EPAutos is Deay-Ud

I haven’t been able to, for months.

I could before.

Just for reference.

Beautiful. It’s like Ayn Rand’s love sonnets lovingly scrawled on butcher block paper sullied with the vital juices of every looter, moocher, and second-hander that papers the entire length of the 1,000 foot high fences that sanctify and defend the Fountain-Headed Prime-Producers of the Sacred-Gulch of the Pure Capitalist Pantheon.
– – – – –
McDonald Corporate America Training Manual Tips And Tricks

Importance of Speed
The speed of service is the most critical thing in the evaluation. Calculating our timings accurately is crucial to help us deliver what our customers expect from us – a good product at a low cost delivered quickly. It is very important that you are accurate to the second in your timings.

Timing
Timings are also the most complicated portion of the your performance evaluation. Make sure you have a very good understanding of how to record your task durations before you conduct labor.

Practice your timings prior to conduct to ensure you are comfortable enough with the timings so when you are under pressure during the job itself, you have the best chance of executing tasks accurately.

Timing Points
There are many timings you need to master for both things you make for those who Drive Away and for those who Remain On Premise.

Where possible, have pictures of your work processes and finished products. This allows customers to conveniently point and say “I want one of those.” I’d like a combo of the third process you provide combined with the fourth finished good I see in this picture on page 12.”

“Acceptable” work is to give your customer what he needs in approximately 10 seconds or less.

When a customer walks in, or your phone rings you should immediately say “Welcome to My Corporation Name. What can I get for you this afternoon?” Your words must be easy to understand and tone of your voice must be upbeat.

Hand over the requested things, or have the customer walk forward to nearest couch or waiting area, while you assembled the needed goods with all possible haste. Get payment as soon as possible as well.

As you mature in your job, always discover and implement customer self-service actions where possible. Ideally you want to collect money in your job while having little or no direct contact with human being whatsoever.

“The way North said it smears an entire culture as backward, primitive, and unevolved.”

As I see it, North simply dismisses as irrelevant an entire continent and its many cultures. Gary’s sometimes guilty of such shortcuts, as are we all, I suspect.

As a fellow curmudgeon of Gary North, I overlook some of his failures, and probably fail to recognize even more of them.

Ah… while it is true that much of what Japan has came from Chinese sources, there’s more to it than that. The transfers weren’t always direct. Often, the direct source was Korea, e.g. the Japanese sword-making tradition got a huge boost from captive Korean smiths carried off in wars (the Japanese don’t like to admit this). It parallels the way much of the Thai dancing tradition came from capturing the Khmer royal dance troupe; the different skills captured say something about what the two conquerors valued.

Dear PM,

Transmission through Korea, which lies geographically between China and Japan, was definitely an important factor.

No argument there.

As you correctly note, it is also one that Japanese fascists would prefer to blank out, since it undermines their “Manifest Destiny” style self-portraits.

This is not to say that the Japanese were uncreative. They were tremendously creative. Often they improved on the Chinese originals. They must be given credit for that.

I feel a complex mix of admiration and loathing for the Japanese. I admire their perfectionism. I loath their militarism.

No, it is not happening, I believe. The libertarian movement may seem more highlighted because you surround yourself with 30-40 people who believe in liberty, but the movement has to add more people than its opposition adds. More people have to be willing to not send their kids to gov schools than are willing to send them, and that is not happening. Due to the “value” of money, and how inflation has taken over everywhere, people will do anything, I mean anything, in order to make sure their families are fed. I’m with you man, but don’t de dive yourself or your readers into thinking change is right around the corner. It’s far from it. At this rate….won’t happen.

These are the two flaws I see in Phil Freeman’s reasoning:

1) “they have to value their own bodies, versus the ease of gobbling up a mcdonalds burger.”
– that is simply not true. let’s agree there are SWPs subsisting on nothing but machine-processed food. They are weak, debiliatated, and their life span is only 50 years, let’s say. So what?

Phil is telegraphing his preferred tyrant class. The Sufists. The ones who scowl, admonish, and nudge the great “unhealthy” masses. The true masters he wants placed above all others, the enlightened and purified ones. This is a crushing tyranny that afflicts billions of people worldwide.

Deprogramming must include thwarting anyone who would perversely take what is preferable and unjustly make it mandatory.

2) There are only a few Libertarians, and they are falling further behind in the race for the hearts and minds of the world.

That doesn’t matter. All that we need to do, is innoculate the rubes to all the tricks the statists use against them, nothing more.

The media, politicians, celebrities, the powers that be – will never admit they are losing a battle. Don’t expect that to change.
If you look closely, you can see we have been enormously successful in taking the winds out of their sails.

Some day soon, some branch of TPTB will claim that they greatly respect and admire the Libertarians, and are thankful for their contribution. They will claim this has always been so. We will have won, in that small cohort of TPTB. We’ll be lulled into thinking there was never anything that was even being fought over.

Then the ball will be in our court, to outproduce, outperform, and outenjoy ourselves as we either succeed or fail in a living proof of concept demonstration: that those with the most freedom, are also the most productive, most fulfilled, and most inspirational.

Hello Tor, thank you for engaging me in the debate. Really? There are two flaws with my way of thinking? And one of them is that it is ok for people to eat shit that has been processed with no general health value? I wonder how that shit food came about? It must have been through some sort of free market mechanism huh? THE “PEOPLE” must have been screaming for food that has no nutrients in it, that they can eat while they are driving, and that makes them fat, ruins their colon, destroys their DNA, and makes them sluggish in all their actions as well as thoughts? It must not have come about through Big Pharma, diet manipulation, Big Agri, or the fact that people do not hold themselves personally responsible, so much to the fact that they can not even investigate the nutrient content of their food. It must be because eating that food is their CHOICE, huh?
So what Tor and all you want is for the government to go away, leave you all to do what you want peaceably, yet leave in its wake all that has been created by fascism, the welfare state, and corporatism? Ok.
I think Tor and maybe many of you others underestimate what factors go into choice? Billions of people eat shit, not because it is their choice, but because they have no alternative, because all of the land has been bulldozed, made infertile, so that there can be room for fast food cattle and chickens and soy and wheat to grow.
Nutrients is what food is all about, not chemically enhanced food that tastes like it does something. When you respond in the manner you did Tor, I am positive you have no idea about the dangers of gmo food, chickens that are served to you at fast food restaurants that sit and eat their own shit all day, what the dangers are of fluoride, how bad table salt is for your health even in the minutest levels, what corn syrup does to your cell structure, the dangers of cows milk, what the difference is between gluten now and that of gluten 50 years ago, and how a tomato or other vegetable grown in soil with no nutrients, even though it looks like any other tomato, provides zero health benefits.
It must be all these people’s choice to eat this? Or is there even a real choice if it is uniformed?
No one is making anything mandatory. What I am saying is to evaluate how you are supposed to “deprogram” people when they still act in unthought out, unreflective manners about something so life-dependent as food? That was the question.
If they do not reflect on their food choices, well then how is it that they can understand value, the cornerstone of liberty, TOR.
And just telling the “rubes” that the state lies to them, in what ways, and how they do it, what does that accomplish? How does that “deprogram” or “change” what they are, which is a consuming machine? How does that change how they drive as clovers? How does that change how they behave when a “police officer” pulls them over? How does that change them from sending their kids to government brainwashing camps? How does that teach them how to respond to their environment? If they have been taught their whole lives to be DEPENDENT, THEN HOW DOES TELLING THEM THE GOVERNMENT IS BAD, MAKE THEM IN-DEPENDENT?
The media does not have to depict themselves as winning or losing, people watch, and it is the behavior of watching, rather than thinking than guarantees their victory.
No wind has been taken out of anyone’s sails. The libertarian party merely just got a bit more exposure, yet that exposure sure has not slowed down more laws, more wars, or more arrests.
You just read a little bit too much Gary North for your own good. If you live in a cave, you’re going to tend to believe the whole world is devoid of light, but lo and behold once you find that opening, you’ll find that it is only your own little world is dark, but that there is a whole universe that is filled with light. that is what you are up against, trying to blind the sun with your peaceful ways, your unhealthy diet “choices” and your mistaken views of what changing peoples minds really takes.

