EPAutos is Deay-Ud

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Tits up. Done.roadkill

Something happened – we’re not sure exactly what – about two months ago. We got a notice from Goo-guhl advising us we’d been “de-listed” – for reasons never explained and which we’ve never been able to discover. Since then, although the site still comes up when you enter the URL in a search engine, our traffic (and revenue from Goo-guhl ads, the primary source of our revenue) has collapsed.

We’re talking 75 percent down. And our Google page rank is now 0.

0 out of ten.

It used to be 5.

While your humble narrator isn’t looking to get rich, he does need to pay the bills. Unfortunately, things are slipping very close to the point of costing me money to keep this site up. As an example, the meager earnings from Goo-guhl to date this month have only – and just barely – covered the cost of our servers. I still have not paid the taxes I am compelled to pay (including my 15 percent self-employed FICA “contribution”) nor have I paid EPautos’ web master, Dom – who handles all the technical/site maintenance stuff here.

We have tried everything we can think of to placate Goo-guhl, but it’s impossible to know whether they’ve been placated or even what it would take to placate them . . . because they won’t tell us anything. Just form letters and generic auto-responses. There’s no one – no human being – we can call to discuss the matter with. All we do know is that whatever we’ve done – and we’ve done a lot – has had no effect. This site went from being successful – and growing – to kaput, just like that.

Like a switch was thrown.

I want very much to keep on keeping on – to not have to go back to doing other things –  but the current situation is on the verge of not being viable. So, we are giving serious thought to the following – and are announcing it publicly, both to inform our regulars about what’s happened (and why) and also to solicit their input:

* Option One: Stay the course, but go subscription-based.

We get rid of all Goo-guhl ads.  Throw Goo-guhl in the woods. The site becomes Goo-guhl free. The catch is to do this, we must convince a sufficient number of regular readers to support the site financially. We’d need enough coming in to cover our fixed costs (servers, computers, taxes etc.) as well as minimally compensate the people who produce the site’s material (that’s me) and handle the day-to-day operations (that’s Dom). If just 70 EPAutos regulars tossed $25 a month each our way, we’d be good. Thousands of people visit the site every day. All we need is for 5 percent to support the site financially.

If they did, problem solved.

You can donate via Pay Pal in c/o EPautos@aol.com

Or – for those who hate using credit cards/paypal: Send us a check in c/o EPautos at the following

EPautos.com

721 Hummingbird Lane SE

Copper Hill, VA 24079

If we get enough of you pitch in, we’ll ditch the ads (and Goo-guhl) and keep on keepin’ on as a user-supported site.

If not…

* Option Two: We close shop and start over.

EPautos goes away. We start over – from scratch. With a new URL and a new name – and try to rebuild. With a new URL and site name, we would not be blacklisted – at least initially – by Goo-guhl. We might be able to get back to making enough money from Goo-guhl ads to survive.

The problem with this option is that it’s nuclear. We will lose literally everything we’ve built up in terms of name recognition (as well as the backlog of posts) over the course of the past four years.

We may never be able to get back to where we’d been under the EPautos label.

I much prefer Option One – but, things are becoming desperate. I feel terrible about Dom working a second full-time job for next-to-no-pay. And it’s increasingly hard for me to justify to myself the amount of time and effort I put into a site that seems to have been fatally wounded in a way I can’t even identify – much less do anything about – by a monolithic corporate cartel that won’t even deign to communicate with me.

So, I put it you:

What shall we do?

Thanks for helping me get things to where they were. I’m just sorry about where they are now.

-Eric

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eric

Author of "Automotive Atrocities" and "Road Hogs" (MBI). Currently living amongst the Edentulites in rural SW Virginia. 

  409 comments for “EPAutos is Deay-Ud

  1. mike wigley
    August 16, 2013 at 11:13 pm

    A petition to Google? I would be happy to endorse. Love your site.
    Otherwise, Option 1 for me.

    • August 16, 2013 at 11:31 pm

      Thanks, Mike!

      Fingers crossed – we’ll see how many readers think the site’s worth $25 a month…

      • G3Ken
        August 17, 2013 at 4:15 pm

        WORTH $25 per month? Yes, absolutely. Having been out of a job since 4/13/12, it’s been an uphill climb. You have helped me keep my sanity. A successful wife and not spending my prior 6 figure annual salary like most Americans, who act like drunken sailors ( I used to be one, literally, a Corpsman, in fact) kept us financially afloat.

        I finally landed a job, albeit part-time, with near full time hours, starting Monday has given me hope, along with selling my home BEFORE it was to be listed at asking price, has given me more hope. Maybe God doesn’t hate me, lol.

        All that personal nonsense aside, I would still be willing to man up for $5 per month for now, and if I can do that, so can most of your readers. Problem solved. I know it is a pathetic offer, but if that would work for you, let me know and I will begin immediately. If my situation improves, which I pray it will, I can do more, but that’s the best I can do.

        What say the rest of you? Five bucks is nothing to keep a great writer going. Let’s do it, all of us

        • August 17, 2013 at 5:08 pm

          Thanks Ken – much appreciated!

          • Patrick
            August 19, 2013 at 5:38 pm

            I’d gladly cough up $5 a month, even if I forgot to check the blog, just to slap the goog-sters in the face.

            On the other hand, I doubt I would have ever started reading if it had been subscription based when I found the site.

            Tough call, but you definitely have the support to go forward with whatever you decide!

          • August 19, 2013 at 6:50 pm

            Thanks, Patrick!

            I should have worded the initial appeal differently. We’re not going to lock people out unless they’ve supported the site financially. We’re just hoping enough people will freely support the site to cover our nut.

      • Frank
        August 19, 2013 at 5:03 pm

        Just heard of your site for the first time today on Lew Rockwell. It would be interesting to know if you have a legal case against google. Have you considered suing them? You have nothing to lose and if what you say is 100% correct then doesn’t google owe you at least a response as to why they delisted you? Best of luck

        • August 19, 2013 at 6:52 pm

          Hi Frank,

          Good to have you with us! If you like what you read, please tell friends and family and recommend they visit also. The more the merrier – and the easier it’ll be to end-run the Evil Empire (Google).

      • Mr T
        August 19, 2013 at 9:47 pm

        So, do I understand that it’s Google or nothing? What about alternative advertising – like yahoo? Not that I don’t think you’re worth paying for, but if whoever is after you labels you a terrorist, then those who contribute to you will get caught up in their net as well. Ok, I’m in.

        • August 19, 2013 at 11:26 pm

          Hi Mr. T –

          No, we just threw Google in the woods – and are hoping we can make up the revenue via reader support.

          Thanks very much for yours!

          • jason
            August 20, 2013 at 4:15 am

            So, basically you just decided it is better to go subscription based, rather than advertising based and used the Google blacklisting as an excuse? Sorry to be so blunt, but I believe you are promoting the ideas of Liberty and Freedom, why go subscription based? Are Libertarians being pushed back into the corner again? I noticed Ron Paul charging subscription fees as well. Sadness. Don’t know what to say. You haven’t considered other options? Tried to sell stuff? I have a compromise for you. I would pay 10$ a month to keep this site open for 6mo to 1yr, to give you time to find an alternative source of revenue, if your not able to do so, then I am sorry my friend, I just don’t see paying money for it. I actually think Ron is purposely charging subscription fees to keep the audience small so it doesn’t harm his son’s campaign. He is a politician after all. Sorry about the rant, just hate to see this happening to the Liberty movement.

          • August 20, 2013 at 11:01 am

            Jason,

            No – we simply asked the readers who can to help support the site financially. That’s all.

            Google blacklisting us is not an “excuse.” It’s a reason. There is a difference.

          • DownshiftFast5to1
            August 20, 2013 at 4:31 am

            jason wrote, “just hate to see this happening to the Liberty movement.”

            What is it exactly that you hate?
            That people don’t work for free?
            A lack of free services?

            I think I’ve heard the free-shit army say things like that.

            I just don’t see any economic sense in what you’re saying.
            Enlighten me, please.

          • jason
            August 20, 2013 at 5:15 am

            1. Doesn’t anyone find it odd that when Liberty was on the down swing, Ayn Rand was at her height? 2. Profit is subjective, it is not monetary in nature, Eric is sacrificing for the future. I think he is just panicking and looking for anything to throw at the problem. 3. The statist “elites” are trying to push us into a corner where all content must be paid for monetarily in a world where they control the currency. They will win if we fight this battle, there way. 4. You did read my post right? The part where there are other sources of revenue? Look at Lewrockwell.com, look at mises.org, whom sell things and have all kinds of advertising. The provide an amazing amount of content “free” of charge. Just saying not to be so closed minded.

            Eric, have you thought about hosting your blog on the mises.org site? I believe they have excellent resources. Although….. some sites out there do make it with subscription pricing, look at Gary North. However I signed up with him for 1yr, then canceled. Don’t know how well he is doing today. Just check him out, he has the business model you are wanting to try.

          • August 20, 2013 at 10:57 am

            Hi Jason,

            We’re not opposed to advertising – so long as it’s not in any way mixed with editorial content – and so long as it’s not Google advertising.

            If we can make it work with a mix of ads and reader support, great!

            Just so we can make it work.

            PS: I don’t agree with you that it’s playing their game for readers to support a publication financially (online or otherwise). It is an exchange of value. No different, in principle, than me paying the guy who put up the drywall in my basement. He did something I valued – and which I would never expect him to do for free.

            Writing takes work, too, you know. So does editing. So does formatting. If you don’t believe the end product is of value to you, then of course paying for it would be silly. But if you value it, then compensating those who worked to provide it is appropriate. That is the very essence of free exchange, as I see it. It has to work both ways. Expecting another person to provide value at his expense, the opposite of that.

      • Murphy
        September 3, 2013 at 6:12 pm

        I wouldbe very curious to see what the reason Google’s blacklist would do, maybe pay a lawyer, or have a reader or friend who is an attorney, send a formal letter. Since Google ads are THE key net based revenue for most sites, access to them is not necessarily a right, but while complying with terms of service, to be arbitrarily denied access and having revenue shut down should constitute somekind of contractual violation or tort with definite, provable economic harm, harm to reputation, and all kinds of actionable reasons to sue. It would be worth investigating. If google turns itself into an avenue for business, and a company trusts them for the basis of a business model, and operates in accord with policies, being de-listed and having all revenue taken away is not justifiable if Google continues to do business without either redress, compensation, or at least a reason. Theoretically then, Google could simply let ANY customer build a large business, and then extort said customer by de-listing them taking it away and destroying their economic model. I have no idea how much the law might compel them to provide a service to an individual account, but there may well be some remedy.

        That all aside, it is dangerous to go subscription. New readers are highly unlikely to be attracted to your site. I often just ignore places that even require me to sign up to access their information without a compelling reason. I do not want to register, be tracked, let alone pay for other people’s opinions. Fred Reed knows this, and recognizes that as a rule, no one asks him to write, or to access his personal pinions, though those of us who have followed him often find it compelling to return again and again. Had I had to pay to do so initially, I would never have learned who he is.

        If you use the subscription model, think aboutit like this…how much for your site, how much for LewRockwell, how much for Fred Reed, Gizmodo, Fark, Strikethe Root, Amren, Worldnetdaily, and gods knows who.

        While I do recognize the information you provide is often useful, or at least interesting, it is opinion, and especially the comments are invective laced and often full of ignorance as much as they are likely to be sage. I recognize the issues are sometimes emotional, but long ago, I offered to share some information I learned via DARPA, and well…the reaction to the idea that I might know something that those who criticized did not even bother to check into, the ad hominem attacks on organizations, and so on were just baffling and disconcerting. I imagine that when it comes to hearing other people spout off, the subscription value is limited excepot for people who are regularly committed to reading AND commenting, arguing, treating the comments as a message board. It would certainly not attract new readers because I will venture that not one person in 100 having to access and subscribe, even just register, to read an article, will complete the process rather than look for information elsewhere. The opinion is not new information unavailable elsewhere or of definitive use like a technical site. If I had to pay, directly, for every single web page service I wanted to access, I would end up unable to afford it. The Net model HAS to work like a library, and the base of people willing to pay for accessto opinions is small, except when regarding people who, through fame and or high expertise, are afforded a high value to their opinions..usually in relation to specific subjects, not “everything” under the sun, such as political rants. Slag me off if you want. I noted that I could not give the truth away to people whose minds made them full of cognitive dissonance and who rejected things out of ignorance, I sincerely doubt I could have charged for it. The large base of readers who access this site…and comment…because it is free, would cease to do so on a paid basis. I doubt half of the people who promise to pay would, when the chips are down. This is the nature of the business. If you can make it work despite this, more power to you. One thing I note is some places, like rexresearch.com, make their info and site accessible for free, but have such a base of material they charge for a disc of their archived materials, which are considerable, interesting, and useful to researchers. About every six months or a year, if there appear to be significant additions, I just do buy a disc and peruse it at liesure, at 13 dollars or so a pop, which, sans postage, means about ten dollars profit each time. I do not know if anyone would pay for the opinion, because it is historical and technical information I access to tie into that DARPA revealed material that this site’s readers so loudly denounced before I gave up, but the model pays his costs of site ownership at least.

        Whenever I decide to be a purveyor of slander, libel, filth, and lies, using the web as my venue for same, I will not depend on paid traffic, because there has to be a very limited and specific needs based market for such a model.

      • Ernie Hopkins
        September 3, 2013 at 11:29 pm

        Get something headed your way this month. Can’t promise every month but will do as can. Feel your pain. I think the entire liberty movement is getting hammered one way or another. You are one of the best, damn sure don’t want to lose you.

        • September 4, 2013 at 10:52 am

          Thank you, Ernie!

          The fact that people are stepping up to keep this site afloat encourage me that much more is possible beyond merely keeping a web site afloat. The day is coming, I believe, when we’ll all need to step up to cover each others’ asses – our very lives.

          The dilemma is this: How do you get like-minded people together for that purpose?

      • clover
        September 28, 2013 at 9:47 am

        I think it is worth closing all together. You get rid of thousands of lies each month. Google is smart dropping sites that promote drunken driving, promote beating up on police and a site that promotes increasing danger to others.Clover

        • September 28, 2013 at 10:27 am

          Dear clover,

          I think it is worth closing all together. You get rid of thousands of lies each month. Google is smart dropping sites that promote drunken driving, promote beating up on police and a site that promotes increasing danger to others.

          You know what? I’m really glad you said that!

          People at this website are merely talking with each other in cyberspace. They are merely typing on their keyboards. They are not on the highways. How can they possibly be “endangering others?”

          Yet you let slip the fact that you do not merely want to stop people from speeding on the highways. You even want to stop people from talking about speeding on cyberspace!

          What kind of a sick mind operates like that?

          In a moment of Schadenfreude, you revealed your true nature. You are a totalitarian control freak, unwilling to tolerate dissent.

          It’s pretty obvious that if you had the power, there is no limit to the brutality you would eagerly inflict upon others who defied your will. If we didn’t know what you were before, we certainly know now.

          • Ed
            September 28, 2013 at 11:58 am

            Bevin, does it seem like a coincidence that the troll is on here gloating after a hijack?

          • eric
            September 28, 2013 at 7:54 pm

            Hi Ed,

            I had the same nagging thought. The only thing that argues against this is the cement-headed stupidity of Clover. He barely has enough firepower upstairs to type out a single sentence that makes any sense at all. Could he possibly be capable of hacking a web site?

          • September 28, 2013 at 12:25 pm

            Dear Ed,

            “Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”
            — Ian Fleming

          • September 28, 2013 at 10:53 pm

            Dear Ed, Eric,

            Could be more than a “lone gunman.”

            One dummy to post drivel. One tech wiz for sale to hack the site.

          • Ed
            September 29, 2013 at 1:00 am

            Eric & Bevin, I doubt that particular imbecile did the hacking, but…. he enjoys the attention he gets here and has probably posted about it at other sites, such as DU or DK. That would draw more trolls and, eventually, hackers.

            Anyway, I was seeing that post of his/hers as gloating over the hijack. Whoever did the hack is probably flogging his little pink weenie until it’s raw. Fuckin’ hackers and trolls. Fuck’em and feed’em fish heads.

          • September 29, 2013 at 3:51 am

            Bevin, he actually wrote “promotes increasing danger to others”, which isn’t quite the same as your rephrasing “endangering others”. It wouldn’t matter, except for the importance of holding the moral high ground by being accurate where he is distorting; you should have used your paraphrase without the quotation marks, because those attribute that wording to him. (Even without them, I don’t think he – quite – tried to do what that paragraph of yours containing the paraphrase was describing.)

        • eric
          September 28, 2013 at 11:08 am

          Poor ol’ Clover!

          Guess what? Our numbers are way up since we ditched Google. And reader support is keeping us going just fine.

          Maybe you should buy a T-shirt?

        • dom
          September 28, 2013 at 11:00 pm

          Clover, this most recent hack indeed has been the worst and will take me the longest to fix. You can be assured this site will never close down though.

        • Garysco
          September 29, 2013 at 12:26 am

          Define : pretzel logic. The only place someone will pay attention to you and you want it shut down.

          • September 29, 2013 at 1:55 am

            Dear Gary,

            Classic parasite killing the host behavior.

          • Ed
            September 29, 2013 at 3:09 am

            The troll had to gloat, and in doing so he revealed his knowledge of the hack. Notice that he dug up a month old thread “EP Autos is Deay-ud” to gloat over.

            Too wise by half, huh?

          • Garysco
            September 29, 2013 at 10:10 am

            @Bevin – Good call, I did not think of that.

  2. Volos
    August 16, 2013 at 11:25 pm

    Under the condition that the public still be able to view the posts and discussions here, whether or not non-subscribers are allowed to post, I would be happy to provide a monthly contribution. Assuming that the asked for contribution is in the neighborhood of $25, I’m not trying to be cheap, but times are tough and getting tougher.

    The regulars here are already either enlightened to a reasonable extent or never will be. It is those that are on the fence or in disagreement but open minded enough to apply a logical reasoning process to the arguments presented here that need (and I mean NEED) to read these posts.

    That being said, if it becomes necessary to start over I think the lot of us, with the help of other libertarian sites like lewrockwell.com, could get traffic up rather quickly. But it may take a considerable amount of time to reach the popularity of EPAutos.

    • August 16, 2013 at 11:31 pm

      Hi Volos,

      Yes, everything would still be visible – and everyone could still participate. We’re just trying to get back on our feet, financially. I hate having to ask, but Goo-guhl has forced our hand.

  3. zach
    August 16, 2013 at 11:52 pm

    I’d do $5-10 a month.

    • August 16, 2013 at 11:57 pm

      Thanks, Zach – it would be much appreciated!

      Dom and I are hoping we can do an end-run around Goo-guhl this way. It won’t take much. Just 60 or so people willing to support the site. It doesn’t need to be the same 60 people every month. Just so long as about that many – out of the thousands who regularly come here every day – are willing to throw us a bone once a month….

      I would not ask – I hate having to ask – but Goo-guhl has boxed us in.

      • Steve C
        August 19, 2013 at 1:51 pm

        Hi Eric,

        I love your site although I am not a “regular visitor” I do stop by every now and then to see what is up and it would be a shame for it to come down and have to start over again. However If you could dump Goo-guhl it might be worth it.

        In any case just a thought… instead of having a monthly fee where you rely on a certain amount of $$ from a certain amount of people each month, maybe folks would be more comfortable with a once a year fundraiser??

        Of the thousand of people who visit I think most would be willing to contribute a few dollars $5-10 once a year rather than having to rely on $25 a month from 60 people and unless there is some unexpected cost I think it would add more certainty on your end.

        Up in Boston where I am from there is a very small radio station WJIB, that does this. They play a certain type of music the owner does not like the type advertising that he could attract so his station is completely commercial free . He costs out how much he needs for the year (usually about $70,000) and once a year he has a fundraising drive and asks folks to send in a few bucks. Once he hits his target (usually within a month or two ) he stops the fundraising for the year. He calls it “listener sponsored radio” and he has been doing it for the past 6-7 years.

        Anyway just a thought….

        • August 19, 2013 at 2:39 pm

          Hi Steve,

          Thanks for the kind words – and the idea!

          It’s definitely worth considering.

          • luddite
            August 19, 2013 at 3:38 pm

            Hi Eric,

            Sorry to hear about your Google issues. I found you at lrc and very glad I did. I enjoy your articles and think your idea of pitching our cattle tags (license plates) next July 4th is brilliant. I agree with the idea of a yearly fund raiser. Alex Jones has a yearly moneybomb and does quite well with it. Just a thought. I would also be up for a sticker or t-shirt or two if they were available. But overall I agree, time to toss Google in the woods. Best of luck.

          • August 19, 2013 at 7:01 pm

            Thanks, Luddite!

            So far, so good.

            We’ll see what happens!

      • Cynthia Warren
        August 19, 2013 at 2:38 pm

        Eric, my budget is pretty tight especially since signing up for Dr. Paul’s new channel last week but I will send you what I can in a check.

        • August 19, 2013 at 2:57 pm

          Thank you, Cynthia!

          It’s just a matter of volume more than anything else. We have the readership. If enough step up, it will only take a few bucks a month from each – literally, Starbucks coffee money – to make this work.

  4. August 17, 2013 at 12:08 am

    Although I prefer the principles and business model of option 1, it’s not something I personally could help carry. That’s not just a question of financial resources, but a question of the payment methods available to me. Ultimately, I would need to make an internet payment at some point in the chain, almost certainly involving a credit card, but I don’t have a credit card because of conscientious objections to them and because they are risky for me as I am at high risk of personal trouble from faulty data matching (I’m not the only person with my first name, last name, middle initial and date of birth in this part of Australia; in the past the government needed convincing that I hadn’t left the country without telling them of the trip, particularly since they had closed their feedback telephone number). I can’t even pay my ISP electronically as my account details go missing, and that sometimes even happens when I pay cash into the ISP’s own bank directly. I don’t know how many other people would face material obstacles of that sort to option 1.

    • August 17, 2013 at 12:26 am

      Hi PM,

      Actually, we can take personal checks, too. Just make them out to EPautos and send as follows:

      EPautos
      721 Hummingbird Lane SE
      Copper Hill, VA 24079

      ICH and several other solid sites manage to survive on reader support – and without genuflecting to Goo-guhl.

      Dammit, I hope we can, too!

      • August 17, 2013 at 1:55 am

        What cheques? Not only does my bank account not offer them, but also there would be large fees and exchange rate losses incurred in sending you one if I had one or in my getting you some sort of US$ payment order. That would also apply if I sent you one of my few remaining cheques on my U.K. bank account (they no longer provide cheque books either).

        The point stands. There are material obstacles to payment methods, so I simply wouldn’t bother. Which is part of how they want the system’s incentives to operate, I suppose.

        • August 17, 2013 at 10:08 am

          Just a suggestion, PM.

          I understand your points. We appreciate your support – including just being a regular here!

    • Eric_G
      August 18, 2013 at 2:18 am

      In the USA we can go to the grocery store and buy a visa/MC gift card. You’ll need to register it at a web site, but I’ve used Mr. Tom Collins as a name and no one cared. Yes, you’ll need to pay a few bucks for the privilege.

      However, I don’t mind paying bank fees if they are justified. I know that’s an unpopular POV, but as a libertarian I think one of the major downfalls of modern banking is the blurring the lines of demand vs savings accounts, much of which is driven by “free” services like checking. The cost of a gift card is justifiable to me because it allows for a (mostly) anonymous transaction using secured cash.

      • August 19, 2013 at 5:53 pm

        Eric_G, why would you have to register? I have purchased and received many gift cards and have never registered any. I do not even sign them (the Visa, etc. (ones) and I have never had a problem using them.

    • GJT
      August 19, 2013 at 4:31 am

      I use one of those Load&Go VISA (debit) cards that they sell at Australia Post shops, PML. No link to my name or address or other particulars (although if the domestic Gestapo/NKVD wanted to trace ownership I’m certain they would just grab the CCTV from the AustPost shop where the thing was bought).

      I think they cost about $7 up front, and I use them for ALL my periodic payments nowadays… and it’s linked to Paypal and eBay, too.

      • August 19, 2013 at 10:55 am

        I shall have to check those cards out to see if they also fall foul of the issues that triggered my conscientious objections to credit cards.

