (MSO) was originally passed to the purchaser of the vehicle, and along with a bill of sale comprised unassailable evidence of ownership. Now however, the MSO, probably electronic, goes right over our heads to the state as soon as the vehicle leaves the plant for the dealer lot. Didn’t we hear recently that vehicle sales #’s included dealer inventory as if it were already sold? It’s already an asset on the corporate balance sheet before we “buy” it.

        Eric, I definitely agree that the people wearing the costumes are out of control and acting outside of their mandate, but I still think that their actions are based in law. A law that we created through a contract. As the maxim says….the contract is the law. If we rescind every government issued contract (document, permit or license) that has our name in all capital letters, we are out of the system and jurisdiction is removed. We are then back on the land and no longer in the illusory world of statute. It’s not easy though. If anyone has an understanding on how to travel internationally without the passport, I’d love to hear it.

        • BrentP
          July 30, 2013 at 4:15 pm

          Ron, in no place in Illinois vehicle code can find any such thing nor anything that would so much as imply it.

          Like most of these sort of things I only ask to be shown the relevant code. Any state will do. Once I know the basic wording I can find it in other states’ code if it is there. They all pretty much copy from each other.

          The revelant part of the Illinois vehicle code is here:
          http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=062500050HCh.+3&ActID=1815&ChapterID=49&SeqStart=34300000&SeqEnd=64800000

          From the opening section:
          “Owner” means a person who holds legal document of ownership of a vehicle, limited to a certificate of origin, certificate of title, salvage certificate, or junking certificate.

          In every instance of this code the cerificate of origin is equal to the certificate of title and is replaced by the certificate of title. It exists as proof of title in order to issue the cerificate of title. The document is likely destroyed after certificate of title is issued as it no longer serves any purpose.

          • Ron
            July 30, 2013 at 6:48 pm

            Hi Brent, Sorry, I can’t quote relevant code sections though I’m sure Ralph Winterrowd or Rod Class could. I would look to them for proof of the theory. I believe the argument is right in principle because I’ve had family members who traveled for years in an unregistered 1/2 ton with the MSO as proof of ownership. However this was in the 70’s in northern Montana. That pickup is now in Alberta and it came across the border recently only with great difficulty as the government had no records of registration and no “certificates” had been issued. The MSO was not a certificate, but a plain statement of facts which had to be surrendered in order to obtain a certificate of title if a person wanted one or were intimidated into thinking he needed one. I think an analogy exists in the Alberta Land Titles Act from the first sitting of the legislature in 1906. There in it clearly states that the letters patent, which was and is the title to the land had to be in the possession of the registrar before the land would be brought into registration under the Act and the certificate of title issued….trading a right for a privilege.

            The codes seem to be written in such a way as to obfuscate the truth. In the Traffic Safety Act in Alberta an owner means someone who has possession of a vehicle even under a lease or rental for as little as 30 days. In the Eddie Craig traffic seminar mentioned above, the Texas code defines a light truck as a commercial vehicle. Words are very deceptive. I think we are also being deceived by the word certificate. For example in Black’s 3rd pg 300, under certificate of stock it states: It is not the stock itself, but merely written evidence of ownership thereof… I agree we will probably never see the actual titles for these newer vehicles given the way things are set up. Ralph Winterrowd Sunday 5pm central on Republic Broadcasting claims to have proof of the concept from a study of the Alaska statutes and I believe Rod Class has a very substantial lawsuit ongoing in the Carolinas over this issue.

          • BrentP
            July 30, 2013 at 11:10 pm

            All the tales lack the specifics. Nobody can point to the specifics. Just the general theories. Even those who supposedly successfully drive without plates don’t have specifics. Just generalities.

            It is possible to drive a car upon the highways with a certificate of origin under defined circumstances. I don’t know what they are in Montana but there probably are some. And I don’t doubt in countless small towns people get away with all sorts of things because it’s just Bob from down the hill and everybody knows everybody so nobody hassles Bob about it. However I want something so iron clad it works for me. Someone who just to get to work has to deal with two counties, something like six towns, and state cops. Generalities and people who successfully won their cases in Hazard County against Boss Hogg and Rosco just ain’t gonna cut it for me.

            Steve Jobs got a new car identical to his existing car every few months to exploit a period of time a car could remain without plates in CA indefinitely. Those with enough money or influence can always escape the laws for the rest of us. Which to me doesn’t prove the theories either. It’s the same as small town Bob just being allowed to slide because he’s good old Bob from down the hill. The law is ultimately social and selective. Money, social status, who a person knows, etc and so forth determines greatly how law is applied.

            Besides what is the MSO anyway? It’s a piece of paper to get a title. I don’t get an MSO with my new computer, leaf blower, or anything that the state doesn’t title. It’s just a document for the state to issue the first title. That’s all it is used for. If the personal conveyance theory were correct the MSO wouldn’t be a ‘real’ title, it wouldn’t even exist. There would be no need. There was no MSO for wagons or horses as far as I know.

            The whole thing is just bunk as far as I can tell. Sure it’s a scam to force people to register their cars and what not, sure it’s leverage, but it’s the straightforward kind. Convince the masses it’s needed and sure enough it is willed into existence. It can be willed out of existence the same way. That’s all it is, a very simple government scam like most of the others. No special tricks of trading away rights or corporate entity and so forth. Just outright con job. Break the spell on all our neighbors and it will just go away.

          • July 30, 2013 at 11:22 pm

            BrentP – Notice how the proponents of the Magic Words theory never produce absolute definitive proof that what they promote actually works (like a vid showing one of the many robed priests cringing in terror as they speak them)? And when you challenge them, they point you to links that look like they haven’t been updated since 1995. Ian Freeman over at Freetalk Live has these guys call in from time to time. He tried the Magic Word theory and it failed. maybe he did something wrong. Unfortunately, proponents call in, from time to time, and tell him what he did wrong (usually by presenting some third party hearsay as proof). He is usually polite and request that they present something more concrete, like showing a vid of them using the Magic Words theory to reduce a robed priest to a pile of blubbering lard. None have come forth as of yet.

        • DownshiftFast5to1
          July 31, 2013 at 4:19 am

          “Break the spell on all our neighbors and it will just go away.”

          What a quote.

          Quote of the decade, even!

          Problem is, they are all hypnotized!

          …I’m not kidding.

          They are in a deep trance.
          They are in lust with what’s called, Dreamtime.

          Or maybe they’re just authoritarians loving every minute of it all?

          I’m not sure there’s anything that can be done to help them.
          If they’ve made it this far and don’t see.,,, or hear,… perhaps there’s no hope for them?
          i pity them.

          I’d so love to be wrong. …People, tell me I’m wrong.

          What’s that line from the band, The Police, “Hundred billion bottles washed upon the shore… I’m sending out an S.O.S. … Seems I’m not such a….”

          All I hear is crickets… Oh, wait. I don’t hear them anymore. It’s like they disappeared,… or something.

    • Kathleen
      July 31, 2013 at 3:12 am

      Ron, I love Clint’s work and you can find Eddie’s radio show talking about registration in the archives here
      http://www.logosradionetwork.com/

      • DownshiftFast5to1
        July 31, 2013 at 4:31 am

        This thread reminds me of conversations I’ve seen on The Daily Bell where they talk about antidotal title (not sure on the spelling) in regards to real estate.

        The same idea applies, where a person obtains antidotal title they have absolute title and they don’t have to pay taxes, something not common these days. Or so I’ve read.

        It’s a very old idea. One our masters wish we didn’t know of, I’m sure.

        • July 31, 2013 at 10:32 am

          Hi DS,

          I think the term is allodial (sp?) title – or title in allodium.

          It means just what you described: You own the land, free and clear. Not conditional use so long as you continue to pay rent to the government – as today.

          It’s my opinion that restoring this idea is essential to restoring genuine liberty. A man ought to be able to live on his own land, free of the need to earn any income (other than what he needs to provide himself with necessaries). It would mean independence – the ability to just retire to one’s land and be left the hell alone.

          Which of course is why it’s not allowed.

          • DownshiftFast5to1
            July 31, 2013 at 11:46 am

            eric wrote, “Which of course is why it’s not allowed.”

            That caused me to laugh.

            … An ‘In agreement’ kind of laugh.

            That’s a tag line to a lot of things these days. “Which of course is why it’s not allowed.”

            I imagine Jon Stewart saying that too.

  5. Eightsouthman
    July 28, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    eric, Fred is channeling you today and for all intents and purposes, the rest of us also…..even clover. Fred: [If you deal in opinion, you have to avoid upsetting the editor, the advertisers, your colleagues, the victim groups, and above all be politically correct. In columnists, papers want slot-fillers—the female liberal, female conservative, black liberal, and so on—who can be relied on not to say anything unexpected or controversial. Editors want adventure without danger. Thus the rule for an aspiring columnist for print publications is to choose a spot on the political spectrum and never deviate from it, even though he knows that much of it is nonsense. This keeps columnists boring.

    It also creates huge openings for writers on the web. No paper on the planet would publish Fred on Everything, which means that it has no organized competition.]

    http://www.fredoneverything.net/Microjourno.shtml

    Wish I could change font color…….oh, dom?

  6. Tor Minotaur
    July 27, 2013 at 7:33 am

    12 year old declares throw your debt money system away day.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx5Sc3vWefE

    11 year old declares throw your frankenfood grocery system away day.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DakiCuprEF0

    Young Syrian boy refugeed by our International Mafia
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eabb8RuNGBo

    – the idea of America
    an abstraction, no substance, nothing but air
    only thing real is our pro-rata share
    of obligations our children will forever bear
    for deaths, enslavements, and refusals to care

  7. Marco
    July 26, 2013 at 1:51 am

    One thing I didn’t see mentioned, although there are quite a few comments so I could have missed it, is the possibility of using infrared LEDs to obscure the LPS cameras. It’s something to look into if you still want to keep your plate but want to go unmonitored by LPS cameras.

  8. phil
    July 25, 2013 at 10:48 pm

    I own a vehicle made in the 50s and sold before the state it was sold in even issued titles. As such, it is untitled, and the state I live in refuses to register and plate it. I nearly pulled my hair out trying. I finally snapped and stopped trying. Ive put 2000 miles on it since. Im always checking my rear view just in case need to do some evasive maneuvers.

    With no plate, no registration, no inspection, no safety features, nothing, I get the biggest feeling of freedom driving it. I dont even pay taxes for parts, seeing how I procure them online.

    • July 26, 2013 at 10:11 am

      Good stuff, Phil!

      I get most of the same when driving my ’76 Pontiac.

      In VA, you can still get Antique Vehicle tags, which are “permanent” (no annual fees) and the car is exempt from “safety” and “emissions” inspections. It of course has no %@!$$ air bags, ABS or computer, either.

  9. Thorfinnss
    July 25, 2013 at 9:15 pm

    Slightly more disruptive approach … Swap your plates with a clover living a couple of streets over. Repeat monthly. Who really looks at or remembers their barcode? Well except for they who go for the vanity plates.

    • Jean
      July 26, 2013 at 2:56 pm

      HEH.
      I like it.
      Even better, if time permits: swap as many plates as possible in a parking lot or such. Apartment complexes would be great for that…

      If a few thousand people suddenly have the wrong tags, they’ll start to wake up, post-haste. Some might even get a scar or two as a reminder.
      And the police departments would have a hell of a time dealing with the fallout. Lawsuits for improper actions, illegal arrest, false arrest, excessive force, illegal search and seizure, maybe even a few wrongful death suits… Road of Paradox is calling… (Change things as much as possible, basically).

  10. Jacob
    July 25, 2013 at 8:14 pm

    I moved from Louisiana to Washington five years ago. I didn’t register my vehicle here or obtain a new driver’s license. When my insurance company threatened to cancel my policy if I didn’t renew the expired license, I got a new one. Yes, I capitulated.

    My tabs are another story. After residing here for about six months, I received a yellow card in the mail from the WA State Patrol saying (paraphrased): We’re sure you overlooked the order to register your vehicle in WA within 90 days of your becoming a resident; we’re overlooking your transgression for now, but immediately register your vehicle at any of our five hundred convenient locations, sincerely, Officer S. O. Fist.

    It was a simple notice, printed on run-of-the-mill yellow cardstock card; I nearly threw it out without reading it because I thought it was junk mail. I am glad I didn’t. At that moment, that card unriddled something for me. You see, I operate my vehicle safely, and I consider that to be all that matters where a vehicle is concerned. I realized that a sticker or a new license plate had nothing to do with my ability to operate my vehicle safely. So the demand for my money was only from the standpoint that it showed my pure obedience to their rule. It makes no difference to them if my obtaining a new license plate requires me to pay $50, or to bow on one knee and ask the duty officer for permission to have one. The arbitrariness smacked me square in the face. I didn’t get mad; I simply said, no; and I continue to say the same. A revolution is a simple thing: You must first say no.

    I was a lonely kid, a daydreamer never in a hurry, and it taught me to be on the lookout for possibilities. The little things that have truly changed my life continue to amaze me; and I am convinced similar things happen to most people—almost like the universe tries to communicate a necessary truth to them, to enlighten them to a better way, with a voice as unassuming as the fluttering of butterfly wings. But the hurriedly rote life most people live leaves them far too little precious time to contemplate the little things that truly change the heart and mind.

    Eric, you give people much to contemplate, so I wish you luck in keeping your site afloat.

    • Jean
      July 26, 2013 at 2:51 pm

      Jacob,
      Contemplation is somethign most people don’t bother with – run in fear from, actually. That “hurriedly Rote Existence” is all that keeps them from “madness” (to them) – because they actually can’t stand the silence, the lack of confusion, the HURRY.
      “The unexamined life is not worth living,” said Socrates.
      He didn’t mean you couldn’t do anything – but rather, that you produced no value. Never examined your thoughts, or even asked if you HAD thoughts.

      Ever wonder why gov’t education produces machines capable of rattling off tons of data, but unable to figure out what any of it means? Not by accident. (Academia still thinks we live in the industrial age, assembly-line automatons being useful. We now have a surplus of population, and a severe deficit of leadership, wisdom, and thought. We are regressing.)

    • Eightsouthman
      July 27, 2013 at 3:52 am

      Jacob, your words “I was a lonely kid, a daydreamer never in a hurry, and it taught me to be on the lookout for possibilities. The little things that have truly changed my life continue to amaze me; and I am convinced similar things happen to most people—almost like the universe tries to communicate a necessary truth to them, to enlighten them to a better way, with a voice as unassuming as the fluttering of butterfly wings. But the hurriedly rote life most people live leaves them far too little precious time to contemplate the little things that truly change the heart and mind.” I’ve noticed you’re not the only one with this story and it applies to me too. I was speaking with my wife today and mentioned it was killing me I don’t have the money to get my trombone rebuilt since it’s leaking air everywhere, bump stops are gone, etc. She took the cue and I already knew she was going to be abusive, just wanted to bust my nuts so she replied I needed to sell it and let somebody else play it. Now this stuff is my life and she knows it. My parents could have bought a nice car for what it cost but it provided me decades of pleasure I can’t begin to get across to anyone unless they already know. I went ballistic and screamed at her, SCREAMED, I don’t intend to ever sell it, I want to play it. She knew she’d overstepped but she intended to, that was the whole point. Everything in my life takes a bad seat to music. She’d already pissed me off talking about selling my Fender electrics and acoustics too. I love bikes and cars and have always been a Libertarian, since I was young but take music away from me and you don’t want to be around for the rest of my soon to be extremely shortened life. Eric does have a good site here and I certainly hope he can keep it. Lots of good people here. peace

  11. Jinxthinks
    July 25, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    I’ll join in I am tired of being a sheep in sheeps clothing, but please remember to keep a count down calendar for those of us old fogies who have memory loss problems.

  12. Guy
    July 25, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    Only vehicles involved in COMMERCIAL activities are required to be registered. See title 49 US Code. ‘Splains it all right there in black ink on white paper. Title 18 gives the definition of MOTOR VEHICLE…it’s used in a COMMERCIAL capacity. The states are required to follow US code…they are receiving fed funds, after all. All of these states, counties, muni’s are in violation of the RICO statutes. They are all involved in this massive fraud against the American people. People wake up!!!!!

    Guy

    • liberranter
      July 25, 2013 at 8:49 pm

      Guy, as I explained in response to Kathleen’s post above, it really doesn’t f***ing matter WHAT “the law” says. It’s what the State, with all of its might and firepower, orders you to do – OR ELSE. More often than not, what the State orders its subjects to do has bugger-all to do with what “the law” says, or is even in direct and blatantly obvious contradiction to it. The only “law” these cretins recognize is the positivist law that derives from the barrel of a gun (to paraphrase Mao Tse Tung).

      It all comes down to “picking the battles one fights carefully.” So far, that’s been relatively easy (that is, for example, I’m not going to risk a multi-thousand-dollar fine and weeks in jail over a 35-dollar “tribute” so graciously allowing me to drive on the State’s roads. A simple CBA tells me that such is foolish and counterproductive). As the State grows more and more arrogant and feels that it’s power is unassailable, and starts to further push the envelop in ways that are a direct threat to individual well-being, on a massive and blatant scale, then the widening of the scope of worthwhile battles might be in order. For now, though, we’re not there yet.

      • Guy
        July 25, 2013 at 9:38 pm

        libberranter,

        If enough folks knew and understood the law, liberty could be preserved. It won’t happen until then. Education is the key. Go ahead and pay the “tribute” and continue on in serfdom. Good luck.

        Guy

      • Jean
        July 26, 2013 at 2:43 pm

        Liberranter,
        Your entire second paragraph is why it’s worked. It’s “not worth it.”

        Which ultimately leads us to where we are now.

        If we, the sheeple, had fought for the PRINCIPLES in the beginning, instead of being lazy, self-interested slobs, shits, and assorted venal scumbags out to profit from others’ misery – then we would’ve dealt with the greedy assholes the first time (crica 1786 or so), and maintained that vigilance (and violence), we wouldn’t have the problem here.

        We need to be mroe involved – hence the insulating layers of bureaucracy, all not answering to the public. (Nothing new – the rituals of ancient courts were the same thing, they kept people divided and scheming against each other instead of uniting against common slave master. European and Chinese both.)