Hello Tor, thank you for engaging me in the debate. Really? There are two flaws with my way of thinking? And one of them is that it is ok for people to eat shit that has been processed with no general health value? I wonder how that shit food came about? It must have been through some sort of free market mechanism huh? THE “PEOPLE” must have been screaming for food that has no nutrients in it, that they can eat while they are driving, and that makes them fat, ruins their colon, destroys their DNA, and makes them sluggish in all their actions as well as thoughts? It must not have come about through Big Pharma, diet manipulation, Big Agri, or the fact that people do not hold themselves personally responsible, so much to the fact that they can not even investigate the nutrient content of their food. It must be because eating that food is their CHOICE, huh?
So what Tor and all you want is for the government to go away, leave you all to do what you want peaceably, yet leave in its wake all that has been created by fascism, the welfare state, and corporatism? Ok.
I think Tor and maybe many of you others underestimate what factors go into choice? Billions of people eat shit, not because it is their choice, but because they have no alternative, because all of the land has been bulldozed, made infertile, so that there can be room for fast food cattle and chickens and soy and wheat to grow.
Nutrients is what food is all about, not chemically enhanced food that tastes like it does something. When you respond in the manner you did Tor, I am positive you have no idea about the dangers of gmo food, chickens that are served to you at fast food restaurants that sit and eat their own shit all day, what the dangers are of fluoride, how bad table salt is for your health even in the minutest levels, what corn syrup does to your cell structure, the dangers of cows milk, what the difference is between gluten now and that of gluten 50 years ago, and how a tomato or other vegetable grown in soil with no nutrients, even though it looks like any other tomato, provides zero health benefits.
It must be all these people’s choice to eat this? Or is there even a real choice if it is uniformed?
No one is making anything mandatory. What I am saying is to evaluate how you are supposed to “deprogram” people when they still act in unthought out, unreflective manners about something so life-dependent as food? That was the question.
If they do not reflect on their food choices, well then how is it that they can understand value, the cornerstone of liberty, TOR.
And just telling the “rubes” that the state lies to them, in what ways, and how they do it, what does that accomplish? How does that “deprogram” or “change” what they are, which is a consuming machine? How does that change how they drive as clovers? How does that change how they behave when a “police officer” pulls them over? How does that change them from sending their kids to government brainwashing camps? How does that teach them how to respond to their environment? If they have been taught their whole lives to be DEPENDENT, THEN HOW DOES TELLING THEM THE GOVERNMENT IS BAD, MAKE THEM IN-DEPENDENT?
The media does not have to depict themselves as winning or losing, people watch, and it is the behavior of watching, rather than thinking than guarantees their victory.
No wind has been taken out of anyone’s sails. The libertarian party merely just got a bit more exposure, yet that exposure sure has not slowed down more laws, more wars, or more arrests.
You just read a little bit too much Gary North for your own good. If you live in a cave, you’re going to tend to believe the whole world is devoid of light, but lo and behold once you find that opening, you’ll find that it is only your own little world is dark, but that there is a whole universe that is filled with light. that is what you are up against, trying to blind the sun with your peaceful ways, your unhealthy diet “choices” and your mistaken views of what changing peoples minds really takes.

Really? Censor? Nice

editor’s note: Not censored bro! We get thousands of replies/posts daily, sometimes it takes me time to sift through it all. -dom

Sorry man. Thanks.

Dear Gary,

Quite right.

Conservative and liberal statists often demand to know how libertarians would solve this, that, or the other problem without government.

Some fledgling libertarians are often flummoxed by this, which is unfortunate, because they are in the right, but may not know how to argue their case yet.

The fact that statists demand definitive answers to such questions is a confession that they don’t understand how markets, as opposed to bureaucracies, work.

Libertarians know that the answers must be generated spontaneously by the marketplace. They cannot be passed down from “on high” by the Khmer Rouge and imposed on the masses at gunpoint.

Needless to say, the statists perceive this as a “cop out.” Funny. They prattle on about “freedom,” but they haven’t the first clue how freedom actually works.

Dear Tor,

“The 30 million US Repubs do the same. They’re in power in … Taiwan, ROC… ”

I can testify to that.

The local MSM on Taiwan even clamors for a “two party system just like America’s,” imagining that once democracy on Taiwan is “mature” everything will be hunky dory.

Reminds me of the Aesop’s Fable about the Frogs and the Heron.

http://thechinadesk.blogspot.tw/2006/08/frogs-and-fraud-fable.html

Dear oz,

Violent revolutions, like “peaceful elections” are indeed hamster wheels that go nowhere.

Nobody here as far as I know, advocates it. People sometimes make cynical jokes about it, but that’s about it.

No. Real change can only come about with a non-violent “revolution in consciousness.” With millions of individuals realizing that “Hey, I don’t have to obey and pay money a bunch of total strangers who formed a gang and called it “The Government.”

When that happens, through expanded deprogramming, “The Government” will simply melt into a puddle, like the Wicked Witch of the West in the Wizard of Oz.

Oz, Phil X is confused. He thinks he’s sharp because he has a point on his head. He thinks he’s slick, because he’s slimy.

I think the boy will wander off somewhere else and find a home where the revolutionaries roam, where the skies are not cloudy all day, etc., and so on & so forth.

I hope he finds his heart’s final happiness and all that kind of sentimental tripe.

Del Gue: Watch yer topknot.

Johnson: You watch your’n.

Ok. I agree that is the correct way to do it. We agree 100%. But tell me then, going against social psychology, individual psychology, and at least 2500 years of civilization, how all of a sudden, when propaganda is at its strongest, when the government dominates more facets of life, when education is meant to control people, and more people attend school than ever, please explain to me, how all of a sudden millions of people are going to come to a realization, a realization strong enough that causes the government, all its bureaucracies, all its soldiers, all its policeman, with all their tanks, all their weapons, and all their dispositions bent towards power-plays, to just say, “hey, you know what, these peaceful guys are right?”
I believe it is a bit more difficult than the wizard of oz, as there are way more systems at play, as well as billions of people dependent upon what the government “gives” them.
But I do agree with your theory. I love people, all kinds, I would hate to use violence. But 2+2=4 every time.

Dear Booth, Ed, Oz,

Yeah. I’m wondering too.

Smacks of baiting to me. Of gubmint trolls attempting to goad people into writing something that can later be used to prosecute.

Butler Shaffer, one of the most erudite columnists at LRC, put it this way:

I have always rejected the use of violence – whether against the state or other individuals – not so much because of what it would do to them, but what it would do to me.

As I have told a few people who work within political systems, “if I thought that violence could be used to accomplish my ends, I’d join you guys!”

Great video on why all that is necessary is for enough people to simply start thinking differently.

It’s because the massive apparatus only came into existence because too many people held false beliefs.

Change the beliefs and the entire apparatus falls apart, immediately, seemingly magically.

No violence is required. None at all.

Sorry, forget the url.

Even I don’t sanction revolution – though I fear that’s where we’re headed, and I WOULD support transhumanism on an individual basis – but believe it’s impossible to go where we want.
Where we want to go, I believe, is ANYWHERE we don’t have decisions made FOR us. Where we can profit from our ideas, or burn out – in PEACE.

ANYTHING that can enter our brain without our knowledge – from repeated memes in music and TV, to film foolishness, to the memes in commercials and magazines to the “peer reviewed” lies that pass for research…

To cell phones, where people we trust can infect our mind by being behind our defenses…

To all too soon a direct port into our brain, beyond even a capacity to become aware, a programmed mind… Life as a biological automaton.