        On the Savage Club, it’s still there – I had lunch there today – but I was under the impression that you were still circulating in France. Let me know as, when and if you are ever in these parts (I still have the gmail address you know of).

      • Not Unlike PM Laurence
        August 19, 2013 at 9:08 pm

        The only reason to register them is to have provable tracking record of your use, like when you make payments on medical bills or such. If you want total anonymity, though, just buy and use.

    • GJT
      August 19, 2013 at 4:32 am

      Oh, also, while I think of it… long time no Savage. Fortunately the Wig’s Cellar sells Sloe Gin.

    • Not Unlike PM Laurence
      August 19, 2013 at 9:02 pm

      P.M.,

      I, too, do not have a credit card, per se, for the same reason. I also refuse to do personal business with a bank. What I discovered here in the Land of Debris and Home of the Depraved is that almost all internet payments can be done with a pre-paid gift card from Visa or MasterCard. I get them with cash at the grocery store, register them on line, and away I go.

      I only get the one-time-use gift cards, not the reload types. You can register them to a name and email account you set up just for that purpose and use an address you aren’t too sure exists (unless you’re going to take delivery of goods you order). This has been a very workable solution for me.

      The only problems I’ve encountered have been that if I want to buy something online that costs more than the maximum amount I can get a card for ($500), I have to end up calling the seller anyway to see if they can take 2 cards. Also (and this is where it probably won’t work for you if your only goal was to support Eric’s site), I can’t donate to, or buy from, places where the payment collection facility’s physical address is out of the country.

      I don’t know if any of that was useful to you, but it might be for others who are thinking of cutting the banker umbilical before they force the cashless system upon us all.

  5. Keith Pellig
    August 17, 2013 at 12:32 am

    Eric,

    This news is devastating. I hate to sound like I’m negotiating, but $25 is slightly high. I did just buy a new GT-86, after all. $5, or maybe $10, and I would be on board. I’m not saying no, outright, to $25. If that’s the route you decide to go I’ll have to make a decision then. But, this website is definitely worth contributing to. The automotive commentary from an anarchist/libertarian perspective is exactly what I want in a website.

    • August 17, 2013 at 12:35 am

      Thanks, Keith – and, anything you can manage would be much appreciated.

      I referenced $25 because that would reduce the number of people we’d need to chip in. But the ideal scenario would be a third of our readers tossing $5 a month our way.

      That would fix all our issues – and end-run Goo-guhl!

      • Hot Rod
        August 17, 2013 at 5:13 am

        Hi Eric,

        Sorry to hear of the misfortune. I’ll also chip in $5.00/mos. I’d argue volume with smaller donations myself, you’d be less dependent that way on any one subscriber going sour grapes on something that might offend and thus destroying your financing. Also, the demand curve would go up on the donations at a smaller $5.00 rate.

        Overall I think this is why many libertarian sites have closed off the comment sections, they don’t want statements that would offend the advertisers. But could it be something more heinous? Could the government actually be involved at trying to close down your source of revenue? Maybe your site was starting to ruffle too many feathers? Then I’d would say that is not good. I think most of us on here (prior to Snowden) were kind of testing the water to see if the Orwell spy state was real. We’d say something outlandish to see if we were going to get rounded up the next day, when that didn’t happen most of us sighed a breath of fresh air that maybe we were just being paranoid about the government after all. Maybe government didn’t find us interesting and wasn’t the gorilla in our closet. But then Snowden has woken us to the dismal thought that indeed Uncle Sam is very intently watching. Gulp…yah know those re-education camps..well we are probably all on the list of first trainees (smile).

        The problem is that if it is the second issue (government) indirectly forcing Google’s hand to close you down, then we’d probably all better getting our plane tickets to Chile right now. I hate to say it Eric but me personally I think your whole site is monitored by Big Brother. I think Edward Snowden only knew or spoke half the power of NSA in eavesdropping. Probably the other half is in destroying any contradictions to their official stories. Most everyone in here doesn’t believe in 911 and other government fabrications they call news, thats the kind of stuff they want to shut down if not just passive listeners but active destroyers at NSA.

        As a further test:
        I guess the only thing one could try other than the donations, is to rename Eric Peters url. Try to keep down the comments that might offend Google or advertisers, and still keep bashing the government. It would mean censoring the comments even more than just cutting off the clovers. You know like when I said that working with minorities in equal employment laws is gritting to whites because its expected we just take it. Well thats the kind of stuff you’d have to remove in comments. I’d understand, but other more outspoken people on here might be put off. You’d probably not like yourself either, but at least you could keep bashing the government. Then if you got closed down again I’d say time to move on to another country, as they probably find reason to take you hostage and not just the economic shut you down. Could sincerely be a shot over the bow. If you move, I’ll probably join you there, you know another crap hole government just like this one. I’ve always found last names kind of indicative of a man’s future. Poor Snowden….looks like he is going to be snowed in Russia. If what appears to have set in as a police state of this once great freedom loving republic is true, then we will be much worse off than Snowden if we stay situated.

        I guess you’ll have to let us in on what model you ultimately choose based on the suggestions in here.

        HR

        • August 17, 2013 at 9:50 am

          Morning, HR!

          One thing we won’t do is censor comments – or what I write. If it gets to that point, I’d rather hang up my keyboard and pick up my wrenches – or something.

          We agree it’s very possible this site has been “targeted for Termination” on account of the views – the information – available here. I which case, it is a badge of honor, I suppose.

          We are – to quote Apollo 13 – working the problem….

          • August 19, 2013 at 6:00 pm

            Amen that you will not censor.

  6. August 17, 2013 at 12:55 am

    I recommend Option 2. Lew Rockwell will have you back in touch with most of your readership very quickly. And I’m not a tech weenie, but am very surprised to hear that there is no way to transfer this site’s content to your new site. Is that really true??

    You have this “dual readership” challenge. One segment is interested in cars. The other, apparently larger, segment is interested in reading and sharing anarcho-libertarian, anti-government sentiments…..in a rather overstated style. ( It was probably the over exuberant comments from this segment that got you “de-googled.”)

    These two segments are by no means mutually exclusive. But it is unlikely a reader in either one of these camps would pay to read a lot of content that does not address their core interest.

  7. Ed
    August 17, 2013 at 1:11 am

    I agree with Mike. LRC is a great gateway site and the links to here would keep you on the map.

    I did duke a few donations here and there before, but haven’t lately, mainly because of connection issues that made the site inaccessible to me for awhile. I still check in from time to time and sometimes I can view and post, sometimes not.

  8. August 17, 2013 at 1:17 am

    Eric, I don’t understand, this site is built on WordPress which is free. A domain is $12 a year. What server costs are you paying? I have 4 professional websites that don’t cost me a cent outside of yearly domain fees.

    That being said, Goo-guhl is no the only advertiser in the world, my account was banned a year ago. If your state taxes haven’t shut down Amazon Associates yet you can use that like Lew Rockwell does. Their site also uses affiliate ads direct from the advertiser themselves too (the top right corner stuff). There are TONS of alternatives to Goo-guhl.

    You can also create a store with t-shirts and cool stuff like Art Of Manliness, I’m just not seeing the subscription thing as a good idea. $25 for a blog and car reviews? No offense, but there’s no way I’m paying that. I didn’t think it was worth it to pay for the RonPaulChannel. Surely there are other options.

    • August 17, 2013 at 10:15 am

      We have a serious server – which is necessary if you have any significant traffic. These are not cheap – but they are essential. We have upgraded servers continuously as traffic has increased. This was no problem, because ad revenue grew along with it. But now it is a problem, because revenue has declined.

      Also, I have to pay the web master. He doesn’t work for free – nor should he. He spends several hours a day – every day – monitoring the site and dealing with issues as they arise. And they arise on a daily basis, as is the case with any web site that has traffic. Dom’s on call 24-7. He does this for a living.

      How about me? This isn’t a hobby. I make my living as a professional writer. I spend most of the day – every day – on this site, producing original, honest-info articles (3-4 per week, usually) and also responding to reader questions and comments. Like most people who are not independently wealthy, I have to earn a living. If I am able to do so via spending most of my day – every day – here, then I will. If not, then I have no real choice but to devote my time to other (paying) pursuits.

      It’s just that simple.

      Either the content of this site is worth supporting, or it’s not. The readers will answer that question.

      I’ll leave it to them.

      • Ed
        August 17, 2013 at 1:06 pm

        To me, the content of the site is worth supporting, but the way the comments section is threaded makes it extremely unwieldy to read and comment. Some revamping would seem to be in order if the site were to be a subscription funded enterprise.

        For whatever reason, the slow loading I was experiencing which kept me from trying to read and comment has disappeared along with Googleads input. Why not put a big ol’ red Donate button right on the page where it’s visible outside the navbar?

        I remember that when I wanted to donate, the donate button was something I had to hunt for. If it was a big red button I would have seen it right off. Maybe even using reverse psychology would work, like having a line under the button saying ” WHATEVER YOU DO, DON’T MASH THIS BUTTON”.

        Hell, that would probably work like rats a’fightin.

        Anyway, fuck Google. I don’t click on their ads, and don’t know of anybody who does. I do, however donate to sites where open comment is allowed and whose content I like.

        • August 17, 2013 at 1:08 pm

          Thanks, Ed!

          Also, you’ve made some very helpful suggestions, especially the one about making the Donate button more obvious!

      • Tomas
        August 18, 2013 at 2:10 pm

        Being in the industry, a dedicated server with a high quality host costs about $1100/mo. Someone with a popular site (aka requiring extra resources) might easily double, triple, or more that cost. If you pay traffic fees on top, that can get even more pricey. All of that traffic, comments, ads, etc… doesn’t just work perfectly all of the time, someone needs to support it, when it breaks, not when convenient. A professionally run operation costs money. That can come from subscriptions, product sales, or ads. Oh, and Eric probably wants a paycheck for his efforts too, you know, that whole free enterprise thingy. Free is great for his audience. we get to enjoy the fruits of his labor, and Eric gets paid for his trouble via the advertising. Now that google has decided that epautos is persona non grata, free isn’t an option as things stand. Side note, with google it is about impossible to hunt down a human to help you sort out issues. I had check in hand for them, about $3500 and it took weeks to track down the human to help me understand how to give them money. Sad commentary on business in the Internet age. Shining example of a faceless entity, that unfortunately, many of your favorite websites depend upon for their very survival. If Eric poked a stick in the wrong eye, and this is the result, here, here! Says something about the don’t be evil crowd for sure. Apparently they don’t think censorship is evil, as evidenced by past actions. Google worships profits and nothing else, truly a soulless entity that is capable of so much more besides a tired tag line vaguely reminiscent of past sociopaths. Publicly traded companies are the ruin of this great nation as morality is shown the door in the name of skimming another penny off of Joe Sixpack.

        Once you determine a course of action (and option 1seems the only viable one, option 2, who is to say after you get it all running again the same thing won’t happen yet again?) please let us know. I appreciate your work and will figure out a way to contribute financially to your efforts.

        • August 18, 2013 at 2:18 pm

          Hi Tomas,

          That’s it in a nutshell.

          To do this – professionally – isn’t free (or cheap).

          The upside – at least theoretically – is that we have a more-than-large-enough audience to cover our expenses at very little expense to the individuals supporting us. If enough of them step up.

          A couple hundred people would be plenty – and each of them wouldn’t need to send us more than stop-at-Starbucks money, either.

          I’m hoping this will happen. Not only for the obvious reason – that it would make this web site solvent or at least self-supporting. But more than anything else, because it would be an up yours! to Goo-guhl.

          • BobHartley
            August 19, 2013 at 3:42 pm

            Hi Eric,
            Personally I would tell Goo-guhl to “Kiss my fuzzy natural white ass”. I feel that their goals are very suspect at the least. Look at the Chromebook. Everything sits on their cloud. Does any thinking person want not only their mail, and searches documented and provided to the NSA/CIA/FBI/DHS/DEA/Etc… Now they want you to provide them with access to your word processing docs. Spreadsheets, budget and finance software. Every address you map, GPS location from your phone. Contact lists. Just put your entire life in their cloud! People who don’t understand computers seem to think the “Cloud” is some magic ethereal place, they don’t seem to grasp that it is just another physical drive OWNED BY SOMEONE ELSE. The owner can do anything they wish with your information.

          • August 19, 2013 at 6:59 pm

            Hi Bob,

            Amen.

            This may turn out to be a good thing. Divorcing ourselves from any business connection with Google, I mean. At minimum, their business ethics are suspect. Opacity and unresponsiveness are not my idea of positive attributes in a business partner. Imagine going into business with someone – but they refused to tell you how much you’d earn, or how what you earn relates to what you’ve produced. They just pay what they decide to pay. Who’d agree to such terms?

            Not me.

            Throw ‘em in the woods!

        • August 19, 2013 at 1:05 pm

          There is a lot of ignoring of what I just said. How many professionally done websites can run so much better without paid subscriptions? How many newspapers have either been shut down or got took serious flak/losses for going to the paid model when there are LITERALLY an infinite amount of REAL solutions to this problem?

          Cutting out 95% of your readers because you’re too lazy to find some real advertisers or use one of the 100’s of adwords alternatives that pay just as much? Hell it will be more than 95% that you cut out, I can guarantee that. Nobody pays for blogs except people who don’t know any better.

          I’m a programmer and this is similar to the way Apple acts with the lack of open source/free software and development options. (As opposed to Google and Microsoft) Their programmers and developers are seen as the people you avoid and love to hate because they act so high and mighty. Like somehow they are the exception and NEED to be exclusive in order to maintain their “brand”. It’s a load of shit is what it is. Same thing with subscription blogs. #joke

          • August 19, 2013 at 2:54 pm

            Ethan,

            “Cutting out 95% of your readers because you’re too lazy to find some real advertisers…”

            That’s pretty vicious – and unfounded.

            We’re not “cutting out” anyone (other than Goo-guhl). The site will remain open to everyone for as long as we can afford to do so – without any required fees. We are simply asking readers who are able – and deem it worth doing – to support us in the exactly the same way that a reader of a newspaper supports the paper by buying a copy of it. What I do here – what Dom does here – involves work as well as creative effort as much as any other venture. The difference online is that by the nature of the thing, people are free to not pay for material. That is of course their choice. We’re hoping enough people believe that freely supporting the site financially is something they wish to do. Value for value. Because they understand that it’s not reasonable to expect others to work for free.

            As far as “lazy.”

            You assume we have not made efforts in that direction. Your assumption is wrong. Goo-guhl has made it very difficult to successfully solicit independent advertising because virtually every company that advertises online is already signed up for Adsense. Why would they pay us say $100 a month for an ad when they can have the same ad placed via Adsense for pennies a month – not just on this site, but thousands of sites?

            Once you’re big enough, of course, you can negotiate ads outside of the Goo-guhl matrix. But Goo-guhl makes it damn hard to get big enough outside of the Goo-guhl matrix!

  9. Tor Minotaur
    August 17, 2013 at 2:37 am

    The problem is connecting with those rare netizens who aren’t total deadbeats, and providing something they’re willing to pay for.
    What about a group effort to customize and then sell one of your vehicles?
    Especially one with an awesome Don’t Tread on Me Gadsen type paint job?

    Or if you listed some of your vehicles for sale on this site, I could link to the ads on Craigslist or whatever. There’s a huge market of people looking for transportation, many of whom may also be looking for liberty and not know it.

    I wonder how Radley Balko and TheAgitator is doing since he migrated over to the Huffington Post?

    Maybe if people like me dialed it down for a while, cool it with all the links that don’t make Goo-Guhl any money, it would be better for business? Since I can’t beat them, I can at least pretend to have joined them. Yay full priced capitalism and moderate safe search family values!

    FWIW this link is up at Reddit – which was co-founded by Aaron Swartz.

    http://redd.it/1kirhe Only 10 upvotes and 2 downvotes so far. Retail value of an upvote? $0.00.

    Don’t Be Accountable – Google Drops Page Rank to Zero and Delists Libertarian Website For No Reason

    If you see no evil, there don’t be no evil

    • August 17, 2013 at 10:07 am

      Huffington is a billionaire – so hopefully Radley’s getting a decent paycheck out of her! (Though I’ve heard writers complain of wretched treatment and since I have had some personal experience with Ariana, I don’t doubt these stories.)

      Don’t sweat the links, Tor – or muffle anything you write/post here. Screw Goo-guhl. I am sick of trying to appease them. In a way, they fucked up. Because had they left us with their pittance of a revenue stream, we’d probably try to abide by their terms and conditions, keep them happy. But they have taken everything away and so now they have no value to us at all. Thus, we’re free of them.

      In the woods they go!

      • Tor Minotaur
        August 18, 2013 at 3:53 pm

        Arianna sold her site for $310 million dollars to AOL and now it’s called AOL Huffington Post…

        So Arianna’s daughter Christina has been doing a lot of coke since she was 16. On AOL Huff Post, there’s an article about how disappointed she is in herself about it. Somehow they let my anti-gov comment appear in the comments of the article…

        Not only am I disappointed in failing to control myself, said Christina after further reflection, but I’m also disappointed in my society.

        I am prohibited from acting rationally and without subservience to the agendas of others. Coca leaves are just another spice or plant. Not appropriate for many people, and therefore, should only obtainable from skilled, expert specialists. There should be safeguards to discourage the processing of leaves into dangerously concentrated powders. Mechanisms to ensure they aren’t adulterated with toxins by nefarious people.

        Unfortunately, a powerful cartel prevents this happening. A gang of ruthless people who interfere with my life but provide no value and only steal from me. Brutes who threaten violence, kidnappings, and unspeakable tortures and murders. A gang called the US Government.

        A gang infiltrating everywhere with their contrived narratives. Demonizers of anything of true value that competes with their worthless product – valueless paper called federal reserve notes. Organically grown Coca leaves being voluntarily exchanged are this gangs’ worse fear. These plants represent real wealth which is easily produced by simple farmers and small purification facilities.

        To get their way, this cartel builds terrible machines and torture systems to retain their hegemony. They spread the most terrible addictions of all: Addiction to a perpetual war they call peace. Addiction to rule by demons pretending they aren’t a gang. Addiction to believing ignorance about nature is strength. Addiction to ginned-up morality theater and mob reprisals – falsely claimed to be for the victim’s own good. Addiction to calling slavery to inhuman political systems freedom.

        The reality is once these mean-spirited parasites are put back in there place, far from the decent folk found in our society, I’ll be much less powerless, impoverished, confused and paralyzed from dealing with a normally straightforward problem like Coca leaf binging.

        I’m extremely disappointed that I am forced to participate in this farcical caricature of democracy, and pledge my undying fealty to the edicts of false idols on public service pedestals who in reality have no moral right to interfere with my journey of discovery and enjoyment of this world.

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/07/christina-huffington-today-cocaine-arianna-huffington_n_3719062.html

  10. BrentP
    August 17, 2013 at 3:02 am

    What does delisting mean?
    Straight to google on a browser I don’t use for much so there shouldn’t be much tracking influence going on: auto reviews peters has ericpetersautos.com on the first page. First match for auto reviews libertarian while plain auto reviews doesn’t show it on the first seven pages. startingpage does the same for the searches, so my rarely used browser doesn’t have anything influencing the search results.

    prchecker.info shows ericpetersautos.com at 0/10 but epautos.com at 4/10

    Perhaps there was a delisting because the two go to the same place?
    What about this:
    https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/35843?hl=en

    • dom
      August 17, 2013 at 3:12 am

      We received a message from them a few months ago saying they will not be indexing our site anymore, but we could make changes and resubmit for reconsideration. We made a shitload of changes. The more changes we made, which they asked, the less money the site made. So we’ve finally completed pretty much all the shit they asked and now the site makes pretty much nothing (not even enough for two to eat at Taco Bell). We’ve had epautos pointing to ericpetersautos for a few years now. I think a lot more than just the browser being used influences returned results.

      • BrentP
        August 17, 2013 at 3:54 am

        I just wanted to eliminate tracking influences. I have tracker blockers on my main web browser but they get turned off now and then for sites to work properly.

        The pages seem to come up properly on the search engine if I give the right search terms. I wonder, is it an ad revenue problem because of blockers. I just noticed Ghostery blocks the google ads here. We are all the kind of crowd that uses these tools. I just put this site on the whitelist so google ads will go through again.

        • dom
          August 17, 2013 at 4:38 am

          It’s a way bigger issue than that. Our numbers have tanked all the way around. I’m thinking it’s a combination of factors, one of them being as simple as a slow summer.

          • MoT
            August 17, 2013 at 5:54 am

            Sure it isn’t yet another one of Google’s “updates”… i.e. Panda, etc., that’s causing havoc? I’ve heard of numerous sites getting hammered hard by the increasing absurdities Google implements. I’d suggest looking for additional revenue streams and alternative ad networks.

        • August 17, 2013 at 9:54 am

          “I just noticed Ghostery blocks the google ads here”

          There’s another ‘Net nugget I was unaware of!

          Wish I’d paid more attention to computer tech when I was younger!

          • BrentP
            August 18, 2013 at 5:09 am

            Thing is, it’s always changing. One has to keep up. Basic skills like logic and debugging never change but everything else does.

  11. Garysco
    August 17, 2013 at 3:20 am

    Shows the raw coercive power Big Brother really has these days.

    I’ll help.

    I am thinking you need to sell selected advertising to companies you personally recommend, and let your reputation and readership carry the weight (eg. checkout TheSurvivalPodcast.com) He built a substantial libertarian business model from zero based on content, marketing skills, and reputation.

    • August 17, 2013 at 9:55 am

      That is a top drawer idea, Gary.

      I’ve need to make some inquiries… meanwhile, thanks very much for your support!

  12. ozymandias
    August 17, 2013 at 4:05 am

    does that mean the ads aren’t attracting clicks anymore? you tried different ads? have ads been congruent, symbiotic (I never even notice ‘em), like for radar detectors, security devices, etc. what about reaching out to nerd gearheads you prolly know to generate hack reports for sale, maker style projects like holographic random number “license plates” (☻), etc. what about frantz oil filters? what about content connectivity to car/bike mags? petersen publishing used to have a stable full…don’t know who/what’s out there now, but the racks still seem to be stuffed.

    since gargooygle is so conspicuously uncommunicative seems the bet should be on the assumptive worst – censorship. doubling down only to sustain a second skull fracture is too costly a proposition just to prove you’re an early poster child for whats surely going to increase going forward.

    have you conferred with lrc? surely they’re on the short list for squelching. how are they maneuvering? maybe bill bonner or somebody in his outfit has some moves. gary north has said he’s had the lights turned off a couple times recently. i know the first sells products & takes donations, the second sells products, the third is a subscription…but they may have knowledge/understanding of dirty tricks, & counter tricks.

    fred reed does it, to who knows what success extent, but i think a donation model is not robust enough (with some possible rule-proving exceptions). products, services, b2b networking is necessary.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3445_162-57581733/googles-eric-schmidt-and-the-new-digital-age/

    just watched the above. eric schmidt is one of the antichristos. so’s the “lean in” chick that used to be at goog, now at facebook. most at that level prolly are.

    i don’t g (or gmail). used to use scroogle, til googhoul forced them out. using gibiru these days.

    • August 17, 2013 at 9:52 am

      Thanks, Ozzy, for the suggestions – we’ll look into ‘em!

  13. August 17, 2013 at 6:33 am

    Eric, this is the worst. :(

    I can’t offer financial support. Please believe me when I say that I would if I could.

    I do agree that you can try selling products as an alternative. Tshirts with your logo on them, Hats, etc… I own one hat, and it has a mises.org logo on the front of it!

    Advertise here. Don’t leave it to googal or anyone else to choose which ads are shown on your page. You choose which products/services you would recommend, and only show us ads for those things. That sales revenue can help. Your opinion matters to everyone here, that’s why we’re here. And when we now you hand selected an advertisement, we will take a moment to check it out.

    • August 17, 2013 at 9:46 am

      Thanks, Trocki –

      We’re working all the angles – and hopefully, something will work.

      The most frustrating aspect of this whole thing is not knowing what it is that Goo-guhl’s unhappy about. They won’t tell us – and there’s (apparently) no way to find out.

      • GW
        August 17, 2013 at 8:49 pm

        GooGuls probably unhappy about the fact(s) that you haven’t drunk the Kool-Aid, don’t toe the official govmint line and insist on pursuing facts and the truth.