        It’s the reason we are now talking about secession/war/revolution/MGTOW/ex-patriation, etc, etc, etc. Any way to GTFO and remoe ourselves from the problem… [note that same CBA – cheaper and EASIER to leave and rebuild outside those over-reaching laws – which, once it’s done en masse, will simply result in MORE wars – adding US influence to those areas formerly safe, or threatening those who don’t repond to “diplomatic”* overtures to ensure the US ex-tax slaves are repatriated, or at least their MONEY is repatriated, to Uncle Satan. When will people wake up to the fact that’s its the same as Apeeasement has ALWAYS been: “Peace in our time”, as long as the bullied is bent over and sqealing like a piggy… There’s a REASON for my vitriol, it’s based on personal experience, and the Micro- to Macro economics only makes things WORSE: MORE damage, MORE injury, LESS restraint: It changes from a scalpel stroke, IE assassination, to a broadsword frenzy – anyone and everyone eve slightly tied to the target gets pureed. If I had simply broken someone’s nose the first time I was bullied, the limits would’ve been defined. Instead, ot became, “How far can we push him? WHAT CAN WE GET AWAY WITH?”
        And here we are: “Can we extract 99% of their money to U.S. while they live in penury?” And so far, the “Big, Strong, Proud ‘Murricunts” have backed off, retreated, done the CBA and said it’s not worth it, etc, etc, etc. Because the PRINCIPLES that underpin our original consitution aren’t IMPORTANT to them. Just like their balls aren’t important to them.
        The parallel is explicit: We have been psychologicaly gelded, IE, Domesticated into Tax Sheep, and NO ONE CARES – because the efforts to reclaim your (My – Guilty too, until very recently) balls just COSTS too much.
        As long as we maintain that stance, We will continue to be victimized, whether we admit it or not. Problem is, they come for the Gays… and we say nothing.
        They come for the Romany, and we’re not Romany – we say nothing.
        Then for the Lutherans, or the Jews, or the “funny Brown People Over There”, whomever -the pattern – and the socail acceptance – has been completed. it’s case law now, social standards, rules of the road, whatever.

        And eventually, enough people realize they’re being choked to death, and there’s violence. And this will be a French revolution, with a Reign of Terror – it’ll be UGLY. And the Sheep will bleat, and be sheared, and slaughtered. The sheepdogs and wolves will be indistinguishable, but the system will collapse – and the Sheep will reach down find their balls now and again – when they see armed forces occupying them, or when a family member is killed by the “enemy” (either side), or their parents disappear (even by their own decision to leave – they won’t leave a forwarding address, and people will “assume” because “everyone knows that…”)

        Think of the destruction of the Roman Empire, and the Dark Ages. Now add in our rapid communications, and rapid-fire weapons, and our disdain for history, learning, knowledge, wisdom.
        It can —NEVER— end well. Parochial minds with guns —NEVER— ends well. Witch hunts; Holocaust; Inquisition; Kiddie Pr0n / Sex offender hysteria; Satanic Ritual Abuse; Hell, “SAVE THE WHALES” & WWF -> ALF. All we can do is (a) fight to the death, or (b) select our “god” to be sacrificed to. The “god” of today as a Liberal Statist god; Why, when there are SO MANY people (alt-right; White Nationalist; Paleo-Right; millions of >BLOGS Ron Paul, whoever – and ONE place that presents those votes, aggregates the count. A youTube or RSS feed to a set of cloud servers. Even if the person only gets 1/3 the possible vote – that’s 1/3 of the POSSIBLE vote, as opposed to the AT MOST 50% of the <50% who voted that is now considered a "landslide".

        What would happen then? HOW could "they" fudge those numbers? The evidence is POSTED, LOGGED, to multiple sites, for the WORLD to see. They can claim fraud all they want – it would simply open the doors for class-action type Referendum (? Used in legal sense, I think that's the right word) and Recall vote. Also, it would open the door to average citizens, en masse, quesitoning the official numbers. US has a voting population of 221,925,820 (per http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2012G.html). @ 1/3 of that, 73,975,273.
        If the numbers there are about right, we have 58% total TURNOUT. That's 128,716,975 people VOTING, assuming a roughly 50/50 split, it's 64,358,487 per party. doesn't account for the gerrymandering, sure, but raw numbers say it's VERY possible, EVEN WITHOUT ANY CONVERTS FROM THE VOTING SHEEP NOW.

        To me, it beggars the question: WHY ARE WE HERE TALKING LIKE THIS? Or at Alt-Right.com, or (insert blogroll of political sites here). It's a very real issue.

        With a show of force that size, would there even be a reason for Uncle Satan to fight? Sheer numbers show it's a foregone conclusion. Only option is to send in the Army, but – 1/3 at least would already be disloyal – all you've done then is send a lot of personnel to die, by being shot in the back by your own troops. {They'll try it, of course, always do.}
        But each frag results in more weapons and ammo for the (now definite) revolt, and will also result in more converts. Some will have training (vets), some will be naturals, some will be cannon fodder – but it'll be an insurgency. And with each step taken to contain the insurgents / revolt, TPTB fan the flames. Eventually, no one can own weapons, explosives, anything flammable, anything pointy; cannot even go to the toilet without getting a rectal exam (Thank you South Park.) And – this is ALREADY in the mainstream, sites like Forbes and Washington Post and Barron's and Wall Street Journal are reporting on these events, NOW.

        *****
        i'd like to think most people are good. Makes for a nice, warm, fuzzy. It's why con-men can do what they do, in normal society.
        We aren't in a normal society, so I need to presume the WORST of people, and be pleasantly surprised when I'm wrong.

        Put another way: the writing's on the wall, the history has already been written – we're just actors on the stage, and we can choose which role to play: Passive victim; Active aggressor; Chorus (mostly victims); cowards who run away and shirk all actions (risks).

        Most people won't fight until there's nothing left to lose. If we wait until that point in time, we'll be tagged and lobotomized and anesthetized. And then, nothing CAN be done.

        What's the CBA on THAT?

        Act while it is small and can be changed easily – or get buried by history's wheel, grist for the mill.

    • Eightsouthman
      July 27, 2013 at 2:52 am

      Huh?

  13. Tor Minotaur
    July 25, 2013 at 2:36 pm

    NH – the state of denial
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-O8meL1ymZdE/TeaXvPeLEYI/AAAAAAAABPs/7Lz0ZfSsT08/s400/nh_license_plate2.jpg

    Live free or die? You other drivers can see the choice I made. Just another dehumanized being who pays the goons for this license plate and puts it on my car like a good little serf. Otherwise, I end up at the state penitentiary making more license plates with the other captives, plates that say “live free or die” for $.17/hour while bunking with my new life partner Bubba, he’s a Taurus and I’m an Aries, and you know how that story ain’t gonna have a happy ending.

    Hell on second thought, just run me off into that ditch up ahead, it looks deep enough that I’ll die on impact, and get out of this slave license plate endless loop of tyranny. I’m already dead inside anyway…

    New Hampshire State Quarter, now worth only $.07, but it still says “live free” while robbing me blind. State motto? The state of irony.
    http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/IMAGES/QUARTERS/New-Hampshire-quarter.jpg

    – – – – –
    Mud is just a man. No official name, no record of him in the system, except for some surveillance photos. A man, with all his flaws, making his own way in life outside the box of the state.

    Mud – 2012 – Matthew McConaughey – Just click one time on the play button seen over the large poster of the movie, ignore anything else.

    http://viooz.co/movies/20486-mud-2012.html

    • July 31, 2013 at 12:38 am

      Dear Tor,

      Otherwise, I end up at the state penitentiary making more license plates with the other captives, plates that say “live free or die”

      Ain’t that the truth?

      Perfect microcosmic representation of our current plight.

      It’s the basic nature of “democracy.” False advertising. The label “freedom” on a product that is everything but freedom.

    • Mithrandir
      July 31, 2013 at 11:06 am

      Tor,

      Mud was an interesting film. I did not care much for it as a film although it had it moments.

      Thanks for the warning where not to click.

  14. Kathleen
    July 25, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    There’s only ONE type of vehicle REQUIRED to be registered in California…

    CVC 260. (a) A “commercial vehicle” is a motor vehicle of a type required to be registered under this code used or maintained for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit or designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.

    (b) Passenger vehicles and house cars that are not used for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit are not commercial vehicles.

    Stop volunteering people!

    • Steve Rogers
      July 25, 2013 at 4:41 pm

      Sadly, that’s incorrect:

      Registration Required

      4000.. (a) (1) A person shall not drive, move, or leave standing upon a highway, or in an offstreet public parking facility, any motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, pole or pipe dolly, or logging dolly, unless it is registered and the appropriate fees have been paid under this code or registered under the permanent trailer identification program, except that an off-highway motor vehicle which displays an identification plate or device issued by the department pursuant to Section 38010 may be driven, moved, or left standing in an offstreet public parking facility without being registered or paying registration fees.

      http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d03/vc4000.htm

      • Kathleen
        July 26, 2013 at 3:42 am

        V C Section 470 Person
        Person
        470. “Person” includes a natural person, firm, copartnership, association, limited liability company, or corporation.

        Steve,
        The legal definition of “includes” usually means a group of like items. How are we like a corporation, llc, firm, etc.?

        Just sayin’. Thanks.

        • Eightsouthman
          July 27, 2013 at 4:24 am

          Kathleen, when the Supremes ruled a corporation was an individual it was proof positive they were bought and sold.

    • liberranter
      July 25, 2013 at 4:49 pm

      The problem is that once someone (or, worse yet for the State, multiple “someones”) decides to apply this law to the letter, then gets cited for a violation (in this case not have plates and tags that they’re not required by law to have, but that everyone has anyway), and his hauled in front of a traffic court judge, that judge is going to ignore the letter of the law altogether and ORDER the accused to register their car, with threats of crippling fines and/or jail time if the accused doesn’t obey, the letter and spirit of the law be damned.

      People should realize by now that “the law” means exactly jack shit to the people charged with “enforcing” it, especially if there’s no profit in such enforcement for the State and freedom in it for the serfs.

      • Kathleen
        July 26, 2013 at 3:49 am

        Yes, I agree. The “enforcers” are ignorant of the law. It means nothing. They do as they’re told, like good little Nazis.

      • July 31, 2013 at 1:30 am

        Dear lib,

        People should realize by now that “the law” means exactly jack shit to the people charged with “enforcing” it…

        Yup.

        Once upon a time… when I was still a minachist, I believed in the “Rule of Law.” I even clung to it some time after becoming aware of market anarchism. I didn’t perceive the logical defects until some time later.

        But eventually I came to the realization that the “Rule of Law” is ultimately based on brute force coercion and indifference to the “Consent of the Governed.”

        The “Rule of Law,” even when minarchism is in its Stage 0, to borrow a term from oncology, is still a malignancy. Left unchecked, it will eventually develop into Stage IV.

        Today, in 2013, it has. Metastasis accelerated after 9/11, and here we are, a full blown police state.

        The only way the “Rule of Law” could ever be legitimate, would be if we started over from scratch as a market anarchist society and totally redefined the meaning of the term “law” to mean voluntary contractual terms agreed to with Private Defense Agencies.

  15. H.F. Wolff
    July 25, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    Methinks it would be more destructive to the state by gaming the system instead of confronting it head-on.

    Thus I would suggest that when you are stopped for driving without a license plate, you simply claim that it as fraudulently removed, ie. stolen!

    At worst a set of replacement plates would cost you -in my jurisdiction- $20.

    Imagine 50 million vehicles requiring replacement plates along with the paperwork!

    It just might bring the system down or at least throw some sand into its gear box.:-)).

    Further, could you imagine the state’s confusion if 100 million plus individuals claimed that their driver’s license was lost or stolen??? Similar with any other official paperwork.

    The key is to avoid head-bashing with the powers-that-be, but to play the system using its own rules to your advantage.

    hfw

    • GW
      July 26, 2013 at 5:48 pm

      Actually, you might be on to something here…

      Known as The Cloward-Piven Strategy – primarily used by the Liberal Establishment to overwhelm goobermint “services” to get what they want.

      What says we can’t use that strategy as well?
      Fight Fire with Fire so to speak.

      Personally I make a point of waiting to speak to a representative rather than use an automated phone response system when dealing with banks and other “service providers”.

      I also refuse to use the self-checkout lines at the grocery store and Home Depot’s, etc.

      If nothing else, I get some small degree of satisfaction on a daily basis that I screwed up their Corporate plan for another few minutes to “not have to actually speak to or deal directly with their customer”.

      Sure it costs me time – it is a price I am willing to pay.

  16. RC
    July 25, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    You are right about the nature of all of our government “tags”, from license plates to SS numbers. However, I don’t believe that you will ever get a significant number of people in a concentrated area, like a city or town, to ditch their car tags all at once. Most people just take such aspects of the State control structure for granted as a fact of life. Paying the fee and submitting (usually unknowingly) to constant surveillance is the price most folks (including me- I pay wheel taxes every year and put the stinking tags on “my” car) pay in order to live their lives without getting physically hassled by the State. It’s exactly the same reason why many people pay “protection” money to gangsters.

    So, as much as I’d love to ditch all of my tags, it just doesn’t seem feasible.

    • Thorfinnss
      July 25, 2013 at 9:22 pm

      There is in fcat, a form IR17 for revoking your SSN. Reason being it was applied for when you were not of an age when you were able to make a legal contract.
      Guy in Texas has been making a living by getting hired, fired for not having an SSN then suing for illegal dismissal.

  17. Moo!
    July 25, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    You say:
    “.. why should any free man be obligated to put a number on himself – via the car he’s in..”

    But why end with your car? Seems to me the same argument should be had towards having a Social Security Number (SSN).

    And is it really ‘your’ SSN? Quickly find out by trying to sell it, lease it, or give it away.

    And of course, you’re required to have a SSN for a drivers license and license plate anyway, so if we really want FREEDOM, stop numbering our children and refuse to ‘have’ or ‘use’ a SSN, since that’s really the source of the problem to begin with. Crazy? Let’s see what happens on ‘throw your plate in the woods’ day…

    • July 25, 2013 at 12:45 pm

      Hi Moo,

      Of course – I agree.

      Throw the SS number in the woods, too!

    • Thorfinnss
      July 25, 2013 at 9:26 pm

      Something like 5 million people go about without an SSN (either never applied for or revoked). driver license agencies, banks etc are required to accept all zeros on the forms requiring it.

  18. Steve
    July 25, 2013 at 11:31 am

    In Kentucky the situation is even worse. Not only do they tag us, but they take ownership of our vehicles. I recently moved to Kentucky from Florida. I was not aware when I moved here that the state now owns my vehicles and charges me an annual fee to maintain possession in the form of a property tax. Since my motorcycles are old, they assess them at a rate far above what I paid for them as they have classified them as ‘classics.’ If I don’t pay the annual fee (rent?) they will presumably come and take ‘their’ motorcycles and sell them at auction to someone who is able to pay the annual tribute.

    And the real kicker? The majority of these property taxes go to the school system. That in itself is not a bad thing but guess who levies the taxes, determines the rates and otherwise oversees the taxes. The school board! So the very NEA union hacks who benefit from the taxes in salaries and benefits have been given the authority to tax the public at any rate they see fit. It’s the most openly corrupt system I’ve ever seen.

    • July 25, 2013 at 12:47 pm

      Hi Steve,

      We’ve got the “personal property tax” on vehicles in VA, too.

      It’s incredibly obnoxious.

  19. Enemy of the state
    July 25, 2013 at 4:50 am

    Looking forward to tossing all the tags in the woods 4 July 2014, hopefully with a LOT of other people. Massive disobedience against the state is most powerful when a lot of people recognize it, even if they don’t participate.

  20. Tor Minotaur
    July 24, 2013 at 11:34 pm

    American reality check. We’re now ranked number 27th in wealth. Many fear losing their wealth by moving abroad to gain additional freedoms. Statistically, you will likely lose your last remaining wealth to the ruling Kleptocracy if you remain, as they steal the last remaining dollars from anyone they can to survive a few more months.

    If you want to see how free you are, try taking your $38,786 in personal wealth out of the USSA. Unlikely you will die in a FEMA camp, the S already HTF while you were asleep.

    http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2013/07/23/how-does-americas-middle-class-rank-globally-27/american-middle-class-2/

    The modern day concentration camp bureaucracies are well fortified and are quite effective at concentrating your former wealth into the elite pig hooves of the state. It costs them little to house us in prole blockhouses or sterile McMansions.

    They sleep well, knowing they can seize all surplus production under a thousand statutory pretenses so why would they need to worry?

    Here, listen to the empty words of the president or the pope. Empty figureheads who contribute nothing, and are in reality, less than nothing. Enjoy your empty pleasures of 2 minutes hate against Weiner, or anticipation of the name of the Royal baby or Kardashian baby, whoever is today’s scapegoat or supersheep, it’s all part of their virtual reality “commonwealth” of machine baked bread and telescreen circuses.

    Obama outlines his vision, bring lots of tissues, I’m sure you will weep with joy after hearing it
    http://www.bloomberg.com/video/obama-outlines-economic-vision-money-moves-07-24-2cb402OzTI~uc_ayuKL~Kw.html

    Resist the idols of money, power, pleasure, making your own choices, having your own property. The pope is all you need, he wears his pretty dresses, fancy hats, and shiny bangles for you. He flies around the world and bows to oppressive pharisees and kings, just like Zombie Jesus did, after they resurrected his corpse and reprogrammed him to sit forever in the third throne of Rome along with the war financiers and war starters.
    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20130724/DA7NUUEO1.html

    – a phree sheeple bleats phor phreedom, baaaaah!

  21. ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N
    July 24, 2013 at 3:25 am

    Eric, once again a very well written article, suitable to be used in court if the judge asks if you have anything further to say about your “crime” of travelling in an “unregistered” personal conveyance, without a licence etc.

    This I have been doing for years anyway. My car had its plates removed by the gestapo some years ago, where for a while after I printed out fake ones on my computer and stuck the paper behind plate covers. I stopped doing that when a camera fine came in the mail recognising my FAKE plate ;)

    Both my car and bike are “unregistered” and therefore now belong wholly to me. I use them with impunity. If I get pulled over, usually the cop tells me I’ll have to get it towed. So I wait in the passenger seat with door open and phone to the ear (faking), waiting for him to come back and check I haven’t just driven off. I usually give them 20 minutes and then I just leave the area.