Look up the last two episodes of Dollhouse. not bad at painting the picture: the mind can only hold so much at a time, and we’re REALLY close about hitting the singularity as is…
I really have a bad feeling about where we’re heading – and a WORSE feeling about WHY.
So many people DESERVE it – they’ve chosen it – but WE can’t get out, and we won’t have a choice.

So – Revolution, kill ’em all – and IF we are PERFECT in execution, we’ll return to the original form of government – and soon enough, be right back here, completing the revolution by biting us in our own ass. 250 years or so…

Ok, WE won’t be alive to see it – but our descendants will. We could always try and get it right, but the only way to do that is to change the human…
Ultimately, by force of one sort or another.

We lose before we’ve even started.
Revolution like that not going to work out too well, we’re not there yet. Maybe never.

trolling…is a perfectly acceptable technique. i do it. shadow casting flies & lobbing baits are good, too. for sport, catch/release, and for food.

to troll, or not to troll, that is not the question, or the difference, here. *where* to troll & lob is all that’s being contended.

bevin, & it seems an established contingent here, likes the placid waters of lake woebegone. phil (& jean? jason? prolly others) is hot for the flemish cap & 6-sigma perfect storms are outside his model.

a “revolution” is just a 3d circle. a wheel. the bloodthirstiness, or parliamentary proceduralness / democracyness, or “altiduninal consciousness” of the hamsterpower (even hemihamster power☻) spinning the thing is *maybe* an interesting epiphenomenal segue (taleb *might* say), but not the point.

what is the point (of congruency)? it’s here, in this reworked aphorism: feed a fish a hook, eat for a day; sow the fisheries with hooks, eat for a lifetime – or until over-fished oblivion – whichever comes first (& which is another spinning wheel…).

“we need more fish”, say the various shimmering schools amongst themselves, & to each other. representative phil wants more pirhanas, representative bevin wants more angelfish. the water-filled basins & sumps & low places covering most of the planet babble & gurgle & murmur appreciatively, “here, fishy-fishy”, & the fish all say, “water? wtf is that?”.

ozy sez, “start evolving those fins into feet, & wings – & get outta’ the water”… cuz you ain’t fishing or cutting bait – you’re being fished & cut into bait.

♪ ♫ ♪
What goes up, must come down
Spinnin’ wheel, got ta go round
Talkin’ ’bout your troubles it’s a cryin’ sin
Ride a painted pony,
Let the spinnin’ wheel spin

~ blood, sweat & tear…oh, yes indeed

In sunshine and shadow, from darkness till noon
Over mountains that reach from the sky to the moon
A man with a dream that will never let go
Keeps searching to find El Dorado

So ride, boldly ride, to the end of the rainbow
Ride, boldly ride, till you find El Dorado

*auh! I always thought it was “ride, pony ride,…”

well, this one’s got a pony, lol

ozymandias, angelfish are ferocious. Almost as bad as piranhas.

As to your trolling and catch and release.

I always despised catch and release, I though it was a waste on both sides. A disgrace to the the chase.

Ride a painted pony,… wasn’t that a CSN (or Miller) song too?

Also, Bevin, so cool, the Tiny Dot.

Dear oz,

Lake Woebegone?

Hardly.

I want RESULTS.

ASAP.

Not wheel-spinning. Not running in place on a hamster wheel.

So how does one get results, asap?

Only by doing what will actually change the game, rather than merely the players.

Neither hot-headed “men of action,” nor play nice and color only inside the lines “get back to the constitution” types will ever get results. They will only change the players, not the game. The only change they will ever effect, is Obama’s bullshit “change we can believe in.”

The status quo, the political system we have, right now, is nothing more and nothing less than the external manifestation of what We the Sheeple have inside their heads, right now.

Change what is inside their heads, and the political system that we have, right now, changes. Not “eventually.” Right now!

That is Larken Rose’s point. It is also Stefan Molyneux’s point. It is also Butler Shaffer’s point. It is also mine.

Can we change what is inside their heads, right now?

That is the 64,000 dollar question.

But the point is, that is where the car keys were lost. That is where one must search to find them. Sure, it is easier to look where the light is better. But one will never find them there.

Dear 5t01,

Glad you liked the video. So did I.

Funny how making one’s point more simply, also makes it more powerfully.

Commentary on the Internet is psychologically revealing. YouTube in particular.

Semi-literate louts engage in “flame wars,” in “qui es mas macho” dick measuring contests. They equate rudeness with toughness. They have no idea how ridiculous they appear to anyone with the slightest intellectual discernment or psychological sophistication.

They come across as “Dumb and Dumber.” As characters in “Idiocracy.”

Boothe, as a man who has witnessed much throughout my 47 years, I would never try to compel anyone to do anything they do not want to do. Nor do i find those who faced with the evidence of their “prison,” and who do nothing, would I find that funny in the least. I find it more sad than anything. Tangible physical violence does not need be done to you for that violence still to have its effect. You just need to be aware that they CAN do it at anytime they wish, and the point remains the same, whether they beat or kill you, your neighbor or someone in a distant city. The point is that acquiescence is submission, and does not change anything.
However way you choose to explain it it is all the same, as someone who is ignorant of freedom, and they submit, or someone who knows about liberty, yearns for it and does nothing. The result is exactly the same.
What I am saying is that I am on your side. I only meant you to reflect on your actions, and see that there is a possibility of achieving new results, especially against those that make rules, laws, and could kill you at any time. Living in a fantasy world where you “believe” the gun-verment is losing strength is merely a coping mechanism your mind uses to justify that things can only get better. I have wishes too, I wish that we could all just get along! Too bad that’s not the case…and frankly Boothe, that’s the only reality you need to understand.

Phil, I’ve witnessed quite a bit in my short 54 years as well. I stay out of the ghetto, because as you have observed, the violence there has had its effect on me albeit indirectly. I avoid the police very carefully since my various interactions with them have almost always been to my detriment, although I have been spared any physical violence at their hands thus far. But if you think that we as a nation are ever going to end aggression with aggression and end violence with violence, check your Flavor-Aid. I think you’re drinking the neocon war-monger brand. People never achieve anything other than temporary peace through armed insurrection, revolt or war. What they achieve is destruction, suffering and bloodshed every time. And almost invariably, the government Phoenix that arises from the ashes tends to be worse than its predecessor. Peace is an individual accomplishment as a general rule, achieved by careful preparation, coherent thought, high moral values and treating others as you want to be treated. Warfare and bloodshed are also individual actions; refuse to participate and it stops.
Now any group of people can achieve peace through superior firepower. Those who would oppress, enslave, control and slaughter you must understand that if they engage you there is no way they can win. But being prepared for war is far different than waging it. I carry a fire extinguisher and first aid kit too, but I don’t seek to burn my jeep or cut myself up. Superior force and preparedness was the original intent of the 2nd Amendment; it was to be a deterrent, the final check and balance in this system of government and a means to quell tyranny if need be. The principle worked well in Switzerland for centuries. But in the 1860’s it didn’t work too well here if you’ll recall: Lots of bloodshed, worse government than before, decades of privation and oppression in the South. We don’t need a repeat lesson, do we?

You see Phil, people get comfortable, and they become complacent and lazy. Then these lazy and complacent people hire out their own defense, because keeping a gun, ammunition and training in order (i.e. being well regulated) is difficult and cuts into their leisure time. So, stronger hands use taxpayer largesse to control “the defense” and reshape it into oppressors, just as we’ve seen recently and you well know. This is why, when the OWS protestors confronted the riot pigs with “You’re part of us. Why are you doing this?”, the pigs answered with sneers and pepper spray. They aren’t part of them or the rest of us. They enjoy special privileges bought at our expense and many are sadistic thugs that thrive on violence.