        Otherwise, good luck on this issue….hopefully some of the suggestions offered here will bear fruit and let you continue this site.

        Generally, I am of the camp that a small monthly fee is probably a better route to take, say $1.99 a month and I think you can get a fair amount of buy in.

        $25 to $35 A YEAR is about the max I would want to pony up for a paid subscription to any one website.

        As much as I enjoy reading your site – there are just too many options out there to choose from, all of which are deserving of support, and many of which will eventually be faced with the same terminal type situation that you currently have.

        I feel your pain and understand that you need to make this site at least break even, BUT hypothetically speaking – if say I want to support 10 sites at $25 a month each it just becomes impossible. 10 sites at $1.99 a month is doable for many of us – at least while we still have jobs.

        Good Luck and God Bless

        • August 17, 2013 at 9:05 pm

          Thanks, GW!

          To be clear – to clarify:

          I mentioned $25 as a frame of reference, not a demand or an expected mandatory minimum. I wanted to point out that it would only take 60 or so people supporting the site to that extent to make it a going concern. But we have thousands of daily visitors (on a good day, more than 10,000 people visit EPautos). If a mere handful of them – less than 5 percent, probably – were to send in $5 or so a month, we’d be good to go.

          Put another way, if about 5 percent sent us the equivalent of one cup of Starbucks coffee every month – problem solved!

          • Tor Minotaur
            August 18, 2013 at 12:03 am

            One possible avenue of revenue. There are some really excellent blogs that link here and I read a lot of their content, but for the most part they have few or zero comments.

            Maybe any of them who make a $ contribution can be added to this site, or partnered with so that this becomes a mini Huffington Post

            Then all us freeloaders could add comments on their sites or the Epautos hosted columns and then they too can make a few hours per dollar, and also enjoy the elation of virtual online slavery.

            Take blind old curmudgeonly Fred Reed. I enjoy his writing and unvarnished demeanor to no end, but there is no way to give feedback, because he doesn’t have comments. Sure I could buy his books and donate to his Spanish paypal, but the cruel Head of my Household might start scowling, and ask a lot of statist questions, like why I don’t start sending in some overdue payments to the IRS before they put a second lien and garnishment on our children and start accepting down-payments from well-heeled Singaporean buyers who are a perfect match for some of our favorite major internal organs.

            Sure there are lots of great sites connected with Lew Rockwell, but for the most part, they don’t allow comments. One of the few who does is James Altucher, but the disarmed Manhattan douchery of his clientele, rather than helping me feel free, makes me want to swim to Cuba even sooner to try to get away from this giant popsicle stand before it’s too late.

          • August 18, 2013 at 9:55 am

            Tor, this is an excellent suggestion!

            Dom and I discussed it last night; it’s in the works.

    • ozymandias
      August 17, 2013 at 6:05 pm

      right. shoulda’ mentioned that, too. i have a drawer full of lrc t’s (which, every once in awhile will garner a shoutout from someone when they see me wearing one out in the world). have had their “tu ne cede malis” band on my wrist for years.

      flashing: remember the odd rod cards from the 70’s? i loved those when i was a kid, might make for great t’s, fride magnets, prints now – with anarcho-cap/libertarian caption upgrades. couldn’t find any images online. maybe they’re on the shelf, just waiting for a licensing deal….

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odd_Rods

      • ozymandias
        August 17, 2013 at 6:29 pm

        creative destruction (injection) is nice, but i’d rather be self-owned (blown)…or something. lol….(this is the only caption i can dredge up from memory!)

        • ozymandias
          August 17, 2013 at 7:21 pm

          youtube has everything

          • Tor Minotaur
            August 24, 2013 at 1:05 pm

            I am Goog1eMandias – look ye mighty at EweTube and despair
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3dpghfRBHE

            Goog1e, USSA, Breaking Bad – All Bad Things Must Come To An End

  14. captcow
    August 17, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    I think it’s certainly worth $25/mo but I just couldn’t swing that. I’d be in for $5, maybe more here and there. I like the merchandising idea (hats, tshirts whatever) I’d also suggest looking at survival blog, Rawles often seems to have a backlog of people wanting to advertise on his site. Whatever happens good luck, I really hope you can make it work out.

    • August 17, 2013 at 2:03 pm

      Hi Captcow –

      $5 would be great; anything would be great!

      We have the numbers. It wouldn’t take more than 5 percent of the regulars to support the site with even $5 a month. The problem is getting that 5 percent to do it.

      The Internet is a marvel – and perhaps the last real hope for resurrecting liberty by re-awakening consciousness of it. But, consolidation of advertising by Goo-guhl (and its ability to just crush any web site it doesn’t like) has also made it very difficult for other-than-big-time players to keep their heads above water, financially.

      I made it a point of honor to never whore myself or this site out. We have always kept the ads clearly separate from editorial – and I have never once written an article with the object of selling anyone anything. I had hoped that would be viable. That we could provide a relatively commercial-free online magazine, or at least, an online magazine whose editorial content was not in any way compromised by commercialism. We have received countless “offers” from “guest posters” – that is, from some corporate shill – looking to “place” what amounts to an an ad or product pitch, only disguised as “content” – in return for “callous cash payment.” I have more respect for the readers – and myself – and told them all to take a hike.

      I absolutely refuse to become a hawker of Buy! Gold! Now! (or anything along those lines). Whatever I write will be my honest opinions, my take (for good or ill) on the facts as I see them.

      Now it’s just a question of figuring out a way to survive without Goo-guhl.

      And, in spite of Goo-guhl.

      • neil
        August 19, 2013 at 10:20 pm

        Eric,
        You are far from done. Your opinions and encouragement are too needed. To add a simple ‘donate’ button (with an appropriate explanation) would be great. As you say, it would only take a small portion of total readership/visitors to make it go.
        By way of my always hopeful temperament I’d suggest looking at http://www.bmyers.com and http://www.garynorth.com .. Both of them, (although with different topics), use Hostgator webhosting and a subscription format, with free AND subscription information on their sites. They have forums for subscribers as well. Check them out.
        (Neither of them are more than $5-10/mo.) Their methods have also made them both pretty well off financially. I agree with so many others in the comments. Ditch Google altogether!

  15. Mike in Boston
    August 17, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    Hi Eric, Google is obviously just an arm of the NSA; can’t have any truth out there, just the establishment line of BS. I’m willing to toss in $5 -$10 a month by mailing a check since the postal service is still (relatively) secure; probably why that asshat Darrel Issa keeps trying to crush them. Anyhow I’d hate to see your site go away, it gives me hope that there are still some sane people left in the USSA. Post what you decide on and I’m onboard; thanks for all your work to date.

    • August 17, 2013 at 2:43 pm

      Thanks, Mike!

      We’re going to try reader support – so thank you, in advance.

  16. mikehell
    August 17, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    Sorry to hear this, Eric. This is one more thing that pushes me closer to killing my google acct and starting over. And I wish I could offer financial support but I can barely cover my own these days.

    Best of luck.

    • August 17, 2013 at 3:56 pm

      I hear you, Mike – we’re looking at non-Goo-guhl ways to make this work. Thanks for your support – and, please keep coming back!

  17. Doug
    August 17, 2013 at 3:58 pm

    I’ve always been overly paranoid but if Internet Companies are working hand in hand with the Government to spy on citizens, is it not too far-fetched to think they could be doing the same to protect it? Your Site is just a ball-hair in a bucket of piss but it certainly isn’t supportive of the Government. And if your Site is growing, well, why not take the same precautions the NSA is doing by keeping my 91 year-old Mother’s telephone conversations.
    This may be an opportunity for you to sell everything and get out – before it’s too late. It’s not going to get any better and it will get a whole-lot worse.

    • Tor Minotaur
      August 17, 2013 at 11:42 pm

      The government has to be everywhere, and have a hand in everyhing to seem relevant. Right now, every half hour, our cable is unwatchable because there is some BS amber alert that cuts out the sound and renders all channels unveiwable while Big Brother scrolls his useless propaganda. Also every few minutes there are countless ads and PSAs. The ads and intrusions on the internet are growing exponentially as well.

      The radio is a marvel, yet look how limited and controlled that is.
      There is no good reason why there couldn’t be spontaneous interactive radio stations. The PTB don’t want it.

      Same thing with TV. In a free world, Lew Rockwell could broadcast on digital channel 8.1 or whatever and whoever wanted to view his content could. there is plenty of room for all kinds of digital channels.

      There are million dollar barriers for getting on TV or Radio, and in the long run, as the internet matures, they will likely raise costs and erect barriers there as well. What will remain is online social spaces, where we are all photo-ID’d and linked to our real-life personas, so everything will be controlled and stifled the way they like it.

      For now, as I understand it, what Google is claiming is that Eric’s site is skewing their search results. When someone clicks on one of Eric’s Tesla reviews for example. Their contention is it’s a Spam like behavior if he goes off on tangents related and unrelated to complain about what a crony Elon Musk is. Or how neutered and shitty modern autos are. And then, someone will post a cop brutality video and some copyrighted music in the comments for good measure. That type of freeform communication will be tamped down.

      They will hound people small fish like Eric the same way they did big fish Howard Stern. Here he was making radio stations a fortune, but he didn’t adhere to their agenda, so now he is forced to be on Sirius network, which operates from the GPS satellite system in a way the PTB are trying to shut down or collect bribes from as we speak.

      Eric and many of us want to listen to Howard Stern, but the PTB have made it uneconomical to do so. There is only the illusion of a free market here in America. The PTB distort and suppress anything they see as dissent, and also ram their unpopular pro-gay, pro-femnist, pro-immigration, and whatever other Psyops down our throats and claim these astroturf juggernauts are really about liberation and freedom for everyone, when nothing could be further from the truth.

      • August 18, 2013 at 10:00 am

        As most of my amigos know, I do not have – and never will have – a cell phone. I gather that now, “owners” of these devices are compelled to endure interruptions of “their” service when Dear Leader wishes to make a pronouncement, or for those noxious Amber Alerts.

        Attention! Attention Citizens! Stand by for The Two Minutes’ Hate!

        How much longer before that comes to pass?

        Another good reason to throw those hellish devices most people could easily live without – and live much better lives without – in the woods!

        • dom
          August 19, 2013 at 12:50 am

          This is true, Eric does not talk on cell phones. For example, two weeks ago the site went down and Eric’s land line was out at the same time. His wife has a cell and he had her call me on it. He made her be the middle man for our conversation. Shit still makes me laugh. Matter of fact I was telling someone about this the other day.

          • Tre Deuce
            September 20, 2013 at 1:53 am

            reg; “Eric does not talk on cell phones”

            Pissing into the wind.

            All communications are recorded, land line, cell ph., CB/Ham/emergency radio, and even short range race radios and air and marine communications, whether digital or analog. Even voice in sensitive areas of interest or just fishing operations.

            So Eric and all, might as well utilize the available and convenient technology and choose your words and phrasing carefully, if need be.

            Like an IRS filing, you will only attract attention if you use key words or attract attention for other reasons, like those whose ideas threaten the state. Free thinkers… be wary. Mindless sycophants go are of no interest as they maintain the statist state. Oop’s! used one of those key words… or three, catching you all up in the net.

            And so it goes…… Sleep well

          • September 20, 2013 at 5:28 am
      • Eric_G
        August 19, 2013 at 1:28 am

        Here he was making radio stations a fortune, but he didn’t adhere to their agenda, so now he is forced to be on Sirius network, which operates from the GPS satellite system in a way the PTB are trying to shut down or collect bribes from as we speak.

        For the record, Sirius-XM uses geosynchronous satellites they launched back in the late 1990s. Originally when the FCC set aside the frequency bands for Satellite Digital Audio Radio Service (SDARS) there were to be 2 competing companies. However they couldn’t get enough interest (blaming, among other things, iPods) to keep two companies running, so the government let them merge (which seems like it would have been the plan all along).

        The biggest problem with Sirius-XM is that they are prohibited from effectively competing with terrestrial radio for day-to-day activities (footbuuuuul being the exception, one monopoly scratches the back of the other).

        And don’t think for a minute the powers that be aren’t already extracting a ton of cash from the Sirius-XM folks.

        What I’d like to see is elimination of the law prohibiting US short wave stations from transmitting into the CONUS. Or set up a station offshore or in the Caribbean and blast Florida with reasonable thought.

  18. jimr
    August 17, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    I say fuck google and keep ericpetersautos.com alive. This site is worth the $25 subscription but I understand not everyone would be financially able to swing that. $5 a month would be a better amount for many but leave the multiple amounts option available for those capable of reaching into their pockets a little deeper.

    My thanks to you and Dom for keeping this site alive.

    • August 17, 2013 at 5:25 pm

      Amen, Jim.

      We’ve already had an encouraging level of response.

      Thanks to all who’ve helped out so far!

  19. August 17, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    Whatever it takes to poke a stick in google’s eye (and all their attachments), I’m for it. There isn’t any way I could come up with even $5 a month, that’s $60. a year… but I can send some. I’d suggest to forget the “monthly” thing unless it’s automated. Don’t know anyone who would actually write a check and lick a stamp every month unless the goons were coming to turn off the gas and lights.

    A yearly subscription, however, in the $35. range, should be doable to a lot of people. Make the clovers pay double…

    • Eightsouthman
      September 20, 2013 at 4:59 am

      Mama, I quit using Google many years ago. People told me But G is a great search engine to which I’d reply, doesn’t matter, they were one of the first to spy when it was a matter of choice. I started using DDG 4 years ago, moving away from Startpage and Bing and never looked back. yes, DDG does use G search results to some extent but I don’t use those returns. I’ve made it for years now without it and in that time, many other search engines have taken the slack.

  20. Eric_G
    August 18, 2013 at 3:26 am

    Eric, as you know I donated earlier this summer after you “reminded” us of the donate button at the top. I already set a reminder to send along a few more bucks on payday. I listen to a lot of podcasts when driving, most of which are extremely amateur in nature but mostly acceptable quality. Only one actually flat out asks for donations, the No Agenda Show with Adam Curry and John Dvorak (http://noagendashow.com). They seem to be making money, with some big fish donors and lots of small fish. I make it a point to donate once or twice a year because I like the show and get something out of it I don’t get elsewhere. They’ve seen a marked decline in donations over the summer months, but they seem to be making some money anyway.

    When I was much younger I was a musician. If you wanted to hear me play you had to pay. Heck, even in church they’d pass the offering plate, and if I wasn’t playing in my “home” church I’d get some cash at the end of the service. If I wanted a magazine I had to pay for it. About the only thing that was free was TV and radio, and once the VCR made renting movies (again, paying for entertainment) a viable business, watching TV was much less entertaining (and I discovered shows like South Park and Mystery Science Theater 3000 on VHS long before I could see them on my cable system). And obviously, as loyal as I am to my employer, that loyalty ends the day the paycheck bounces.

    One problem with trying to maintain the advertising model for blogs and other Internet content is that advertising requires casting a large net (hence the term “broadcasting”). The reason there were only 3 TV networks until cable invented the dual cash stream was because they couldn’t risk segmenting the market further. Now that there’s a million TV networks out there the only way to make money in TV is to buy as many as you can and sell ad inventory by the hundreds of plays.

    There’s never been a truly viable ad model for a few thousand page views a day (and 0 click throughs). And The Google ad “algorithm” just makes it worse. I have to put up with their crummy ads on a few apps on my phone (another thing I just pay for instead of the “free with ads” versions), and not only are they not targeted at me, they’re just useless. For how much information they gather about me you’d think they’d be able to throw all sorts of useful ads my way… but the problem is the companies I buy from don’t do business with Google, and likely aren’t ever going to do business with Google.

    At any rate, I’m a big believer in the pay-to-view model. It gets your readers more engaged, since they have some skin in the game, and it gets you away from having 2 masters.

    Now get writing and stop worrying! We’ll keep the lights on for you.

    • August 18, 2013 at 7:17 am

      And obviously, as loyal as I am to my employer, that loyalty ends the day the paycheck bounces.

      Many years ago now, I was doing some computer contract work. Not only did the agency not sign the contract (and get the notice period on it wrong), they also didn’t sign the first cheque, all of which together seemed to add up to more than just clerical error. They were a bit put out that I prioritised telephoning them to sort it out over going in to the client’s premises to do the rest of the work.

    • August 18, 2013 at 9:32 am

      Thanks, Eric!

      One of the “lateral” things we’ve decided to do is offer eBooks – once I figure out how to put one together!

      I have two partially fleshed out manuscripts. One, I had intended to publish conventionally like my last two books – but that project stalled out because my publishers have reduced their advances and royalties to such a ludicrous level that I decided not to work with them. At least with eBooks, the author gets more than 1 cent of early dollar the work generates!

      We’ve already had a very encouraging response to our plea for direct support. If it continues, we’ll have end-run Goo-guhl – and I can think of few things that would be more satisfying!

      • neil
        August 19, 2013 at 10:35 pm

        Eric,
        Seriously, concerning books and/or ebooks, go check out J.A.Konrath at http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/ His experience with ‘traditional’ publishing and self-publishing through Amazon is illuminating (to say the least). Guess which route allowed him to do best and eliminate the ‘gatekeepers’ and get to five figures a month in income. He actually posts his progress. Makes me want to quit everything else and just write..(and fish,and golf..whoops..gave it away)

        • August 19, 2013 at 11:23 pm

          Hi Neil,

          It’s on my plate for certain. I am already working up the bones of my manuscript. Depending on how the fall (and wood splitting) goes, I may have the finished eBook done in time for Christmas!

          Meanwhile, the support we’re getting so far makes me think we might be able to pull it off – and survive outside the Adsense Matrix!

  21. Garysco
    August 18, 2013 at 10:48 am

    Interesting how we have to read the CIA funded search engine company policy of “do no evil” and the TelePrompter-in-Chief’s musings in a mirror to get the truth.

    Like Bette Davis said, “Fasten your seatbelts, it’s going to be a bumpy night!”

    • myles
      August 20, 2013 at 2:19 am

      Precisely! I was going to post something similar, but you beat me to it. Google’s “don’t be evil” rule is a quaint memory at this point.

  22. Phil
    August 18, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    Eric,
    Consider an Angie’s List pricing model. Deliberately kept low to encourage a broad base of subscribers. Angie’s List is approximately $2-$3/month on a credit card depending on geography (she has gotten more sophisticated over time). Consider the reaction of someone who has not read your site before who links to an article from a feeder site, say, lrc.com. They read the article and like what they see. At the bottom there is the subscriber link. Let’s say you make it $2.50/month. At that price, a lot of resistance drops. People will say, “yes, I can afford that”. You end up with a very broad base over time. And, because the price is low, it will be sticky revenue. Just a thought.

    • August 18, 2013 at 1:49 pm

      It’s an excellent idea, Phil – thanks!

  23. pc
    August 18, 2013 at 7:35 pm

    Bummer..suggest you look at the Peter Schiff model…$7 and change gets zapped from my bank account every month..I don’t even notice..

  24. JFish
    August 18, 2013 at 8:01 pm

    Fascinating stuff, Eric. Bogus, typical Goo-g crap, but fascinating from a tech perspective. As an IT guy who’s been in the web dev world for 15+ years now, I simply can’t see what they think they stand to gain from delisting the domain. Ugly interference seems to be the only likely scenario, which simply pisses me off. Glad I stopped using their browser and their search engine a few months ago; they no longer have the level of trust necessary to provide free services … how sad is that!

    All that being said, I can probably come up with a few bucks a month or so to help out. Keep up the good work, and I’ll find a moment to get a donation going in the next few days.

    • August 18, 2013 at 8:46 pm

      Thanks, Jason!

      I’m very encouraged by the level of support we’ve received so far. Fingers crossed, we’ll end-run these NSA-funded SOBs!

  25. Tor Minotaur
    August 18, 2013 at 9:09 pm

    Goo-Guhl Expose:

    TErms And COndltIOns MAy Apply
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHpvG_KUKAM

    An important and frightening documetnary about how Goo-Guhlgle, Amaspawn, Flikkr, Fazebook, Twither, Pinturest, Linkdi harvest our personal information and sell it to the highest bidder, or to the government. How you don’t read the “Terms and conditions” before you click “Accept” – nobody does, it would take a month per year for everything you sign. Even when that text is brief and written in plain English, it gives corporations unprecedented power over your personal information – including the right to change the rules without telling you, to increase their power without limit and without asking again, and to keep it forever, even after you have “deleted” it.

    – TANSTAAFL still applies, your Kellner is delivering your Rechnung soon!

  26. Swamprat
    August 18, 2013 at 11:11 pm

    Eric –

    Under normal circumstances, I would pony up the $25.00 per month or even more, but finances as they are permit me to contribute $10.00 per month. If things normalize by years end or next year, I could kick it up to $25.00 per month. One question, though. If you get enough site supporters, how is it going to help with Gogul’s situation? How does it affect their delisting you from their site?

    • August 18, 2013 at 11:42 pm

      That would be fantastic, Swamp! Thank you!

      As I mentioned in another reply, even $5 a month would be plenty if 5 percent of the readers support the site to that extent. I am hopeful they will decide the site – not just me, not just my rants, but also the community we have here – is worth the cost of a cup of coffee at Starbucks once a month.

      As far as Goo-guhl: The main problem is Adsense. Until now, it has been the primary revenue source, paying for our servers and everything else.

      But – if initial response is any indication – I think we stand a very good chance of end-running Goo-guhl.

      And that would make my day!

  27. dom
    August 19, 2013 at 12:27 am

    I added this to the donate page:

    One-Time Donations




       
    Recurring Donations




    • fruitloop
      August 19, 2013 at 2:21 am

      HI Eric,

      Have been reading the site for a while now and have enjoyed all of the Articles and comments though not all are relevant over here in New Zealand (Thankfully).

      Have decided to register as a sign of support and will make donations when funds are available as many of your readers have stated.

      Was wondering if it was worthwhile having a worm to track donations for the current month.

      This might encourage people who cannot make regular donations, as they could see that the month is below target and make a spontaneous donation to help.

      Many Thanks
      Fruitloop

      • August 19, 2013 at 9:09 am

        Thanks, Fruit!

        So far, so good…. we’re very encouraged by the show of support (and expressions of anger over what Goo-guhl has done).

  28. joeallen
    August 19, 2013 at 4:14 am

    No doubt Google is being “prodded” by the nsa. After all, goo-gull panders to the law in countries where citizens are regarded as slaves. And silicon valley sleep with the nsa. And this site’s support for Manning and Snowden would be well known to the nsa. That is why goo-gull is being nonresponsive to you.

    Eric, for us overseas supporter, you could set up a paypal account where we could make the donations to. I transfer money to my relatives by using paypal account. Very low cost to us, if any.

    • August 19, 2013 at 6:59 am

      Eric, for us overseas supporter, you could set up a paypal account where we could make the donations to. I transfer money to my relatives by using paypal account. Very low cost to us, if any.

      Very low cost? But I know of no way of getting funds into a paypal account at low cost in the first place. How would I pay them cash? How could I make a bank transfer without both incurring fees and losing the identifying information needed to connect the payment to me? (That’s what happened when I tried to pay my ISP that way.) How could I do it with a credit card without both getting one in violation of my conscientious objections and incurring fees? (Credit cards that apparently don’t charge the user fees are still levying them, just on everybody making transactions whether they pay that way or in other ways, and in fact that is the basis of my conscientious objections to them – it’s a “Tragedy of the Commons” or “Prisoner’s Dilemma”.)

      • August 19, 2013 at 9:17 am

        I understand, PM.

        Going cash (and ID free) is becoming almost impossible beyond the most trivial (and person to person) transactions.

        The net continues to tighten….

  29. David
    August 19, 2013 at 5:35 am

    Eric –
    I think @ $25 per month you are going to have very limited subscribers. Personally I wouldn’t pay that. There’s very few things I’d pay that kind of recurring fee for. There’s sites out there that have premium content (I’m thinking of George Noory’s Coast-to-coast as an example) for around $.15 per day, $4.50 a month. Some thoughts –
    1. Not pricing yourself so high that your visits drop precipitously. As in almost none.
    2. If your visits drop then you won’t be able to get other advertisers to pay to put ads on your site. People actually pay to get on HuffPo and other large sites because of the traffic / no of hits they get and visit lengths.
    3. You should consider a subscription fee of < $5 per month and trying to get a much larger viewing audience. Unless you can get those 70 people to pony up $25 each month and subsidize the whole thing and give everyone carte blanche access. In which case your 70 sugar daddies are going to feel taken advantage of perhaps.
    4. What about people who can't pay a thing? Do those people just not have access to your site? If that is the case then your analytics will go way south.
    5. Split revenue model – free content for most but premium content for those that can afford a modest monthly fee.