    One day, I’ll be dragged into court and my point will be made clear – that we have the inalienable Right to unencumbered travel in a personal conveyance of the day on public roads since inception of the Magna Carta in 1215. That there is no valid Law or Act that has repealed that Right. In Australia at least, there is no valid Law or Act that can bind a flesh and blood human being to a Statute without that human being consenting to be so bound.

    S.76 of our Constitution allows Parliament to make Laws (Statutes), however there’s nothing in our Constitution declaring or even hinting that these Statutes must be obeyed.

    Here, our Constitution also states in the Imperial Acts Application Act, S.8(12) “That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction, are illegal and void”. Therefore, all tickets for speeding, parking whatever, are unlawful.

    Recently, we had some precedents set by our Supreme Court in Melbourne, noting;

    (1) That it is perfectly lawful to flee the police and not answer their questions if not under arrest – TRUE!

    (2) That the police don’t have the unfettered Right to harass and pull people over for “checks” whenever they like.

    Going by this, they’ll have to shoot me in the back if they want me to stop riding my bike. In any case – cameras at the ready.

    Of course, for those that don’t quite understand – I know the system’s corrupt, but I have the Right of appeal and access to current affair TV shows that would be more than happy to take up the story.

    • DownshiftFast5to1
      July 24, 2013 at 3:49 am

      Man, ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N in this post you seem like a very cool person.

      “the Imperial Acts Application”

      That phrase seems so,… I don’t know, I can’t put my finger on it. It’s just so, so very wrong.
      But at the same time, many of the laws in the unitedstate need that prefix in front of them because that’s what they are.

      • ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N
        July 26, 2013 at 2:03 am

        Thanks DSF. Australia is still a Monarchy as per our 1999 Federal Referendum. The USSA isn’t. Australia’s Constitution is a mix of USSA and English Constitutions. You guys have your amendments, we have certain international Human Rights and the Application Act written in as clauses.

        English law is a jumbled mess, which is inherently useful. Many of our Statutes attempt to secretly override Constitutional Laws – which are supreme. Therefore those Statutes are invalid and have no lawful force or effect unless we CONSENT to them. But people are blind to this simple fact and cower at the side of the road when confronted by the Gestapo.

        Most Australians don’t even know we have a Constitution as it’s not hammered into our heads from birth like Americans. Which means Parliament tries to get away with overriding the Constitution at every level.

        There need only be one law: “No harm shall be done to any person’s life, liberty or property”. Of course, some additional text might need to be written in but if everyone follows that law, it would be a better place – except for greedy politicians.

    • July 24, 2013 at 9:33 am

      Thanks, Rev –

      I feel compelled to do something… I prefer non-violence/avoidance. I hope that will be sufficient….

      • Jean
        July 24, 2013 at 2:44 pm

        I’d think avoidance and selective violence would work best.
        Avoid as long as possible; engage on your terms to persuade pursuers to leave you alone. And then expat to somplace civilized, like Venus. ;-)

      • ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N
        July 26, 2013 at 1:49 am

        It’s a big ask to expect all clovers to throw their plates in the woods, which make up about 80% of the population I’m guessing. Providing they know the TRUTH that is, that they have the inalienable Right to unencumbered “travel” (not “drive” – which every law dictionary defines as a paid profession – is a privilege) and therefore “registration” is only required for commercial vehicles.

        Registration is a means to confiscation. If all clovers knew how they were being scammed they’d dump their plates in a heartbeat.

        When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.

        • DowenshiftFast5to1
          July 26, 2013 at 2:59 am

          ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N wrote, “When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.”

          Truer words have been seldom spoken.

          …Or maybe they’ve been often spoken and such words never reach the light of day?

          …Or the eras they reach do not hear.

          • DownshiftFast5to1
            July 26, 2013 at 3:03 am

            I really do hate it when I have to await moderation.
            Who doesn’t?
            Dowenshift!?
            Crap! I can’t spell.
            Yesterday was national tequila day.
            Better a day late, than never, I suppose?

            • July 26, 2013 at 9:35 am

              Morning, Downshift –

              Hey, if you register your posts will appear immediately (skip the moderation queue).

          • DownshiftFast5to1
            July 26, 2013 at 3:13 am

            I meant to say, …’Or the ears they reach do not hear.’
            and not, ‘…Or the eras they reach do not hear.’

            Yeesh. Really, I’m going to have to hang it up tonite.
            I so detest errors like that.

            As if anyone is listening.
            As if they are nodding if they can hear me.
            [Que Pink Floyd.]

            Google makes sure they they don’t hear me.
            The People love Google because it blocks out those who shouldn’t be heard because Google blocks out those who disrupt Dreamtime.

        • July 26, 2013 at 9:59 am

          My primary goal is to get them – some of them – to think. I use the cow tag analogy because it’s both applicable as well as obviously degrading. That might make them mad. And maybe, having been aroused, they’ll think on it some….

  22. Keenan
    July 24, 2013 at 2:15 am

    Eric, July 4 is a long way off. As the plate scanners run afoul of the 4th amendment, wouldn’t it be fitting to toss the tags on September 17 – Constitution Day, especially since the act of congress proclaiming it mandates that all publicly funded educational institutions provide educational programming on the history of the American Constitution on that day.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_Day_%28United_States%29

    • July 24, 2013 at 9:34 am

      Hi Keenan,

      It’s not a bad idea; let’s see what kind of response we get. If enough people show interest, we can amend the date!

      Unfortunately, EPautos has been blackballed by Goo-gul and so, the reach of this site is decreasing at an exponential rate. Our regulars know we’re here, but the outside world is being shunted away from us.

      And of course, we can’t get anything more than automated form letter replies from the Black Pyramid (Goo-gul).

      We’re looking at options, including a name/URL change and starting over from scratch.

      • Jean
        July 24, 2013 at 12:53 pm

        Yeah, Goo-Gul has it’s political cant, too, and you DEFINITELY aren’t one of the Elite’s chosen. ;-)

        Googoltha is just another hand pushing the wheel of destruction. One big effing hand, though, given that control of information grants control over others. (1984 again. Paraphrased.)

        • July 24, 2013 at 1:11 pm

          Hi Jean,

          Yeah… they just flipped a switch – and our page rank/visibility literally collapsed overnight. The worst part is they will not tell you what, specifically, the problem (for them) is. There’s no appeal, no way to communicate with an actual human being. All you can do – the only thing you can do – is submit an online form (they call it a reconsideration request) and then wait – for months, perhaps forever. They will not respond directly. Just automated (and generic) form replies.

          It’s very frustrating.

          I took a big leap of faith when I decided to go it alone – my own shop (so to speak) rather than just write columns for other outlets. For a time, it seemed to be working. We were building up a substantial reader base, sufficient to earn enough income from Goo-guhl ads to cover the cost of maintaining the site (servers as well as paying Dom and me enough to make the investment of time/work worthwhile).

          But they’ve shut us down very effectively – and we’re now trying to figure out some way to make it work again.

          • Eightsouthman
            July 24, 2013 at 1:28 pm

            eric, no contract?

          • Mithrandir
            July 24, 2013 at 1:34 pm

            I think it is something similar to filter bubbling. Some search engines do this.

            Two search engines that I think are good are duckduckgo and ixquick

          • liberranter
            July 25, 2013 at 4:40 pm

            Googoltha (thanks for that one, Jean!) is the Establishment’s search engine, which is why I NEVER use it unless forced to. I have no idea how to what extent the other, “lesser” search engines are “owned” by the Overlord Class, but I’m betting that they receive considerably less attention than the Big G. I personally use Ask.com as my default search engine and haven’t had any problem finding resources I need through them. Yahoo! is also usable (though suspect, for the same reasons Googoltha is). Dogpile and Beaucoup (a metasearch engine) are two other alternatives.

      • Charles
        July 24, 2013 at 4:58 pm

        Eric I have no problems coming to this site.

        Also check out the clover comments on the Daily Mail regarding the birth of the royal baby- there has been euphoria on this side of the Pond:

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2375788/Royal-baby-Kate-Middleton-Prince-William-son-leave-Kensington-Palace-Bucklebury.html

        • Eightsouthman
          July 24, 2013 at 5:14 pm

          Charles, on my private forum of 60 something to 80 something men, we were just too excited, so much so that one guy related he just peed himself when he got the news. Here’s a source for several good articles about the event. http://www.theonion.com/articles/royal-baby-born,33171/

      • Curtis
        July 25, 2013 at 8:17 pm

        EP auto or eric peters auto comes up on my goo-goo search. YOU are still somebody! :)

      • July 26, 2013 at 12:25 am

        I just found out that gmail has been marking my updates from your site as spam because “other people think it is spam”. Hell, I never set it to mark them that way. I don’t know how much has gone forever from being older than gmail keeps spam in the folder.

        • July 26, 2013 at 10:07 am

          We’re in the crosshairs, PM.

          Goo-guhl has done something (we’re not sure exactly what) to this site that’s worked like sugar in the gas tank. We’re working on options, including a name and address change.

  23. liberranter
    July 23, 2013 at 11:56 pm

    @Scottscobig:

    I feel your pain (been there, doin’ that). It’s a slow, arduous process, after you’ve “seen the light,” to try to reach those closest to you. It also has a more than fifty percent chance of failing.

    I tried, in vain, for the nearly ten years before his death to reach my father, but he was just too “evangeliconned” to stop brainstemming. I’m trying with my brother, but it’s almost as bad as it was with Dad. It’s just too painful, for people who’ve had toxic ideology spoon-fed to them in the form of tasty pablum and therefore have never had to engage the organ between their ears, to start thinking critically, especially at an advanced age.

    Surprisingly, my mother shows little flashes of comprehension, although she’s still a Faux News junkie (another one of Dad’s bad habits she picked up over the years) who still defaults to the “if only the Republicans were in power it would all be better” nonsense whenever cornered by uncomfortable facts. But I’m not optimistic that she’ll ever really “get it.” When you’ve spent nearly nine decades immersed in lies, drilled into you since early childhood during an era that was much less cynical and much more trusting of authoritah than would ever be possible today, a change of such magnitude as accepting anarcho-capitalism/libertarianism and acknowledging the sheer falsehood of everything you’ve been taught to believe would probably destroy you. It would be too much of a shock to the system.

    • DownshiftFast5to1
      July 24, 2013 at 3:44 am

      liberranter wrote, “acknowledging the sheer falsehood of everything you’ve been taught to believe would probably destroy you”

      Powerful stuff there.

      It also means, I’ve (we’ve) been destoryed and reborn.

      Insert a certain scene form the film, V For Vendetta, here x.

      • liberranter
        July 25, 2013 at 4:31 pm

        Insert a certain scene form the film, V For Vendetta, here x.

        Thanks for the reminder, DS. I haven’t watched V4V in a couple of years. It’s past time for a refresher!

  24. Brandonjin
    July 23, 2013 at 1:06 am

    Yes, we certainly need millions of people in order for this to work. I’ll remove it next year… not sure if I’ll drive anywhere that day, but hey!
    If this gets big enough where I hear about it through an avenue other than this one, I’ll totally jump on board. I just don’t want to be the only one around here doing it ;)
    Not too many libertarian mentalities in college towns.

    Are there EPAutos.com bumper stickers? I need to find some similar people in real life. My car would probably be vandalized if I put one on, since this is an extremist website and all. Or I’d be arrested/detained. Or people would start arguments questioning why I use government-built roads. Similar to what Brent and liberranter were saying, people don’t like freedom, and want to assist their government in putting down those that oppose the standard. They like being told what to do, and certainly will everyone else.

    :)

    Also, at least people are still allowed to personalize their state tag, right?

    • DownshiftFast5to1
      July 23, 2013 at 3:58 am

      Brandonjin wrote, “My car would probably be vandalized if I put one on, since this is an extremist website and all. Or I’d be arrested/detained. Or people would start arguments questioning why I use government-built roads. ”

      Ha. I had similar thoughts when the Tea Party protests first happened when I painted some words on the spare tire cover of my old SUV: LewRockwell.com Not the Left,… Not the Right….

      I’ve forgotten what the last line was.
      Seemed kind of in-your-face to me at the time and I was kind of nervous about it. Especially as I drove it by the protesting area, and for quite awhile afterwards.
      As a result I learned it’s true what they say, “In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”

      One guy pulled up next to me and said, “Hey! Yeah, LewRockwell.com anti-taxes, right?” I said yes and waved as the light turned and we went opposite directions.

      An old man in a Cadillac pull up next to me later while I was driving down a busy city street. He was saying/kind of yelling: this, and that, and I could tell he was kind of shaken and upset. I told him calmly, just go check out the website. And I smiled.

      I’d bet money he did.

      I have a ‘Secede!’ bumper sticker on my tailgate now.
      http://www.lewrockwell.com/store/
      Just like with my old SUV it’s gotten to be kind of fun watching in the rear view mirror to see who looks and tries to read it.
      I’d like to put an ericpetersautos.com bumper sticker opposite to it.
      I’ve thought about painting the web address on it, maybe the slogan, Live and Let Live, too.

      The bumper sticker hasn’t helped me to find some similar people in real life, but wearing my anarchno-capitalism t-shirt into a bar did the trick. I just haven’t followed up on that encounter.

      • Eightsouthman
        July 23, 2013 at 4:12 am

        Downshift, I was at the dump with a roofing trailer, about to leave when this really young guy jumped out the passenger side of a trash truck and ran at me hollering about my SECEDE sticker on my drivers side back window, the one done in a Tx. flag. He was so excited and a guy not much older was so pissed, just burned his butt this guy was interested in something he flat didn’t understand. I gave the guy the source of where he could get one and smiled all the way back to the job. All is not lost. A young’un, maybe bring round some more. As an aside, my wife mentioned to her coworkers one day we’d signed a Secede petition and got a plethora of blank looks. One woman asked Secede?, didn’t know the word. Never mind.

        • DownshiftFast5to1
          July 23, 2013 at 4:38 am

          Eightsouthman wrote, “a plethora of blank looks.”

          I see those in my rear view mirror a lot too. Especially when I drove my SUV. I mean, it was great big lettering, right at eye level, some people worked hard to look at everything and anything except what was right in front of their eyes.
          It was almost comical to watch.

          Person to person, blank looks is a whole lot better than an uncovered yawn. When I see either I usually think to myself: they must be heavily into bonds and or real estate.

          Anyway, cool story about the trash truck guys.

          • PreacherRye
            July 23, 2013 at 4:47 pm

            Enjoyed the back and forth between you 2 here! I plan on buying a shirt and bumper sticker regarding Anarcho Capitolism. Think I want a “Liberty” shirt too. If Eric sold EPautos.com bumper stickers I’d buy several.

        • GW
          July 26, 2013 at 5:19 pm

          Perhaps the Bumper sticker should read…

          “Secede to Succeed”

          …it might confuse the dumbasses however.

  25. Eightsouthman
    July 22, 2013 at 10:41 pm

    eric, at least you get to keep your vehicle for a year after paying the ransom. Evidently your gold always belongs to the govt. http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/dailypaul/FClq/~3/n5yQj5eOPgc/feds-seize-gold-coins-worth-80-million-from-pennsylvania-family?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email

    • Jean
      July 23, 2013 at 3:17 pm

      Private ownership of gold was amde illegal some time ago, after dropping the gold standard for money.
      Meaning, ultimately, the gov’t controls the gold (real wealth), and we’re just paying with paper scrip.
      Ain’t no accident.

      Someone whould carpet bomb Fort Knox. Just for fun. :-D

      • MoT
        July 23, 2013 at 9:09 pm

        No loss if Ft. Knox were flattened. Buildings alone would be destroyed. No inventory there to lose.

  26. July 22, 2013 at 7:43 pm

    Michael Badnarik pointed out that you can legally drive without plates on your vehicle if you have something called a “writ of origin” for the vehicle. This is something that comes from the factory, and that a car dealership must send to the state when you get a loan. If you bought your car new, outright without a loan, you can request that piece of paper during a transaction with a dealer and they will give it to you. You can provide that at a traffic stop instead of “registration” paperwork. I haven’t looked farther into this, because I pay payments on both of my cars, but I also read once that if you bought the car used and it is paid off you can request this piece of paper from the state. Even if you can get out of it, expect to get pulled over quite a bit.

    I considered buying a junker just to go out when I’m bored and inconvenience the traffic mafia once in a while when they have to stop me and let me go.

    I drive with plates on my car and a driver’s license in my pocket because I was threatened with jail time if I did not. I went 7 years driving daily without a license and 6 years without registering my plates… I have plates and a license now, but not until after I made the judge threaten me. ONLY under direct coercion via threats of violence against my family (removing a father from a household by force is a violent experience for any family) would I comply. I made it very clear to both judges that the ONLY reason I was going to do what they commanded was because they had a “gang of men with guns who will put me in a cage if i do not”.

    • July 22, 2013 at 7:49 pm


      There’s a clip of Michael Badnarik talking about that.

      For anybody that is not familiar with Michael Badnarik I suggest checking out some of his constitution class videos, debates, and interviews.

  27. liberranter
    July 22, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    But, it must be done all at once. By millions of us.

    Then, we will succeed.

    If only. Unfortunately, as everyone here is well aware, Cloverdom is the reigning psychopathology in Amerika today. If people were ever to find tagging objectionable, they would have done so 100 years ago when this nonsense first started – right around the same time as the income tax and the establishment of the Fed. Coincidence that these things all happened at once? Methinks not.

    As it is, the sheeple are too used to being corralled, labeled, tracked, and herded – for “their own good.” Plus, to chuck the tin tags would be another way of having to exercise some responsibility for themselves, which, as we all know, is like suggesting to a snail that they drink a salt water cocktail.

    • July 23, 2013 at 12:52 am

      Dear lib,

      Exactly.

      It’s a classic “if pigs had wings, they could fly” proposition.

      Everyone here knows this. But it’s worth underscoring more explicitly nevertheless, for anarcho-capitalist newbies if no one else.

      The tags, along with all the other myriad clover controls over the individual, perfectly reflect the unfree psychology of the “democratic majority” which has expressed its “democratic will” by manifesting the current state of affairs.