Waging war on them with their weapons, on their system, on their terms and their turf will get you out of the gene pool rapidly. I am confident that’s what they want people to try. It would flush their opponents out in the open where they could be exterminated with ease. Anyone who advocates for bloodshed at this point is at best a fool and probably working for “the man” to incite this stupidity. If you want “mo’ better” oppression, go for the bloodshed option; you’ll get it.

No Phil, this present conflict will be won with the free exchange of ideas, open discourse, reasoned responses and the education of those around us. Persuasion is better than force. It’s an ancient parable and it’s true. I meet people all the time now that consider themselves conservative, but clearly espouse libertarian (and even anarchistic) values and ideas. It’s not just 40 or so folks that congregate around Eric at this forum. The truth has a ring to it that resonates with many folks and they can’t ignore it. I’m seeing more and more people in my community waking up. It will take time and effort, but we can wake up many more and as they start to say no to the PTB the tide will turn. Or we can have it your way and the blood will flow. I prefer Gandhi’s approach. But you can see how that Warsaw ghetto thing works out for you with the Fourth Reich. We’ll probably get to watch you burn on youtube…

I would love to see it work to a T as you describe it Boothe!! Would love it. My only question is how do you know ” people never achieve anything other than temporary peace through insurrection?” Maybe those people who have done war have done it with wrong ends in mind? But what have the people on this earth achieved through not doing anything? Peace? Really? In peace, this country had it all, no violence, and then it “allowed” it’s leaders to get big headed and arrogant and start a war and drag a bunch of people through that Civil War that transformed the values of the individual man, in that he had allowed others to dictate what he valued. And then the government got more ballsy, and implemented its taxes, or its “tiny dot,” and the people allowed that, no questions asked, and they did it “peaceably.” My point was, what is the difference between letting people do something because you’re a scared bitch, and letting em do it cuz you don’t want to hurt people?
What’s the difference between doing stuff with libertarian knowledge, and doing it because your ignorant and don’t want to ruffle feathers?
I am a practice meditation every day, and I am we’ll acquainted with Gandhi , but what did Gandhi accomplish if you look at the world environment today?
You see, I understand the libertarian argument. I understand the “costs” of war. I understand the NAP as stated by Murray Rothbard. What I fail to understand is what doing nothing accomplishes, besides doing nothing.

“Maybe those people who have done war have done it with wrong ends in mind?”

telos. the future’s not an engineering project. its a side effect. and so far, there’s no “maybe” about it: “those people” have been the wrong means. or, maybe mr. mean genes vs mr. green jeans? lol….

Dear Phil,

You keep assuring everyone that “I get it! I really do get it!”

Then you prove you really DON’T get it by your follow up responses.

Example: “What I fail to understand is what doing nothing accomplishes, besides doing nothing.”

Deprogramming billions of sheeple, waking them up to the fact that they have no obligation to obey “authoritay” may be the most difficult and thankless task in the world.

It hardly counts as “doing nothing.”

If you don’t get that, then you simply don’t get it at all.

Also, deprogramming billions of sheeple, waking them up to the fact that they have no obligation to obey “authoritay” is not merely an “intermediate step” in the process of achieving universal rights and liberty.

It is the whole shooting match. Do that, and the work is already done. The revolution is over.

That’s what so many fellow libertarians who are impatient to start shooting don’t get.

No, what I said was I get what you are saying. Now this has changed to you all de programming billions of people and that it is a thankless task? Pretty arrogant I must say. Is Eric Peters Autos one of those sites that is going to help deprogram those billions? Why stop at just a few billion? Just change the whole world through peace and love man? Bevin you just got ridiculous.
Because in order to deprogram billions of people you not only must take away their televisions, get them being productive rather than dependent, give them a concept of what freedom is (which means they must actually experience it, since learning is done better through experience rather than telling), actually educate them upon how economics works, re-educate them since the “sheeple” have been told what to think not how to think, teach them about health and how to use food as medicine rather than going to a dr, teach them why drinking fluoridated water has rotted their brains, why sugar and high fructose corn syrup has altered their DNA, why they must go from being passive recipients to active participants in their life, how they must learn to be personally responsible, and what they entails, why following authority rather than following their own line of reason has been their downfall all along, how corporatism is tied to governmental intrusion into our lives, and that in order to break free of this fascism, we must also refuse to purchase all of the cheap shit created today which does not help us but is meant to create jobs for the mass of people, what corporatism is and how to look out for it, and why it is meant to dumb down people, why playing video games causing the psychology of the individual to close off the world and results in his desire and action of exploring the world to be less and less, why interaction with his environment is the number one teacher, how everything they know about history and its major players is a lie, and why developing a firm basis for philosophy, reflection and contemplation of the self and the world around him, as well as all of the inner dependent systems it takes to create this work, as well as the interdependence of everything in nature. And that’s just for starters man. So if you think average joe blow living in the ghetto, in poor rural america, in Africa, in Siberia, in china, India, and South America, are going to have time to change their entire lives” to be “deprogrammed” you have underestimated how “easy” this whole liberty thing is.
So yeah, I do “get it.” I get it all too well. Liberty is hard enough for one man to figure out on his own, with a library, Internet, and time on his hands, but its not so easy to get other people to see the complex process that liberty really is, especially when liberty isn’t in their top 1000 in their priority list. You are about liberty, and I just had to break the beginning of the process down for you, imagine someone who has to start from ground zero?

Of course it’s worth trying!!!!!!!!! Definitely. What I have is not pessimism though it is realism, that is why I explained it in the way I did, painting the picture of the obstacles that must be overcome. But, in order to shake people of their mental shackles, they must first be convinced that they are even wearing shackles, then they must admit they find that burdensome. That is the first step. How do you affect or educate billions of people who can’t even read? Who have no idea about Eric Peters, who Ron Paul is, or how money works? There are only 260 million people in the USA age 16-50. 40% are on government assistance of some kind. The libertarian movement will not affect them. So you have a base of 160 million to work with. Even if liberty and peace made an impact on 1% a year, which is huge, you are still up against 250 million sheep, just in this country alone, per year. How many years would it take, peacefully, to “deprogram” billions?
Those statistics are the truth? And truth is what Liberty is about. The liberty movement is using a toothpick to chip away a glacier, when its “enemy” can keep building glacier after glacier after glacier to freeze public sentiment to its ice age ways of thinking.

@ Phil Freeman – “My only question is how do you “know” people never achieve anything other than temporary peace through insurrection?”

Well Phil, cite one example of permanent peace in any society, culture, state, city or even encampment. My dad used to say “As long as there’s two men and one woman, there will be war.” I’m inclined to believe that, at least in the sense of a parable. If mankind didn’t constantly fall over the stumbling blocks of pain, hunger, thirst, weather, sex drive, power lust, greed, impatience, etc., I might dispute that. If humans were purely logical, reasoning and unemotional beings I would tend to disagree with that pithy hypothesis. But we are overwhelmingly subject to the pull of the flesh, desire for money and power, and all manner of other temptations; especially when we are of “military age.” To say or worse to believe otherwise is foolish. To state that humans have ever established lasting peace through any means, peaceful, war-like or in between is ludicrous. Many people have gone to war in the past with the noblest of purposes (or so they believed) and the results have invariably been the same: Temporary peace followed by more bloodshed. History bears this out.

“Maybe those people who have done war have done it with wrong ends in mind? But what have the people on this earth achieved through not doing anything?”

If you think that somehow we, as Homo sapiens, have evolved beyond our base elements and can now wage war to achieve a “higher purpose” because our hearts are now more pure than our ancestors’, you must be smoking some really good stuff. I don’t think Orwell meant for you to take that “War is Peace” thing literally. As you know Ghandi managed to get 200 million Indians to sit down and do nothing. It is true that a small number were shot for doing nothing, but that act so shamed the British Empire that it changed the whole game…merely by doing nothing. But Ghandi himself didn’t do “nothing.” He educated and inspired his people into arguably the largest master-mind group ever formed long before the Internet. Now I don’t necessarily believe that we can achieve the same level of cooperation with 316 million Amerikans. Nor do I believe that we would have to. It is almost always the work of a tireless minority that affects change, not a super majority or even a simple majority. Reality seems to follow thought. Change the thoughts of those around you and you can shape and bend reality. The other side does it all the time. We can too.