    Just some thoughts.
    David

    • August 19, 2013 at 9:44 am

      Hi David,

      I probably should have phrased it differently – or more clearly – in the article.

      I referenced $25/month to make the point that it would only take about 70 people to make the site viable financially at that level. In other words, just a small group of people – backyard barbecue, basically – out of the thousands of people who regularly visit this site.

      If mere hundreds were to support us with $10 or so a month – perhaps even as little as $5 a month – that would work, too.

      The worry is that not enough people will be willing to send in the equivalent of a cost of a cup of Starbucks coffee once a month – and that’s why I mentioned $25.

      This is all new country to me.

      I hate having to ask for financial support. I wish I could do this for free. Unfortunately, Goo-guhl has forced my hand…

  30. wolffie
    August 19, 2013 at 5:35 am

    Hey eric. You don’t have to move to subscription, though a prominent Paypal/Dwolla “Donate” button is obviously smart.

    The better way to roll is via affiliate sales. Though the easiest option is Amazon, they pay out BS commissions (like 4 or 5%).

    Every business beyond a pretty small-time SMB has an affiliate program. Considering you’re focused on automotive topics, sorta, you should look into that. Say you recommend a decent compressor that’s $100 and the company selling it pays out like 10% or so. $10 per referral. You get my drift.

    Stuff that sells for a few hundred can add up pretty quickly with even low percentage commission rates.

    Check out Adam Carolla’s podcast success story vis-a-vis affiliate sales to keep afloat and actually make decent money without having to really charge.

    Basically, just review decent stuff once a week or so and post an affiliate link encouraging folks to use it to buy if they’d like the product and would like to support the site simultaneously.

    You throw enough referrals to a company and they’ll start to offer discounts and such. Win win.

    • August 19, 2013 at 9:35 am

      Hi Wolffie,

      I’m very reluctant to get into hawking products personally. I don’t want to become the Billy Mays of Libertarian Car Journalism!

      The problem is simply this (and I say this as someone who worked for many years at a major newspaper, so I’m familiar with advertiser expectations – and demands): They want you to never say anything but positive things about their product or service. It is not possible to be an honest broker. At least, not to my knowledge.

      If it were possible for me to try out a given product, and then relay my honest evaluation of it to the readers, without sweating what the company will think – or rather, do – that would be one thing. But – so far as I know – they don’t work this way. You accept their money, or their payola (free stuff) and the expectation is that you will try to pitch their product. That, in turn, turns you into a shill – and I’d rather go wrench on cars or drive a truck than do that.

      I am able to write honestly about the cars I test drive – but then, I do not have any financial relationship whatsoever with the car companies. I get to test drive the cars to review – and that’s it.

      • garysco
        August 19, 2013 at 10:26 am

        Eric, re-read my suggestion and go view how that site is setup. It is basically all done in WordPress. Don’t hustle products & services you don’t trust, and they agree up font you will hold their feet to the fire on any complaints. You are selling your special audience (readership) to that advertiser, and they should appreciate it. Jack (the site I referenced) has advertisers knocking his doors down begging for one of his limited slots. Non-subscribers are are able to view all regular content, post on the forums, but subscription brings value added and discounts worth more than the subscription price. I am only guessing but I suspect his daily 70,000 audio downloads MORE than pays the bills.

  31. August 19, 2013 at 5:49 am

    I would also be willing to kick in a few bucks as I can do so. I read and lurk a lot more than I talk, but I’m a big fan and just plain offended by the attempt to kill you off.

    A friend of mine syndicates his blog on the Kindle store, and makes a few bucks a month from that; is that something you could try doing? Seems at least some people are actually willing to pay money to get their Kindles to download blog posts they could read for free in a browser.

    • August 19, 2013 at 9:28 am

      Thanks, Darien –

      I know next to nothing about Kindle, but will look into it. Especially as far as eBooks. I’ve decided to try that for sure. I have extensive experience editing as well as writing, so putting together the text part of a book is no problem. But I have virtually no experience (and very little knowledge) when it comes to organizing photography, formatting and all of that side of putting a book together.

      But, this ol’ dog is gonna roust himself and try to learn some new tricks!

  32. August 19, 2013 at 6:00 am

    There’s a third way:

    1. Best thing is to switch your ads from Adwords to Amazon affiliate products. Find the most popular auto products (see Amazon top listings) costing about $40, put them up in ads. You also get a commission on whatever else the person buys the next 24 hours from Amazon. (That’s what LRC does.)

    Put the ads on the right side of your front page, at the top, and of all pages. (WordPress can do that easily.) Bottom ads don’t work.

    2. At some point, also put up regular ads for products, after making deals with them: hubcaps, old car parts, car wax, ect.

    3. At the same time, develop your Facebook presence. Link that to your Website. And advertise your printed books (and Kindle books; see No. 3) on Facebook. Switch your comments to Facebook.

    4. Compile your auto reviews into Kindle books of about 50 pages (no more). Sell them for $2.99 (no more) on Amazon. At the back of each book, list all your other Kindle books. Titles: 2014 new cars, 2013 new cars, recent SUVs, Chrysler reviews, Buick reviews, electric car reviews, luxury auto reviews, etc. Cut and paste should take an hour for each one. These are books of original material (not copies of 1922 books), so you will get 70%, or $1.40 a book. Put up 100 books. Sell one of each on average every day, that’s $140 a day. No work after each one is up, except maybe to put up ads on your sites for them.

    5. And how are you doing on Bing/Yahoo?

    6. Someone who teaches how to do this is Harlan Kilstein. See his DogingtonPost.com, which is highly profitable after 18 mos.: http://dogingtonpost.com/

    • August 19, 2013 at 9:25 am

      Hi John,

      The Amazon suggestions are interesting – thank you – we will look into it.

      On Facebook: Never. That’s just another face of the Goo-guhl-NSA Janus.

      All thinking people should throw Facebook in the woods!

      • Charles
        August 19, 2013 at 11:24 am

        But Facebook has a huge potential. What sort of a threat are we to those who run it??

        • Ed
          August 19, 2013 at 12:48 pm

          Charles, on sites with FB comments, the commentary is dominated by trolls. There’s just no intelligent commentary in the threads.

          • Charles
            August 19, 2013 at 2:41 pm

            Ed but trolls can be found everywhere just check out the comments section of the Daily Mail online in the UK.

      • August 19, 2013 at 5:57 pm

        The NSA spies on everything, so staying off Facebook doesn’t help, either. As the recent attack on Lavabit shows, the only out is to get off the Net entirely — although the latest is the Feds might not let Lavabit even shut down. If Facebook is useful, I say use it, with whatever caveats you may throw into the woods. LRC uses it.

    • Ed
      August 19, 2013 at 12:42 pm

      “And advertise your printed books (and Kindle books; see No. 3) on Facebook. Switch your comments to Facebook.”

      Any site where a facebook login is required to post automatically goes on my ‘never visit’ list. Fuck facebook.

      • August 19, 2013 at 3:03 pm

        “Any site where a facebook login is required to post automatically goes on my ‘never visit’ list. Fuck facebook.”

        Ditto, Ed.

        That will never happen here. I’ll close the doors first.

  33. george
    August 19, 2013 at 8:43 am

    A search on [lincoln Mkz review collision warning system] had eric peters on the second page of results. So Google still knows you are there. As to delisting, I don’t know much, google has some advice about what might cause it.

  34. george
    August 19, 2013 at 8:43 am

    A search on [lincoln Mkz review collision warning system] had eric peters on the second page of results. So Google still knows you are there. As to delisting, I don’t know much, google has some advice about what might cause it.

    • August 19, 2013 at 9:12 am

      Hi George,

      Google’s “advice”? They have a series of formulaic, generic, auto-responses. You cannot get them to tell you, specifically, what you’ve done that violates their policies, nor what – specifically – can be done (if anything) to fix it. You are left to guess – and poke in the dark.

      There is no 800 number, no contact person you can speak with. Nothing. They are a monolith.

  35. Pete
    August 19, 2013 at 9:51 am

    Hi Eric,

    Sent you an email offering free hosting. Not as good as money, but hope it helps :-).

    Look at buysellads.com for a revenue booster..

  36. quadcap
    August 19, 2013 at 10:34 am

    I don’t know, guys — have you considered that this might be an SEO attack from somebody other than google? Or, heaven forbid, some bug in your site or server configs?

    Not that I don’t believe that google is evil, but a simple search shows that there are lots of reasons to be “delisted” that aren’t NSA-directed:

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=google+delisted+quality

    • August 19, 2013 at 10:42 am

      No, it’s Goo-guhl.

      100 percent sure of this.

      All the written content on this site is my original work. We were going like gangbusters… and then, two months ago, Goo-guhl peremptorily del-listed us, no explanation given, no person over there we can even talk to.

      So, even if it’s “benign” – some technical issue/snafu and not a deliberate attempt to snuff the site – there is nothing we can do.

      Nothing reasonable, that is. We can – and have – tried various things, but it’s all guesswork. There is no way for us to even know, precisely, what the problem is. And no way to know whether what we try is a fix.

      Talk to the Hand is their attitude.

      • quadcap
        August 19, 2013 at 12:09 pm

        Have you followed the search link that I gave you? If you do, you can find tons of examples of website owners just like yourself, who created original content and found themselves delisted. For example, if thousands of spammy websites link to your site, you can be delisted, without doing anything wrong on your end. Or if your site gets hacked, the results can get your site delisted, if you don’t find and fix it in time. Or if your site’s configuration messes up the g**gle crawler. Or, …

        I’m as paranoid as the next guy, but make sure you perform due diligence using the tools available to you before concluding that you’ve been nuked from orbit — “there’s nothing we can do” is a bit too fatalistic and victim-like, don’t you think?

        As for google’s lack of interest in your problem — consider that they are providing a service to drive traffic to your site for free. What do you think they owe you in terms of support for this free service?

        I *do* like some of the ideas that have been floated in this thread about alternate revenue generation schemes — a lot of them (like selling Kindle e-books) would work alongside any kind of ads program.

        Regarding subscriptions: I guess I’m just a cheapskate, but I refuse to pay for web content, and I know I’m not alone. There’s way too much free stuff to sort through for me to pay — if all of the sites that I visit started charging money, I’d probably shut off my computer and go work in my garden. Hmm, might not be such a bad thing….

        In any case, good luck resolving the situation — I enjoy your writing, and the ideas on the site.

        Oh, one last thing: If you *have* been targeted, creating a new site isn’t going to help — they’ll just delist that one too…

        • August 19, 2013 at 3:07 pm

          Hi Quad,

          Dom – a full-time/professional computer Ninja Master – has spent the better part of two months attempting to find/fix whatever it was that offended Goo-guhl. No dice. Worst part? They won’t tell us what the issue is – or whether anything we do is fixing the issue.

          There is literally nothing else left to do.

          • BrentP
            August 19, 2013 at 7:27 pm

            I still don’t understand what ‘delisting’ is. I put in terms like Lincoln MKZ eric peters and your review of the 2014 model is first match, 2013 second match. With just lincoln mkz review 2014, your review on this site is the last link on the third page.

            Clearly the google spider is crawling through your site and indexing it.

  37. TrousedOut
    August 19, 2013 at 11:09 am

    I’d definitely contribute something monthly, and if this was the only site I contributed to I would consider up to $5/month. However having monthly contributions to Lew Rockwell, The Spearhead, Dan Carlin, A voice for Men, and Paul Craig Roberts. I gotta support ‘em all and future important writers. Somethings better than nothing and hopefully this amt will keep your site and writing a viable and ongoing internet voice.

    • August 19, 2013 at 11:14 am

      Thank you, TrousedOut!

      I’ve already said this a few times, but: I’m encouraged by the response so far. The expressions of support have really lifted my spirits.

      Thanks again to all of you. I will do my best to prove worthy.

      PS: We put the “Donate” button on the top right of the main page – replacing the Goo-guhl ads that had occupied that place!

  38. Some Guy
    August 19, 2013 at 11:21 am

    Sorry about your troubles, Eric. I haven’t been a regular visitor for that long, but you probably made some random Google flunky mad and that’s all it takes. I know a person who worked in their site/ad approvals dept and he is one of those people who has enjoys any kind of petty tyranny he can exercise. But that’s also true of any bureaucracy and why any law which is open to arbitrary enforcement is truly evil. If you don’t keep the site up, I’d archive it and make it available as a torrent. If you decide to go the user-supported model, I would display a running tally of how much people have contributed so far and how much you need to get for whatever reporting period you have. This will let people know that they’re not the only ones sending in money.

    • DownshiftFast5to1
      August 19, 2013 at 2:03 pm

      I second (third) this notion: “display a running tally of how much people have contributed so far and how much you need to get for whatever reporting period you have.”

      For those who cannot easily donate every month, they might be more inclined to do so if they saw you really really needed it, vs. just needed it. GnowhatI’msain’?

      I’m thinking about wearing my seatbelt so I can justify donating.
      I made it about 400 days before a $50,000 SUV with two mafioso’s pulled up next to me after they’d just gone through a $10 automatic car wash.

      It did help to think of the ticket as the fine divided by the number of days I didn’t wear it. At the same time it was distracting to listen to my wallet do math while a cop was trying to ask me why I wasn’t wearing my seatbelt.

      On top of that I was repeating to myself, “Don’t talk to the police. Don’t talk to the police.”

      EVenthough my fine equals out to ~ 14 Cents per violation, I still feel ill having to send the state an extra $127 so they can wash their spiffy SUV, which is wayy nicer than my car.

      I might have to stop treating certain stoplights as stop signs too, maybe?
      I did it to one of those red-light cameras and I got a ticket in the mail on the same day I got the seatbelt ticket. When it rains, it pours, eh? (Did I mention my gas tank sprang a leak two days ago?) …Anyway…

      I’d ignore the red-light camera but the ticket says the fine gets reported to a credit collection agency. I kind of like having good credit. (Can they put a lean on my vehicle?) I’d fight the ticket, only the ticket says if I fight it I’m automatically charged for court costs equivelent to the fine.

      In other words, I have to pay up front to face my accuser? And pay double if I lost. They got people coming, and going, with that skimming scam.

      Also, I think an incentive to donate more, would be good, i.e. donate so much and get an EPA sticker, or something? … It’s probably illegal to have a raffle.

      • August 19, 2013 at 2:37 pm

        Good stuff, DS – I rationalize (amortize?) my occasional ticket “fees” the same way.

        Sorry to hear you got pinched.

        Bastards.

  39. Jon
    August 19, 2013 at 11:21 am

    Why t do both? Create a new site that has free content and also have a members only section. The members section could include special articles, periodic newsletters, a forum for discussion, videos, etc…

    You could also give Google the finger on ad space and simply sell your own ad space

    • August 19, 2013 at 11:23 am

      We’re going to try as many things as seem feasible. Hopefully – and so far, so good – we’ll get enough direct support from the readers to at least keep us afloat.

      Thanks again to everyone who’s chipped in – and to all of you’ve expressed support in other ways as well!

  40. August 19, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    Google won’t delist you without a reason, so it seems to me you’re giving up too easily on finding that reason.

    So the question is, what are you doing differently from other such sites?

    I know for me the “sliding” menu at the side is hugely annoying. It’s possible it’s considered to be hijacking the user’s browser, which could be enough for an automated ban.

    There’s a login thing at the top of the screen which seems new? Anything new, followed by a ban, is suspicious. Again an automated bot could consider the site to be behind a login and so de-list it.

    I’m a consultant for improving sales, rather than SEO, so I can’t help directly. I do however recommend you find a good SEO specialist or company and ask them to help identify why you were delisted. From there you can do an appeal with Google, and yes, those do sometimes work.

    Alan

    • August 19, 2013 at 1:07 pm

      Google WILL delist you without giving a reason. In fact the auto e-mail they send says specifically that they can not tell you why.

      • August 19, 2013 at 2:46 pm

        “Google WILL delist you without giving a reason.”

        Yup – and that’s just what they did to us.

        It’s the most frustrating part – like being fired without being told why.

    • August 19, 2013 at 3:01 pm

      Hi Alan,

      Dom has spent the better part of two months trying to figure out why Goo-guhl de-listed us.

      We figure that’s enough.

      Especially since they won’t even give us a clue – much less tell us specifically what they don’t like and what we’d need to do to correct it.

      This of course assumes it’s not because they just don’t like the message we’re spreading. Which Dom and I strongly suspect (with good reason) is in fact the case.

  41. Salt
    August 19, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    Screw Google… get in touch with Amazon. Google don’t sell sh!t. Amazon does and your site might be another portal for them. There is also Blogger.

    Sorry about your financial troubles. Welcome to Amerika.

    • August 19, 2013 at 2:58 pm

      Thanks, Salt!

      We’re not quitting yet. And if we do end up quitting, it’ll be only after a good fight!

  42. Grant
    August 19, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    I wonder if you could do both options. Create another website with Googuhl ads and let your readers know about it and place “almost” identical posts on the current (subscription) as well as the new site. While your subscriber base is growing on the current website, maybe the alternate site may help pay the bills with Googuhl or Amazon ads.

    On the other hand, this may be a terrible idea based on SEO or other reasons. I just wanted to float the idea in case it might help or help you think in new directions.

    Finally, what about Facebook ads? Could they provide any income?

    • August 19, 2013 at 2:38 pm

      We’ve decided to dump Goo-guhl and try to make a go of it via direct reader support (so far, so good) as well as possibly eBooks and so on.

      As far as Facebook: Might as well go with Goo-guhl. They’re the same thing.

  43. agio
    August 19, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    Eric, you don’t know me but I’ve been an admirer of your writing since your Washington Times days along with Fred Reed and the late Sam Francis.

    You’ve been punished by the Goog monster for your libertarian views…if you had been merely “sandboxed” for overzealous SEO, there might be a way out for you.
    I strongly suspect your recent article encouraging outrunning the cops when observed speeding 20+ mph over the posted limit – a felony in many states – gave the Goog beast the opportunity to send you to perdition. And there you’ll stay.

    Poster ozymandias ,above, mentioned Garynorth.com. Gary North, your colleague at LRC thumbed his nose at goog and doesn’t regret it. He doesn’t need them.

    The good news: You don’t need google; you know how to write you ass off.

    The bad news: Don’t become a panhandler like Steve Sailer…begging for money is a damn poor business model.

    The sobering news: You’re going to have to work a lot harder than you thought to make a living. 500 subscribers paying a monthly price point of $4.99 – $7.99 might work for you. Dr. Gary North writes 4 articles per day, 6 days per week. North makes a handsome living from his website. Ignore your current non-paying readers who might throw you a crumb or two for a couple of months; they won’t do it for long.

    You may have to give away 80% of what you produce during this new phase and make “the 20% good top shelf stuff” available to paying subscribers. Ignore people (‘Poverts’ as North describes them) who claim they can’t afford the subscription price.

    Good luck, Eric, but get busy. There’s not a minute to lose.

    Agio

  44. Nick
    August 19, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    I’m am not definitively sure in which way you should go about solving your problem with the site, but let me offer that you are taking the correct action by number one, being brutally honest about the situation.

    I commend you for that.

    #2. I hate to say this, but I feel honesty should be returned…I’m very skeptical of you getting enough paying subscribers in your demographic to pickup where google ads left off.

    This doesn’t mean your site isn’t good or that people don’t appreciate it, I just think that the subscriber based model is dubious to start because “good intentions” of people that like coming here isn’t enough to pay the bills.

    #3 A few big “fish” in terms of direct marketing(like Autozone for example) that you might be able to land would be a game changer for you.

    Not only could you tell google to kiss your ass(which is a good thing), you have direct control of your success/failure.

    I hope my thoughts help.

    Best Regards Eric, I value what you do here.

    NB: If you end up having to switch site names, I’m assuming some sort of redirect from the old name wouldn’t tag the new site for blackballing by google…does anyone know for sure that wouldn’t happen?

  45. RJG
    August 19, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    Start it over. Call it epautos.com

    Lew obviously will support the restart and having to restart may make an interesting news story that could increase traffic with the right outlet involved.

  46. David
    August 19, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    US$ 20 just sent.
    How about a bitcoin donation button?
    David

    • August 19, 2013 at 6:53 pm

      Thank you, David!

      I’m not all that hip to Bitcoin – but Dom (webmaster here) may be. I’ll mention it to him!

  47. Edgar Westmoreland
    August 19, 2013 at 5:02 pm

    It’s impoverishing to be right when the government is wrong. Me too. I hope you are still around if and when I can help. Know that you have done a service for all who value freedom.

  48. JMM
    August 19, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    Glad you are going with option #1 Eric. I read you religiously, and you’ve added a key concept –“Cloverism” — to my worldview (any chance that little brownshirt “turned you in” for respecting freedom?).

    What kind of guy would I be if I didn’t provide support now? I’m in.

    I have to agree with the posters above who sound like they’ve spent some time with paywalls, and believe this should be a multifaceted strategy to avoid some of the limits of a direct subscription model. Maybe consider additional channels/outlets like Feedly, Flipboard, Pulse, etc? Hell, I’d subscribe to a print magazine if you published one.

    Ready to help,
    JM

    • August 19, 2013 at 6:51 pm

      Thanks, JMM!

      We’ve got the “Donate” button on the top of the page… it’s right where a Google ad used to be!

  49. Dave
    August 19, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    Seems like a lot of abusive power to me. But who am I to complain?
    The larger the organization the less it has to pay attention to people.
    That is why Sherman Anti-trust got off the ground.
    It is why Microsoft ended up with huge fines all over the world.
    If your big enough . . . maybe they don’t care if they get fined. We are talking more money than I will ever see in a lifetime.
    I personally think the marketplace is the ultimate answer. So go find someone who will sponsor your work. Document everything.
    Eventually the leeches will come around for their blood donation. I refer of course to lawyers.
    That is the real reason newspapers do not report the news anymore. It has become too expensive legally to do so. It is why their auto column is so full of useless information and no information about bad products.
    The lawyers go after the big fish. You are small fish in comparison.
    So eventually it will all come back to haunt the Googles of this world. It is simply a matter of time.
    You have done them a big favor and they don’t even know it. You have exposed a very big vulnerability of their entire system of doing business and lack of credibility. Sooner or later the leeches will take them to court and get their pound(ton) of flesh. It is only now a matter of time.

  50. August 19, 2013 at 5:51 pm

    Two more things: 1. It’s hard to make money with a subscription Website unless you help people make money. And even Gary North charges only $9.95 per month. That model probably wouldn’t work for a review site.

    2. If you keep on bugging Google, and publicize it elsewhere, they might relent. I don’t have it, but ask your contacts and readers for a Phone No. at Google that is for somebody important.

  51. August 19, 2013 at 6:01 pm

    Eric, Watch this YouTube to get ideas. You don’t have to buy anything, and I certainly don’t get a commission. But Kilstein shows a lot of how he made DogingtonPost.com successful:

  52. Gregory Sutton
    August 19, 2013 at 6:02 pm

    Eric, perhaps a Plan 3 is in order. Go to losthorizons.com and learn what every true libertarian should learn about the income tax (which you erroneously mention you owe). Start with this file: http://losthorizons.com/Documents/TheTruthAboutThe16thAmendment.pdf
    and go on from there. Once up to speed, you would file the necessary amended returns to get back for the last three years all that you erroneously sent to the leaches. Although not immediate those funds would certainly be better used by you than DC. With your new found knowledge and your writing talent, whole new horizons will open up. In the long run Google may be doing you a favor!
    The truth will prevail, this is just a low hurtle.

    • August 19, 2013 at 6:47 pm

      I think so, too Greg!

      Just the outpouring of support we’ve had during the past 48 hours is more encouraging than I can convey.

      Again, many heartfelt thanks to all of you out there!

  53. BigTigg
    August 19, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    Sorry to hear about the trouble with Google. I don’t post much but I am a regular reader and would hate to see this great site disappear. Monthly donation on its way. Keep up the great work and continue to stir the pot!

    • August 19, 2013 at 6:45 pm

      Thank you, BigTigg!