      It was never an unfortunate accident. It was cause and effect. Cause: clover mentality. Effect: democratic dictatorship.

      • Scottscobig
        July 23, 2013 at 5:37 pm

        Perfect. Succinct.

        You guys ever notice the quality difference in commentary here and on other libertarian sites versus, say, theblaze.com?

        Just glad to find a home where my lack of loyalty to the donkeys or the elephants isn’t punished; much less mt non-worship of conservatism. When do you think more people will get around to evolving into libertarian/anarchocapitalists? Will they ever?

        I have a brother whom I love. Smart guy. Great guy. Works for the IRS in the strangest capacity. Get this: he drives around and visits weigh stations. You know, where truckers must submit to the fascist ideal of proving they’re innocent in the face of a presumption of guilt. As an added bonus, some truckers are treated to my brother’s scrutiny of their diesel fuel. Evidently, the same forces that keep those high mpg diesel engines from broaching our shores have also made it illegal to use red diesel- a fuel reserved for farmers, I think. Anyway, my bro can approach anyone and demand to inspect the fuel in his tank. Pretty great, huh? Look into all else truckers must endure from the state, if you’re curious or if you need an excuse to commit murder and/or suicide. But, don’t worry. I’m sure none of that has anything to do with the price you pay for any given product. We’re all aware of how rare it is that anything we consume arrives at our vicinity via 18 wheeler. And our kindly govt would never apply to all drivers the myriad of regulations currently applied to truckers. If there’s ever a revolution, truckers ought to be, and I suspect the majority would be, on the front lines.

        • July 23, 2013 at 5:55 pm

          Hi Scott,

          Roger that!

          When I turned away from the Elephant, it cost me a great deal. I lost several of my formerly regular (and high-paying) gigs, including National Review and the Chicago Tribune. I also felt the hate at some local Tea Party events I attended. Bring up the issue of Social Security. Or – far more likely to provoke a vitriolic response – question anything having to do with “defense,” the American Legions (“our troops”) and such like. Tell them you don’t like being mortgaged in perpetuity to “help” fund the government conditioning of other people’s children (i.e., property taxes for public schools). Mention that you don’t give a damn who wants to marry (or have sex with) whom – so long as they’re consenting adults and not looking to make you subsidize the event. Denounce the war on (some) drugs. Defend the Fourth Amendment.

          You’ll soon find out how much these double-thinkers value “our freedoms.”

          I’ve come to detest “conservatives” the most – more than “liberals” – because at least with liberals, you’re dealing with people who make no bones about their collectivism and authoritarianism. But the flag-humping, bible-clutching onagers who bray about “our freedoms” while denying them at every turn are utterly insufferable.

          • Scottscobig
            July 23, 2013 at 7:58 pm

            Eric,

            Did you read that awesome column by that marine on lewrockwell.com ?

            http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/07/david-johns/dont-thank-me-for-my-service/

            Awesome.

            My hats off to you for giving up so much to honor the truth. Would that I were that brave.

            The argument with my bros was actually about the gay marriage thing. The one IRS bro actually said to me, “Scott, there IS a role for the govt, here.” I read a great column by Dennis Praeger about that issue. Unfortunately he falls into the camp with the rest of the cons. He just can’t see the evil of involving the govt in these things; that is, involving men with guns pointing at us in these things. Eric, are you against education for our children? Shame. Forget the fact that it comes at the point of a gun, and that that fact should negate any positivity coming out of it- if there were any.

            “Our freedoms” Yeah. Where’d they go? They were flushed by people all around us. Yet cons are blissfully unaware of that fact. You’re right about liberals. And besides, our ideals are a lot closer to the orig. democrat party than Lincoln’s freedom-crushing republican party.

          • Bobbye
            July 24, 2013 at 5:10 pm

            Hey! I’m one of those “bible-clutchers”, but I desire the ‘government’ that the tribes of Israel had under the Judges, i.e. no government at all. No police, no prison, no army, just citizen soldiers, no tags for the carts, no taxes. Most of the bible-clutchers you meet don’t believe hardly anything God says. The clovers power is the power of Mom; the wife, the daughter, the misstress. She can only exercise power thru a government power center. As long as women can vote, the clovers rule. As bat-shit crazy as I seem, I do love your website and appreciate your love for freedom.

            • July 24, 2013 at 7:46 pm

              Hi Bobbye,

              Then you’re my kind of Christian!

              I actually have no beef with Christianity or any belief system (worship a goat – or a spaghetti monster, for all I care) so long as the person abides by the NAP.

          • Roland
            July 25, 2013 at 4:33 pm

            Well said, Bobbye. Unfortunately, few Christians want to be bothered with thinking about what the state actually does and how opposite it is to what Jesus taught. “Render unto Caesar!” they shout. They don’t even bother to finish the sentence, for crying out loud, let alone try to understand the context. They just cover their ears and pretend they’ve won the debate. As far as I’m concerned, Romans 13, which state-worshippers continually cite as evidence that we are commanded to obey anybody who claims to be in charge anytime anywhere, proves that the modern state cannot be the “authority” we are to obey. Why? Because it says that if you are not doing evil, you have nothing to fear from it. As we all know, you can be doing no evil and still have plenty to fear from modern government. With the stroke of a pen it can declare the product that is your livelihood to be illegal, thereby destroying your ability to support yourself and your family. It can break down your door, shoot the family dog and terrorize your kids because it mistook your address for that of a suspected recreational vegetable grower. Even relatively small local governments can confiscate your wealth because you failed to correctly fill out some confusing form, or you forgot to affix the properly-numbered sticker to your car’s cow-tag (great comparison, Eric!). If you’ve paid for your home but fall on hard times and can’t pay the county the thousands of dollars it demands this year for educating other people’s kids, it will take it from you. If you sufficiently resist, it will kill you. Nothing to fear? Ha!

        • Eightsouthman
          July 23, 2013 at 6:06 pm

          Scott, is theblaze actually Libertarian? Is that the way they pose? I had no idea, just read a great deal from a guy who sends it out. I subscribed to it for a while just to see but never saw anything Libertarian about it, statist Republicanism? Yep, plenty. Have you ever asked your brother why he does that job? Does he think a trucker is really getting rich using red diesel or trying to get his wife some medical treatment? As a former owner-operator, I can tell you back in the 70’s we shut down our rigs twice protesting getting ripped off at the pumps. Hell, we were starving. I bet if your brother’s job description required him to get in a rig and make a living from what he made for a year, he’d never work for the IRS or anyone else doing that job. A “rich” trucker, contradiction of terms.

          • July 23, 2013 at 7:08 pm

            I’m pretty sure The Blaze is solidly neo-con Republican (i.e., flag-humping, fambly values – whatever the fuck that is – rabid militarism/American exceptionalism, “safety” – for the children – and all the rest of it).

          • Scottscobig
            July 23, 2013 at 7:42 pm

            I meant to contrast the blaze and sites like this one. The blaze, glenn beck, rush and hannity; these are whom I blame for our lack of a pres. Ron Paul. I hate them. And there is a night and day contrast btw them and us as far as comments on columns or stories or whatever.

            I drove otr for only 6 mo. Talk about big bro watching, right?

            As far as my bro., I got into one screaming match with him and another bro once. I love these guys and I hate those arguments. It happened with my dad once, too.

            They’re typical of your average beck/blaze fan. I’ve tried to describe their mental illness on here before. People like beck and his fans have some libertarian leanings. I’ve heard beck say stuff that matches to a syllable stuff I’ve heard Ron Paul say, not to mention the intrepid posters at lewrockwell.com including Eric. What happens is, the typical conservative eventually reaches a line he won’t cross. In fact, my line is abortion. Other than that, I have no social or other issue I would see codified by law. But abortion is a sticking point for me. For others, the line they won’t cross can’t even be explained away, like my line, via the non-aggression principle. Take war, for instance. My brothers and beck et al will never come to see that it’s evil to attack and kill someone who isn’t in the act of harming your person or property. Ditto for all of the egregious things cops do to us routinely. We’re hurting no one; yet they can detain us and take our money and dictate to us what we will or won’t do. Aggression needn’t involve bodily harm. If one centilla of freedom is taken, the action that took it is aggressive and against natural law.

            Anyway, my bros and I are Mormon and so, that religious culture, like many religious cultures, leads us, if we’re not careful, to justify this idea of saving others from themselves or preventing various harms for Lincoln’s purportedly holy but actually pernicious “greater good.”

            I also have a 3rd bro who’s an actual IRS agent. Anyway, I’m trying to convey that, in person, I can’t argue without getting overly passionate and ‘throwing the baby out with the bath water.” So, I avoid it. Maybe more practice would avail me. Maybe I could learn to not be so attached to my arguments. It’s just that their arguments are, verbatim, things I used to think and have evolved beyond. I guess I still have some conservative ideas about how I live my life. It’s just that I’ve constructed a wall in my mind that separates those conservative ideas from politics or law. Indeed, live and let live; except, in my mind, when it comes to aborting a baby. Am I a hypocrite? Wait. Don’t answer that. I am. But not necessarily only for that reason. And it’s also for those reasons that I won’t confess, that I don’t blame my IRS bros so much. I, too, ‘benefit,’ though I use the term loosely, from govt. But I’d still shut the whole thing down if it were up to me.

        • MoT
          July 23, 2013 at 9:03 pm

          I work for a well-services company and drive rigs out to frac, cement, coil tubing jobs, and the constant “threat” by DOT is ever present. They say it’s to keep you “safe” but when they nit-pick about things as mundane as “clear” or “red” diesel, to which our overlords give specific tax-breaks to specific end-users, it’s simply a sign of how out of control and absurd it all is. Your brother is simply an enforcer for the chief hoodlums and checking up on whether they’re victims are paying sufficient tribute.

          • MoT
            July 23, 2013 at 9:05 pm

            Shoot. Spell check stinks. Their instead of they’re…. Isn’t there a plugin for WordPress that allows users to edit comments?

          • Eightsouthman
            July 23, 2013 at 9:38 pm

            MoT, do you like the tubing truck jobs? I always sorta liked using that truck. First time for me I went out about 2 am on Kermit highway with BIL who was a big dog for Big 3. I drove and he spun tubing off for 3 miles, had a welder splice it and backed up for 3 miles while he spooled it back on. Had some tricky coordinating between driver and tubing man. We started drilling water wells on the side and would use their equipment to frac with. No truth to the rumor we stirred everybody’s wells up N of Odessa near Dixie for miles around. My well’s pumping mud. Hhhmm, other than the slab around the well rising a foot, we’ve had no problems ha ha ha. Sure made water after that.

        • toldev
          July 24, 2013 at 1:50 pm

          Red diesel fuel is just ordinary diesel fuel that has had red dye added to it. The feral government mandates that any diesel fuel sold that does not have road use taxes included in the price be dyed red. Farmers and other off road users can buy such fuel to operate off road equipment, such as a tractor. The government is very concerned about such fuel being diverted to on road use. The reason being that the road use taxes can approach or in some high tax states exceed $1.00 per gallon. A single trucker can go through over 100 gallons a day and you know how much uncle scam hates being screwed out of the protection money he feels entitled to.

          • Scottscobig
            July 24, 2013 at 2:01 pm

            Thanks for the info. So, it’s not rabid environmentalism, like I thought and the red diesel is cleaner or anything.

            It’s simply about the govt’s ability to extract money at gunpoint.

            Harder and harder to pledge allegiance to the govt flag.

            Expat, anyone?

          • Eightsouthman
            July 24, 2013 at 2:12 pm

            toldev, I know guys who got over 6 mpg pulling a 53′ box 20 years ago but due to EPA regs on new diesels, they’re getting 4+mpg, sick. So tell me EPA, how much is gained when you use half again as much fuel? Sorry, didn’t mean to confuse your clover brain. I know, yall are only doing it for us. Please, save me from those who want to protect me. Besides, I like the smell of burnt diesel in the morning. Soon they’ll have a timer on idling, old rigs will become premium….or non-registerable.

          • toldev
            July 27, 2013 at 4:07 am

            You are exactly right about the new EPA regs killing big truck fuel economy. However, if you were to discuss the issue with the cloverish management at most trucking companies, they would blame the drop in fuel economy on the higher speed limits.

          • Eightsouthman
            July 27, 2013 at 4:32 am

            toldev, higher speeds don’t compute in this state. We’ve had the same speed limits for more than 20 years. It’s stupid too, having trucks run slower than 4 wheelers on interstates or anywhere for that matter is only asking for more accidents.

        • July 25, 2013 at 12:14 am

          Dear Scott,

          The “public roads” are of course one of the worst instances of “public” status providing the perfect pretext for ever more tyrannical micromanagement of our lives.

          Since the roads are not private, and since we have no alternative but to travel on them to get from Point A to Point B, we are SOL. Creeping loss of liberty is a forgone conclusion.

          Classic “camel nose in the tent” phenomenon.

          The most infuriating aspect is of course how in a “progressive democracy” it is our “fellow citizens” (translation: complete strangers) who self-righteously deprive us of our sovereignty and liberty.

          At least tinpot dictators in banana republics acknowledge that they lack moral legitimacy.

          • Eightsouthman
            July 25, 2013 at 12:45 am

            Bevin, Tor, what really gets to me is the current Gallop poll showing Congress approval rating at 10%, meaning nobody trusts them but having BO at something like 37%, not too good but a far cry from 10%. Peter Schiff said yesterday that we’re anywhere from “right now” (not a direct quote)to “in the next year” from having a serious economic collapse. Now I’ve owned his Euro Pacific stock and it did quite well so I think he knows his stuff. Other credible economists agree with him. So who the f–k votes for these dips? Next senate election will there be a significant amount of votes for anybody? I told some good friends who didn’t really stay up with things, in fact, the wife was a flag waving, saluting automaton I had a major row with because she called me Anti-American, not something that really set well since I don’t wish to see the whole thing collapse but certainly don’t wave the flag or any of that bs. Her hubby, my best friend, finally pointed out to her the people who raped my wife and I, took everything we had including the farm were the very people who were responsible for our situation. She finally started reading what I sent her and last time I spoke to her said. You were right. I had no idea what she was speaking of and told her so. She said, About the US. we are going to collapse into civil war. Not exactly what I said but I did say it would devolve into a bad shooting situation a great many people wouldn’t live through for more than just shooting reasons but lack of food, medical, housing etc. To be honest, for the first time I am scared of the immediate future. Things are slowing way down everywhere. I’m really glad to be in the part of Tx. that’s “booming” but realize it could all go to hell quickly and a few thousand jobs in the patch could be gone with the wind or at least the workers might stay on the jobs but the govt. would be controlling everything under martial law. Things are bleak from where I sit. This is not the news I’d hoped to ever come face to face with. We might survive here but I doubt it. As my cousin just a bit older than me said about being prepared, he had all the food ammo and other things he needed…. a bottle of Scotch, a .357 and a bullet. Me too. I have a case of beer, a shotgun and a box of shells. I think I’d rather be dealing with a zombie situation if the food and electricity stops. If we were 30 years younger it still wouldn’t be anything I’d think we could get through unscathed.

          • July 25, 2013 at 1:00 am

            Dear Eight,

            Funny you should mention zombies. I’ve just been catching up on missed episodes of “The Walking Dead.”

            How amazing that a comic strip, sorry “graphic novel,” would have such emotionally wrenching writing? Almost Kafkaesque in its bleakness and despair.

            Many observers have noted correctly that the flood of zombie apocalypse movies and TV series reflects deep rooted anxieties about societal collapse and a scenario in which those who have lost their humanity preying on those who haven’t.

            Katrina was just a hint of what is to come.

            In many ways, the reality is worse than that depicted in The Walking Dead. In TWD one was at least free to defend oneself.

            In reality, in the USSA, the PTB are disarming anyone who attempts to defend himself against zombies of any stripe.

          • July 25, 2013 at 1:09 am

            Dear Eight,

            I should add though, how gratifying that your friend’s wife was open-minded enough to see the light, once it was shown to her.

            That’s gotta be something.

            Doesn’t happen often enough.

            I subscribe to Salon.com in order to track what kneejerk liberals and kneejerk conservatives are spouting.

            Being kneejerk liberal, the leftist Salon.com regularly runs articles explaining what their counterparts on the right, kneejerk conservatives have been spouting. So I get two fer one.

            Anyway, not a lot of open minds on either side.

            All zombies. All mindlessly feeding off the flesh of those still living.

          • Eightsouthman
            July 25, 2013 at 1:28 am

            Bevin, I’d turned one mind since 2000, maybe a couple more old college buddies who actually did vote Lib this last election. That’s a long time for those results. Other people I thought were smarter are well more statist than I feared. I haven’t been communicating with many friends lately and I guess that’s my fault but it’s theirs also. I know who I can count on and that’s very few and if the SHTF, it will probably come down to 3-4 people. I also used to take Salon for the same reason but I read it long enough it just became depressing. What in hell is the matter with those people? Forest too close? Only see a tree? TWD is done by statists too. I’d let the cop do what he could for me but he’d best be careful. I never claimed I wouldn’t blindside someone to save a life or two…even if it’s only mine or my wife’s. Even though it’s a comedy, I think the more likely scenario except for all the power and water to work is Zombieland. If you can watch that and not laugh every few seconds I don’t know what to tell you. BM dying has me rolling in the floor every time. In real life, humor will be in short supply…..in either scenario.

          • July 25, 2013 at 2:00 am

            Dear Eight,

            “What in hell is the matter with those people? Forest too close? Only see a tree?”

            They’ve been bitten by the walkers. The publik skools. They can’t help themselves.

            “TWD is done by statists too.”

            Often true. But don’t let that scare us away. They often create these works unwittingly. They often fail to see the implications of their own creations. That doesn’t invalidate the conclusions.

  28. Bobbye
    July 22, 2013 at 4:57 pm

    “Why do most of us so blithely accept being tagged?” Believe it or not humans have what is called ‘human nature’. There are people who deny it ,but would they also deny that horses have a natue? Dogs have a nature? Or cats? People need an authority to ‘certify’ their ‘ownership’. Thats what government does. You ‘own’ your house, your business, your life? How do you prove it? The government certifies it. This is convienent and easy for most people. They will never consent to not having a government! ” The earth is the Lord’s” has been replaced with ” the earth is the government’s”.Of course the difference between government and the Lord is that the Lord will never put a gun to your head to enforce compliance. Still, almost all prefer government.