Sure, we don’t have their resources so it will be more difficult. But hopelessness certainly won’t work. Often when we are at our darkest hour, our legs are failing, we can see all we’ve worked for about to be taken away, if we hang on just a tiny bit longer, make that last push toward the finish line, struggle to answer that hard test question, we arrive, we win, often well ahead of the competition. Then we tackle the next challenge life brings and try again. This is a journey, neither an objective nor a destination. If you are truly living, rather than existing, then there will be a struggle waiting for you. It always comes back to the individual and his or her thoughts and actions. It is the side we choose and the methods we use in this timeless cycle of struggles between good and evil that define who we are.

Man as a whole hasn’t really changed for thousands of years.

This is my new technique with statists. Just point out the parallels with the ancient world and then make a quip about how we are better today. On my trial run it worked, they had no response.

Anyway back on point, because man has not changed he is being led back into his base form of social organization. Everyone but the ruling class and their favored servants and intellectuals will have a short brutish existence.

With all the dust that’s been raised, it may be worth reiterating my original point.

One. The man made world is the way it is because of how people think. Change the way people think, and the man made world changes, automatically.

Two. identifying what must be done is simple. But getting it done is not. I never said it was. Simple is not the same as easy.

Three. For whatever reason, some people just can’t seem to understand the distinction between One and Two.

Boothe at August 23, 2013 at 8:37 pm wrote:-

As you know Ghandi [sic] managed to get 200 million Indians to sit down and do nothing. It is true that a small number were shot for doing nothing, but that act so shamed the British Empire that it changed the whole game…

People are quite fond of making claims like that, but it simply isn’t true. Gandhi was aiming for that, but the British simply gave him the space to do it without ever relinquishing a firm hold. Whenever he got to being a material problem, they locked him up to cool off. What Gandhi actually achieved worked in with Indian culture’s tendency towards revisionism, that flowed from not being reality based: after independence, those that took power claimed to be his successors and wrote their narrative as though he had actually achieved what he was after, despite the fact that their own gains came from quite other sources – and you have bought into that narrative. But what is there now flows instead from Britain’s own “dyarchy” aim of getting a self governing dominion that would cost less, from U.S. pressure, and from Britain’s own post war economic weakness, that all worked together to accelerate a pull-out faster than was safe. Gandhi achieved nothing at the time but only captured the narrative constructed later.

Oh, and permanent peace is quite easy, and in fact it is inherent in your formulation of the problem: as it was said of Rome, make a desert and call it peace. That has been done before, though lesser outcomes may well be more fruitful.

Bevin, it would be thought-provoking of you if you at least offered a suggestion or two about how you are going to go about “changing the minds of the billions of people?”

@ P. M. Lawrence – I don’t doubt what you say. The legend is always far better than the reality. And I am well aware of what Ghandi’s successors did. Politicians always try to get as much mileage out of taking credit for their predecessors’ work as they can. Napoleon Hill cited Ghandi as an example of what you can do peacefully on a grand scale to affect change. So I stand corrected for over-generalizing.

Whether the story of what Ghandi accomplished is 100% accurate or not isn’t the point. The point I was trying to make was that Ghandi was changing hearts and minds (despite all his warts) without inciting armed insurrection and bloodletting on a grand scale. He had no choice. The Indian people were unarmed. As opposed to Lincoln, who incited the South Carolinians to fire on a supply ship he sent in defiance of their peaceful requests, declared war without congressional approval and then proceeded to dismantle this Constitutional Republic with massive bloodshed. I suppose one could equate “Reconstruction” to peace in the same way the Romans equated scorched earth to peace. Trouble is, peace never lasts.

People invariably covet what the neighbors have and seek to take it from them. Especially if “the neighbors” aren’t using it (or are using it for purposes that the aggressor disagrees with). Take Afghanistan for example. Those hillbillies aren’t using all the lithium over there and they aren’t developing it to supply the west, so why not take it? How about that chromite they are digging out and using to fund “Al Qaeda”? Or maybe the copper, iron or gold? Maybe they don’t want to dig up “them thar’ hills” and get pissy when outsiders think they can just come on in and do so. So gigantic financial interests in the west decide they should have control of those mineral deposits (and pipeline routes and opium poppies too). So in go the troops and out goes the peace. We’ve seen it time and time again down through the ages. Some things never change.

Seems like the British tried to subjugate Afghanistan and ran afoul of the “Graveyard of Empires” oh, along about 1842 or so. Correct? But they took it back in 1878 as I recall. Now that was lasting peace, right? Oops. That didn’t last. But finally, when the Russians brought those Afghani Mujahideen dogs to heel in 1989…err…I mean when the Mujahideen handed the Soviets their ass and sent them packing in 1989, after serious bloodletting. THEN we had a lasting peace, right?

Oops, wrong again. Now the USSA is trying to do it all over again, with even more bloodletting. It never ends. And just like the First and Second Anglo-Chinese wars, opium seems to be a central ingredient in the mix. And government restrictions and prohibition fuel profiteering for the few now just as they did in the Opium Wars. So when we go for a temporary peace, because historically that’s the best we as the human race seem able to achieve, nonviolent means are to be preferred. That was the key point I was trying to make. I’m bloody sorry I used Ghandi and India as my example.

not in “what order” will you change the minds of the billions of people, Eric, but rather, BEVIN, HOW (HOW) (HOW) will you change their minds?

Dear Phil,

A drunk is searching for his car keys under a streetlight. A passerby asks the drunk where he last saw his keys. The drunk points toward a dark alley.

“Then why aren’t you looking over there?” the passerby asks.

The drunk replies “Because the light is better over here.”

How people think, determines what they do. What people do, determines what shape the man made world takes on.

If one wants to change what shape the man made world takes on, one has to change what people do, by changing how people think.

Bad news I know. But don’t shoot the messenger.

All I’m saying is that if one wants to find one’s car keys, one has to look where one lost them in the first place. It may be hard to find them there because it is dark. But unfortunately it is the only place one even stands a chance of finding them.

Re: How specifically does one go about changing how people think?

That’s a separate question. But Eric’s answer “One at a time” is appropriately Zen masterly.

One of my answers is, “By not being part of the problem.”

If you’ve ever used a balance scale, you know that if you take a weight from one side of the scale, and put it on the other, you don’t just increase the weight on the other side of the scale, you simultaneously decrease the weight on the original side of the scale.

Dear Booth, PM,

I tend to think that in this context it’s better not to get bogged down in whether historical figures had feet of clay.

What counts is the principle being illustrated, not whether a specific historical figure lived up to the legend.

The classic Western “The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance” had a great scene that summed this up.

Ransom Stoddard: You’re not going to use the story, Mr. Scott?

Maxwell Scott: No, sir. This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.

One at a time does not answer HOW> Nor is it “Zen.”
Nor does talking about a drunk looking for his keys. He is drunk, therefore acting incoherently anyways. He is looking for his keys, he has no idea where or why he is looking where he is. You on the other hand, are not drunk (I dont think at least) therefore your attempts at skirting around the question, I find a bit frustrating. Obviously I understand the difficulty level involved. I think that was proven in the last five paragraphs I wrote, specifically on the difficulty level involved in changing minds.
I understand.
My question to you again is HOW are you so easily going to “help these people find their keys” master?

Dear Phil,

I have to laugh at the transparency of your approach.

But hey, keep trying. That’s what they’re paying you for.

I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt first of course.

What? Because I ask you a question like How, that means someone is paying me to what? Steal you and Pinky’s master plan to take over the world and spread liberty? Come on Bevin?