      Every little bit helps…

  54. Yancey Ward
    August 19, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    Eric,

    Stop being evil, and get into line with the progressives of the world.

    I am guessing that your libertarian writings have gotten you onto someone’s radar at Google, and that someone has torpedoed your site. I would suggest talking to someone about a law suit. There are libertarian/conservative organizations out there that might be willing to do it for free.

    • August 19, 2013 at 6:45 pm

      Hi Yancey,

      Methinks so, too.

      But I’d rather just end-run them… after throwing ‘em in the woods, of course!

      • Libertymike
        August 19, 2013 at 7:51 pm

        Eric, the problem with a libertarian organization taking on the case is the lack of, at least facially, of state action here.

        Have you heard of the Institute for Justice? The IJ is a libertarian public interest law firm which takes on economic liberty cases. However, as far as I know, IJ will not agree to handle a case without the state being a party.

      • Farside
        August 19, 2013 at 8:43 pm

        I honestly don’t think you got slammed for being libertarian-slanted. No offense, but there are way bigger fish to fry if that was someone’s agenda. Google is known for catching up legitimate businesses in their algorithm changes.

        Getting de-listed from their index is a much bigger problem than most people realize. It’s not as easy saying ‘screw Google’.

        If Google search is driving the majority of traffic, then even if you join a new ad network it won’t matter too much – you won’t have nearly as many people visiting. You need to cultivate new traffic streams. Not impossible, but not easy.

        I think you are going in the right direction with the Donation model, as opposed to a straight subscription. I think you may find much higher net with a much lower request, like $5 as many have said.

        Do you have an email newsletter? I don’t see a signup on this page. Even if you don’t want to send soft-sell marketing with it, you could send alerts to new posts and increase traffic that way.

  55. August 19, 2013 at 6:22 pm

    I’ve been blogging for over six years. Although I quit Adsense years ago, based on my experience and others in my blogging group, I have an idea what might have happened. The political articles do not always tie in to your business, which is what your PR is based on. Google is afraid that many readers are not interested in the subject of your website, but in politics, which does not help their advertisers. If they haven’t already started running PSA’s on your political articles, I bet they will soon.

    You still have a decent Alexa ranking. I would try to rescue this business by taking off all the libertarian articles unless some are very tightly focused on your website’s main topic of autos.

    You have a great website, but I don’t think you are going to get many people to pay $25 a month for your content – maybe $10 at the most.

    • August 19, 2013 at 6:44 pm

      I’m sure that removing liberty-minded commentary is exactly what Google is looking for….

      • Tor Minotaur
        August 19, 2013 at 7:53 pm

        You could look into differentiating each of your 3 domains by level of rebellion.

        Eric Peters Autos
        This is where you write about autos and politics. But only what you could have written for a mainstream Autoblog, for Car and Driver, and for the Moonie Times and so forth. TheAgitator and Reason for example only allow fairly mild, on topic comments to their articles.

        E P Autos. Extreme Philo-libertas. Sheise Ron Paul, Lew Rockwell, Alex Jones, H. R. Mencken, Leonard Reed type stuff goes here. Anti-war. Anti-statist but civilized discussions. This will serve you and most of your – as Lew Rockwell refers to you – Anarcho-Capitalist audience most of the time

        Clover Cam. Full Blown Anarchy. Off topic Clover crap, extreme commentary. (You might want to put your most extreme writing into the commentary under a pseudonym, much like Thomas Paine did)
        Dodgy links of questionable ownership, gore, profanity, blasphemy, misogyny, gender and class chauvinism, content scraping, PTB slandering, and select musings on how best to burn this existing authoritarian world down, how to start over fresh next to the charred radioactive stump of the tree of liberty.

      • August 19, 2013 at 8:39 pm

        Google is looking to make money. Presumably, so is Eric. Google knows that much of the traffic to this website is irrelevant to the auto business. For example, I’ve never read anything, but the libertarian articles myself, which I clicked through to from LewRockwell.com. I’m an example of the traffic that Google doesn’t believe helps their advertisers.

        Eric will have to decide whether preserving his business or making a political point is more important. I don’t think there is any way he can get enough subscribers at $25 a month. Newspapers are having trouble getting people to pay $10 a month for their online content, and they have a product that people have proven over a century that they will pay for.

        • August 19, 2013 at 8:44 pm

          Hi Svetlana,

          Cars represent freedom. I therefore use cars – and driving-related issues – to make observations about freedom. Take that out and what have you got?

          More Edmunds.com/Cars.Com/TCC boilerplate.

          That’s not me.

          • August 19, 2013 at 9:16 pm

            I understand what you mean, but Google has you by the balls. Even though I have strong political beliefs based on the suffering my family endured under communist dictatorship, I have never inserted them into my blog. I keep my blog about its purported topic. Google wants focused websites. Members of my blogging group have blogs with far less content than mine, but just as high a PR because those particular blogs are niche blogs.

            My basic point is that finding enough people to pay $25 a month for your content, no matter how good, is just about impossible People won’t even pay that much for porn. I don’t believe that plan has a prayer of succeeding. Once Google breaks up with you, it seldom takes you back, but I do believe deleting the libertarian articles and focusing on the auto business could get them to give you a 2 or 3 PR.

          • August 19, 2013 at 11:30 pm

            Hi Svetlana,

            Yes, but that’s if you want to play ball with them. We don’t. We’re done. With Google , that is.

            The readers here are proving that they’re willing to keep us going – and that’s all I need to know!

        • Ed
          August 19, 2013 at 10:37 pm

          “Newspapers are having trouble getting people to pay $10 a month for their online content, and they have a product that people have proven over a century that they will pay for.”

          That’s the funniest thing I’ve read in weeks. You did mean it as a joke, didn’t you?

      • August 19, 2013 at 10:35 pm

        Maybe you could try this as an experiment. Try setting the political articles up behind a wall where login is required so google’s bots can’t see it, then see if that mysterious de-listing problem starts to clear up. I don’t think the folks here would mind having to create an account here to access the libertarian articles if they don’t already have one. Have you entertained that idea?

        TB

        • dom
          August 19, 2013 at 11:20 pm

          If we did that though we have a lot of upset people who followed an article here and are expecting to see it.

        • August 19, 2013 at 11:21 pm

          Guess what?

          Since we removed Google’s “analytics” from the site, traffic has rebounded like Elvis in ’68….!

          • Ed
            August 19, 2013 at 11:27 pm

            “Since we removed Google’s “analytics” from the site, traffic has rebounded like Elvis in ’68″

            I’ll bet getting rid of Google analitis is what stopped the page from hanging up on a script until it crashed my browser. That was happening so often that I wasn’t even able to read articles here for awhile.

            All better now.

    • dom
      August 19, 2013 at 11:26 pm

      Hey Svetlana, we’ve talked about this a lot since I came on board five years ago. Eric as well as the readers here want both in the same spot. I thought the exact same thing many many times.

  56. John
    August 19, 2013 at 6:55 pm

    try AliExpress. they say they pay up to 50% commission on millions of products. check it out.

  57. Aaron
    August 19, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    Would you take bitcoin, Eric? I would support your site in the field of ~$10/mo. (I currently support infowars and garynorth.com each month, too) Love the material and just in case you cannot attract the necessary subscribers, know you have made us Christian Libertarians very happy and hopeful with your info and insights!

  58. August 19, 2013 at 7:30 pm

    Congratulations on joining the list of thousands of firms google has screwed and refused to disclose why. I’ve written on this, and understandably, had to open my own site to get it published.
    (http://securebuzz.ca/2012/09/when-google-attacks-legitimate-businesses-part-1-introduction-400/)

    To answer your question, I say the only option is the first, for several reasons.

    Charging for content eliminates the crazies. That alone is sufficient reason for a subscription site.

    About pricing… your fellow LewRockwell.com contributor Gary North has a subscription site (garynorth.com). I’ve been a long-time member and pay less than the $15/month it costs now to ask a millionaire any question about job, career, and investments.

    So I mean no offense when I say that to me, $25 seems high. Consider the source – I only stop by to read your site occasionally. You may have a small group of zealous daily readers willing to pay $50 to read you every month… I’ve no idea.

    Also on the price discussion, consider the Oprah strategy of making a penny each off of millions of viewers. Starting your subscription at $5 per month may get more people to join. It may also cause more headaches than it’s worth. You might find $10 to be the number to generate profit and keep the subscriber base polite and intelligent.

    As always, TEST. No I’m not sure how to go about that, altho I’m sure there are experienced individuals who can help you in that department.

    Best to you Eric, whatever you decide.

  59. methylamine
    August 19, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    Eric, I’m so bitterly sorry you’re at this point. I count you among the few voices that are truly authentic, right, honest, and good.

    I’ll understand if you shutter it. But I’ll be pissed; pissed at the faceless bureaucracy winning another cut on the corpse of liberty.

    I can only imagine the quiet rage you must feel. There’s no-one’s mouth to smash in for it. There’s no particular bureaucrat to tar and feather. There’s no building to visit. Google is a KNOWN CIA front; their initial funding was through In-Q-Tel, the CIA’s venture capital group. There are Google outposts on NSA campuses. Of course they’re shutting down disestablishment voices!

    This is how the technocracy works, people–It crushes the life out of us with faceless, nameless bureaucracies. There’s no “there” there to hit. It’s vapor; “cloud computing” becomes “cloud tyranny”, as insubstantial as water vapor.

    But there ARE faces; there ARE people behind it, much as they’d like to remain hidden. Read Rothkopf’s Superclass; they themselves recognize there are about 6,000 in the uber-“elite”, and about 2,000 of those are the actual ruling families. Then there are their puppets in the press and politicians.

    Here’s the secret–their only power is acquiescence by consent.

    Withdraw consent and their plans collapse. How to withdraw consent? Realize you’re being duped and stop giving permission. All of us on this site have done that already; now it’s up to us to convince our “neighbors”.

    Eric, though, has created hundreds of thousands of “neighbors” with his site and his outreach.

    Here on this site are the ideas–his, and ours–that will form the nucleus of a civilization that will magnificently dwarf every feeble attempt that came before it. We WILL go to the stars…but we must emerge from our millennia-long war with the psychopaths and sociopaths first.

    Eric you CAN make this a donation-and-free site that works. And to all of us–if you make a decent amount, think of it this way. I don’t have a full-time voice in this fight; I have a crippled little blog with five readers. But I make a decent amount; I’ll give more than $25/mo. Because I can use my skill to make money and support highly effective voices–Alex Jones, LewRockwell, EricPeters–and leverage myself much more effectively.

    How much time do you guys think you’d have to spend to achieve the voice that Eric has? How much extra time working will let you support his voice, and provide an amplifier for yours when you comment?

    For everyone who CAN’T give $25, give $5. But make it monthly. Keep Eric’s voice alive.

    • August 19, 2013 at 10:48 pm

      What’s the link to your blog? I’ll be # 6.

    • Libertymike
      August 19, 2013 at 11:28 pm

      Ditto.

  60. Libertymike
    August 19, 2013 at 8:08 pm

    If you choose Option One, count me as one of your subscribers.

    This is one of my favorite places on the net. Although I do not visit everyday, I am a frequent flier. It would be a tremendous loss for all of us if we were deprived of the benefit of reading what you have penned. I look forward to each and every new essay as well as the comments section because it is so fun to see you and others educate Clover.

    • August 19, 2013 at 8:24 pm

      Thanks, Mike – we’re accepting donations now (see the button on the top of the main page).

      Anything you can send in would be much appreciated!

  61. notleg
    August 19, 2013 at 8:37 pm

    Why don’t you accept advertisers? Their are numerous companies that would be interested including the company that I work for. I see your site and stories getting reposted often and I thought for sure you were growing.

    • August 19, 2013 at 8:42 pm

      We would – just not from Goo-guhl (not anymore)!

      If your company is interested in advertising with us, please ask the appropriate person to drop me a line: EPeters952@yahoo.com

  62. mary
    August 19, 2013 at 10:37 pm

    count me in for $5/mo at least. I HATE GOOGLE and it drives me nutz that libertarian sites use them…

    • August 19, 2013 at 11:20 pm

      Thank you, Mary!

      The “donate” button at the top of the page will take you to the PayPal thingie.

  63. Ed
    August 19, 2013 at 10:43 pm

    Hey, I wonder how well it would work if access to reading the content were free and commenting was reserved for subscribers only.

    • August 19, 2013 at 10:49 pm

      Kinda goes against the whole concept of free speech there…don’t ya think?

      • Ed
        August 19, 2013 at 11:07 pm

        No, I don’t think it does. Eric has no obligation whatsoever to provide anyone with a venue for expressing their opinions. He can disallow comments altogether, allow anyone to comment free of charge, or allow comments to those who pay for the privilege while blocking those who don’t want to pay.

        A man’s website is his property, isn’t it? If a man decides to allow others to come on his property and speak freely, he has the right to ask for pay for that privilege, or not to ask for pay, as he sees fit, but the issue of freedom of speech doesn’t enter into it.

  64. Phil Freeman
    August 19, 2013 at 11:07 pm

    The toughest thing you got going here Eric, is you will now be at the mercy of your supporters. Since people will be paying you to effectively write, you will also have to censor comments between members, so there will not be too much conflict going on, and thus lose out on your subscription members. This is difficult, since as we have seen, you and your ten guys who live here already don’t like to have their minds stretched too much anyways. The only way you can keep censorship and proper feedback through a libertarian perspective is to be a free reporter. Once your paid subscribers ask for change, well what else you gonna do. Maybe you would get more support though if you changed your blog name to EricPeters Autos, a Neocon political site, since you are way closer to a conservative supporter than anything resembling libertarian. You are like the Rand Paul of libertarianism.

    • August 19, 2013 at 11:18 pm

      Hi Phil,

      I’m not worried about that, actually. I’d rather be at the mercy of my readers than at the mercy of Google!

      As far as censoring: That will never happen – with the exception of gratuitous abuse (e.g., “you’re an asshole” and so on). One of the purposes of this site is to provide a place for honest discussion – no holds barred – so long as it’s intelligent discussion.

      And: How in the world could you accuse me of being a Neocon Republican?

    • Ed
      August 19, 2013 at 11:22 pm

      “You are like the Rand Paul of libertarianism.”

      Yeah, and you just made a good argument for reserving the commenting privilege for subscribers only.

      As an aside, you can’t write for shit, so if I misunderstood what you were struggling to say, please forgive me.

      • Phil Freeman
        August 19, 2013 at 11:38 pm

        Actually I don’t recall saying “ed” at all in what I wrote, so I could care less if you understood me or not.
        I think libertarian theory has changed quite a bit from the days of Mencken, Hazlitt, Nock, to name a few, and although Ron Paul has gotten the message out there, I still think, yourself included Eric, have tried to take the qualities of conservatism and apply it to libertarianism.
        Libertarianism is not so much a politically ideal, but a mindset, an individual way to the self. Most actually just want smaller government, but being left alone in today’s world of six billion plus…come on.

        • Ed
          August 20, 2013 at 12:32 am

          “Actually I don’t recall saying “ed” at all ”

          I didn’t ask about what you may or may not recall and don’t really care.

          “so I could care less ”

          See? you can’t write for shit. The term you’re groping for is “I couldn’t care less”, which means that you care so little that it’s impossible for you to care less. What you said, in your inarticulate way, means that you do care, so it’s possible for you to care less.

          The rest of what you wrote is so poorly expressed that you should just stop trying to needle Eric. He’s a professional writer and the rest of the “ten guys who live here already” are competent users of the English language.

          If you disagree with something someone says here. you should write a rebuttal addressing the particular thing with which you disagree. These rambling accusations aren’t productive, but maybe they’re the best you can do.

          • Phil Freeman
            August 20, 2013 at 1:16 am

            The intent is obviously sarcastic — i am really saying, “As if there was something in the world that I care less about”.
            Ed. Wouldn’t it be better for you to go leach around someone who writes a grammar blog?
            I do disagree. I disagree with the use of libertarianism in today’s world. It solves nothing by saying you are about liberty, when in reality you are about less restrictions.

          • ozymandias
            August 20, 2013 at 1:37 am

            sarcasm, ok, but humor, too, right? “phil freeman”, who appears to be against more free man (less restriction)? is “phil” a clever shortening of philistine, too?

          • Ed
            August 20, 2013 at 2:46 am

            Oz and Bevin, Phil may be logged in to WND at the same time he’s logged in here and that’s causing his confusion. Maybe he’ll look over the rest of the threads and come to a different conclusion.

            This is particularly telling:
            “These guys here want police, think police are necessary to enforce the “correct” rule of law, ”

            “These guys here” wouldn’t piss on a cop if they saw one on fire, let alone ‘think police are” anything other than sociopathic goons.

            It’s amazing how wrong a guy can be, ain’t it?

          • dom
            August 20, 2013 at 2:50 am

            I think the copyright downstairs sums up the epautos stance on pigs.

        • Ed
          August 20, 2013 at 1:43 am

          Phil, how does one “leach around someone”? It’s tedious trying to communicate with someone who can’t even express himself in the only languge he knows.

          I wasn’t criticising your grammar, I was ridiculing your inability to write coherently. Whatever it is you’re trying to say, it can’t be very important or you would learn to write in order to say it in an online discussion.

          So long, Phil. Don’t bother to write until you learn how to do it.

          • August 20, 2013 at 2:23 am

            Dear Ed,

            I was forced to examine the nature of clear writing when assigned to do a presentation on it.

            Guess what I discovered?

            Clear writing is directly correlated to clear thinking.

            Imagine that!

            Unclear writing leads to unclear thinking, and unclear thinking leads to unclear writing. A vicious cycle if there ever was one.

            That is why the NAP is so easy to understand, and why justifications for democratic dictatorship sound like sleazy evasions.

          • Phil Freeman
            August 20, 2013 at 2:25 am

            Ozymandias, I am for pure freedom, not less restrictions on freedom. I am for anarchy, no government, not the merry-go-round of government these guys profess to want. These guys here want good guys to run things, guys who can’t be made to lose their moral compass in the face of payola and treats from large corporations. These guys here want police, think police are necessary to enforce the “correct” rule of law, even though history states eventually the police, the government, will throw off its chains and become an oligarchical totalitarian regime, controlling money, work, movement and food.
            These guys here think they have finally found the right answers. I think Eric does a phenomenal job on his car reviews and car commentary, and that is the subjects his books published are on. I just think there is so much more to this libertarian angle, than live and let live.

          • August 20, 2013 at 2:34 am

            Dear Phil,

            Which website are you talking about now?

            It can’t be EPA.

            You must be thinking about Free Republic or World Net Daily.

          • ozymandias
            August 20, 2013 at 2:34 am

            sounds good, phil. but your take doesn’t sound like most of what passes through here.

          • Ed
            August 20, 2013 at 2:38 am

            Dear Bevin,
            I think you’re right. I also bear in mind that, sometimes, unclear writing and poor command of language may be an indicator of disturbed thinking.

            This is important to me because my writing has sometimes been described as being the work of a profoundly disturbed mind. ;-)

          • Phil Freeman
            August 20, 2013 at 2:49 am

            No. I’m talking about this one. Ask anyone on here how they would like to see the world run? Ask them about law enforcement? Ask them what they think will happen to all those who believe in socialism if the revolution were to succeed? Ask them about how property rights should be conferred? Ask them what they are doing to push the idea of revolution? Ask them how themthey define revolution? Ask them if they understand how revolutions work, and what is typically the result of revolutions throughout history, more government, less government, or the absence of government?
            Ask them what is more important on a comment section of a blog, a correctly delivered message conveyed through stream of conscious thinking (not checked as though writing a term paper), or constant little unproductive bits of correction that have nothing to do with liberty whatsoever?
            This site lacks balls, the balls it takes to get the message of liberty addressed. Want balls read Malcolm x’s definition of revolution in A Message to Grassroots.
            That’s what it takes to get to liberty.

          • August 20, 2013 at 11:18 am

            Phil,

            Property rights – like all legitimate rights – are not “conferred.”

            They just are. They inhere in each individual – because he is an individual. This is what was meant by unalienable rights.

            This site “lacks balls”?

            Really?

            Because we reject all forms of authoritarianism?

          • August 20, 2013 at 11:23 am

            You can keep your “law enforcers,” Phil. That would be a conservative position.

            An anarcho-Libertarian, on the other hand, might support (personally, with his own resources – not demanding that others do so or else) peace officers.

            You know, men who act to protect people whose rights have been violated, who have had some violence done them.

            Law enforcers, on the other hand, specialize in doing violence to people who have violated no one’s rights.

          • August 20, 2013 at 3:21 am

            Dear Ed,

            Hey, been there myself.

            Classic case of “It Is Dangerous to Be Right When the Government Is Wrong.”

          • August 20, 2013 at 4:01 am

            Dear Phil,

            You wrote,

            Want balls read Malcolm x’s definition of revolution in A Message to Grassroots.
            That’s what it takes to get to liberty.

            Actually, no, that’s not “what it takes to get liberty.”

            That only gets you “the typical result of revolutions throughout history — more government.”

            Larken Rose has a pretty good handle of the real solution.

          • BrentP
            August 20, 2013 at 4:38 am

            Phil, I don’t know what website you’re reading, but here at EPAutos I think most of us are for “Enlightened Anarchy” or something close to it.

          • DownshiftFast5to1
            August 20, 2013 at 4:48 am

            Yeah, “Enlightened Anarchy” I like that term, BrentP.

            I like Panarchy too:

            http://www.lewrockwell.com/2009/06/michael-s-rozeff/the-state-must-abandon-its-territorial-claims/

            Perhaps that’s what Phil was afraid of?

          • August 20, 2013 at 5:24 am

            Dear Phil,

            You are definitely barking up the wrong tree.

            This is a market anarchist (predominantly) forum.

            The ideas you oppose are conservative authoritarian ideas. No one here advocates them.

          • August 20, 2013 at 5:30 am

            Well, of course Ed (August 20, 2013 at 2:38 am) has a profoundly disturbed mind. If he hadn’t, he would be out of touch with reality. If you aren’t disturbed in disturbing times, you’re not getting it. As the old saying has it, if you can keep your head while all around you are losing theirs, maybe they know something you don’t.

          • August 20, 2013 at 5:56 am

            Dear PM,

            Indeed!

            Assuming one is in touch with reality, a profoundly disturbing reality mandates a profoundly disturbed response.

            Unless of course, one is a sociopathic member of the political establishment, in which case, one can launch into a verse or two of “God Bless the USA” and pretend everything if hunky dory.

          • Phil Freeman
            August 20, 2013 at 10:40 pm

            I get the difference, between law enforcers and peace officers. This country started off with peace officers I believe, and see how that evolved? Theoretically, since that is all that goes on here right anyways, I would like to live in a society that has flying automobiles and pills that we eat as meals! Both of which are as likely to occur as guys who are strictly uncorruptable and strictly look out for the individuals rights. As for unalienable rights, this is an idea came up by men. The only rights I am entitled to, are the rights I assert, and each individual has asserted different rights. Those on welfare don’t want many rights. Those on farms in the middle of nowhere do want more rights, and will go to ANY lengths to keep it that way, etc, etc. A wise man once said in order to know what you are, define the world you live in.

          • DownshiftFast5to1
            August 21, 2013 at 10:40 pm

            Phil Freeman wrote, “As for unalienable rights, this is an idea came up by men. ”

            No man, that what’s called, a natural right.

            As much as you appear to be enlightened, I think you have much to learn.

    • myles
      August 20, 2013 at 1:25 am

      You obviously haven’t been reading carefully. Please cite some examples.

      While I support this site fully, I don’t think this is the best platform. For one, I’d like to be able to edit my own posts.

      • DownshiftFast5to1
        August 20, 2013 at 4:41 am

        I’m not so sure, myles. Editing posts can screw up a thread and make the conversation difficult or impossible to follow.
        That’s just been my experience with a couple of them.

        • August 20, 2013 at 5:45 am

          Dear 5to1,

          Not sure which site it was, but one I stumbled across had a time limit on the edits. Only a few minutes long as I recall. That would rule out changing the content after someone issued a rebuttal.

        • MoT
          August 21, 2013 at 1:24 am

          You should be able to edit your post so long as it hasn’t been replied to.

          • Ed
            August 21, 2013 at 1:41 am

            MoT, more important to me than being able to edit posts is to be able to respond to a comment directly. Something in the siteware makes the ‘reply’ button drop off after a response is posted to a response.