    • Jean
      July 23, 2013 at 3:14 pm

      As was inscribed on the king’s dog’s collar:
      I am His Highness’ dog at Kew;
      Pray tell me, sir, whose dog are you?

    • Scottscobig
      July 23, 2013 at 5:20 pm

      Hear! Hear!

  29. Bill in NC
    July 22, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    You could always take a page from RV owners and register in North Dakota.

    If I live in California my vehicle would all be registered to some off-the-shelf Nevada corporation.

    • July 22, 2013 at 3:27 pm

      Bill,

      That’s a damn fine idea; I need to look into it… thanks!

      • Eightsouthman
        July 22, 2013 at 4:31 pm

        eric, actually there’s a big advantage to setting your business up in Nevada as a class C corporation. Then all your vehicles would be registered to the corporation. They’re very reasonable in doing this. I have information from a company there, just a matter of finding it on the computer. If you’re interested let me know and I’ll try to find their name. Nevada doesn’t tell the IRS anything. The company I dealt with there supplied officers names so your name doesn’t even come up. They do all the bookwork for a very acceptable fee also. I’ll never set up a business again unless it’s like that. Like most SW states, Nevada doesn’t have an income tax either.

        • EricB
          July 23, 2013 at 12:10 am

          Nice, 8southman. Eric, if you get that info from him, please email it to me too!

          • July 23, 2013 at 9:25 am

            I will – I’m looking into the options!

          • Jean
            July 23, 2013 at 3:07 pm

            I’d appreciate that info, as well.

            sounds like Nevada might have a good “shelter” status soon.

        • MoT
          July 23, 2013 at 8:56 pm

          I found out about those options many years ago and they’re a solid way of making an end-run around the predators. Well, as much as one can possibly do given our present situtation. Much like registering a ship in Panama.

    • Brian
      July 24, 2013 at 4:16 pm

      Montana has a “Permanent registration” for vehicles 11 years old and older. One-time registration good as long as you don’t sell it.

      http://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/61/3/61-3-562.htm

      • FreemanDjango
        July 24, 2013 at 6:17 pm

        Brian
        Have you tried to read that statute? What in the hell does it cost to permanently register under this statute?? It sounds like one flat fee of $87.50 PLUS “the applicable registration and license fees,” PLUS an “administrative fee” PLUS a ‘donation’ fee (gotta love that term!), plus 5 times some other bizarre fee Plus 4 times some other fee if you have custom plates, PLUS an insurance verification fee of $5 which must be placed in a special account… WTF is going on ?? Could it be any more complicated??
        That statute is the biggest pile of B.S. gobbledygook since Greenspan and I’m a lawyer!

        • Eightsouthman
          July 24, 2013 at 6:43 pm

          Freeman, thanks, I was just about to move. Actually, I don’t buy green bananas. Ya never know when that vehicle will be gone, in the blink of an eye so to speak.

  30. FreemanDjango
    July 22, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    I totally agree with this post!!!

    Four years ago, I built a 3 wheel, recumbent, tadpole trike (Atomic Zombie Warrior) and put a small IC engine on it for this very reason. It has no license, registration or insurance and, in decent weather, I can motor around my local area at 25 MPH without the man’s scope up my ass and without paying him a dime for the “privilege.”

    It has pedals so it is a bicycle but I only use them for starting from a dead stop to save the clutch. It’s very comfortable and easy and fun to ride.

    As a big side benefit, it gets 180 MPG. For now, it’s still legal in my state but this kind of vehicle has been getting more and more attention and regulation from Statists because of the potential loss of revenue they threaten to the State.

    I am sick and tired of constantly paying money to “The Man” for a Pretty Little Sticker for my cars’, trailers’ and motorcycles’ license plates every other year in order to avoid getting a ticket for NOT having the Pretty Little Sticker. There is NO other purpose to the stickers.

    The public “servants” at the DMV do NOT check the safety of my vehicles or verify the insurance or do ANYTHING before selling me the mandated, Pretty Little Sticker. (Amazingly, they don’t accept credit cards at the DMV offices, despite charging you an arm and a leg for everything. “Let’s make it as inconvenient as possible to deal with The Man.”) The fee for the Pretty Little Sticker is just another f’ing tax and I’m damn sick of it and the hassle of constantly getting it for NO DAMN REASON.

    I seriously doubt many people will risk the penalty for chucking license plates because they’ve been tolerating this Pretty-Little-Sticker extortion my entire life (nearly 60 years) and I haven’t heard anyone else bitch about it.

    And, frankly, most Amerikans are too fat, lazy and stupid to safely and effectively ride around on a recumbent bike, let alone build one. Until some Libertarian group decides to secede, those of us who love liberty and don’t mind the responsibility that comes with liberty are screwed…

    • BrentP
      July 22, 2013 at 4:23 pm

      Ever notice when the subject of bicycling comes up so does ‘but you don’t have license plates and insurance’?

      Same with city stickers. In Chicago there is a proposal to ticket anyone who parks on any residential street in Chicago without a Chicago city sticker. Yep. Another ‘no visitors allowed’ law. Probably will require daily permits or something to visit anyone who lives in Chicago. Why is this you say? The herd is angry about people who do not buy city stickers for their cars. Yep. So the solution is more power for government. More intrusion into everyone’s lives because heaven forbid the guy down the block registered his car in suburbs or keeps it locked in the garage and he didn’t buy a city sticker. He got away with something…. punish him!

      That’s the mentality today. It isn’t about everyone standing up at once, it’s about crushing the few who dare say ‘no’.

      And that is how power is maintained. It’s not just government one has to fear but his neighbors as well.

      • liberranter
        July 22, 2013 at 5:17 pm

        In Chicago there is a proposal to ticket anyone who parks on any residential street in Chicago without a Chicago city sticker. Yep. Another ‘no visitors allowed’ law. Probably will require daily permits or something to visit anyone who lives in Chicago.

        Given the out-of-control levels of crime in Chicago right now, one wonders who would want to visit the place if they weren’t absolutely forced to. And then being forced to pay for the “privilege”?”

        I guess it’s a good thing the Windy City doesn’t need any revenue from tourists.

        • Jean
          July 23, 2013 at 3:06 pm

          Old radio joke:
          First prize is a Weekend in Chicago!
          Second prize: A WEEK in Chicago!
          Third prize: TWO WEEKS in CHICAGO!

          ;-) (I think they used Cincinatti in the original..)

          • July 23, 2013 at 6:17 pm

            There’s an old, old joke in California that goes something like this:

            I spent a week in Bakersfield one night…

          • Eightsouthman
            July 23, 2013 at 6:57 pm

            You don’t know me but you don’t like me. You say you care less how I feel. How many of you that sit and judge me ever walked the streets of Bakersfield?

          • July 23, 2013 at 7:07 pm

            Can’t reply to your reply, Eightsouthman – but I can assure you that I once walked the streets of Bakersfield. I was there TDY four weeks, and the assignment only SEEMED to last several years. They offered me the job permanently, and I had to restrain the urge to run from the room screaming.

            I’m sure some people like it there… or it would be deserted. :)

          • Eightsouthman
            July 23, 2013 at 7:28 pm

            MamaLiberty, now that’s funny. Reminds me of spending a week in Brownsville one night. Actually, my wife and another trucker went to a solid Mexican bar there and had a great time. They showed me how to eat jalos and follow it with tomato that killed the mouth burn, good!! I still do it on nearly a daily basis and if it would ever rain here, would probably be doing it daily. We did get 2″ last week, nearly doubled our yearly total.

          • Jean
            July 23, 2013 at 7:43 pm

            Eightsouthman, I didn’t mean anything personal..It was just what occured to me from Liberranter’s post above. I quote:
            Given the out-of-control levels of crime in Chicago right now, one wonders who would want to visit the place if they weren’t absolutely forced to. And then being forced to pay for the “privilege”?”

          • Eightsouthman
            July 23, 2013 at 8:01 pm

            Jean, no offense taken. I’ve actually never skewed to Bakersfield. That’s just the lyrics to a song I like. “I came here looking for something I couldn’t find anywhere else. Hey I’m not tryin to be nobody, just want a chance to be myself. I’ve spent a thousand miles of thumbing, yes I’ve worn blisters on my heels. Tryin to find me something better here on the streets of Bakersfield. I spent some time in San Francisco, spent a night there in the can. They threw this drunk man in my jail cell, I took $15 from that man. I left my watch and my old house key, don’t want people thinkin that I’d steal. Then I thanked him as I was leaving to walk the streets of Bakersfield”. I can dig it but always had my own cell, guess it must be the tux I always wear….or maybe it’s cause I’m a peaceful man.

      • Scottscobig
        July 23, 2013 at 5:17 pm

        That’s exactly it. Clover gets a vicarious thrill and feels he’s a small part of the power structure when he sees someone else get pinched. It goes back to the idea of “coveting…anything that is thy neighbor’s.”

        This is just one aspect of our herdhood that Eric brought up that we just accept as a matter of course; like being forced to buy car ins.

        From a certain point of view these ideas (anti-smoking laws come to mind) seem great. But great ideas don’t need to be made into laws. Keeping things optional never occurs to clover. If it’s good for him, it’s so good for the rest of us that he sees to it we’re forced to comply. Though, as I think about it, I think about 90% of the population would voluntarily self-tag if it were optional. And, yes, finishing the thought process, they’d end up forcing us radicals to tag up as well.

        • Jean
          July 25, 2013 at 12:05 pm

          Wasn’t the punsihment for such provable greed/envy to be stoned?

          (HEH)
          And if you could get them Stoned, wouldn’t it be GREAT to just let the grinder do its thing to Clovers? “Stoned-ground Clover, $1.50/lb.*”

          *: Not suitable for human consumption. Nor dog nor pig. Use as shark chum at your own risk.

      • Erik
        July 25, 2013 at 4:40 pm

        I’m from Chicago…. just recently moved out to the burbs.

        I had an indoor heated parking spot and never once paid for my sticker while living there. I also never received a ticket for neglecting to pay. One good thing about Chicago cops is many of them look the other way at the little offenses… As opposed to the Oak Park Police who are Nazi’s about all the little things like city stickers. My understanding is in Oak Park you have to buy one every quarter, not just every year. A friend of mine had so many on his windshield that the city of Oak Park wrote him a ticket because they were disrupting his view. He had kept them all on there because the city had previously ticketed him for not having more than the most recent sticker on there. The cops had assumed that he had failed to pay the previous months. He could have gone to court to fight the ticket, but why spend a day of your time for $50?

    • July 26, 2013 at 12:06 am

      If it’s got three wheels it’s not a bicycle. Having pedals or not has nothing to do with it.

      • DownshiftFast5to1
        July 26, 2013 at 2:48 am

        P.M.Lawrence wrote, “If it’s got three wheels it’s not a bicycle. ”

        I’ll second that.

        Plus, it’s funny.
        And, I never thought about it that much.

        Same goes for those “motorcycles” with three wheels?
        They seem bizarre to me, and remind me of training wheels.

        [I wonder if eric ever test drove one?]

        However; I don’t look down on those who ride them.
        They just seem funny to me,… the same way training wheels do.

        • July 26, 2013 at 9:41 am

          I’ve never ridden one (three wheeler).

          The Can Ams (see them a lot) seem well-engineered – unlike converted motorcycles. I’ve been behind a few of those and watched them almost tip over as the outside rear wheel lifts in a turn. The Can Ams, I think, have some type of all-independent suspension and so avoid that problem.

          • July 27, 2013 at 1:41 am

            The technical problem was solved a hundred years ago, and then used for years in cyclecars like the Morgan three wheeler: just reverse the layout to have a single rear driving wheel (which doesn’t even need a differential) and two forward wheels, canted a little so that the outer wheel that carries more load in a turn has some built in lean to match the turn. With the engine weight forward, the centre of gravity stays well within the wheel base under all circumstances. I believe the other layouts like that of the Robin Reliant were only favoured for tax reasons or because of marketing, as they “looked” better to potential buyers who didn’t know what was going on.

          • Eric_G
            July 28, 2013 at 4:41 pm

            This segment from UK Top Gear still cracks me up after watching many, many times:

            http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/clarkson-tips-over-reliant-robin

  31. z
    July 22, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Oh that would be awesome. Yet even at this late hour you couldn’t find a significant # of Amerikans who would toss their tags.

    • Eightsouthman
      July 22, 2013 at 5:02 pm

      Z, here’s another reason to toss plates….as well as wear a face mask. While they don’t address that in the article, I know Tx. as well as many other states have implemented facial recognition into their cameras of every sort including the DL office although they don’t admit it. For the last several years, taking a cue from Bushco, they have implemented all sorts of thing without informing the public. check this link: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/blacklistednews/hKxa/~3/dyxCUzhl_SI/M.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email

      • Hot Rod
        July 23, 2013 at 12:50 am

        Talking about tags and animals. My wife and I befriended a stray mom cat with 3 kittens. Being a “responsible” people we are I convinced my wife to befriend the cats. Then take them to the shelter to get the rabies vaccination and get neutered. We payed for all these costs for the mom and kittens out of our own pocket.

        We get there and find out that the mom tested positive for FIV (kind of a cat HIV I’m told) and FELV (kitten leukemia virus). Now since I never had any intent on keeping the cats or kittens but given them away after reasonably getting their rabies vaccination and neutering to people who wants cats, we are stuck in a bind.

        I don’t believe in Big Pharma and all their host of immunization to humans. I believe most of its is BS including Human HIV causing AIDs. But if that wasn’t lucrative enough they now require 4 vaccination for cats, for what I think is probably pure B.S. Years and years of living in the country with barn cats and they lived to respectable age, but somehow I’m supposed to believe in all this FELV and FIV scam. And to make matters worse I can’t do shit to give these kittens away as everyone else is scared to death of a positive FELV cat. You know I’ve never owned a cat or dog for years (early 80’s) and I just assumed that it was as easy as back then, but no it can’t be that easy. Always have to have a big money making scam in America, even owning pets has went from a fun hobby to a full time liability. And we know government is involved in all this, I can just bet there is some liability for releasing such cats into homes ourselves. The list of shots now extending to 5 additionaly weeks soon to be 2 months for a clean bill of health, of course by the time the kittens (assuming they pass) are able to have th government red stamp of ok, they won’t be kittens any longer. We’ve gotten kind of attached the cats, but at some point I’m about to cut loose the binding. Its not worth being a good samaritan in America, not even to desperate animals.

        Shit even if the FELV and FIV scam is the truth it never hurt us any as kids to not worry about such things playing with our outdoor cats. Is it just me or does government and cartels want to make people scared about everything including life itself? Might have to get the kittens euthanized unfortnately if they test positive.

        SAD…VERY SAD.

        • Eightsouthman
          July 23, 2013 at 1:55 am

          Hot Rod, unfortunately the Feleuk thing is a real killer. We’ve lost lots of cats to it and were proud when a vaccine was available as they just waste away and they’re generally a good size with their own personalities and part of the family when it happens. I’m looking at the same thing right this minute. I never have dealt with having kittens tested, just get them the vaccine when they’re old enough and call it good. The closer you are to a large town the more likely you’ll encounter more red tape. Having said that though, I don’t know a great deal about all the different shots for their protection or to save them when they have it. I have a rule of thumb, give them the vaccine and I never had one die of Feleuk after getting the vaccine. We just lost my oldest tom about a week ago so we’re sorta in limbo, just found him dead in an unoccupied dog kennel and don’t know what happened. Last I saw of him, he was fine. We live in some rough country and there’s myriad of things to get cats. About 10 months ago Tiny, the cat we lost, was out and about and I was sitting here with the window open about 8 am and heard a coyote that was really close, actually no more than 60′ away give that “I got something down” thing they do. I jumped up and headed for the door. Cholley Jack our pit bull was already there going bonkers so I just opened the door without knowing and he shot out like a bullet. He’s really large (75#)and a really fast terrier type dog. He saw 3 coyotes in a circle around something in the grass. I knew what it was immediately. CJ blasted through the coyotes and broke them up. They all ran different directions so he sorta ran in circles and didn’t get too close to any of them. Tiny popped up and walked away unscathed, hard to believe. I sat CJ down and told him(he’s young)he needed to s’get them coyotes, kill ‘em. Good boy. He listened and I thought he understood but you never know. The next morning he saw a coyote on the tank dam out the kitchen window and went ape so I let him out. I watched him chase the coyote into some small mesquite trees and the coyote got a stride on him but he narrowed the gap and was right on top of the coyote when they hit some heavy salt cedars. They disappeared into the pasture. Later he shows up and I see him and open the door and it hit me. Yeeoow, what a smell. I immediately turned him back outside and went to the back to get my dog washing gear. He had black you know what all over his left side that was slowly drying. Evidently he caught the coyote and killed it. We had had coyotes come right up next to the house two at a time every day before that. The day after that, no coyotes. I had seen him chase down two coyotes on two occasions before that but he didn’t do anything to them. I think his mind has changed. I don’t see coyotes but every now and then and they hunker down now when they see him. I don’t think it will serve them well anymore. Back to cats though. I have five little 7-8 week old kittens climbing on me right now. We found 2 little toms on the breezeway last year but there evidently was a female from that litter of a really wild mama cat we missed. Well, later we saw her and another tom that looked just like the two we have now. We never go looking for cats, don’t have to, they just show up. We really can’t afford these but think we have them given away to good homes. They’d bite hell out of you 6 weeks ago but are really chilly and fairly hilarious now. Last night when CJ and I went to bed, the one who looks like his daddy ran into the room and up on the bed and camped out next to CJ. He likes to play with him and CJ plays with the kitten. Tiny was my cat who found and adopted me when I lived in Odessa back in ’08. He slept with CJ and I and he and CJ were best friends. Poor CJ, I think he thinks he’s a cat, never known anything else, never been around another dog. We both miss Tiny as does our other tom. I guess we have a new bed mate. So we have at least 3 to give away, all really neat cats and we’ll vaccinate our 2 for feleuk and rabies and distemper and be done with it until snip time comes. Probably what you’re experiencing is the replete nanny state that requires a copy of vet records so they can do what they want to you. We aren’t to that point….yet. I think I can still buy the vaccines including rabies and administer myself, you just don’t have an official record in case of problems but that’s mostly a thing with dogs should they bite someone. Our vet knows we don’t have money to burn and doesn’t charge us a great deal to take care of the situation and knows his small animals pretty well so we’ll take them in at least once for their shots and again for their follow up shots and maybe never again. And if somebody from some organization funded by govt. wants to come jack with us, I have some shots for them too….I wish you good luck and may it work out for the best. I came up against this when we were going to adopt a dog, plenty of pits available but they made you jump through hoops and the shelter we went to had all sorts of follow up rules as well as neutering. I’ll neuter and have neutered a dog with prostate problems but I won’t ask my dog to suffer any indignity I won’t cop to myself. A dog needs to be at least a couple years old before neutering and they won’t go more than several months and keep leaning on you to comply and will finally show up with cops and guns to force you to do so. I just don’t need that. I would have really liked to rescue a dog but they wouldn’t even get anyone to help us when we were looking for one. It was a pitiful thing there, no one wanted to do anything except sit around and talk and not even acknowledge the people coming in to adopt. I wanted to yank about 4 of these fat ass girls out by the hair and kick their butts all the way to the kennels. That reminds me, I never wrote that letter and I need to. Good luck to you and your wife.