Phil Freeeman – As Eric pointed out we change the hearts and minds of those around us one at a time…with persuasion, reason, logic, facts, analogies and parables. You have to figure out what approaches work with the person you are trying to reach and use those. Then you may even discover that person is “stony ground” and there is no point in planting seeds there at all. If so, don’t waste your time, merely dust off your sandals and move on. Planting seeds is all you can do; it’s up the individual recipient to cultivate, water and nurture them. Frequently it’s both a fruitless and thankless job. But often someone I’ve planted seeds with will come back with more questions or considered debate, and then I can contribute to the cultivation.

If you look at it as a project you can simply finish, you missed my earlier point about life being a journey not a destination. We’re here to work in the fields; planting, then watering and cultivating where it is productive to do so. We are also supposed to learn where not to waste our time. Remember Phil, it’s always easier to dwell on and spread negativity, then give up and quit, than it is to plant seeds, prune your own vineyards and build a flock. If you don’t get that, then pray for knowledge, truth and wisdom, and if your stay the course and be persistant then you will, eventually. Patience and peristance my friend, patience and persistance.

I don’t understand why people who are not being talked to answer questions for those people. I appreciate your generalized defining of how you would change minds Boothe, really I do, but in no way is what you said considered to be a thought response at all. It was getting a book report from a third grader: “I liked it cuz it was good.” In no where do you or the third grader get to the meat of the problem. Getting someone to ask questions in no way causes them to change their behavior at all. But I would expect someone who has no idea about behavioral science or social psychology or system analysis to give the answer you did. Thanks Boothe, now if only Bevin could give his answer? I’m dying to be enlightened.

Dear Boothe,

You wrote in response to “Phil”:

Then you may even discover that person is “stony ground” and there is no point in planting seeds there at all. If so, don’t waste your time, merely dust off your sandals and move on.

That was rather apropos.

My take? Paid trollers also learn through trial and error. Obvious baiting gets them banned. So they try another tack. Act dumb. “Gee, I just don’t understand. Would you please be so kind as to explain it to me, again, for the umpteenth time, puhleeze?”

Meanwhile they’re laughing away as they type. “Ha, ha. I really made this guy waste his time on me.”

Could I be dead wrong? Could I have wronged a potential comrade in arms?

It’s possible.

But after repeatedly underscoring that the task of deprogramming mankind is a long and arduous one that must be undertaken by individuals at the grassroots level, umpteen times, and getting only “How, how, how?” that’s a chance I’m willing to take.

@ phil freeman

“I don’t understand why people who are not being talked to answer questions for those people.”

fee-fi-fo-rum. its a forum. free for all, but donations are accepted, with as few stipulations as possible. or, at least part forum & part choir. but by all means keep peppering the stew. or just stirring the pot. you’re cooking something, just not what you think, or want, or think you want, or are pretending you want, as in if your efforts are all just attempted coaxing of turkeys to the chopping block, as some have said — as if the internet were not already a john boos hard rock maple doozy.

Bevin – The stony ground analogy was definitely aimed at our latest clover. Take note that this one rhymes with “Gil” and it tacked on “Freeman” to add a taste of the outdated “Christian Patriot” movement to its repertoire, complete with its initial call for mass suicide at the hands of the thug-scrum.

These critters never give up do they? Isn’t it interesting how it appeared after we hadn’t seen “Gil” spewing its idiotic banalities for a time. This one appears to be slightly more intelligent, but I suspect “Gil” was playing stupid all along. I doubt it’s a coincidence that “Phil” appeared about the time that goo-gul was unable to quell the flow of unapproved thought on this site.

Eric, I vote we give “Phil” the clover badge and only reply to its future posts to edify and enlighten others, just as we’ve done with “Gil” and “clover” in the past.

Dear Boothe,

Amen to that!

Gil/Phil. Awfully suspicious I agree.

Ya gotta wonder, wouldn’t somebody placed in a situation where he was forced to understand his opponent’s clearly winning argument, eventually be won over, against his will, by the better angels of his nature, and “go native?” A la “Dances with Wolves” or “Avatar”? But there I go, thinking rationally. Shame on me.

Also, Trollers like that may think they have put one over on their targets. But have they really? They are not the only ones reading the dialogue. Many third parties who may be on the fence are reading them too. Our painstaking, bend over backward, patient rebuttals may well tip the scales for them and bring them into our camp. In which case the troller has outsmarted himself, and delivered his opponent an unexpected victory.

Dear Eric,

If “They” are in fact attempting to throw monkey wrenches into the works, then that is an encouraging sign indeed!

As I mentioned before,

Stage One is when they feel it is safe to totally ignore you. You are so insignificant you are not even worth bothering with. You can’t even provoke a response from them.

Stage Two is when they ridicule you. “Tin foil hat nut jobs. Ha, ha, ha!” That’s all you rate.

Stage Three is when they attack you because they can no longer ignore your influence. They know your logic is actually having an impact by turning public opinion.

Kind of a perverse form of endorsement I know, but we “tin foil hat nutjobs” have to take what we can get!

I like that word statist. It reminds me to remember the real decisions are made at the CFR type groups that give us free trade agreements, Obamacares’ and develop policies that raise or destroy economies. We, their victims, only point to the politician of the day and wonder why it keeps getting worse. Yes we are living through, and mostly too blind to see, the implementation of policies and philosophies that were developed by guys like Bertran Russell and Cecil Rhodes to bring in their one world rulership of the us – the unwashed masses.

Hi Jason,

I think you’re right – and more to the point, that the time has come.

It was the same some 230 years ago. The Committees of Correspondence began by talking, sharing views – sharing anger and frustration. Every effort was made to reconcile the situation by talking and by writing.

Unfortunately, these ultimately proved insufficient.

As I expect they will in our time.

No, the committees of correspondence are a bad example because they were building towards a violent uprising from the get go, much like the communist idea of a vanguard; we can tell because they were started by Sam Adams in New England (others started them in other places), and he was already inciting violence locally by that time, well before the people were “ready”. As much as anything, his methods and eventual aims of social upheaval were why he got sidelined later on. The people who were giving peaceful means a go acted openly while they were doing that, sending petitions to London and taking the sort of initiatives that the first, not yet rebellious continental congress considered, e.g. the narrowly defeated Galloway Plan. And, considering the ulterior and self serving motives of the rebels – who set up what the U.S.A. has now, and were warned at the time so we know they knew – even those who gave up on peaceful methods that time weren’t justified; they were more like Solomon’s son Rehoboam, doubling up on his father’s harshness.

jason, I think you’re severely underestimating the value of, ‘just talking’. Consider this:

Ending Tyranny Without Violence

“… if tyranny really rests on mass consent, then the obvious means for its overthrow is simply by mass withdrawal of that consent. […] all tyranny rests on popular consent […]

Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces.” …

http://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/murray-n-rothbard/overthrowing-the-state/

The more oppressive the state becomes, the more it affects more people, and the more that happens, the more people talk about it, resulting in less support for empire.

I think tyranny is deeper than meets the eye. Once the state steps in and destroys all independent groups, basically declaring them illegal, it creates a vacuum where the only source of meaning, story, narrative IS the state. Therefore people fight ever harder for it because they have no other choice. It is either that or insanity. Removing consent is a very appealing idea but to remove consent, you must give it to someone or something else. For most people family has no meaning without the state, neither does God, there job, there marriage, there sexual orientation, EVERYTHING. I think the intellectual and psychological ground has been laid and for a time power is going to win for a while. You want to oppose the state? Start or join a “gang” buy and sell what you want and for the prices you see fit without licenses and you will see how far you get. You will see how much support you get. Even the people who support you will really work for the state indirectly like your lawyer having given an oath…. We are doing one thing by talking though, and that is creating a new narrative that justifies opposing the state. Don’t think this will be allowed though. It will not. Eric is probably on a longer list. Get used to it. We need to move beyond narrative and to action and as one post I saw said, we must not be afraid to bleed.