            That’s the only real bug in the way the discussion is structured, at least to me. The other defuiciencies don’t really bother me. If I fat-finger my spelling, it doesn’t bother me to admit the mistake and offer a correction in another reply, but if there’s no ‘reply’ button, then I can’t even do that and keep my correction in the same part of the thread.

            It’s minor stuff, I know.

          • August 21, 2013 at 1:46 am

            I was wondering about that!

            Some comments have “reply” buttons. Others don’t.

            I assumed there was some unknown to me logic to it.

          • Ed
            August 21, 2013 at 1:54 am

            Yeah, it’s a conversation killer. I reply to you, you reply back, then I don’t have the ‘reply’ button to come back at you, though someone new to the threads can respond to you, but I have to scroll up to the nearest ‘reply’ button and hope my reply follows the comment I’m trying to respond to.

            Maybe it’s just a setting that Dom could revise, I don’t know.

          • dom
            August 21, 2013 at 1:58 am

            Hi Bevin, there setting on how far the comments can nest. I think it’s around three right now. If we go any further they get harder to follow.

            edited: Shit, looks like a comment in the nesting was deleted and now the structure is all jacked up down here!

          • August 21, 2013 at 2:11 am

            Dear dom,

            I see. That makes sense.

      • Ed
        August 20, 2013 at 11:47 am

        Myles, I agree that the siteware isn’t great for discussion threads. Maybe there are some tweaks that can be applied to make it better.

        • dom
          August 21, 2013 at 2:03 am

          I think the vBulletin forum software is far superior to wordpress. WordPress gets ugly once the comments start nesting. Also, following the flow gets difficult too. The one awesome thing about WordPress though it all the comments are displayed on one page and there is very little rich text (styles applied to the text), resulting in a faster loading page.

          • Mithrandir
            August 21, 2013 at 2:34 am

            Dom,

            Is there a way to limit the amount of formatting permitted in vBulletin?

          • dom
            August 21, 2013 at 2:40 am

            Sure is.. You can completely disable html and enable BBcode (Bulletin Board Code) for particular sections, or the whole thing. Then from that you can enable/disable only the formatting you want used. vBulletin is the shit! It is so awesome to work with and EXTREMELY tunable. Without a doubt the best discussion software on the net IMO.

          • Ed
            August 21, 2013 at 3:58 am

            Dom, it sounds like you’ve sho nuff checked it out. Whatever you set up, I’ll give it a try.

  65. G F Leon
    August 19, 2013 at 11:47 pm

    There is a donate link on the top, right hand corner. Just do it if you are interested.

  66. rejecttyranny
    August 20, 2013 at 12:01 am

    Retire. Do not pay taxes, do not earn enough to do so. Works best when you are debt free. Get off and away from the machine. Enjoy the rest of your life as well as you can. I walked away (sold) a thriving business, paid all my debts including properties and have been enjoying life on my terms for the last 5 years. I know it is radical but I just decided to take care of me and my family and will no longer contribute to this corrupt system we call “government”. There is alot more I could share about how I have rejected this system but the first step is to really WALK AWAY. I am 52.

    • Phil Freeman
      August 20, 2013 at 2:54 am

      I could not agree with you more. I am 46. Why anyone would contribute money to their oppressors is BEYOND me.

  67. dom
    August 20, 2013 at 12:18 am

    Just wanted to give an FYI out to everyone following this post. Since we canned Goo-guhl and their ads/webmaster tools/analytics tracking code on the site our number of visits has increased. Very weird..

    • Ed
      August 20, 2013 at 12:45 am

      Dom, maybe that endless Google script I was describing was stopping visitors from being connected. I know that just recently, like the past few weeks, I’ve been able to load the article pages and even post a few of my dimwitted and annoying posts.

      Google bites the dust. Ding Dong the witch is day-ud. ahaha… The Lord is good. ;-)

      • dom
        August 20, 2013 at 12:53 am

        It had to have been! Only reinforces my feeling of paranoia, but wait.. It’s not paranoia if it’s true, right? Times are so crazy these days. I’m mean look at the title of this article on Drudge: An unusual love story: Boy [formerly girl] meets girl [formerly boy]…

        • Ed
          August 20, 2013 at 1:00 am

          “It’s not paranoia if it’s true, right?”

          Welll…….. just ’cause I’m paranoid doesn’t mean that they ain’t out to get my ass….and just ’cause they ain’t out to get you don’t mean they won’t.

  68. myles
    August 20, 2013 at 1:21 am

    Eric, my bank won’t let me send a check w/out a phone number. What is your phone number?

  69. August 20, 2013 at 1:28 am

    “First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you. ”
    — Nicholas Klein, 1918 US trade union address

    Far from being an indicator of failure, the apparently deliberate sabotage is an indicator of success.

    Hardline libertarianism, including market anarchism, has been upgraded by its ideological enemies, to Stage Three, “And then they attack you and want to burn you.”

    Welcome to Stage Three.

    The Revolution is proceeding according to schedule.

    • DownshiftFast5to1
      August 20, 2013 at 4:58 am

      “And then they attack you and want to burn you.”

      I’ve been getting a lot of that lately, Good to know it’s a positive thing.
      Still, it creeps me out a bit when I encounter people who express that desire.

      “Welcome to Stage Three.

      The Revolution is proceeding according to schedule.”

      That was funny, reassuring and serious, all at once.
      Thanks for that, Bevin.

      • August 20, 2013 at 5:37 am

        Dear 5to1,

        Sure thang.

        I was only half-joking, as you know.

        I’m old enough to remember when the mention of “libertarianism” would provoke a “What’s that?” response.

        Then, when I tried to explain what it was, I was greeted with derisive laughter.

        Now both GOP hack Chris Christie and liberal hack Salon.com are wringing their hands issuing dire warnings against the dangers of “libertarianism.”

        I kid you not, the fact that enemies of liberty, right and left, have their panties in a bunch, is a definite sign that we have seized the moral high ground and have them on the moral defensive.

        • jason
          August 20, 2013 at 6:01 am

          I think we underestimate the statist ideology. THEY feel that they have the moral high ground. The seek unity in thought and deed and see any deviation as a moral defect. Moral defects are dangerous and must be eliminated and weeded out. They will not sit by and let us, the misfits of “society” destroy the work they have put so much effort into. Also, the next stage for this “revolution” is for it to become real. These little groups where we sit, talk and tell stories about liberty, talk about theory, these groups need to become real. We need to start hanging out, start backing each other up. We cannot do this alone. Each of us needs each other to back us up when we are arrested, when we go to prison, when we are murdered by police thugs. To remember our deeds and to remember the fight. Without supportive, independent groups opposed to the state, we have NOTHING. Nothing but talk.

          • Garysco
            August 20, 2013 at 9:38 am

            I like that word statist. It reminds me to remember the real decisions are made at the CFR type groups that give us free trade agreements, Obamacares’ and develop policies that raise or destroy economies. We, their victims, only point to the politician of the day and wonder why it keeps getting worse. Yes we are living through, and mostly too blind to see, the implementation of policies and philosophies that were developed by guys like Bertran Russell and Cecil Rhodes to bring in their one world rulership of the us – the unwashed masses.

          • August 20, 2013 at 10:43 am

            Hi Jason,

            I think you’re right – and more to the point, that the time has come.

            It was the same some 230 years ago. The Committees of Correspondence began by talking, sharing views – sharing anger and frustration. Every effort was made to reconcile the situation by talking and by writing.

            Unfortunately, these ultimately proved insufficient.

            As I expect they will in our time.

          • August 20, 2013 at 1:01 pm

            No, the committees of correspondence are a bad example because they were building towards a violent uprising from the get go, much like the communist idea of a vanguard; we can tell because they were started by Sam Adams in New England (others started them in other places), and he was already inciting violence locally by that time, well before the people were “ready”. As much as anything, his methods and eventual aims of social upheaval were why he got sidelined later on. The people who were giving peaceful means a go acted openly while they were doing that, sending petitions to London and taking the sort of initiatives that the first, not yet rebellious continental congress considered, e.g. the narrowly defeated Galloway Plan. And, considering the ulterior and self serving motives of the rebels – who set up what the U.S.A. has now, and were warned at the time so we know they knew – even those who gave up on peaceful methods that time weren’t justified; they were more like Solomon’s son Rehoboam, doubling up on his father’s harshness.

          • DowmshiftFast5to1
            August 20, 2013 at 4:20 pm

            jason, I think you’re severely underestimating the value of, ‘just talking’. Consider this:

            Ending Tyranny Without Violence

            “… if tyranny really rests on mass consent, then the obvious means for its overthrow is simply by mass withdrawal of that consent. [...] all tyranny rests on popular consent [...]

            Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces.” …

            http://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/murray-n-rothbard/overthrowing-the-state/

            The more oppressive the state becomes, the more it affects more people, and the more that happens, the more people talk about it, resulting in less support for empire.

          • jason
            August 21, 2013 at 4:07 am

            I think tyranny is deeper than meets the eye. Once the state steps in and destroys all independent groups, basically declaring them illegal, it creates a vacuum where the only source of meaning, story, narrative IS the state. Therefore people fight ever harder for it because they have no other choice. It is either that or insanity. Removing consent is a very appealing idea but to remove consent, you must give it to someone or something else. For most people family has no meaning without the state, neither does God, there job, there marriage, there sexual orientation, EVERYTHING. I think the intellectual and psychological ground has been laid and for a time power is going to win for a while. You want to oppose the state? Start or join a “gang” buy and sell what you want and for the prices you see fit without licenses and you will see how far you get. You will see how much support you get. Even the people who support you will really work for the state indirectly like your lawyer having given an oath…. We are doing one thing by talking though, and that is creating a new narrative that justifies opposing the state. Don’t think this will be allowed though. It will not. Eric is probably on a longer list. Get used to it. We need to move beyond narrative and to action and as one post I saw said, we must not be afraid to bleed.

    • Jean
      August 20, 2013 at 3:42 pm

      Maybe it’s just me: “And then they attack you and want to burn you.”

      Reminds me of Brer Rabbit and de Tar Baby.
      Brer Rabbit persuaded Brer Bear and Brer Fox to throw him in the briar patch – by begging they NOT throw him in the briar patch.
      “Trickster” mythoology aside: What will they do when they find out that there are a LOT MORE people who WANT to end up in the briar patch – and are at home there?

      First rule of making a deal with the devil: DON’T.

  70. August 20, 2013 at 1:38 am

    Political power, in my opinion, cannot be our ultimate aim. It is one of the means used by men for their all-round advancement. The power to control national life through national representatives is called political power. Representatives will become unnecessary if the national life becomes so perfect as to be self-controlled. It will then be a state of enlightened anarchy in which each person will become his own ruler. He will conduct himself in such a way that his behaviour will not hamper the well-being of his neighbours. In an ideal State there will be no political institution and therefore no political power. That is why Thoreau has said in his classic statement that “that government is the best which governs the least”.

    From The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi
    “Enlightened Anarchy – A Political Ideal” Volume 74 p. 380

  71. August 20, 2013 at 2:57 am

    Eric

    Love everything that you’re doing. Unfortunately, I couldn’t contribute $25/month as I just had my first child, but I definitely could give something. I’ve been coming to the site from LRC.com for as long as I can remember.

    Keep fighting the good fight against the statist quo.

    Josh

    • August 20, 2013 at 11:15 am

      Hi Josh,

      Thanks for the kind words!

      We’re appreciative of any level of support – ideally, if enough people back us up, a couple of bucks per person per month – cup of coffee money – will solve all our problems. And we’ll have done it without Google!

  72. Phil Freeman
    August 20, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    No we want to eliminate all politics, all positions of power, all fascists, all socialists…revolution:
    Malcolm X:
    “I would like to make a few comments concerning the difference between the black revolution and the
    Negro revolution. There’s a difference. Are they both the same? And if they’re not, what is the
    difference? What is the difference between a black revolution and a Negro revolution? First, what is a
    revolution? Sometimes I’m inclined to believe that many of our people are using this word “revolution”
    loosely, without taking careful consideration [of] what this word actually means, and what its historic
    characteristics are. When you study the historic nature of revolutions, the motive of a revolution, the objective of a revolution, and the result of a revolution, and the methods used in a revolution, you may
    change words. You may devise another program. You may change your goal and you may change your
    mind. Look at the American Revolution in 1776. That revolution was for what? For land. Why did they want
    land? Independence. How was it carried out? Bloodshed. Number one, it was based on land, the basis of
    independence. And the only way they could get it was bloodshed. The French Revolution — what was it
    based on? The land-less against the landlord. What was it for? Land. How did they get it? Bloodshed.
    Was no love lost; was no compromise; was no negotiation. I’m telling you, you don’t know what a
    revolution is. ’Cause when you find out what it is, you’ll get back in the alley; you’ll get out of the way. The Russian Revolution — what was it based on? Land. The land-less against the landlord. How did they
    bring it about? Bloodshed. You haven’t got a revolution that doesn’t involve bloodshed. And you’re
    afraid to bleed. I said, you’re afraid to bleed.”

    • Boothe
      August 20, 2013 at 8:52 pm

      Phil – How’d that bloodshed thing work for Malcolm X? He got his bloodshed at the hands of his former Nation of Islam compatriots didn’t he? Advocating violence will usually get you violence. That’s why most of us here are advocates of the NAP. Soooo…which feral…err…federal agency do you work for Phil? You walk like a troll, talk like a troll and smell like a troll. As one of those ‘ten guys that live here’ (at least part time anyway), I suggest you provocateur elsewhere.

      • Ed
        August 20, 2013 at 9:00 pm

        Boothe, good call. When Phil punches back in, he may post another long-winded and wrong-headed answer. Or, not. The guy is completely off the page.

      • Phil Freeman
        August 20, 2013 at 10:19 pm

        Violence is already being done to you boothe. I am not advocating violence against the peaceful. What I am saying is in order to understand revolutions, it is best to understand historically how revolutions work. There is much literature that states as well that the NAP is not about being passive, but rather being aggressive when aggressed upon. I didn’t realize this was the peace rally blog, where marches and comments achieve goals? Try a petition Boothe see how that works to overthrow this government? Try a million man march? Try a sit-in? What happened to Malcolm X does not change his understanding of the action that needed to be taken. He just had an idiotic uneducated congregation he was preaching to, that did not understand that in order to achieve one must fight for it. And in Malcolm X’s case, not be afraid to die for it either.

        • ozymandias
          August 20, 2013 at 11:38 pm

          with all the experience of revolution, don’t know why anyone would want another one. they’re hamster wheels. and just might be the doppelganger that thwarts evolution. unless “the singularity”, techno-metastasis, be evolution (i don’t think so).

          “anyone” is where i put a sizable explanatory bet, tho. its the “everyones” who thrill – even if grimly ☻ – at the prospect of coalescence. our gang. their gang. blood in, blood out. transfusions & exsanguinations for all.

          Del Gue: Jeremiah, maybe you best go down to a town, get outta these mountains.

          Jeremiah Johnson: I’ve been to a town Del.

          • August 20, 2013 at 11:58 pm

            Dear oz,

            Violent revolutions, like “peaceful elections” are indeed hamster wheels that go nowhere.

            Nobody here as far as I know, advocates it. People sometimes make cynical jokes about it, but that’s about it.

            No. Real change can only come about with a non-violent “revolution in consciousness.” With millions of individuals realizing that “Hey, I don’t have to obey and pay money a bunch of total strangers who formed a gang and called it “The Government.”

            When that happens, through expanded deprogramming, “The Government” will simply melt into a puddle, like the Wicked Witch of the West in the Wizard of Oz.

          • Ed
            August 21, 2013 at 12:07 am

            Oz, Phil X is confused. He thinks he’s sharp because he has a point on his head. He thinks he’s slick, because he’s slimy.

            I think the boy will wander off somewhere else and find a home where the revolutionaries roam, where the skies are not cloudy all day, etc., and so on & so forth.

            I hope he finds his heart’s final happiness and all that kind of sentimental tripe.

            Del Gue: Watch yer topknot.

            Johnson: You watch your’n.

          • Phil Freeman
            August 21, 2013 at 12:14 am

            Ok. I agree that is the correct way to do it. We agree 100%. But tell me then, going against social psychology, individual psychology, and at least 2500 years of civilization, how all of a sudden, when propaganda is at its strongest, when the government dominates more facets of life, when education is meant to control people, and more people attend school than ever, please explain to me, how all of a sudden millions of people are going to come to a realization, a realization strong enough that causes the government, all its bureaucracies, all its soldiers, all its policeman, with all their tanks, all their weapons, and all their dispositions bent towards power-plays, to just say, “hey, you know what, these peaceful guys are right?”
            I believe it is a bit more difficult than the wizard of oz, as there are way more systems at play, as well as billions of people dependent upon what the government “gives” them.
            But I do agree with your theory. I love people, all kinds, I would hate to use violence. But 2+2=4 every time.

          • August 21, 2013 at 12:16 am

            Dear Booth, Ed, Oz,

            Yeah. I’m wondering too.

            Smacks of baiting to me. Of gubmint trolls attempting to goad people into writing something that can later be used to prosecute.

            Butler Shaffer, one of the most erudite columnists at LRC, put it this way:

            I have always rejected the use of violence – whether against the state or other individuals – not so much because of what it would do to them, but what it would do to me.

            I oppose political systems because I believe that a free, productive, and peaceful society can arise only through the voluntary acts of cooperative individuals; that efforts to impose order by violent means will always work to the destruction of society, as is now occurring.

            Were I to sanction violence as a solution to the problems our thinking has created, would be to admit that I have been wrong in my assumptions.

            As I have told a few people who work within political systems, “if I thought that violence could be used to accomplish my ends, I’d join you guys!”

          • August 21, 2013 at 12:58 am

            Great video on why all that is necessary is for enough people to simply start thinking differently.

            It’s because the massive apparatus only came into existence because too many people held false beliefs.

            Change the beliefs and the entire apparatus falls apart, immediately, seemingly magically.

            No violence is required. None at all.

          • August 21, 2013 at 12:59 am

            Sorry, forget the url.

          • Jean
            August 21, 2013 at 3:26 am

            Even I don’t sanction revolution – though I fear that’s where we’re headed, and I WOULD support transhumanism on an individual basis – but believe it’s impossible to go where we want.
            Where we want to go, I believe, is ANYWHERE we don’t have decisions made FOR us. Where we can profit from our ideas, or burn out – in PEACE.

            ANYTHING that can enter our brain without our knowledge – from repeated memes in music and TV, to film foolishness, to the memes in commercials and magazines to the “peer reviewed” lies that pass for research…

            To cell phones, where people we trust can infect our mind by being behind our defenses…

            To all too soon a direct port into our brain, beyond even a capacity to become aware, a programmed mind… Life as a biological automaton.

            Look up the last two episodes of Dollhouse. not bad at painting the picture: the mind can only hold so much at a time, and we’re REALLY close about hitting the singularity as is…
            I really have a bad feeling about where we’re heading – and a WORSE feeling about WHY.
            So many people DESERVE it – they’ve chosen it – but WE can’t get out, and we won’t have a choice.

            So – Revolution, kill ‘em all – and IF we are PERFECT in execution, we’ll return to the original form of government – and soon enough, be right back here, completing the revolution by biting us in our own ass. 250 years or so…

            Ok, WE won’t be alive to see it – but our descendants will. We could always try and get it right, but the only way to do that is to change the human…
            Ultimately, by force of one sort or another.

            We lose before we’ve even started.
            Revolution like that not going to work out too well, we’re not there yet. Maybe never.

          • ozymandias
            August 21, 2013 at 11:51 pm

            trolling…is a perfectly acceptable technique. i do it. shadow casting flies & lobbing baits are good, too. for sport, catch/release, and for food.

            to troll, or not to troll, that is not the question, or the difference, here. *where* to troll & lob is all that’s being contended.

            bevin, & it seems an established contingent here, likes the placid waters of lake woebegone. phil (& jean? jason? prolly others) is hot for the flemish cap & 6-sigma perfect storms are outside his model.

            a “revolution” is just a 3d circle. a wheel. the bloodthirstiness, or parliamentary proceduralness / democracyness, or “altiduninal consciousness” of the hamsterpower (even hemihamster power☻) spinning the thing is *maybe* an interesting epiphenomenal segue (taleb *might* say), but not the point.

            what is the point (of congruency)? it’s here, in this reworked aphorism: feed a fish a hook, eat for a day; sow the fisheries with hooks, eat for a lifetime – or until over-fished oblivion – whichever comes first (& which is another spinning wheel…).

            “we need more fish”, say the various shimmering schools amongst themselves, & to each other. representative phil wants more pirhanas, representative bevin wants more angelfish. the water-filled basins & sumps & low places covering most of the planet babble & gurgle & murmur appreciatively, “here, fishy-fishy”, & the fish all say, “water? wtf is that?”.

            ozy sez, “start evolving those fins into feet, & wings – & get outta’ the water”… cuz you ain’t fishing or cutting bait – you’re being fished & cut into bait.

            ♪ ♫ ♪
            What goes up, must come down
            Spinnin’ wheel, got ta go round
            Talkin’ ’bout your troubles it’s a cryin’ sin
            Ride a painted pony,
            Let the spinnin’ wheel spin

            ~ blood, sweat & tear…oh, yes indeed

            In sunshine and shadow, from darkness till noon
            Over mountains that reach from the sky to the moon
            A man with a dream that will never let go
            Keeps searching to find El Dorado

            So ride, boldly ride, to the end of the rainbow
            Ride, boldly ride, till you find El Dorado

            *auh! I always thought it was “ride, pony ride,…”

            well, this one’s got a pony, lol

          • DownshiftFast5to1
            August 22, 2013 at 12:23 am

            ozymandias, angelfish are ferocious. Almost as bad as piranhas.

            As to your trolling and catch and release.

            I always despised catch and release, I though it was a waste on both sides. A disgrace to the the chase.

            Ride a painted pony,… wasn’t that a CSN (or Miller) song too?

            Also, Bevin, so cool, the Tiny Dot.

          • August 22, 2013 at 12:24 am

            Dear oz,

            Lake Woebegone?

            Hardly.

            I want RESULTS.

            ASAP.

            Not wheel-spinning. Not running in place on a hamster wheel.

            So how does one get results, asap?

            Only by doing what will actually change the game, rather than merely the players.

            Neither hot-headed “men of action,” nor play nice and color only inside the lines “get back to the constitution” types will ever get results. They will only change the players, not the game. The only change they will ever effect, is Obama’s bullshit “change we can believe in.”

            The status quo, the political system we have, right now, is nothing more and nothing less than the external manifestation of what We the Sheeple have inside their heads, right now.

            Change what is inside their heads, and the political system that we have, right now, changes. Not “eventually.” Right now!

            That is Larken Rose’s point. It is also Stefan Molyneux’s point. It is also Butler Shaffer’s point. It is also mine.

            Can we change what is inside their heads, right now?

            That is the 64,000 dollar question.

            But the point is, that is where the car keys were lost. That is where one must search to find them. Sure, it is easier to look where the light is better. But one will never find them there.

          • August 22, 2013 at 12:41 am

            Dear 5t01,

            Glad you liked the video. So did I.

            Funny how making one’s point more simply, also makes it more powerfully.

            Commentary on the Internet is psychologically revealing. YouTube in particular.

            Semi-literate louts engage in “flame wars,” in “qui es mas macho” dick measuring contests. They equate rudeness with toughness. They have no idea how ridiculous they appear to anyone with the slightest intellectual discernment or psychological sophistication.

            They come across as “Dumb and Dumber.” As characters in “Idiocracy.”

        • Boothe
          August 21, 2013 at 6:38 pm

          How is violence being done to me Phil? Cite one specific example of how the gun-vernment or any other group or individual has actually perpetrated tangible physical violence against my person. You cannot. Now, the implied threat is there through “tribal knowledge” and popular belief, but it’s all anecdotal in my case. Could it happen to me? Maybe; but I have a strong conviction (faith, if you will) that we are each, in no small part, responsible for our own reality. I am convinced that it is primarily our beliefs that drive our conditions and experiences in life. Strong positives in life such as faith, love, compassion and selflessness bring us good things, good relationships and good experiences. Negatives such as intense anger, bitterness, vengefulness, hatred, violence and hopelessness bring us bad life experience.