          • Hot Rod
            July 23, 2013 at 2:20 am

            Eight…I really appreciate your comment. You definitely made me feel a lot better about this whole thing, and I loved the pit bull, coyote, and cat story. I do value what you would have to say about this and I actually was going to ask you personally about it (would you believe that?) beings I realized you being a rancher kind of guy would know quite a bit about animals.

            So is the Feline Leuk a rather new phenomena, as I said we had cats in the 70’s roaming the country side without any problems. When did you first become aware of the problem and do you think that the deaths were always there and just not diagnosed yet? I do know we had cats die of distemper that weren’t vaccinated, at least that is what the vets told us at the time. Maybe a misdiagnosis if the FIV/FLEUK is true?

            Thanks for the kind reply as always and return to your family all the kind wishes.

          • Eightsouthman
            July 23, 2013 at 3:12 am

            Hot Rod, there may have always been feleuk but I don’t really think so. Then again, I lost my first cat to it in ’73 and it may have just been the fact they knew what to check for. Seems like in the late 70’s it was really rampant and hasn’t slowed down I can tell. I wonder if it wasn’t brought to this country by the military since we went through heartworms with one dog in ’76, a new thing for this country, brought back from Vietnam, thanks assholes. We were raising German Shepherds at the time and managed to jump through all the hoops and save a dog. It’s an expensive, extensive process though and not to be taken lightly. Next, in about 83 I think, we had the last of the Shepherds get sick with something we knew wasn’t heartworms but didn’t know what it was. We had lived near Austin back then during the heartworm thing so we knew what we were doing but our vet hadn’t really seen it personally and definitely didn’t know what was the matter with this dog. My wife and I stopped by one day with him and he was busy but told us he suspected heartworms and we begin to educate him about the same and assured him that wasn’t the problem He was sorta exasperated so he said You have always read too much, go back to my office and see what you can find in my new journal, haven’t even opened it yet. So that’s what I did. I was there reading through the symptoms and found ehrlichiosis, a blood parasite that attacks a dog’s immune system and just gradually kills it. It’s tick borne and transmitted and like heartworms, came back with the military from various nefarious adventures most probably in Asia. It gradually spread from S. Tx. to the rest of the state and beyond. My vet had only heard of it, didn’t know anything about it and had seen no cases to that point. It’s not unlike canine babesiosie, a protozoa in the bloodstream, but is different. It’s carried by the Brown Dog tick and the Lone Star tick and can be given to your dog months after the initial tick appears since it transfers from tick to tick. It also came back from Vietnam most likely since it is replete there. It’s treated with tetracycline and doxycycline. So we find out the symptoms and the cure and they had a blood test you had to send off back then to ascertain if it really was that which we did..and it was. Since both of those drugs are very cheap and won’t hurt you to take if you’re not sick, we started the dog immediately on them and since I was working shift work, we gave him his dosage every six hours come rain or shine. We gave that dog all sorts of supplements too but I think he might have been fighting it for a long time. He eventually succumbed to it much to our dismay. Of course, there’s no escaping it now. We lost a Great Pyrenees pup to it when he was 11 months old so we switched dogs to pit bulls, tough dogs right? Our first pit was a bitch and came down with one of two diseases, both fatal, at 6 months and we had to have her put down. We try another pit and he’s a crazy kind of guy and things rock along for years with he and another pit dog we got after Ace. Roy, the younger dog never succumbed to ehrlichiosis but Ace did when he was a few years old. We were headed to town and he wouldn’t jump in the pickup, up front with us like normal. When I saw him act that way, we immediately said “ehrlichiosis” and just went by the vet and got the cure and proceeded to give it to him and he got well toot sweet. He got it again a couple years later and we did the same and he responded the same. Roy never got it as did none of our other dogs. It’s weird but dogs don’t have to get in a weakened condition to get really sick from it although they become weakened. Probably ten years ago I asked our current vet what problems he saw most in dogs and he without a doubt, more than 9 out of 10 times, ehrlichiosis. Thank you oh great military. I could start naming problems with have with flora and fauna in this country and most of them originate in SE Asia, been brought here via every type of means I suppose. Now we have Asian carp polluting the streams and killing off native species of fish. It goes on and on. I get depressed sometimes just thinking about all the things this country has had foisted on it by international trade and our military. I wish you could have seen Ace and Roy, two wild and crazy guys up for anything. Roy had the greatest jaw strength I’ve seen in any dog. Once latched on, it took two people and two break sticks to get him loose. Both dogs went absolutely ape over kites, just to hear one outside, and they could, every time, they’d go bananas and both could jump high enough if your kite got within 9 feet of the ground, it was toast. I’d go to KMart at the end of every summer season and buy all their kites when they were really cheap on clearance. We’d fly a kite till one or the other, never both at one time, would nab it and then laugh ourselves silly watching the “kill” that kite. The dog in the house would always sound like it was being slaughtered, just couldn’t stand to hear that kite and not be there. I’ve laughed myself silly countless times over the pits we’ve had over the years. Are you up for it? Hell yes, didn’t matter what it was, they’d be ready.

        • July 23, 2013 at 9:25 am

          HR,

          We have three cats (like yours, former strays we took in) who tested positive. We’ve had them for several years and they appear (and act) perfectly normal. Our vet tells us the disease can reduce their lifespan via compromised immune systems, but that if they’re not stressed/well-cared for they can lead an otherwise normal life. It’s not communicable to humans – and the main way it’s spread among cats is through bites.

          • Hot Rod
            July 23, 2013 at 11:49 pm

            Eric thanks for the words of encouragement and its good to know that other people have made the same decision as my wife and I. We’d love to take and keep these kittens but it turns out that my wife and I being Nomads and working most of the time in small confined space that I don’t see how I could personally adopt these loving kittens. I’m like you on this + reading thing for cat disease and have read much research on it as many of the cats proceed to fight and even win the battle with the disease. I hear there are different stages on infection and the last being terminal.

            Sometimes I see those little kittens with the two hands batting at things and figuring out how things work, and I see a bit of humanoid mixed in with rabbit feet and skunk in form minus the tail. They have a way at making a grown man smile and laugh and play like a boy. They are quite aware and have personalities and I think its easy sometimes to underestimate the depth of understanding these animals have so it saddens me when something like this comes along where I might not be able to find people who want them. Usually cat lovers have other cats they have to protect from the disease so it might be hard to place them.

            I’m figuring that like any disease that animals will build up a natural immunity ot these things if real, and nuking everyone as they used to do won’t help establish a healthy immune population against diseases. Fortunately, most people are seeing that the absolute between say a positive test and death doesn’t have to be a given. I think sometimes thing were much more simpler when people didn’t have so much depth into all these antibodies and responses, sometimes the old cat or young cat would die as that was part of life. I can understand rabies as a health threat with domesticated animals so I don’t really think that was so bad, but when you have to innoculate for 5 strains of every possible disease and even then its not guarnteed that a retrovirus strain won’t make it through, well I think maybe we are taxing the immune systems of animals like we do with humans (flu shots). I guess I’m a bit skeptical on it still but I do believe others that have direct and recent experience such as yourself and Eight. I’m also a skeptic of HIV+ causing AIDS, though I wouldn’t inject an infected persons blood in my neither to prove a point. When one studies these crazy things in depth and how they became sensationalized its quite scary that few have had the courage to ask important questions in argument of the connections. I do remember the scare in the 90’s that AIDS was going to be the next black plague, but that never materialized except people of high risk and drug usage, these same things of course causing immune system stress. And it kind of makes me wonder looking back at it all if it wasn’t a scam by the elite to both make money off the gullible while scaring people not to stay celebate (birth control). I just don’t have enough direct knowledge to say no for sure and never will as that is not my speciality, but I have a healthy skepticism about all of it.

            Regards,
            HR

          • DownshiftFast5to1
            July 24, 2013 at 5:22 am

            Hot Rod wrote, “And it kind of makes me wonder looking back at it all if it wasn’t a scam by the elite to both make money off the gullible while scaring people”

            Ya got that right, pardner.

            Reading your guy’s conversation about cats I wonder how many similar things were brought over from foreign lands that infect people the very same way.

            I know of several!

            Anyway, when you guys write about cats all I can think of is this chick I knew who loved her cats as if they were her children… and she had the most perfect breasts… along with a stunning tan… anyway, I digress.

            Also, dang, you guys are totally derailing the thread off topic.
            You each need to drink two shots of takillya each, at a minimum.

            • July 24, 2013 at 9:30 am

              I’ve come to respect and flat out really like cats. Some of them seem to have almost human intelligence – and emotion, too. And of course, their affection must (usually) be earned.

              If you have several (as we do) you’ll see them organize a loose-knit social confederacy; Cat A will particularly like (or not like) Cat B – and either hang out with that cat (or avoid it). They practice free association!

          • Eightsouthman
            July 24, 2013 at 11:04 am

            eric, these 5 kittens that are tearing the house down now have the most unique personalities for 7-8 weeks old I ever saw. One is yellow like his identical dad’s, split egg twins, something I don’t ever remember having. He acts just like one of the them so I’m guessing that’s his daddy. The identical toms have two barely different shade pink noses, the only thing to distinguish them and you sometimes need to see both to determine which is which. This yellow guy has “adopted” Cholley Jack the pit bull. He refuses to not be hard against him when he sleeps and just spent his first full night plastered against him. CJ may think he’s a cat, poor guy, since he doesn’t know any dogs, just cats and just lost his best friend, Tiny the tomcat. I may have killed Tiny’s killer yesterday when I pulled a covering tarp from the pumphouse and there was about a 20″ rattler under it. This kitten acts just like his dad, really aggressive but in a playful way, just peeled him off the bottom side of my leg, yeeooww. He’ll chase you down to retaliate if you get him really fired up and will make a little kitty howl of displeasure when you keep him from getting back at you but at the same time, is very loving and trusting. It’s been a long time since we had kittens and I’d forgotten how funny they can be. One of the little girls found an empty soft drink box and now they’re all playing with it with one inside. Great fun, one in and 4 outside. When they get fired up it looks like pop corn in action.

          • Hot Rod
            July 24, 2013 at 5:56 pm

            Downshift said:

            “Also, dang, you guys are totally derailing the thread off topic.
            You each need to drink two shots of takillya each, at a minimum”

            LOL, I know but I like to try to stich all the random yesterday news with today, with government garbage today, to beautiful words of compuser like Eric’s. Mix it up a bit. For example, yesterday we talked some about working from home. Today we talked about tags and animals that deviated back to cats and disease. And I’ll add that another bonus to breaking free of the office and telcommuting to work or doing your own work is that you’ll personally get less sick with viruses. When one thinks about all the political scumbag and parasites at these places, just ridding your immune system of the big parasites will simulteaneously make your immune system able to respond to minor threats like RNA and DNA opportunist. Haven’t been sick once in the last 6 years since giving up big Ma Bell as a source of income!

            Also Downshift I think you are on to something, hot women are always cat people. And learning how to cope with cats and you’ll learn all the basic social skills of how to treat a lady.

            Ok back to the main message thread…Over and Out!

          • Eightsouthman
            July 24, 2013 at 6:06 pm

            eric, HR, I was doing dishes and picked up these little condiment servers I’ve been feeding the little heathens in. I looked down and they’re all there suddenly, one esp. spoiled on hollered at me. No, not chow time again. Got a carrot and started munching, one wakes up and starts smelling, not yet. Jelly, the one who looks just like his daddy(s) decided last night he would sleep with CJ and he did, all night and so did the biggest one, Hisser, slept against my back. Gonna be tough to give them away. I may have to get some chaps. They all think running up my legs is the thing to do. Pin prick holes but not a colorless sky.

            • July 24, 2013 at 7:45 pm

              They sound like great cats (and most are, if given half a chance).

              I’ll have to post some vids of ours – and the two we recently fostered/found a home for. That was very hard, too – but knowing they went to a good home (indoors only) helped a lot….

          • Eightsouthman
            July 24, 2013 at 7:57 pm

            eric, I’d love to see some vids of them. Cats are strange for sure. Some friends had half a dozen inside cats with one named Fraidy they never saw, just came out at night when they all howled. I stayed with them one night, got up before them(early riser), sitting there in the recliner and a cat shows up, rubs on me and I rubbed him, had a little session there. I told them after I’d been playing with a cat. Which one? I dunno, just a black and white long haired one. OMG they said, that’s Fraidy and he doesn’t come out to see us. Now this cat wasn’t recent, been there for years just like the rest. You just never know.

          • clover
            July 26, 2013 at 8:43 pm

            CloverFunny thing. Why is it people do so much for animals but would do nothing for humans? Rather than be delayed for one second they prefer others to wait for minutes. Tell me why that is? Why would people bend over backwards for cats or other animals and just as soon make life hell for humans?

            • July 26, 2013 at 8:47 pm

              Clover, once again:

              It’s not doing something for (or against) people to expect them to behave courteously.

              No cat has ever Cloverized me by using his vehicle to prevent me from driving faster than he has decided is fast enough.

              I just want to go my way – and am happy to leave you free to go yours. The problem is, you’re not willing to do the same. You insist on trying to force me to go at your pace. To drive the way you think appropriate. To control my life – even though I’ve done nothing to harm you or your property but only because you don’t like what I’m doing.

              See the difference?

              You’re a pusillanimous control freak. Pusillanimous, because you’ve not got the balls to try to force people to do as you demand they do yourself. You hide behind “the law” – and its enforcers.

              You get off on doing violence-at-arms-length; you’re a sexual sadist; a violence voyeur.

              People like me despise people like you. But we only want to be free of you; to have nothing to do with you.

              You, on the other hand, are like a lamprey or a tapeworm. You cannot exist without us. You exist to feed off us.

              Well, Clover: Der Tag Kommt.

              Your prey – the people you just won’t fucking leave alone – are very near the end of their patience. Soon – very soon – they’re going to turn ’round on you. I doubt you have even the faintest idea how deeply you’re loathed – and what will happen to you on the day you’re no longer able to hide behind “the law” and its enforcers.

              It won’t be long now.

          • Felix
            July 26, 2013 at 9:56 pm

            “See the difference?”

            LOL! No. Clover is a mental child. Why would you even try adult reason on a Clover?

          • Jean
            July 27, 2013 at 2:45 am

            re: clover @ July 26, 2013 at 8:43 pm

            Answer is simple: Humans are, en masse, a parasite, a disease, a pestilence.
            Animals have no guile, and are guilty of nothing. A dog dislikes you, you KNOW it. A human wants you dead, you won’t know until the knife is in your back. And they will STILL be smiling and patting you on the back.
            Just. Like. YOU.

            Wish I could track IPs….

            • July 27, 2013 at 9:53 am

              Agreed, Jean – with a caveat.

              Not everyone.

              I believe – I know – there are people capable of living in a society based on the NAP (and thus live – and let live). The problem is this state of mind does not come naturally to people (me included). It takes time and effort to reason it all out – to develop the faculties necessary to reason it all out.

              Children are, by nature, Clovers. Emotion-driven, narcissistic, unreasoning. Often, violent.

              It takes years – and patience – to coax them toward that epiphany of reason (and empathy) that leads to acceptance of the NAP. Unfortunately, most children never get there – and become Clovers who beget Clovers.

              Thus, the problem: We might, with effort, found a society – a community – in which every adult understands and agrees to the NAP. But – here it comes – what about the children?

              Not everyone will be a successful parent. And it’s not necessarily the parents’ fault when a child becomes a Clover – or a Stalin. It happens. It will happen.

              And thence begins the cycle anew.

          • clover
            July 27, 2013 at 1:55 pm

            CloverEric, You say “I just want to go my way – and am happy to leave you free to go yours. The problem is, you’re not willing to do the same. You insist on trying to force me to go at your pace. To drive the way you think appropriate. To control my life – even though I’ve done nothing to harm you or your property but only because you don’t like what I’m doing. ”
            Clover
            It sounds to me like you are telling others that they need to follow your rules and follow your pace. Is it because you are a libertarian others need to follow you? Sounds ironic to me. Is libertarianism all about yourself and controlling others? Tell me how that is different than what you say that clovers do to you? I believe in and expect others to be courteous when driving but I have never heard that any libertarian did such a thing. The courteous driving I ever hear from libertarians mouths is to tell others to be courteous and get the hell out of your way! You want others to move behind a slow moving semi so you are not delayed for a second. Libertarianism from what I have see is a selfish brat all about yourself.

            • July 27, 2013 at 4:01 pm

              You’re truly an imbecile, Clover.

              Because only an imbecile would equate Driver A passing Driver B – and expecting Driver B to not attempt to thwart the pass, or shriek that the cops should punish the passing driver – with attempting to “control” Driver B.

      • DownshiftFast5to1
        July 23, 2013 at 4:04 am

        When I read this article I thought about the facial recognition angle too.
        Have you seen the makeup and hairstyles that can be used to avoid facial recognition detection?
        Here’s some that actually look half-way cool in a KISS sort of way:

        http://cvdazzle.com/

        I would like to try them out but I’m not sure I will.
        Maybe these will be cheap by then?:

        Anti-Photography Glasses Prevent Facial Recognition from Doing Its Thing

        http://petapixel.com/2013/01/29/anti-photography-glasses-prevent-facial-recognition-from-doing-its-thing/

        On a cold day awhile back I saw a guy on a motorcycle who was wearing a half-hockey mask or something. The mask was attached to a stocking cap somehow. It looked bad-assed, that’s for sure.