The intent is obviously sarcastic — i am really saying, “As if there was something in the world that I care less about”.
Ed. Wouldn’t it be better for you to go leach around someone who writes a grammar blog?
I do disagree. I disagree with the use of libertarianism in today’s world. It solves nothing by saying you are about liberty, when in reality you are about less restrictions.

sarcasm, ok, but humor, too, right? “phil freeman”, who appears to be against more free man (less restriction)? is “phil” a clever shortening of philistine, too?

Oz and Bevin, Phil may be logged in to WND at the same time he’s logged in here and that’s causing his confusion. Maybe he’ll look over the rest of the threads and come to a different conclusion.

This is particularly telling:
“These guys here want police, think police are necessary to enforce the “correct” rule of law, ”

“These guys here” wouldn’t piss on a cop if they saw one on fire, let alone ‘think police are” anything other than sociopathic goons.

It’s amazing how wrong a guy can be, ain’t it?

I think the copyright downstairs sums up the epautos stance on pigs.

Dear Ed,

I was forced to examine the nature of clear writing when assigned to do a presentation on it.

Guess what I discovered?

Clear writing is directly correlated to clear thinking.

Imagine that!

Unclear writing leads to unclear thinking, and unclear thinking leads to unclear writing. A vicious cycle if there ever was one.

That is why the NAP is so easy to understand, and why justifications for democratic dictatorship sound like sleazy evasions.

Ozymandias, I am for pure freedom, not less restrictions on freedom. I am for anarchy, no government, not the merry-go-round of government these guys profess to want. These guys here want good guys to run things, guys who can’t be made to lose their moral compass in the face of payola and treats from large corporations. These guys here want police, think police are necessary to enforce the “correct” rule of law, even though history states eventually the police, the government, will throw off its chains and become an oligarchical totalitarian regime, controlling money, work, movement and food.
These guys here think they have finally found the right answers. I think Eric does a phenomenal job on his car reviews and car commentary, and that is the subjects his books published are on. I just think there is so much more to this libertarian angle, than live and let live.

Dear Phil,

Which website are you talking about now?

It can’t be EPA.

You must be thinking about Free Republic or World Net Daily.

sounds good, phil. but your take doesn’t sound like most of what passes through here.

Dear Bevin,
I think you’re right. I also bear in mind that, sometimes, unclear writing and poor command of language may be an indicator of disturbed thinking.

This is important to me because my writing has sometimes been described as being the work of a profoundly disturbed mind. 😉

No. I’m talking about this one. Ask anyone on here how they would like to see the world run? Ask them about law enforcement? Ask them what they think will happen to all those who believe in socialism if the revolution were to succeed? Ask them about how property rights should be conferred? Ask them what they are doing to push the idea of revolution? Ask them how themthey define revolution? Ask them if they understand how revolutions work, and what is typically the result of revolutions throughout history, more government, less government, or the absence of government?
Ask them what is more important on a comment section of a blog, a correctly delivered message conveyed through stream of conscious thinking (not checked as though writing a term paper), or constant little unproductive bits of correction that have nothing to do with liberty whatsoever?
This site lacks balls, the balls it takes to get the message of liberty addressed. Want balls read Malcolm x’s definition of revolution in A Message to Grassroots.
That’s what it takes to get to liberty.

Dear Ed,

Hey, been there myself.

Classic case of “It Is Dangerous to Be Right When the Government Is Wrong.”

Dear Phil,

You wrote,

Want balls read Malcolm x’s definition of revolution in A Message to Grassroots.
That’s what it takes to get to liberty.

Actually, no, that’s not “what it takes to get liberty.”

That only gets you “the typical result of revolutions throughout history — more government.”

Larken Rose has a pretty good handle of the real solution.

Phil, I don’t know what website you’re reading, but here at EPAutos I think most of us are for “Enlightened Anarchy” or something close to it.

Yeah, “Enlightened Anarchy” I like that term, BrentP.

I like Panarchy too:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2009/06/michael-s-rozeff/the-state-must-abandon-its-territorial-claims/

Perhaps that’s what Phil was afraid of?

Dear Phil,

You are definitely barking up the wrong tree.

This is a market anarchist (predominantly) forum.

The ideas you oppose are conservative authoritarian ideas. No one here advocates them.

Well, of course Ed (August 20, 2013 at 2:38 am) has a profoundly disturbed mind. If he hadn’t, he would be out of touch with reality. If you aren’t disturbed in disturbing times, you’re not getting it. As the old saying has it, if you can keep your head while all around you are losing theirs, maybe they know something you don’t.

Dear PM,

Indeed!

Assuming one is in touch with reality, a profoundly disturbing reality mandates a profoundly disturbed response.

Unless of course, one is a sociopathic member of the political establishment, in which case, one can launch into a verse or two of “God Bless the USA” and pretend everything if hunky dory.

I get the difference, between law enforcers and peace officers. This country started off with peace officers I believe, and see how that evolved? Theoretically, since that is all that goes on here right anyways, I would like to live in a society that has flying automobiles and pills that we eat as meals! Both of which are as likely to occur as guys who are strictly uncorruptable and strictly look out for the individuals rights. As for unalienable rights, this is an idea came up by men. The only rights I am entitled to, are the rights I assert, and each individual has asserted different rights. Those on welfare don’t want many rights. Those on farms in the middle of nowhere do want more rights, and will go to ANY lengths to keep it that way, etc, etc. A wise man once said in order to know what you are, define the world you live in.

Phil Freeman wrote, “As for unalienable rights, this is an idea came up by men. ”

No man, that what’s called, a natural right.

As much as you appear to be enlightened, I think you have much to learn.

MoT, more important to me than being able to edit posts is to be able to respond to a comment directly. Something in the siteware makes the ‘reply’ button drop off after a response is posted to a response.

That’s the only real bug in the way the discussion is structured, at least to me. The other defuiciencies don’t really bother me. If I fat-finger my spelling, it doesn’t bother me to admit the mistake and offer a correction in another reply, but if there’s no ‘reply’ button, then I can’t even do that and keep my correction in the same part of the thread.

It’s minor stuff, I know.

Dom,

Is there a way to limit the amount of formatting permitted in vBulletin?

I understand what you mean, but Google has you by the balls. Even though I have strong political beliefs based on the suffering my family endured under communist dictatorship, I have never inserted them into my blog. I keep my blog about its purported topic. Google wants focused websites. Members of my blogging group have blogs with far less content than mine, but just as high a PR because those particular blogs are niche blogs.

My basic point is that finding enough people to pay $25 a month for your content, no matter how good, is just about impossible People won’t even pay that much for porn. I don’t believe that plan has a prayer of succeeding. Once Google breaks up with you, it seldom takes you back, but I do believe deleting the libertarian articles and focusing on the auto business could get them to give you a 2 or 3 PR.

“Since we removed Google’s “analytics” from the site, traffic has rebounded like Elvis in ’68”

I’ll bet getting rid of Google analitis is what stopped the page from hanging up on a script until it crashed my browser. That was happening so often that I wasn’t even able to read articles here for awhile.

All better now.

I still don’t understand what ‘delisting’ is. I put in terms like Lincoln MKZ eric peters and your review of the 2014 model is first match, 2013 second match. With just lincoln mkz review 2014, your review on this site is the last link on the third page.

Clearly the google spider is crawling through your site and indexing it.

Ed but trolls can be found everywhere just check out the comments section of the Daily Mail online in the UK.

reg; “Eric does not talk on cell phones”

Pissing into the wind.

All communications are recorded, land line, cell ph., CB/Ham/emergency radio, and even short range race radios and air and marine communications, whether digital or analog. Even voice in sensitive areas of interest or just fishing operations.

So Eric and all, might as well utilize the available and convenient technology and choose your words and phrasing carefully, if need be.