          Let’s take the income tax for example: We are all compelled to pay it by law under threat of violence, correct? Prove that to me. Cite the specific section of 26 USC (or any other law), chapter and verse that requires me to pay it (26 CFR has apparently never been published or published by reference, so we can safely ignore it, although you’d be hard put to find it there either). The IRS could not do so in their own offices in front of witnesses back in 1996. They have never answered any of my written inquiries in kind, nor have they ever directly threatened me. My old family friend and attorney even told me that I appear to be correct in my assessment of the situation; they have no such law. So what to do?

          I file and pay anyway, even though I know they have no law requiring it. I acquiesce. Why? Because I am no solipsist and many, if not most of the people around me “believe.” Challenging “the system” will win me derision, contempt and probably unemployed status. Just like driving with no plates or state ID card / permission slip, it is technically legal, but becomes a real hassle put into practice. Indeed, a very time consuming hassle with the potential for incarceration and physical violence if I misstep even once. I have many other things I’d rather be doing than spending all my time “fighting for my rights” in a legal mine field designed to consume me and my ilk. If I were to give up most of my free time and disposable income to “prove” that I can keep the fruits of my labor and can “travel by right”, they’ve won anyway.

          So whether I am “legally” right or wrong, like Peter Eric Hendrickson, they might just make an example out of me for the benefit of the rest of the sheep (even with no law on their side). The best and wisest approach in self-defense is to avoid the fight to begin with. But if you choose to martyr yourself like Malcom X did, that’s your business. I doubt many people will remember you though; “Phil” just doesn’t have much of ring to it. But I suspect that’s not your plan. No, most likely you want to dare the other kids into sticking their collective tongues on the subzero flagpole that is the state while you watch and laugh at their folly. You bring to mind the adage “Beware the man who urges action in which he incurs no risk.” We’re not taking the provocateur’s bait in this pond. Troll elsewhere.

          • Phil Freeman
            August 21, 2013 at 8:17 pm

            Boothe, as a man who has witnessed much throughout my 47 years, I would never try to compel anyone to do anything they do not want to do. Nor do i find those who faced with the evidence of their “prison,” and who do nothing, would I find that funny in the least. I find it more sad than anything. Tangible physical violence does not need be done to you for that violence still to have its effect. You just need to be aware that they CAN do it at anytime they wish, and the point remains the same, whether they beat or kill you, your neighbor or someone in a distant city. The point is that acquiescence is submission, and does not change anything.
            However way you choose to explain it it is all the same, as someone who is ignorant of freedom, and they submit, or someone who knows about liberty, yearns for it and does nothing. The result is exactly the same.
            What I am saying is that I am on your side. I only meant you to reflect on your actions, and see that there is a possibility of achieving new results, especially against those that make rules, laws, and could kill you at any time. Living in a fantasy world where you “believe” the gun-verment is losing strength is merely a coping mechanism your mind uses to justify that things can only get better. I have wishes too, I wish that we could all just get along! Too bad that’s not the case…and frankly Boothe, that’s the only reality you need to understand.

          • Boothe
            August 22, 2013 at 6:18 pm

            Phil, I’ve witnessed quite a bit in my short 54 years as well. I stay out of the ghetto, because as you have observed, the violence there has had its effect on me albeit indirectly. I avoid the police very carefully since my various interactions with them have almost always been to my detriment, although I have been spared any physical violence at their hands thus far. But if you think that we as a nation are ever going to end aggression with aggression and end violence with violence, check your Flavor-Aid. I think you’re drinking the neocon war-monger brand. People never achieve anything other than temporary peace through armed insurrection, revolt or war. What they achieve is destruction, suffering and bloodshed every time. And almost invariably, the government Phoenix that arises from the ashes tends to be worse than its predecessor. Peace is an individual accomplishment as a general rule, achieved by careful preparation, coherent thought, high moral values and treating others as you want to be treated. Warfare and bloodshed are also individual actions; refuse to participate and it stops.
            Now any group of people can achieve peace through superior firepower. Those who would oppress, enslave, control and slaughter you must understand that if they engage you there is no way they can win. But being prepared for war is far different than waging it. I carry a fire extinguisher and first aid kit too, but I don’t seek to burn my jeep or cut myself up. Superior force and preparedness was the original intent of the 2nd Amendment; it was to be a deterrent, the final check and balance in this system of government and a means to quell tyranny if need be. The principle worked well in Switzerland for centuries. But in the 1860’s it didn’t work too well here if you’ll recall: Lots of bloodshed, worse government than before, decades of privation and oppression in the South. We don’t need a repeat lesson, do we?

            You see Phil, people get comfortable, and they become complacent and lazy. Then these lazy and complacent people hire out their own defense, because keeping a gun, ammunition and training in order (i.e. being well regulated) is difficult and cuts into their leisure time. So, stronger hands use taxpayer largesse to control “the defense” and reshape it into oppressors, just as we’ve seen recently and you well know. This is why, when the OWS protestors confronted the riot pigs with “You’re part of us. Why are you doing this?”, the pigs answered with sneers and pepper spray. They aren’t part of them or the rest of us. They enjoy special privileges bought at our expense and many are sadistic thugs that thrive on violence.

            Waging war on them with their weapons, on their system, on their terms and their turf will get you out of the gene pool rapidly. I am confident that’s what they want people to try. It would flush their opponents out in the open where they could be exterminated with ease. Anyone who advocates for bloodshed at this point is at best a fool and probably working for “the man” to incite this stupidity. If you want “mo’ better” oppression, go for the bloodshed option; you’ll get it.

            No Phil, this present conflict will be won with the free exchange of ideas, open discourse, reasoned responses and the education of those around us. Persuasion is better than force. It’s an ancient parable and it’s true. I meet people all the time now that consider themselves conservative, but clearly espouse libertarian (and even anarchistic) values and ideas. It’s not just 40 or so folks that congregate around Eric at this forum. The truth has a ring to it that resonates with many folks and they can’t ignore it. I’m seeing more and more people in my community waking up. It will take time and effort, but we can wake up many more and as they start to say no to the PTB the tide will turn. Or we can have it your way and the blood will flow. I prefer Gandhi’s approach. But you can see how that Warsaw ghetto thing works out for you with the Fourth Reich. We’ll probably get to watch you burn on youtube…

          • Phil Freeman
            August 22, 2013 at 9:49 pm

            I would love to see it work to a T as you describe it Boothe!! Would love it. My only question is how do you know ” people never achieve anything other than temporary peace through insurrection?” Maybe those people who have done war have done it with wrong ends in mind? But what have the people on this earth achieved through not doing anything? Peace? Really? In peace, this country had it all, no violence, and then it “allowed” it’s leaders to get big headed and arrogant and start a war and drag a bunch of people through that Civil War that transformed the values of the individual man, in that he had allowed others to dictate what he valued. And then the government got more ballsy, and implemented its taxes, or its “tiny dot,” and the people allowed that, no questions asked, and they did it “peaceably.” My point was, what is the difference between letting people do something because you’re a scared bitch, and letting em do it cuz you don’t want to hurt people?
            What’s the difference between doing stuff with libertarian knowledge, and doing it because your ignorant and don’t want to ruffle feathers?
            I am a practice meditation every day, and I am we’ll acquainted with Gandhi , but what did Gandhi accomplish if you look at the world environment today?
            You see, I understand the libertarian argument. I understand the “costs” of war. I understand the NAP as stated by Murray Rothbard. What I fail to understand is what doing nothing accomplishes, besides doing nothing.

          • ozymandias
            August 22, 2013 at 10:44 pm

            “Maybe those people who have done war have done it with wrong ends in mind?”

            telos. the future’s not an engineering project. its a side effect. and so far, there’s no “maybe” about it: “those people” have been the wrong means. or, maybe mr. mean genes vs mr. green jeans? lol….

          • August 23, 2013 at 12:14 am

            Dear Phil,

            You keep assuring everyone that “I get it! I really do get it!”

            Then you prove you really DON’T get it by your follow up responses.

            Example: “What I fail to understand is what doing nothing accomplishes, besides doing nothing.”

            Deprogramming billions of sheeple, waking them up to the fact that they have no obligation to obey “authoritay” may be the most difficult and thankless task in the world.

            It hardly counts as “doing nothing.”

            If you don’t get that, then you simply don’t get it at all.

            Also, deprogramming billions of sheeple, waking them up to the fact that they have no obligation to obey “authoritay” is not merely an “intermediate step” in the process of achieving universal rights and liberty.

            It is the whole shooting match. Do that, and the work is already done. The revolution is over.

            That’s what so many fellow libertarians who are impatient to start shooting don’t get.

          • Phil Freeman
            August 23, 2013 at 4:43 am

            No, what I said was I get what you are saying. Now this has changed to you all de programming billions of people and that it is a thankless task? Pretty arrogant I must say. Is Eric Peters Autos one of those sites that is going to help deprogram those billions? Why stop at just a few billion? Just change the whole world through peace and love man? Bevin you just got ridiculous.
            Because in order to deprogram billions of people you not only must take away their televisions, get them being productive rather than dependent, give them a concept of what freedom is (which means they must actually experience it, since learning is done better through experience rather than telling), actually educate them upon how economics works, re-educate them since the “sheeple” have been told what to think not how to think, teach them about health and how to use food as medicine rather than going to a dr, teach them why drinking fluoridated water has rotted their brains, why sugar and high fructose corn syrup has altered their DNA, why they must go from being passive recipients to active participants in their life, how they must learn to be personally responsible, and what they entails, why following authority rather than following their own line of reason has been their downfall all along, how corporatism is tied to governmental intrusion into our lives, and that in order to break free of this fascism, we must also refuse to purchase all of the cheap shit created today which does not help us but is meant to create jobs for the mass of people, what corporatism is and how to look out for it, and why it is meant to dumb down people, why playing video games causing the psychology of the individual to close off the world and results in his desire and action of exploring the world to be less and less, why interaction with his environment is the number one teacher, how everything they know about history and its major players is a lie, and why developing a firm basis for philosophy, reflection and contemplation of the self and the world around him, as well as all of the inner dependent systems it takes to create this work, as well as the interdependence of everything in nature. And that’s just for starters man. So if you think average joe blow living in the ghetto, in poor rural america, in Africa, in Siberia, in china, India, and South America, are going to have time to change their entire lives” to be “deprogrammed” you have underestimated how “easy” this whole liberty thing is.
            So yeah, I do “get it.” I get it all too well. Liberty is hard enough for one man to figure out on his own, with a library, Internet, and time on his hands, but its not so easy to get other people to see the complex process that liberty really is, especially when liberty isn’t in their top 1000 in their priority list. You are about liberty, and I just had to break the beginning of the process down for you, imagine someone who has to start from ground zero?

          • August 23, 2013 at 12:57 pm

            Phil,

            It is an extremely uphill climb – no doubt about it. But (a) there is strong evidence that progress is being made (viz: the Ron Paul movement; the regular – if reluctant – discussion of Libertarian/liberty-minded ideas on mainstream TV; the proliferation – and popularity – of liberty-minded alternative media) and (b) that the system is losing its hold on legitimacy. There is a war of ideas – for people’s minds – being fought and we stand a chance of winning it.

            Is it not worth trying?

            I understand your pessimism. I often share it. But nonetheless, I will do everything in my power to help others shake of their mental shackles, because that is the essential first step before they are able to shed their physical shackles.

          • Phil Freeman
            August 23, 2013 at 2:39 pm

            Of course it’s worth trying!!!!!!!!! Definitely. What I have is not pessimism though it is realism, that is why I explained it in the way I did, painting the picture of the obstacles that must be overcome. But, in order to shake people of their mental shackles, they must first be convinced that they are even wearing shackles, then they must admit they find that burdensome. That is the first step. How do you affect or educate billions of people who can’t even read? Who have no idea about Eric Peters, who Ron Paul is, or how money works? There are only 260 million people in the USA age 16-50. 40% are on government assistance of some kind. The libertarian movement will not affect them. So you have a base of 160 million to work with. Even if liberty and peace made an impact on 1% a year, which is huge, you are still up against 250 million sheep, just in this country alone, per year. How many years would it take, peacefully, to “deprogram” billions?
            Those statistics are the truth? And truth is what Liberty is about. The liberty movement is using a toothpick to chip away a glacier, when its “enemy” can keep building glacier after glacier after glacier to freeze public sentiment to its ice age ways of thinking.

          • August 23, 2013 at 4:00 pm

            Phil,

            It’s just as realistic to observe that we’re making progress – perhaps not as quickly as we’d like, nor to the extent that we’d like. But, progress.

            I am encouraged by this. It shows we’ve got a shot, at least.

            Obviously, we disagree – and I’m not looking to change your mind.

            I’m merely making the argument that the glass is as much half full as it is half empty.

          • Boothe
            August 23, 2013 at 8:37 pm

            @ Phil Freeman – “My only question is how do you “know” people never achieve anything other than temporary peace through insurrection?”

            Well Phil, cite one example of permanent peace in any society, culture, state, city or even encampment. My dad used to say “As long as there’s two men and one woman, there will be war.” I’m inclined to believe that, at least in the sense of a parable. If mankind didn’t constantly fall over the stumbling blocks of pain, hunger, thirst, weather, sex drive, power lust, greed, impatience, etc., I might dispute that. If humans were purely logical, reasoning and unemotional beings I would tend to disagree with that pithy hypothesis. But we are overwhelmingly subject to the pull of the flesh, desire for money and power, and all manner of other temptations; especially when we are of “military age.” To say or worse to believe otherwise is foolish. To state that humans have ever established lasting peace through any means, peaceful, war-like or in between is ludicrous. Many people have gone to war in the past with the noblest of purposes (or so they believed) and the results have invariably been the same: Temporary peace followed by more bloodshed. History bears this out.

            “Maybe those people who have done war have done it with wrong ends in mind? But what have the people on this earth achieved through not doing anything?”

            If you think that somehow we, as Homo sapiens, have evolved beyond our base elements and can now wage war to achieve a “higher purpose” because our hearts are now more pure than our ancestors’, you must be smoking some really good stuff. I don’t think Orwell meant for you to take that “War is Peace” thing literally. As you know Ghandi managed to get 200 million Indians to sit down and do nothing. It is true that a small number were shot for doing nothing, but that act so shamed the British Empire that it changed the whole game…merely by doing nothing. But Ghandi himself didn’t do “nothing.” He educated and inspired his people into arguably the largest master-mind group ever formed long before the Internet. Now I don’t necessarily believe that we can achieve the same level of cooperation with 316 million Amerikans. Nor do I believe that we would have to. It is almost always the work of a tireless minority that affects change, not a super majority or even a simple majority. Reality seems to follow thought. Change the thoughts of those around you and you can shape and bend reality. The other side does it all the time. We can too.

            Sure, we don’t have their resources so it will be more difficult. But hopelessness certainly won’t work. Often when we are at our darkest hour, our legs are failing, we can see all we’ve worked for about to be taken away, if we hang on just a tiny bit longer, make that last push toward the finish line, struggle to answer that hard test question, we arrive, we win, often well ahead of the competition. Then we tackle the next challenge life brings and try again. This is a journey, neither an objective nor a destination. If you are truly living, rather than existing, then there will be a struggle waiting for you. It always comes back to the individual and his or her thoughts and actions. It is the side we choose and the methods we use in this timeless cycle of struggles between good and evil that define who we are.

          • August 24, 2013 at 1:57 pm

            I was born a Yankee (New York) but have lived most of my life in Virginia; the past ten in very rural Virginia. I like to think of myself as a Southerner by choice as opposed to mere birth. Anyhow. I mention that as a preface because there is a line from a country song that always resonated with me: I don’t want nothing from no one, if I can’t get it on my own. You don’t like the way I’m living? Then just leave this long-haired country boy alone.

            It’s become instinctive-reflexive. A credo for me. I don’t understand the Cloveritic (Yankee by viewpoint) lust to tell others how to live their lives, much less attempt to force them to live their lives a certain way….

          • BrentP
            August 24, 2013 at 1:26 am

            Man as a whole hasn’t really changed for thousands of years.

            This is my new technique with statists. Just point out the parallels with the ancient world and then make a quip about how we are better today. On my trial run it worked, they had no response.

            Anyway back on point, because man has not changed he is being led back into his base form of social organization. Everyone but the ruling class and their favored servants and intellectuals will have a short brutish existence.

          • August 24, 2013 at 2:25 am

            With all the dust that’s been raised, it may be worth reiterating my original point.

            One. The man made world is the way it is because of how people think. Change the way people think, and the man made world changes, automatically.

            Two. identifying what must be done is simple. But getting it done is not. I never said it was. Simple is not the same as easy.

            Three. For whatever reason, some people just can’t seem to understand the distinction between One and Two.

          • August 24, 2013 at 2:57 am

            Boothe at August 23, 2013 at 8:37 pm wrote:-

            As you know Ghandi [sic] managed to get 200 million Indians to sit down and do nothing. It is true that a small number were shot for doing nothing, but that act so shamed the British Empire that it changed the whole game…

            People are quite fond of making claims like that, but it simply isn’t true. Gandhi was aiming for that, but the British simply gave him the space to do it without ever relinquishing a firm hold. Whenever he got to being a material problem, they locked him up to cool off. What Gandhi actually achieved worked in with Indian culture’s tendency towards revisionism, that flowed from not being reality based: after independence, those that took power claimed to be his successors and wrote their narrative as though he had actually achieved what he was after, despite the fact that their own gains came from quite other sources – and you have bought into that narrative. But what is there now flows instead from Britain’s own “dyarchy” aim of getting a self governing dominion that would cost less, from U.S. pressure, and from Britain’s own post war economic weakness, that all worked together to accelerate a pull-out faster than was safe. Gandhi achieved nothing at the time but only captured the narrative constructed later.

            Oh, and permanent peace is quite easy, and in fact it is inherent in your formulation of the problem: as it was said of Rome, make a desert and call it peace. That has been done before, though lesser outcomes may well be more fruitful.

          • Phil Freeman
            August 25, 2013 at 4:57 pm

            Bevin, it would be thought-provoking of you if you at least offered a suggestion or two about how you are going to go about “changing the minds of the billions of people?”

          • August 25, 2013 at 6:12 pm

            One at a time, Phil.

            One at a time.

          • Boothe
            August 25, 2013 at 7:09 pm

            @ P. M. Lawrence – I don’t doubt what you say. The legend is always far better than the reality. And I am well aware of what Ghandi’s successors did. Politicians always try to get as much mileage out of taking credit for their predecessors’ work as they can. Napoleon Hill cited Ghandi as an example of what you can do peacefully on a grand scale to affect change. So I stand corrected for over-generalizing.

            Whether the story of what Ghandi accomplished is 100% accurate or not isn’t the point. The point I was trying to make was that Ghandi was changing hearts and minds (despite all his warts) without inciting armed insurrection and bloodletting on a grand scale. He had no choice. The Indian people were unarmed. As opposed to Lincoln, who incited the South Carolinians to fire on a supply ship he sent in defiance of their peaceful requests, declared war without congressional approval and then proceeded to dismantle this Constitutional Republic with massive bloodshed. I suppose one could equate “Reconstruction” to peace in the same way the Romans equated scorched earth to peace. Trouble is, peace never lasts.

            People invariably covet what the neighbors have and seek to take it from them. Especially if “the neighbors” aren’t using it (or are using it for purposes that the aggressor disagrees with). Take Afghanistan for example. Those hillbillies aren’t using all the lithium over there and they aren’t developing it to supply the west, so why not take it? How about that chromite they are digging out and using to fund “Al Qaeda”? Or maybe the copper, iron or gold? Maybe they don’t want to dig up “them thar’ hills” and get pissy when outsiders think they can just come on in and do so. So gigantic financial interests in the west decide they should have control of those mineral deposits (and pipeline routes and opium poppies too). So in go the troops and out goes the peace. We’ve seen it time and time again down through the ages. Some things never change.

            Seems like the British tried to subjugate Afghanistan and ran afoul of the “Graveyard of Empires” oh, along about 1842 or so. Correct? But they took it back in 1878 as I recall. Now that was lasting peace, right? Oops. That didn’t last. But finally, when the Russians brought those Afghani Mujahideen dogs to heel in 1989…err…I mean when the Mujahideen handed the Soviets their ass and sent them packing in 1989, after serious bloodletting. THEN we had a lasting peace, right?

            Oops, wrong again. Now the USSA is trying to do it all over again, with even more bloodletting. It never ends. And just like the First and Second Anglo-Chinese wars, opium seems to be a central ingredient in the mix. And government restrictions and prohibition fuel profiteering for the few now just as they did in the Opium Wars. So when we go for a temporary peace, because historically that’s the best we as the human race seem able to achieve, nonviolent means are to be preferred. That was the key point I was trying to make. I’m bloody sorry I used Ghandi and India as my example.

          • Phil Freeman
            August 25, 2013 at 10:29 pm

            not in “what order” will you change the minds of the billions of people, Eric, but rather, BEVIN, HOW (HOW) (HOW) will you change their minds?

          • August 26, 2013 at 12:09 am

            Dear Phil,

            A drunk is searching for his car keys under a streetlight. A passerby asks the drunk where he last saw his keys. The drunk points toward a dark alley.

            “Then why aren’t you looking over there?” the passerby asks.

            The drunk replies “Because the light is better over here.”

            How people think, determines what they do. What people do, determines what shape the man made world takes on.

            If one wants to change what shape the man made world takes on, one has to change what people do, by changing how people think.

            Bad news I know. But don’t shoot the messenger.

            All I’m saying is that if one wants to find one’s car keys, one has to look where one lost them in the first place. It may be hard to find them there because it is dark. But unfortunately it is the only place one even stands a chance of finding them.

            Re: How specifically does one go about changing how people think?

            That’s a separate question. But Eric’s answer “One at a time” is appropriately Zen masterly.

            One of my answers is, “By not being part of the problem.”

            If you’ve ever used a balance scale, you know that if you take a weight from one side of the scale, and put it on the other, you don’t just increase the weight on the other side of the scale, you simultaneously decrease the weight on the original side of the scale.

          • August 26, 2013 at 12:20 am

            Dear Booth, PM,

            I tend to think that in this context it’s better not to get bogged down in whether historical figures had feet of clay.

            What counts is the principle being illustrated, not whether a specific historical figure lived up to the legend.

            The classic Western “The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance” had a great scene that summed this up.

            Ransom Stoddard: You’re not going to use the story, Mr. Scott?

            Maxwell Scott: No, sir. This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.

          • p Freeman
            August 26, 2013 at 1:05 am

            One at a time does not answer HOW> Nor is it “Zen.”
            Nor does talking about a drunk looking for his keys. He is drunk, therefore acting incoherently anyways. He is looking for his keys, he has no idea where or why he is looking where he is. You on the other hand, are not drunk (I dont think at least) therefore your attempts at skirting around the question, I find a bit frustrating. Obviously I understand the difficulty level involved. I think that was proven in the last five paragraphs I wrote, specifically on the difficulty level involved in changing minds.
            I understand.
            My question to you again is HOW are you so easily going to “help these people find their keys” master?

          • August 26, 2013 at 1:29 am

            Dear Phil,

            I have to laugh at the transparency of your approach.

            But hey, keep trying. That’s what they’re paying you for.

            I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt first of course.

          • Phil Freeman
            August 26, 2013 at 1:58 am

            What? Because I ask you a question like How, that means someone is paying me to what? Steal you and Pinky’s master plan to take over the world and spread liberty? Come on Bevin?

          • Boothe
            August 26, 2013 at 5:48 pm

            Phil Freeeman – As Eric pointed out we change the hearts and minds of those around us one at a time…with persuasion, reason, logic, facts, analogies and parables. You have to figure out what approaches work with the person you are trying to reach and use those. Then you may even discover that person is “stony ground” and there is no point in planting seeds there at all. If so, don’t waste your time, merely dust off your sandals and move on. Planting seeds is all you can do; it’s up the individual recipient to cultivate, water and nurture them. Frequently it’s both a fruitless and thankless job. But often someone I’ve planted seeds with will come back with more questions or considered debate, and then I can contribute to the cultivation.