        I wish there were a mini-strobe light or something a person could place on their dashboard to shield the occupants from those cameras. Glitter on the glass? A laser plugged into the glass? Idk.

        Do you suppose it’s a good idea to put a strip of paper over the VIN number on your dashboard? I imagine they can see those too.

        Will you actually toss your license plates in the woods, or will you shove them into a toolbox, or put them behind the drivers seat so you can take them out if and when you get pulled over?
        Is this just a one day event, or is it a forever thing?

        I wonder what the fine is for not having plates?
        Will they tow my car?

        Seems to me there should be a sticky for this webpage at the top of the ‘Home’ page so people might take note over the course of the year.
        Maybe even come up with some kind of fancy colorful banner to turn into a button to click, and share on social media?

        I’m reminded of the early days of The Free State Project for some reason. I doubt a signup sheet would be a good idea. But it would probably encourage others who might not do so because they’d feel they were singular.

        It sure seems like a tiny step, but at the same time it’s huge. More for some, less for others.

        I don’t know, just thinking out loud here.

        I’ll probably do it.

        • Eightsouthman
          July 23, 2013 at 4:38 am

          Downshift, I saw the dazzle stuff probably a decade ago, fairly old stuff but the glasses really look like a pain and can you imagine trying to look around the lights although I see they’re not directly in your vision but around the periphery. I’ve thought about wearing my cold gear face mask since it covers everything below your eyes. But that would be a drag so maybe something similar but really light and cool to wear? I actually wondered how much crap I’d take if I just had one of the Klan style hoods and face mask. Maybe I should just make a veil out of a bed sheet and be done with it….or just go back to wearing a bandana….all the time. Or paint up camo every day. No law against wearing camo I know of.

        • Hot Rod
          July 25, 2013 at 12:46 am

          Sure be a shame if I and everyone else kept getting a ton load of mud all over our license plate? I hear off roading is becoming a particular popular sport?

          Also:
          “African Buffaloes are notorious among big game hunters as very dangerous animals, with wounded animals reported to ambush and attack pursuers.[18]” from wiki.

          I always like revenge movies because they are based on the same premise. A guy just minding his business gets used as a prey, and do to skill and intelligence turns the predator into prey. This happens when a man has nothing left to lose like says someone taking his wife, money, kids, or existence. The government however knows how to keep you locked into those just enough that you are never able to buck and revolt, because they literally will come and lock up and kill your family and take your stuff.

          It would be nice if we could be the wild type african buffalo above, but as one sees that it would have taken a constant awareness and fight attitude from the beginning. We would’ve had to be wild and untamed from the start, and we’d most likely have a government afraid of us. I guess my cousins were the real Dukes of Hazard back in the 60’s. Would pull up to a cop with their hot rod and rev the engine up right in front of them, burn rubber and set off a chase. They were always in jail and the small town always smiling and laughing about the stunts they pulled, even the officer of the law liked Bobby from what I hear. But peace officers were a different breed back then as compared to the militant types today, I’d doubt that would fly today as they’d administer the mind altering drugs and straigh jacket and water board, bean baggie, baton beat silly anyone who even looks at them cross eyed.

          Most people accept the limits set by average actions, they also accept insanity and torture based on how unusual it is. Given this its hard to imagine that an Asian buffalo will ever be morphed back to the African buffalo, or a horse into a Zebra. Those animals were always uncooperative from the start in my opinion. People gave up on that breed before they even started to try to domesticate them. They show a consistency of being unpredicatble, we on the other hand mostly show consistency and predictability.

          I’d argue that is why those of us who want freedom will have to be anonymous amongst the crowd of predictability and not be purposefully rebellious because its already too late we are the later case where they can single out the one buffallo that doesn’t like being penned in. Let those who want freedom come here an share ideas how to be free, and be the buffalo that quietly sneaks out while the rest of the herd is eating at the troughs. If others emulate or get smart then great. If not then oh well.

      • MoT
        July 23, 2013 at 8:50 pm

        When I last went in, many years ago, to “renew” my Texas resident/slave/auto “papers”, I saw they had fingerprint ID machines. I asked the surly drone behind the counter why the need for such devices as they were never necessary before in days of yore, and was told they’d help identify my body in case of an accident! Wasn’t that the excuse for having the god-damn thing in the first place, so they said years earlier, because it purportedly has my “picture” on it? And if my body is burned beyond recognition, and those fingerprints go up in smoke with it, then how in the hell do they ID the body based on said fingerprints, eh? Damn them all to hell.

        • Jean
          July 25, 2013 at 12:02 pm

          Hell is too kind.
          We need to damage them where it hurts, and it may already be too late.

          Need to DO SOMETHING. And there’s no way to wake up a Clover – that’s part of the point behind the Matrix (film 1). Most minds don’t WANT to wake up.
          It is Also the point behind Don Quixote, BTW. So it’s not a new issue.

          Those of us who ARE intelligent, cannot FORCE intelligence on the imbecile mob. (And mobs are worse than individuals, too.)
          You cannot enlighten a mind by force. You cannot FORCE someone to wake up to the Matrix.

          But you can make the sleepers go away…

          Not to worry, they grow back. Rabbit-breeding vs. Wolf-breeding: Low investment / high numbers (keep the genes alive) vs. High investment / low progeny count (Teach the young how to survive and how to improve their lot, work in a group, etc.)

          We KNOW which is winning, And why. We just refuse to acknowledge the sounds of silence.

          I cannot personally fault those who do this for moral reasons, but I DO believe it is unwise to deny that, by making society idiot-proof, we make the race weaker; that only by enforcing Darwin’s law mercilessly can we get strong again. Religion & Philosophy again (and religion will cover it all for Cloverites.)

    • clover
      July 26, 2013 at 3:25 am

      I love it. I like anything that makes Eric mad. Well I guess everything makes Eric mad. He gets mad at any other driver on the roadway, any police, any old lady, any old guy, the slow, the fast, the tailgater, the red light, the stop sign, the truck, the truck with trailer and it goes on and on and on and on with what makes Eric mad. Now he just added license plates. I forgot a lot of things he is mad at. Yes the turbo on a car, the fuel injection, the 4 cyl car. I could go all day with what Eric is mad at. I guess we just need to find the one thing that Eric is not mad at.

    • clover
      July 26, 2013 at 8:25 pm

      CloverI love it. I like anything that makes Eric mad. Well I guess everything makes Eric mad. He gets mad at any other driver on the roadway, any police, any old lady, any old guy, the slow, the fast, the tailgater, the red light, the stop sign, the truck, the truck with trailer and it goes on and on and on and on with what makes Eric mad. Now he just added license plates. I forgot a lot of things he is mad at. Yes the turbo on a car, the fuel injection, the 4 cyl car. I could go all day with what Eric is mad at. I guess we just need to find the one thing that Eric is not mad at.

      • July 26, 2013 at 8:44 pm

        That’s easy, Clover:

        I’m not mad about (at) people who respect other people’s liberty.

        I’m not mad about the idea of leaving people alone who’ve caused no harm to other people (or their property).

        I’m not mad about the idea of live – and let live.

        I’m not mad about free association. About rejecting the use of violence to get others to do what you’d like them to do.

        Of course, with you it’s the opposite. All the above ideas (and values) infuriate you.

        • clover
          July 27, 2013 at 5:03 pm

          CloverEric I have no problem with you having your liberty as you call it. Where we disagree is when your liberty causes the probability of killing others or causing others property damage 100s or thousands of times more than if you followed the laws that we now have. When your liberty endangers others beyond the norm then that is when it must be stopped. Driving is like shooting a high powered gun at someone a mile and a half away. Very small chance of injuring or killing others. You think it is fine to point a high powered gun at someone a half a mile away and start shooting. It is fine you say as long as you do not hit them. That is where I disagree. I prefer to have my odds of getting hit from a mile and a half away but you are not honoring my liberty of any kind of safety. You do not give a rats ass about someone’s liberties other than your libertarian self centered self.

          • DownshiftFast5to1
            July 27, 2013 at 6:05 pm

            Clover wrote, “When your liberty endangers others beyond the norm then that is when it must be stopped.”

            Ain’t that the way all covers see things?

            “The norm” plus, the degree of “probability” equals, ‘Some animals are more equal than others’.

            No doubt that equation is also why clovers the world over support tyranny.

            I wonder why the clovers of the world are not demanding a 5 m.p.h. nationwide speedlimit.

          • clover
            July 27, 2013 at 6:23 pm

            CloverI tell you what DownshiftFast5to1. Take a revolver and put bullets in all but one cylinder. Spin it and take your libertarian chance.

            • July 27, 2013 at 6:38 pm

              Once again, Clover – violence.

              That’s the only language you know. Of course, you’re too much of a physical coward to confront anyone in real life. You’re too afraid to even use your real name. You hide behind “Clover” – and of course, the ballot box.

              Pathetic.

              I can’t wait for the day when your kind gets its just deserts.

              PS: Downshift playing RR with himself causes no harm to others.

              So, his actions would be in accordance with Libertarianism and the NAP.

              Unlike yours – which involve use of force – the commission of violence – against others.

              The distinction is so clear-cut, so obvious – to just about everyone except you.

              Libertarians believe in leaving others alone unless they’ve caused a provable harm by those others.

              Clovers believe in never leaving anyone alone – even when they’ve done absolutely nothing to cause harm to anyone.

          • July 27, 2013 at 6:34 pm

            Define the “probability” – as it applies to a specific individual.

            I’ll answer for you: You can’t define it.

            Instead, you support punishment based on generalities and subjectives. No, you go beyond even that – to punishing them based on hypotheticals.

            For instance, your approach to what you style “drunk driving.” I enclose the term within quotation marks because what you object to is not the individual person’s actual driving – either good or bad. All that matters to you is a generalized and highly subjective BAC standard – irrespective of the individual’s driving.

            It does not matter to you that a given person’s driving can’t be faulted. All that matters – to you – is that the person “blew” a certain BAC. That – whatever the government decrees it to be – is synonymous with “drunk” driving. When it was .10 a person who blew a .08 BAC wasn’t (legally) “drunk.” Now, they are. Tomorrow, it’ll be .06 or maybe .04 BAC.

            Perhaps “zero tolerance.”

            It’s imbecilic – because it’s grossly unfair, because it presumes everyone is affected by alcohol equally and that everyone begins with an equal skill set/experience level and judgment. Which is so obviously false it ought to be obvious even to a creature such as yourself.

            I hardly drink, but just to make a point:

            Because I begin with a higher skill level and physical abilities, I’m still a better driver – in terms of my ability to control a car, especially in an emergency situation – after two or three drinks than my mother-in-law is when sober. I’d probably have to drink six beers in an hour to reach a level of “impairment” that would place me on an equal footing with her in terms of our driving.

            I make the point that individuals vary; that some people can drive quite competently with currently illegal BAC levels – while other people are marginal when sober and very obviously impaired – in terms of their actual driving – when they have even a little alcohol (within legal limits) in their system.

            But what do you focus on, with your retard-skewed vision? The BAC. Nothing else matters.

            Or, “speeding.”

            This word means nothing more than driving faster than a number on a sign. To you, the most inept, slow-reacting/addled driver is no problem – provided he is not exceeding the speed limit. But a person who “speeds” deserves to be punished – irrespective of his driving – because (in your feeble mind) “speeding” is synonymous with dangerous driving. It doesn’t matter what the speed limit is; drive faster and – ipso facto – you are a dangerous driver.

            Give me a figure, Clover – a mathematically supportable figure – as regards the “probability” that my daily passing of Clovers constitutes a threat to anyone. I want a number, Clover. One that applies to me, specifically – and which proves my actions constitute a danger to others.

            No?

            Just your feelings, eh? Your dislike of the fact that I ignored “the law” – and passed you over a double yellow at a speed higher than the posted maximum.

            That’s what it comes down to, Clover.

            My standard, in contrast, is objective. If I do something – whatever it might be – and my actions cause harm to someone else or their property, then there can be no debate that my actions were wrong. And, that I should be held accountable and responsible.

            But if not, then piss off you god-damned control freak poltroon. You and your ilk have ruined this country – and are in the process of turning it into a Stalinist gulag. So that you can feel “safe.” Because you cheer when other people’s liberties are trampled on the basis of “someone might.”

            You’re too stupid to even realize how despicable you are; and that you’re not exempt from the tyranny you’ve helped create.

            One day, it will consume you, too.

            And you’ll ask: But why? I’m a good person and obey the law…

          • Eightsouthman
            July 27, 2013 at 7:03 pm

            DS, don’t give him ideas(you’d have to). He’ll see you that reduction in pay and raise you another 2 mph less. See, your time isn’t your own, just go ask the DMV, tax office, DL office, etc. etc. So in effect everyone of us work for the govt. at the point of a gun. We desperately need the “king’s” law like Rev told us about. At least they don’t seem to make it up as they go along. Go to court for one charge like Manning and put up such a good defense they change charges at the end and lean on everybody still in the military to lie and change their years old testimony. Military=Ultimate Clovers. We all play Las Vega odds every day with the military. Something goes agly on one of those planes and it’s hit the eject button and be damned who gets to eat that thing on the ground. Two drones in just the last month in Fl. alone and two F-35’s in Florida alone this year with one F-35 and one drone falling on busy highways.

          • Hot Rod
            July 27, 2013 at 9:46 pm

            “When your liberty endangers others beyond the norm then that is when it must be stopped. ”

            We’ve got another norm being sanity guy again. We agree that however that liberty shouldn’t infringe upon other people’s right to property, person, or liberty. Pre-crime or statical probability of likelihood though is not a a reason to strip persons of their natural rights. You know that saying that you have heard your whole life “Freedom isn’t free?” that government god lover’s admonish the war administration for actively creating destruction in other countries as if that gave me my freedom? Well the saying is correct but the application by libcons and necons is totally wrong. You see all freedom can be misued by evil people, everything you can think of can be used for either good (creation) or bad (destruction). Allowing the people the freedom to use all resources without precodemning them before hand is an act of God himself that gave us free will, the alternative is another offshoot of Napoleonic law mixed with Minority Report Tyranny is the worst of all human abuse. In fact is demonic to push the boot on the face of humanity that has commited no crime in the eyes of God.

            With freedom comes the cost that some people are going to do evil things, that is why freedom is not free BTW. But to not give people the right to express themselves and be responsible in free choice is a greater crime in the eyes of God who created a world of choice. The question you never pondered is that most people have the commonsense not to shoot a bullet in open range without a land/rock backdrop, and most people really do take serious their commandments to love their neighbor. For the ones that don’t self bridle, then you are talking crime against people if property, person, or rights have been trampled. Again nobody argues that freedom comes at a cost (nothing to do with military). The question that I have to depend on my neighbor to not discharge his gun in an apartment complex seems like a cost of freedom to me, and surprisingly I’ve lived in a few apartments and nobody ever felt inclined to do that. For those that do then other men will take action, possibly law enforcement and possibly the neighbors themselves.

            And I’d have to say that your type severely underestimates individual responsiblity. I think the answer to why is because you are a very dark man inside, your soul is literally plagued with thoughts of destroying others (demon possesed). You are possessed with evil thoughts and you project your worldeview on everyone else. You need spirtual help because you are very dangerous person and full of rage and evil inside. The first step is to love your maker, the second is to love your fellow neighbor and to trust both of them. The next is to clean your own house and head of evil destructive thoughts. And government is a false god and will not stop you from commiting evil, if you think that honoring a false god will redeem what is inside of you it will not.

            Driving is like shooting a high powered gun at someone a mile and a half away. Very small chance of injuring or killing others. You think it is fine to point a high powered gun at someone a half a mile away and start shooting. “

          • BrentP
            July 27, 2013 at 9:49 pm

            Meanwhile Clover here supports driving in a manner that forces other people to avoid. Clover pulls out into traffic and expects other people to slow down, to brake, to change lanes. When Clover has to change lanes other people have to get out of Clover’s way. That’s the kind of driving Clover defends, the kind of driving Clover finds acceptable.

            Clover thinks nothing of taking these risks not only of being hit by another driver but putting that other driver at risk as well. But what’s even more odd is that Clover suddenly changes when a driver has an elevated BAC level. Now it’s not about the other driver dodging, but the driver with the elevated BAC is wrong. If consistent then it would be accepted by Clover that other people had to dodge the drunk. After all Clover proclaims that we dodge the sober driver who does the same things.

            Perhaps the problem is that Clover thinks the drivers with the elevated BAC won’t be able to avoid drivers like Clover. Clover puts its self at risk by pulling out into traffic and making other moves. Counting on the reactions of other drivers not to be in a crash. Counting on others’ self preservation. The drunk could just end up plowing into Clover.

          • Hot Rod
            July 27, 2013 at 9:53 pm

            “Driving is like shooting a high powered gun at someone a mile and a half away. Very small chance of injuring or killing others. You think it is fine to point a high powered gun at someone a half a mile away and start shooting. “

            Again a self projection and your argument is a straw man. As a matter a fact who thinks of shooitng a high power gun at someone a mile and a half away ? You do that is is who. You are possesed with such thoughts. Please let me know your name and where you live so if I ever bump paths I give you a large radius? I’d say get some help, but you’d think I mean’t from a shrink. You’ve already tried that and it didn’t work so instead you’ve decided to try to redeem your evil by hypocritically judging others.

          • clover
            July 27, 2013 at 11:50 pm

            Hot Rod I have plenty of poor driving examples of libertarians. They are proud of their poor driving. Tailgating, what is that they say? They have the excuse because someone made them slow down to only 15 mph over the limit so tailgating is OK. Clover

            Brent’s avoidance videos he talks about? He rides in someone’s blind spot for a significant amount of time and blames the other driver when he moves over making Brent move. Actually he is the one who stands on his horn when he does his poor driving making others get the hell out of his way. Or then the example of a car entering the highway hundreds of feet in front of Brent. Brent does not take his foot off the gas for a second or two to match speeds, he goes full speed ahead, when he reaches the other car he stands on his horn and slams on the brakes. Brent is not smart enough that you do not have the liberty to drive down the road, put your cruise on and put your feet on the dash. There are millions of other drivers out there and they do not have to get the hell out of the way for the self centered libertarians just because the libertarians feel they have the right to break laws and others are to move the hell out of their way.