Like an IRS filing, you will only attract attention if you use key words or attract attention for other reasons, like those whose ideas threaten the state. Free thinkers… be wary. Mindless sycophants go are of no interest as they maintain the statist state. Oop’s! used one of those key words… or three, catching you all up in the net.

And so it goes…… Sleep well

One possible avenue of revenue. There are some really excellent blogs that link here and I read a lot of their content, but for the most part they have few or zero comments.

Maybe any of them who make a $ contribution can be added to this site, or partnered with so that this becomes a mini Huffington Post

Then all us freeloaders could add comments on their sites or the Epautos hosted columns and then they too can make a few hours per dollar, and also enjoy the elation of virtual online slavery.

Take blind old curmudgeonly Fred Reed. I enjoy his writing and unvarnished demeanor to no end, but there is no way to give feedback, because he doesn’t have comments. Sure I could buy his books and donate to his Spanish paypal, but the cruel Head of my Household might start scowling, and ask a lot of statist questions, like why I don’t start sending in some overdue payments to the IRS before they put a second lien and garnishment on our children and start accepting down-payments from well-heeled Singaporean buyers who are a perfect match for some of our favorite major internal organs.

Sure there are lots of great sites connected with Lew Rockwell, but for the most part, they don’t allow comments. One of the few who does is James Altucher, but the disarmed Manhattan douchery of his clientele, rather than helping me feel free, makes me want to swim to Cuba even sooner to try to get away from this giant popsicle stand before it’s too late.

I am Goog1eMandias – look ye mighty at EweTube and despair
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3dpghfRBHE

Goog1e, USSA, Breaking Bad – All Bad Things Must Come To An End

Sure it isn’t yet another one of Google’s “updates”… i.e. Panda, etc., that’s causing havoc? I’ve heard of numerous sites getting hammered hard by the increasing absurdities Google implements. I’d suggest looking for additional revenue streams and alternative ad networks.

Thing is, it’s always changing. One has to keep up. Basic skills like logic and debugging never change but everything else does.

Hi Eric,
Personally I would tell Goo-guhl to “Kiss my fuzzy natural white ass”. I feel that their goals are very suspect at the least. Look at the Chromebook. Everything sits on their cloud. Does any thinking person want not only their mail, and searches documented and provided to the NSA/CIA/FBI/DHS/DEA/Etc… Now they want you to provide them with access to your word processing docs. Spreadsheets, budget and finance software. Every address you map, GPS location from your phone. Contact lists. Just put your entire life in their cloud! People who don’t understand computers seem to think the “Cloud” is some magic ethereal place, they don’t seem to grasp that it is just another physical drive OWNED BY SOMEONE ELSE. The owner can do anything they wish with your information.

Ethan,

“Cutting out 95% of your readers because you’re too lazy to find some real advertisers…”

That’s pretty vicious – and unfounded.

We’re not “cutting out” anyone (other than Goo-guhl). The site will remain open to everyone for as long as we can afford to do so – without any required fees. We are simply asking readers who are able – and deem it worth doing – to support us in the exactly the same way that a reader of a newspaper supports the paper by buying a copy of it. What I do here – what Dom does here – involves work as well as creative effort as much as any other venture. The difference online is that by the nature of the thing, people are free to not pay for material. That is of course their choice. We’re hoping enough people believe that freely supporting the site financially is something they wish to do. Value for value. Because they understand that it’s not reasonable to expect others to work for free.

As far as “lazy.”

You assume we have not made efforts in that direction. Your assumption is wrong. Goo-guhl has made it very difficult to successfully solicit independent advertising because virtually every company that advertises online is already signed up for Adsense. Why would they pay us say $100 a month for an ad when they can have the same ad placed via Adsense for pennies a month – not just on this site, but thousands of sites?

Once you’re big enough, of course, you can negotiate ads outside of the Goo-guhl matrix. But Goo-guhl makes it damn hard to get big enough outside of the Goo-guhl matrix!

Amen that you will not censor.

Hi Eric,

Sorry to hear about your Google issues. I found you at lrc and very glad I did. I enjoy your articles and think your idea of pitching our cattle tags (license plates) next July 4th is brilliant. I agree with the idea of a yearly fund raiser. Alex Jones has a yearly moneybomb and does quite well with it. Just a thought. I would also be up for a sticker or t-shirt or two if they were available. But overall I agree, time to toss Google in the woods. Best of luck.

I’d gladly cough up $5 a month, even if I forgot to check the blog, just to slap the goog-sters in the face.

On the other hand, I doubt I would have ever started reading if it had been subscription based when I found the site.

Tough call, but you definitely have the support to go forward with whatever you decide!

So, basically you just decided it is better to go subscription based, rather than advertising based and used the Google blacklisting as an excuse? Sorry to be so blunt, but I believe you are promoting the ideas of Liberty and Freedom, why go subscription based? Are Libertarians being pushed back into the corner again? I noticed Ron Paul charging subscription fees as well. Sadness. Don’t know what to say. You haven’t considered other options? Tried to sell stuff? I have a compromise for you. I would pay 10$ a month to keep this site open for 6mo to 1yr, to give you time to find an alternative source of revenue, if your not able to do so, then I am sorry my friend, I just don’t see paying money for it. I actually think Ron is purposely charging subscription fees to keep the audience small so it doesn’t harm his son’s campaign. He is a politician after all. Sorry about the rant, just hate to see this happening to the Liberty movement.

jason wrote, “just hate to see this happening to the Liberty movement.”

What is it exactly that you hate?
That people don’t work for free?
A lack of free services?

I think I’ve heard the free-shit army say things like that.

I just don’t see any economic sense in what you’re saying.
Enlighten me, please.

1. Doesn’t anyone find it odd that when Liberty was on the down swing, Ayn Rand was at her height? 2. Profit is subjective, it is not monetary in nature, Eric is sacrificing for the future. I think he is just panicking and looking for anything to throw at the problem. 3. The statist “elites” are trying to push us into a corner where all content must be paid for monetarily in a world where they control the currency. They will win if we fight this battle, there way. 4. You did read my post right? The part where there are other sources of revenue? Look at Lewrockwell.com, look at mises.org, whom sell things and have all kinds of advertising. The provide an amazing amount of content “free” of charge. Just saying not to be so closed minded.

Eric, have you thought about hosting your blog on the mises.org site? I believe they have excellent resources. Although….. some sites out there do make it with subscription pricing, look at Gary North. However I signed up with him for 1yr, then canceled. Don’t know how well he is doing today. Just check him out, he has the business model you are wanting to try.

Bevin, does it seem like a coincidence that the troll is on here gloating after a hijack?

Dear Ed,

“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”
— Ian Fleming

Dear Ed, Eric,

Could be more than a “lone gunman.”

One dummy to post drivel. One tech wiz for sale to hack the site.

Eric & Bevin, I doubt that particular imbecile did the hacking, but…. he enjoys the attention he gets here and has probably posted about it at other sites, such as DU or DK. That would draw more trolls and, eventually, hackers.

Anyway, I was seeing that post of his/hers as gloating over the hijack. Whoever did the hack is probably flogging his little pink weenie until it’s raw. Fuckin’ hackers and trolls. Fuck’em and feed’em fish heads.

Bevin, he actually wrote “promotes increasing danger to others”, which isn’t quite the same as your rephrasing “endangering others”. It wouldn’t matter, except for the importance of holding the moral high ground by being accurate where he is distorting; you should have used your paraphrase without the quotation marks, because those attribute that wording to him. (Even without them, I don’t think he – quite – tried to do what that paragraph of yours containing the paraphrase was describing.)

Dear Gary,

Classic parasite killing the host behavior.

The troll had to gloat, and in doing so he revealed his knowledge of the hack. Notice that he dug up a month old thread “EP Autos is Deay-ud” to gloat over.

Too wise by half, huh?

@Bevin – Good call, I did not think of that.