            Then the passing in a double yellow area. Eric is so good of a driver laws like that do not apply. Make the other driver fly off the road if they are driving head on into each other.

            Eric is such a good driver he can drive dangerously and get by with it he says. Maybe the next time he does it the revolver will have a bullet in the wrong cylinder and he will kill someone. He says he is so much better driver than I am but ask him who is accident free? Not him. Accidents to him are not because he would cause it. It is the road, the weather or whatever. It is not because he was driving poorly.

            Has anyone asked him why he has to pass in a double yellow or drive dangerously in other ways? Is he a brain surgeon in a hurry to get to surgery? No. He just feels like endangering others for the heck of it. Eric if you need to drive dangerously, go find a race track you can rent out for yourself and go for it.

            • July 29, 2013 at 10:09 am

              Clover writes:

              “Has anyone asked him why he has to pass in a double yellow or drive dangerously in other ways?”

              The proper question, Clover, is:

              Why should I not pass a slower-moving vehicle when I’m able to do so without causing harm to anyone?

              You’ll say, “because it’s against the law!”

              But that is neither here nor there. If “the law” demanded you do jumping jacks every morning, would you obey? Would you insist that others obey, too?

              In my area – and in the country, generally – there are fewer and fewer legal passing zones. They’re painting over the broken yellow with double yellow. Formerly legal passing zones are now illegal passing zones.

              What’s changed?

              Just “the law.”

              The same law that makes it (legally) unsafe to execute a passing maneuver by demanding that the passing car never exceed the speed limit.

              A competent driver who ignores both idiocies – who can see there is ample margin of distance and sight lines and who accelerates sufficiently (and irrespective of the speed limit) to get around the car and back into his lane – can pass without causing any harm to anyone, or even plausibly threatening to.

              But, this infuriates you.

              There is a long, straight stretch of road – approximately 1 mile, with no visual obstructions – that I travel almost every day. And almost every day, I pass a Clover doing barely (or slightly less than) the preposterous posted limit of 55 MPH. Often, the driver being passed expresses outrage that I would dare to do such a thing. I get lights flashed at me, horns honked. Sometimes, the Clover will try to prevent me from passing by increasing his speed – in some case, to more than 80 MPH.

              Why? Why is it any skin off their nose that I want to get past them? Have I in any way harmed them by passing them? I never tailgate, I don’t make an issue of it. I just – quickly – pull my car into the other lane, accelerate rapidly and, once I’m a couple of car lengths ahead, ease back into the travel lane.

              What is the problem, Clover?

              What is your problem?

          • BrentP
            July 28, 2013 at 12:01 am

            Clover, I know why you never link the videos.
            Because you’re a liar.

          • DownshiftFast5to1
            July 28, 2013 at 2:41 am

            Hey, Eightsouthman, do you think they’d pick up on that idea like ‘they’ did with taxing sunlight, as happened in Spain recently?

            If ‘they’ came out with a 5 M.P.H. national speed limit that would soo backfire on them.

            Did you notice how the clover didn’t even touch that idea?

            Why, you’d think a clover would be all over such an idea. Just think of all the lives it would appear to save.
            I’m shocked they don’t see how that would nearly eliminate every danger on the roadway, especially from drunk drivers.

            Think of all the money they could save by not having drunk driving checkpoints and just enforce a national 5 M.P.H. speed limit!

            It’s clear though, to paraphrase Walter Williams: clover does not have the courage to save all of those lives by making the speed limit 5 or 10 miles per hour, it’s simply not worth the inconvenience.

            Dupes for the State

            “Needless to say — or almost so — there are many activities we engage in that either cause harm to others or have the potential for doing so, but we don’t ban all of these activities.”…

            http://www.lewrockwell.com/2012/04/walter-e-williams/dupes-for-the-state/

            It’s odd how the clovers of the world decide which activities to ban, and which they do not.
            It’s simply a matter of what makes them feel the bestest.

          • Eightsouthman
            July 28, 2013 at 3:52 am

            DownShift, I see nothing amazing about it at all. If someone eminently qualified had reams and reams of empirical data to support what might even be a no-brainer, something most logical people wouldn’t even argue with after considering the evidence, the clovers would reject outright if it didn’t support what the MSM said the “state” said on the same subject. It’s easy to see what they support, just exactly what the state tells them to support. I’ve watched it forever, there to give a reach-around to any statist they think might get them a few brownie points. Why do you think the knees of their pants wear out first? Logic? Logic? Don’t make me laugh.

          • clover
            July 28, 2013 at 3:03 pm

            Funny Eightsouthman. You say people like me only believe what the government tells us? Is the government in control over all studies, over the internet, over what other countries are doing? Is the government wrong in saying that drunks cause a lot of accidents? Is the government wrong in saying tailgating is a bad thing and causes accidents? Is the government wrong in saying that weaving through traffic at a high rate of speed is dangerous to others? Tell me Eightsouthman what is it that the government tells me that is a flat out lie and thus I back it up? You must have dozens of examples if it is so high on your list to bring up!Clover

          • BrentP
            July 28, 2013 at 3:11 pm

            Clover, when the 55mph NMSL went into force lane discipline broke down. The left lane blockers were everywhere. When confronted with this problem Joan Claybrook said it was safer that faster traffic now had to slow to weave through. So your government says that weaving through traffic at a speed slower than one would just normally pass at is safer.

          • dom
            July 28, 2013 at 3:16 pm

            *YAWN*

            highway

          • Eightsouthman
            July 28, 2013 at 5:17 pm

            Clover……yes

          • Eightsouthman
            July 28, 2013 at 5:33 pm

            dom, considered Live Bookmarks lately? Clover, you say “You say people like me only believe what the government tells us?” That is a declarative statement, not a question.

          • clover
            July 28, 2013 at 8:16 pm

            BrentP, of the hundreds of hours of videos you have taken why have you not come up with dozens of lane blocking videos? When is the last time you have videoed a car driving in the left lane at the speed limit or below and blocking traffic other than during a heavy rush hour with cars in front of it? You are like Seinfeld. A lot of talk about nothing factual. I forgot. Dom had such a video. He failed to tell us though that it was videoed 100 yards from an intersection after I looked it up on the map. He just happened to leave that detail out. Most road rage drivers leave out the facts like Dom does. Clover

            You a are normal libertarian. You always follow the laws that you want to and always come up with an excuse to break most of them because there is another car on the road. Tell me BrentP, where is it written that it is fine to break laws and drive dangerously just because you do not like how someone else is driving or driving 2 mph too slow for you? When you alter your driving in a negative way because of cars around you it is a sign of road rage. We do not want road rage drivers on our roadways.

            • July 29, 2013 at 9:49 am

              Clover,

              It’s impossible to have a discussion with you because you will not accept the plain meaning of words as the basis for communication.

              What is a “drunk” driver?

              It is someone who has consumed a quantity of alcohol sufficient to impair his ability to operate a motor vehicle such that he is a danger to himself and others.

              But you define it differently.

              To you, “drunk” is synonymous with whatever BAC level the government throws out. Right now, “drunk” equals .08 BAC. Tomorrow, it may be .04 BAC.

              A few years ago, it was .10 BAC.

              As with “speeding,” the BAC way of defining “drunk” driving is arbitrary.

              A given BAC level only tells us what the concentration of alcohol is in the person’s bloodstream. It does not tell us whether he is meaningfully impaired in terms of his ability to control his car. Just as driving faster than a given speed limit does not necessarily mean the person is driving in a dangerous or unsafe manner.

              None of the foregoing ought to be contentious because it is simple logic based on simple facts.

              And just as it ought to be an affirmative defense against a speeding charge that there was no other evidence of unsafe/dangerous driving, so also the government ought to be compelled to provide proof that a person charged with “drunk” driving was actually driving in such a way as to indicate his judgment/abilities were meaningfully impaired (e.g., he was wandering across the double yellow).

              To convict – to punish – people merely because they are found to have “x” (arbitrary and shifting with the political winds) BAC is exactly like mulcting people for driving faster than an arbitrary and shifting with the political winds speed limit.

              Yesterday, 55 – and 64 is “speeding.” Today, 70 – and 64 is perfectly within the law.

              Just so with BAC thresholds. Only soon – if you and your fellow Clovers have their way – it’ll be “zero tolerance.” People will be tossed in jail for having any alcohol in their system at all.

          • k
            July 29, 2013 at 2:12 am

            ….very small chance of hurting or killing others with a car?? Only about 2013 killed in TN highways from cars in 2012 alone and another nearly 2025 in GA highways by cars in 2013 alone…. The car is certainly the most dangerous thing you own and use… by far.

          • BrentP
            July 29, 2013 at 3:39 am

            I see you’re still lying Clover.

            I told you, LLBing isn’t worth my time to edit it is so common. It can be viewed in numerous videos I have if one bothers to look away from the main subject. However I didn’t bring up LLBing at all. You brought up weaving and blathered about what the government would say about it. You were wrong, because the only official statement I know of is that Joan Claybrook quote which I learned of from the book “American Autobahn” by Mark Rask. You should read it.

          • July 29, 2013 at 10:58 am

            Hot Rod I have plenty of poor driving examples of libertarians. They are proud of their poor driving. Tailgating, what is that they say? They have the excuse because someone made them slow down to only 15 mph over the limit so tailgating is OK.

            There are many more state worshiping bootlicker pricks like you on the road, than there are libertarians. So it is more likely that you are a bigger threat to my safety on the road than they are.

            • July 29, 2013 at 12:08 pm

              “tailgating, what is that they say? They have the excuse because someone made them slow down to only 15 mph over the limit so tailgating is OK.”

              Clover has tried to prop up this particular straw man on countless prior occasions.

              But I know of no Libertarian who has ever defended tailgating.

              Libertarians will argue that passing a slower-moving car is perfectly acceptable – – assuming a competent driver exercising good judgment, etc.

              That’s an entirely different thing, of course. But Clover likes to package-deal – and to conflate objective wrongs (e.g., tailgating) with actions that harm no one (e.g., passing or “speeding”) but which he has a personal control-freak problem with.

              Clover may, at some level, even know how full of shit he is.

              But, I rather doubt it.

              He is the real deal.

              A true imbecile.

          • Eightsouthman
            July 29, 2013 at 11:00 am

            Ever wondered why nearly every fatal wreck the cops claim “we suspect alcohol may be involved”? They get paid to say that, plain and simple. When the cops themselves are involved in a wreck and they are plainly drunk, often their being “under the influence” is never mentioned, investigated or anything else. It’s rare to see a fatality where they don’t at least mention the “possibility” of drugs or alcohol. I had a friend who went to the liquor store Fri. evening and was returning home. He got into a wreck with some guy pulling out in front of him he proceeded to hit since he couldn’t stop. When the troopers got there his pickup had alcohol everywhere from a broken wine bottle so they wrote him up and jailed him for DWI. Sweet deal for them since they get paid for every DWI they write. Too bad for him. He rightly pointed out the top of the bottle of wine was still intact, complete with the seal. Made them no difference. Lying sacks of shit. Another friend leave a party late one night, realizes he doesn’t really want to drive in his condition so he pulls off the road and drives across a field, parks and sleeps it off. Next morning, a trooper comes across the same field, pulls him out of his pickup and charges him DWI. Never mind the fact it’s several hours later, he’s no longer under the influence and he should have gotten an “atta boy” for doing what he did.

            • July 29, 2013 at 12:02 pm

              Yup – and it’s even worse than all that.

              A drunk pedestrian stumbles into the street – into the path of a car – and is killed.

              It is listed in the stats as an alcohol-related driving fatality.

          • DownshiftFast5to1
            July 29, 2013 at 1:01 pm

            Clovers, and most Americans, assume that laws and rules are one and the same.

            They are not.

            However; they don’t let that stop them.

            After reading the conversations with clover here at EPA I’m beginning to see how the clovers of the world (and most Americans) have a clouded understanding of the way things are.

            Things are even more clear to me after reading this bit:

            A Nation of Rules

            The United States, once a “nation of laws,” has become a “nation of rules.”

            http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/07/william-l-anderson/the-us-justice-system/

          • BrentP
            July 29, 2013 at 5:07 pm

            Ever notice that Clover here calls a given following distance “tailgating” and then when someone pulls out into traffic with that same or less distance Clover calls this “400 feet”?

            Of course that may just be the trolling but I figure like most people they have a social distortion of distance.

            Clover is the kind of driver that changes lanes five feet in front of someone and then complains about being tailgated.

        • Eightsouthman
          July 28, 2013 at 7:46 pm

          dom, far out, thanks. I had never seen that page, stupid me.

          • dom
            July 28, 2013 at 9:35 pm

            No problem. I was thinking you were talking about something different, so put it on the back burner to think about later. Lately I haven’t been doing as good a job maintaining the site. My wife and kid have been in Japan for summer. It’s amazing how much time everyday activities around the house take. They’ll be back this week, so I’ll have more time to spend on the site again.

          • DownshiftFast5to1
            July 28, 2013 at 11:24 pm

            Oo yeah, bachelor life is kind of rough in some ways when you’re not used to it.

          • dom
            July 29, 2013 at 12:42 am

            “bachelor life is kind of rough in some ways when you’re not used to it.” NO DOUBT

            Everything we have is geared toward the whole family being here. The day-to-day stuff really takes a lot of time. Hardest thing by far has been taking care of our three dogs! On a bright note, I finally got my hog back together this weekend. It’s been on the rack for almost a year now.

          • Eightsouthman
            July 29, 2013 at 12:46 am

            dom, I was speaking of using RSS feed for Live Bookmarks but was unaware there was a sign up page for email. I had seen all the RSS feeds before but no email sign-up. Never mind. Well, I guess you been having all those wild and crazy parties and now you’ll have to face the music. Gee, babe, I have no idea where those panties came from, honest. I DID have to leave town one week-end and let Eric(throw him under the bus cause she likes him) have the key. Purple stain in the carpet under the bed? Really strange smell to it? Like perfume? I have no idea. ha ha ha ha

          • Eightsouthman
            July 29, 2013 at 12:59 am

            dom, and here I was imagining you riding to all the clubs you wouldn’t normally go and being the life of the party. Now you speak of dogs and the bike not running. What in hell? Trying to turn into me in your later life? Hopefully you have a Looong way to go on that one. Last time the wife went on an extended vaca I had to feed everything on the place(cattle, dogs, cats, hogs)feed myself, clean house, wash clothes and seem like lots more than normal. I’d have to just take time to go to town and get a refill on the keg. A friend who’d just changed vehicles and met me on the highway said “I saw you on the road but you didn’t see me(didn’t wave till he’d gone by) I saw you and Buck but didn’t recognize the guy riding shotgun(keg). You were hauling ass like you were on a mission(I was, beer)”.

        • Eightsouthman
          July 29, 2013 at 1:46 pm

          Downshift, since Anderson begins with a glaring inaccuracy I wonder if there aren’t more. Federal law doesn’t prohibit felons from possession ammo. I kept countless cases of ammo stacked just where they’d been when the BATFE came and went. When I mentioned it to a gaggle of lawyers afterward they all said “They left it because they can’t take it”. Judging by the amount they left there’s no amount you can’t possess I suppose. Since I knew they’d eventually be coming back, just like a fisherman goes to his favorite honey hole, I left them all right where they had been. Of course the first thing to happen was for the offending LEO’s on the second raid to say I couldn’t have that ammo. I told them to call the BATFE if they had a problem since I had never touched it since they left it there….end of discussion. A couple disappeared and returned whispering to the others. No mention ever again of ammo. I did find out I can only haul so much of it but I think that probably goes for everyone. I can’t sell ammo but I can buy it and give it away. It’s the “law”. Nobody said it had to make sense. Clover would shit a brick if he saw how much ammo we’ve had in the past since we’re “evil”. It would seem as if we hit a point of diminishing returns long ago on arresting people for bullshit crimes but I guess the judicial/law enforcement system is simply a hammer and everybody appears to be nails. I was in the roofing business at one time, Almost every person I employed was a felon. Why didn’t they bust us all for associating? Clearly against the law. Maybe they needed roofs, extra charges for all offending parties in my book. I employed dozens of satellite tv installers, nearly all felons. I just found out yesterday speaking with my wife that nearly every person she works with is either a felon, a felon on probation as well as their spouses being the same. I meet someone new, a business acquaintance and maybe years down the road I find out they’re felons. Back before the years 2000, most people convicted could later have their files expunged for one law reason or another so they returned to full non-criminal status. In the last decade however that’s changed dramatically. Now you are easily convicted in the court of public opinion since the MSM falls over themselves to publish any scurrilous lie spewed forth by said judicial/LEO POS’s. Even people who beat the charges are often looked at as if they were guilty, never mind there may have never been a legitimate reason to target them. Dirty country this, mighty dirty. I wonder often if the sheeple will ever wise up and come to the same conclusion every time NO! Hell No! We don’t wanna know….until it’s their turn.

    • Sinhbad
      July 27, 2013 at 10:57 pm

      not sure where to post comments, so will just throw it in here… Yeah, I will gladly throw my tag away if you promise to do likewise… that’s exactly what we need: to stand up to these tyrrants! It ‘s got to start somewhere… just waiting for others to get the band rag going… JUST BE SURE to remind us well ahead of time so we can spread the word to others! : )

      • Eightsouthman
        July 28, 2013 at 12:04 am

        Sinhbad, that made me think of back in the early 70’s when truckers went on strike. At the time there were countless independents and no actual unions so coordination was done quite well via newspapers, trade mags, radio and television coverage as well as word of mouth. I’d bet it would be impossible to duplicate that now, at least on a national level but maybe state by state, since the MSM is bought and paid for by corporate Amerikur. Once again, another reason for corporations and their hack men, politicians, to keep coming after the internet. Support EFF everyone, it’s for us, represented by us and has done more for internet freedom, hence perceived or real freedom than any other thing out there. And if you want to help in other ways, they have an HTTPS add-on for many browsers linking you securely to web sites.

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