            If you look at it as a project you can simply finish, you missed my earlier point about life being a journey not a destination. We’re here to work in the fields; planting, then watering and cultivating where it is productive to do so. We are also supposed to learn where not to waste our time. Remember Phil, it’s always easier to dwell on and spread negativity, then give up and quit, than it is to plant seeds, prune your own vineyards and build a flock. If you don’t get that, then pray for knowledge, truth and wisdom, and if your stay the course and be persistant then you will, eventually. Patience and peristance my friend, patience and persistance.

          • Phil Freeman
            August 26, 2013 at 11:22 pm

            I don’t understand why people who are not being talked to answer questions for those people. I appreciate your generalized defining of how you would change minds Boothe, really I do, but in no way is what you said considered to be a thought response at all. It was getting a book report from a third grader: “I liked it cuz it was good.” In no where do you or the third grader get to the meat of the problem. Getting someone to ask questions in no way causes them to change their behavior at all. But I would expect someone who has no idea about behavioral science or social psychology or system analysis to give the answer you did. Thanks Boothe, now if only Bevin could give his answer? I’m dying to be enlightened.

          • August 27, 2013 at 1:00 am

            Dear Boothe,

            You wrote in response to “Phil”:

            Then you may even discover that person is “stony ground” and there is no point in planting seeds there at all. If so, don’t waste your time, merely dust off your sandals and move on.

            That was rather apropos.

            My take? Paid trollers also learn through trial and error. Obvious baiting gets them banned. So they try another tack. Act dumb. “Gee, I just don’t understand. Would you please be so kind as to explain it to me, again, for the umpteenth time, puhleeze?”

            Meanwhile they’re laughing away as they type. “Ha, ha. I really made this guy waste his time on me.”

            Could I be dead wrong? Could I have wronged a potential comrade in arms?

            It’s possible.

            But after repeatedly underscoring that the task of deprogramming mankind is a long and arduous one that must be undertaken by individuals at the grassroots level, umpteen times, and getting only “How, how, how?” that’s a chance I’m willing to take.

          • ozymandias
            August 27, 2013 at 1:01 am

            @ phil freeman

            “I don’t understand why people who are not being talked to answer questions for those people.”

            fee-fi-fo-rum. its a forum. free for all, but donations are accepted, with as few stipulations as possible. or, at least part forum & part choir. but by all means keep peppering the stew. or just stirring the pot. you’re cooking something, just not what you think, or want, or think you want, or are pretending you want, as in if your efforts are all just attempted coaxing of turkeys to the chopping block, as some have said — as if the internet were not already a john boos hard rock maple doozy.

          • Boothe
            August 27, 2013 at 3:10 pm

            Bevin – The stony ground analogy was definitely aimed at our latest clover. Take note that this one rhymes with “Gil” and it tacked on “Freeman” to add a taste of the outdated “Christian Patriot” movement to its repertoire, complete with its initial call for mass suicide at the hands of the thug-scrum.

            These critters never give up do they? Isn’t it interesting how it appeared after we hadn’t seen “Gil” spewing its idiotic banalities for a time. This one appears to be slightly more intelligent, but I suspect “Gil” was playing stupid all along. I doubt it’s a coincidence that “Phil” appeared about the time that goo-gul was unable to quell the flow of unapproved thought on this site.

            Eric, I vote we give “Phil” the clover badge and only reply to its future posts to edify and enlighten others, just as we’ve done with “Gil” and “clover” in the past.

          • August 27, 2013 at 8:42 pm

            Something’s afoot for sure!

            Site was down for several hours today; I’m only just now able to get back in…

          • August 27, 2013 at 11:08 pm

            Dear Boothe,

            Amen to that!

            Gil/Phil. Awfully suspicious I agree.

            Ya gotta wonder, wouldn’t somebody placed in a situation where he was forced to understand his opponent’s clearly winning argument, eventually be won over, against his will, by the better angels of his nature, and “go native?” A la “Dances with Wolves” or “Avatar”? But there I go, thinking rationally. Shame on me.

            Also, Trollers like that may think they have put one over on their targets. But have they really? They are not the only ones reading the dialogue. Many third parties who may be on the fence are reading them too. Our painstaking, bend over backward, patient rebuttals may well tip the scales for them and bring them into our camp. In which case the troller has outsmarted himself, and delivered his opponent an unexpected victory.

            Dear Eric,

            If “They” are in fact attempting to throw monkey wrenches into the works, then that is an encouraging sign indeed!

            As I mentioned before,

            Stage One is when they feel it is safe to totally ignore you. You are so insignificant you are not even worth bothering with. You can’t even provoke a response from them.

            Stage Two is when they ridicule you. “Tin foil hat nut jobs. Ha, ha, ha!” That’s all you rate.

            Stage Three is when they attack you because they can no longer ignore your influence. They know your logic is actually having an impact by turning public opinion.

            Kind of a perverse form of endorsement I know, but we “tin foil hat nutjobs” have to take what we can get!

    • Ed
      August 20, 2013 at 6:28 pm

      That’s interesting, EG. The comments on the article bring up some possible side issues that techies may appreciate. The OP mentions that there’s a possible flaw in the WP ware as well. Still, ‘google-playing-god’ is probably an accurate descriptor.

  73. Boothe
    August 20, 2013 at 9:04 pm

    Eric, Dom – I have never made a monthly financial commitment to any website, no matter how much I liked it…until now. It’s easy to talk about doing something and quite another to provide an open forum for the free exchange of thoughts. I really appreciate what you and Dom do here. As long as you guys stay the course and keep the site up, I’ll make it a point to contribute on a monthly basis as long as I’m able. I set it up through PayPal as an automatic payment to make sure I don’t forget. Come on folks, if you like this site and use it, put your money where your mouth (keyboard) is and pony up a few bucks each month to keep thoughtful dissenting voices alive on the web. You’ll be glad you did. Look at it as a monetary kick to the Goo-gul clover collective’s cojones. ;)

    • August 20, 2013 at 9:30 pm

      Thank you, Boothe!

      Dom and I were talking earlier today and one of the things we are most proud of is the superior level of discourse here. I don’t mean my rants. I mean the comments made by all of you – the readers. No stroke job. The eloquence, the obvious intelligence behind so many of the comments posted here is remarkable. Few web sites – none that I personally know of – have such a group of bright, articulate folks as regulars.

      It’s a big part of what makes this all worthwhile.

      Once again, a big thank you to everyone out there!

  74. MoT
    August 21, 2013 at 1:23 am

    You might also look into Chitika ad network and mix it up with your Amazon or other methods to spin a profitable alternative. Google has toyed with me in the past and I hate, hate, hate, their supposed “webmaster tools” and their utterly useless webmaster blog. All I ever saw there were distraught and upset site owners trying to figure out how they’d just been fucked.

  75. Phil Freeman
    August 21, 2013 at 2:44 am

    Bevin, if you believe things work as simply as they do on that one dot video by Larkin rose, I have a vast plot of land in Greenland to sell you. Sure the conspiracy book by rose is very enlightening, but you mistake millions upon millions of variable, complex systems, needs, wants and desires that are in play to keep the mass of people from acting in unison, which therefore is the sole reason why peaceful demonstrations, petitions, and “hope,” just plain don’t offer a real solution to the many problems government, not just the ussa government pose to the population of the world.

    • August 21, 2013 at 2:58 am

      Dear Phil,

      You clearly aren’t understanding either Larken’s point or my point, since your counterargument totally misses the point.

      “… peaceful demonstrations, petitions, and “hope,” just plain don’t offer a real solution… ”

      That is correct. But who said that was what either Larken or I was proposing???

      So far, you “just don’t get it.”

    • August 21, 2013 at 3:15 am

      Dear Phil,

      I uploaded a short clip from a talk show that zeroes in on this specific point.

      The problem is the belief that people are obligated to obey other people who call themselves “The Government.”

      This belief was programmed into the “Great Silent Majority.” Deprogram them, and “The Government” will vanish overnight. Not “metaphorically.” Literally.

      Violently overthrow an existing government, without deprogramming people as Larken and other market anarchists have talked about, and it will simply be replaced by another government, as bad or worse.

    • August 21, 2013 at 3:32 am

      Dear Phil,

      You wrote,

      “… peaceful demonstrations, petitions, and “hope,” just plain don’t offer a real solution… ”

      Correct. Absolutely no argument about that.

      But do you understand why they won’t? That’s the real crux of the matter.

      Because if you don’t, then you are part of the problem, whether you know it or not.

      • Phil Freeman
        August 21, 2013 at 3:54 am

        I definitely “get it,” I wrote it. I don’t miss Larkens point at all. There is nothing about government that I believe people should follow, and I try my hardest to dismiss their commands as child’s play. But you and me equals two. Do I believe Eric gets it, there’s three. We are not the hard ones to convince. “Deprogramming” people Is a lot more difficult than just telling them what’s up. They have to value freedom man. They have to value it more than driving up to the store at 35 mph. They have to value it more than their football. they have to value it more than their papa johns and a big gulp. they have to value their own bodies, versus the ease of gobbling up a mcdonalds “burger.” They have to understand how to value teaching their own kids versus letting the government do it, letting others tell their kids what to value. They have to value being an individual far more than being secure. They have to value their existence as more than a materialistic grab of goods from one day to the next. And they have to value making their own decisions, versus being led into decisions they believe are their own. They have to value their own lives, and right now, I don’t believe the mass share of humanity would even remotely understand what that means.
        If you can figure out how to get the mass of the world to do that though, problem solved.

        • August 21, 2013 at 9:32 am

          Hi Phil,

          Per what you wrote: It is happening!

          One cannot expect a wholesale change over night – or even over the course of a decade. But it is obvious to me that, on the one hand, interest in anarcho-Libertarian ideals of self-ownership, free exchange and (most of all) live – and let live – are gaining traction; what used to be very “fringe” ideas espoused by a small, all-but-invisible minority are now openly discussed by many people such that even if most still oppose these notions, they nonetheless have to deal with them. Consider the massive eruption of support for Ron Paul, for Alex Jones – for this web site. Many others, too.

          Meanwhile, on the other hand, the people are rapidly coming to distrust – even loathe – Authority. At least as it is currently constituted. I grant that this loathing could be channeled in a way that leads to even more abusive authority. But it also presents us – liberty minded people – with a tremendous opportunity to make the case for liberty.

          That is what I’m trying to do here, in my own small way.

          • Phil Freeman
            August 21, 2013 at 5:24 pm

            No, it is not happening, I believe. The libertarian movement may seem more highlighted because you surround yourself with 30-40 people who believe in liberty, but the movement has to add more people than its opposition adds. More people have to be willing to not send their kids to gov schools than are willing to send them, and that is not happening. Due to the “value” of money, and how inflation has taken over everywhere, people will do anything, I mean anything, in order to make sure their families are fed. I’m with you man, but don’t de dive yourself or your readers into thinking change is right around the corner. It’s far from it. At this rate….won’t happen.

        • August 21, 2013 at 9:47 am

          Dear Phil,

          You persist in erecting straw men, then batting them aside.

          I for one, never said anything about whether the effort would be EASY.

          All I did, was IDENTIFY the problem, and the solution.

          Easy? Hard? That’s a separate issue.

          • Tor Minotaur
            August 24, 2013 at 2:12 am

            These are the two flaws I see in Phil Freeman’s reasoning:

            1) “they have to value their own bodies, versus the ease of gobbling up a mcdonalds burger.”
            – that is simply not true. let’s agree there are SWPs subsisting on nothing but machine-processed food. They are weak, debiliatated, and their life span is only 50 years, let’s say. So what?

            Phil is telegraphing his preferred tyrant class. The Sufists. The ones who scowl, admonish, and nudge the great “unhealthy” masses. The true masters he wants placed above all others, the enlightened and purified ones. This is a crushing tyranny that afflicts billions of people worldwide.

            Deprogramming must include thwarting anyone who would perversely take what is preferable and unjustly make it mandatory.

            2) There are only a few Libertarians, and they are falling further behind in the race for the hearts and minds of the world.

            That doesn’t matter. All that we need to do, is innoculate the rubes to all the tricks the statists use against them, nothing more.

            The media, politicians, celebrities, the powers that be – will never admit they are losing a battle. Don’t expect that to change.
            If you look closely, you can see we have been enormously successful in taking the winds out of their sails.

            Some day soon, some branch of TPTB will claim that they greatly respect and admire the Libertarians, and are thankful for their contribution. They will claim this has always been so. We will have won, in that small cohort of TPTB. We’ll be lulled into thinking there was never anything that was even being fought over.

            Then the ball will be in our court, to outproduce, outperform, and outenjoy ourselves as we either succeed or fail in a living proof of concept demonstration: that those with the most freedom, are also the most productive, most fulfilled, and most inspirational.

          • Phil Freeman
            August 25, 2013 at 11:33 pm

            Hello Tor, thank you for engaging me in the debate. Really? There are two flaws with my way of thinking? And one of them is that it is ok for people to eat shit that has been processed with no general health value? I wonder how that shit food came about? It must have been through some sort of free market mechanism huh? THE “PEOPLE” must have been screaming for food that has no nutrients in it, that they can eat while they are driving, and that makes them fat, ruins their colon, destroys their DNA, and makes them sluggish in all their actions as well as thoughts? It must not have come about through Big Pharma, diet manipulation, Big Agri, or the fact that people do not hold themselves personally responsible, so much to the fact that they can not even investigate the nutrient content of their food. It must be because eating that food is their CHOICE, huh?
            So what Tor and all you want is for the government to go away, leave you all to do what you want peaceably, yet leave in its wake all that has been created by fascism, the welfare state, and corporatism? Ok.
            I think Tor and maybe many of you others underestimate what factors go into choice? Billions of people eat shit, not because it is their choice, but because they have no alternative, because all of the land has been bulldozed, made infertile, so that there can be room for fast food cattle and chickens and soy and wheat to grow.
            Nutrients is what food is all about, not chemically enhanced food that tastes like it does something. When you respond in the manner you did Tor, I am positive you have no idea about the dangers of gmo food, chickens that are served to you at fast food restaurants that sit and eat their own shit all day, what the dangers are of fluoride, how bad table salt is for your health even in the minutest levels, what corn syrup does to your cell structure, the dangers of cows milk, what the difference is between gluten now and that of gluten 50 years ago, and how a tomato or other vegetable grown in soil with no nutrients, even though it looks like any other tomato, provides zero health benefits.
            It must be all these people’s choice to eat this? Or is there even a real choice if it is uniformed?
            No one is making anything mandatory. What I am saying is to evaluate how you are supposed to “deprogram” people when they still act in unthought out, unreflective manners about something so life-dependent as food? That was the question.
            If they do not reflect on their food choices, well then how is it that they can understand value, the cornerstone of liberty, TOR.
            And just telling the “rubes” that the state lies to them, in what ways, and how they do it, what does that accomplish? How does that “deprogram” or “change” what they are, which is a consuming machine? How does that change how they drive as clovers? How does that change how they behave when a “police officer” pulls them over? How does that change them from sending their kids to government brainwashing camps? How does that teach them how to respond to their environment? If they have been taught their whole lives to be DEPENDENT, THEN HOW DOES TELLING THEM THE GOVERNMENT IS BAD, MAKE THEM IN-DEPENDENT?
            The media does not have to depict themselves as winning or losing, people watch, and it is the behavior of watching, rather than thinking than guarantees their victory.
            No wind has been taken out of anyone’s sails. The libertarian party merely just got a bit more exposure, yet that exposure sure has not slowed down more laws, more wars, or more arrests.
            You just read a little bit too much Gary North for your own good. If you live in a cave, you’re going to tend to believe the whole world is devoid of light, but lo and behold once you find that opening, you’ll find that it is only your own little world is dark, but that there is a whole universe that is filled with light. that is what you are up against, trying to blind the sun with your peaceful ways, your unhealthy diet “choices” and your mistaken views of what changing peoples minds really takes.

          • P Freeman
            August 26, 2013 at 12:50 am

            Hello Tor, thank you for engaging me in the debate. Really? There are two flaws with my way of thinking? And one of them is that it is ok for people to eat shit that has been processed with no general health value? I wonder how that shit food came about? It must have been through some sort of free market mechanism huh? THE “PEOPLE” must have been screaming for food that has no nutrients in it, that they can eat while they are driving, and that makes them fat, ruins their colon, destroys their DNA, and makes them sluggish in all their actions as well as thoughts? It must not have come about through Big Pharma, diet manipulation, Big Agri, or the fact that people do not hold themselves personally responsible, so much to the fact that they can not even investigate the nutrient content of their food. It must be because eating that food is their CHOICE, huh?
            So what Tor and all you want is for the government to go away, leave you all to do what you want peaceably, yet leave in its wake all that has been created by fascism, the welfare state, and corporatism? Ok.
            I think Tor and maybe many of you others underestimate what factors go into choice? Billions of people eat shit, not because it is their choice, but because they have no alternative, because all of the land has been bulldozed, made infertile, so that there can be room for fast food cattle and chickens and soy and wheat to grow.
            Nutrients is what food is all about, not chemically enhanced food that tastes like it does something. When you respond in the manner you did Tor, I am positive you have no idea about the dangers of gmo food, chickens that are served to you at fast food restaurants that sit and eat their own shit all day, what the dangers are of fluoride, how bad table salt is for your health even in the minutest levels, what corn syrup does to your cell structure, the dangers of cows milk, what the difference is between gluten now and that of gluten 50 years ago, and how a tomato or other vegetable grown in soil with no nutrients, even though it looks like any other tomato, provides zero health benefits.
            It must be all these people’s choice to eat this? Or is there even a real choice if it is uniformed?
            No one is making anything mandatory. What I am saying is to evaluate how you are supposed to “deprogram” people when they still act in unthought out, unreflective manners about something so life-dependent as food? That was the question.
            If they do not reflect on their food choices, well then how is it that they can understand value, the cornerstone of liberty, TOR.
            And just telling the “rubes” that the state lies to them, in what ways, and how they do it, what does that accomplish? How does that “deprogram” or “change” what they are, which is a consuming machine? How does that change how they drive as clovers? How does that change how they behave when a “police officer” pulls them over? How does that change them from sending their kids to government brainwashing camps? How does that teach them how to respond to their environment? If they have been taught their whole lives to be DEPENDENT, THEN HOW DOES TELLING THEM THE GOVERNMENT IS BAD, MAKE THEM IN-DEPENDENT?
            The media does not have to depict themselves as winning or losing, people watch, and it is the behavior of watching, rather than thinking than guarantees their victory.
            No wind has been taken out of anyone’s sails. The libertarian party merely just got a bit more exposure, yet that exposure sure has not slowed down more laws, more wars, or more arrests.
            You just read a little bit too much Gary North for your own good. If you live in a cave, you’re going to tend to believe the whole world is devoid of light, but lo and behold once you find that opening, you’ll find that it is only your own little world is dark, but that there is a whole universe that is filled with light. that is what you are up against, trying to blind the sun with your peaceful ways, your unhealthy diet “choices” and your mistaken views of what changing peoples minds really takes.

          • P freeman
            August 26, 2013 at 1:14 am

            Really? Censor? Nice

            editor’s note: Not censored bro! We get thousands of replies/posts daily, sometimes it takes me time to sift through it all. -dom

          • Phil Freeman
            August 26, 2013 at 5:00 am

            Sorry man. Thanks.

    • Tor Minotaur
      August 27, 2013 at 2:47 am

      There already exists a country with a significantly “wised up” population. It’s called France. Even if it surrenders militarily, it is of no avail to conquerors, you cannot herd cats.

      Dogs advocate forming attack packs, dogs try to out-bark each other, dogs train to be ferocious fighters. Yet all those dogs are enslaved to humans and cower in servitude to humans. All dogs live to hear their masters commands, not the cats.

      Commentors, Eric, and Larken are just asking people to grow up and accept there is no Santa Clausocracy that knows when you’ve been naughty and nice, and will build you toys. Behind the myth is blood and unspeakable North Pole atrocities.

      Here you find Knowers, here to teach the masses, the Accepters, how to be indifferent to a society of lies, how to be indifferent to costumed authorities, and how to ignore and ridicule the demands and plans of central tyrants. Cold reptilian monsters who in no way have any of their interests in mind, despite their pretenses and assurances.

      • August 27, 2013 at 4:04 am

        Dear Tor,

        Quite so.

        People have been conned. The con is a long con.

        The key to the long con is the delusion that individuals are under some mysterious moral obligation to obey orders from total strangers, merely because they are dressed in costumes and belong to a very large gang that calls itself “The Government.”

        Shatter this delusion, and our work is essentially done.

        As I said, it’s not complicated. Difficult, yes. Very difficult in fact. But not complicated.

        How should we go about shattering this delusion?

        That’s what each of us has to use our individual freedom and individual initiative to figure out. There is no “one size fits all” solution. Top down, one size fits all solutions reflect authoritarian collectivist thinking.

        Stefan Molyneux and Larken Rose are doing it by video logging. Lew Rockwell is doing it by teaching Austrian economics. Eric Peters and many of us here are doing it by brainstorming market anarchism on the fly.

        There is no single “right” way. This is consistent with our bottom up, grassroot, individualist thinking.

        Temper tantrums and demands that someone supply all the answers, now, are part of the old authoritarian paradigm.

        • Garysco
          August 27, 2013 at 5:48 am

          Agreed. But most are looking for a leader rather then think for and educate themselves, and that is where it goes wrong.

          • August 27, 2013 at 6:03 am

            Dear Gary,

            Quite right.

            Conservative and liberal statists often demand to know how libertarians would solve this, that, or the other problem without government.

            Some fledgling libertarians are often flummoxed by this, which is unfortunate, because they are in the right, but may not know how to argue their case yet.

            The fact that statists demand definitive answers to such questions is a confession that they don’t understand how markets, as opposed to bureaucracies, work.

            Libertarians know that the answers must be generated spontaneously by the marketplace. They cannot be passed down from “on high” by the Khmer Rouge and imposed on the masses at gunpoint.

            Needless to say, the statists perceive this as a “cop out.” Funny. They prattle on about “freedom,” but they haven’t the first clue how freedom actually works.

        • Tor Minotaur
          August 27, 2013 at 8:04 am

          It’s an internationally coordinated con.

          The USSAs two major parties are international organizations, no longer American whatsoever, they’re Trojan Horses. Ones where the Trojans slip in and out of various horses without detection.

          Trojans who usurped various institutions mainly during the New Deal, such that Washington D.C. is now filled with Trojan Palaces.

          The 40 million US Dems hold the same beliefs as their sister parties throughout the world.
          They’re in power in the US, India, Philipines & Uruguay

          The 30 million US Repubs do the same.
          They’re in power in Canada, Chile, Taiwan(ROC), Columbia, European Union, Germany, Greece, Mongolia, New Zealand, So. Korea, Spain, & UK.

          There are probably a few hundred Knowers & Deciders at the top of each of these mafias. Everyone else is an Accepter, with someone they answer to, and sometimes a fews others they control within the framework.

          America First means First of the Oligarchs. It means First in Power, not first in citizen living standards, quality of life, freedoms, or opportunities.

          US Dems
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_of_Democrats
          US Repubs
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Democrat_Union
          – – – – –
          It’s OK if you just want to be a Libertarian Accepter, and choose your heroes and follow them, but it’s better if you learn to think critically, and decide matters as a Libertarian Knower.

          The current morass of Front-Middle-Back Human Centipedism has been going for thousands of years. To break free of this, you have to look way back to first principles in existence before the age of groupthink, and being one of the nameless Joneses.

          Aristotle

          Universals are a type or kind of thing:

          For example, parrot is a universal.
          Under the universal parrot there are particular parrots, any of several hundred species, such as Strigopinae, Nestorinae, or Lorinae, or individual birds with names like Polly or Percy.

          Green is also a universal. Under the universal green we find particular green things, such as a parrot on a pirate’s
          shoulder, or an apple the pirate is eating.

          Each particular is a fusion of matter and form. Forms can
          exist independently of particulars. The basic realities are concrete
          particulars such as this parrot or that book – primary
          substances. Neither form nor matter can exist independently of each other. For the form of parrot, to exist, it must be realized in some particular, material parrot. Once all parrots are dead,
          the form of parrots ceases to be also.

          The senses are used to give us knowledge of the forms. Empirical investigation is important. We must know the spoken terms of what we are talking about, and also understand what a parrot is in reality as well. The concept of being able to discuss parrots and to understand parrots includes Telos. Telos means purpose. We must understand that parrots feed and nest in a certain way, that their various actions serve a purpose.

          Libertarians must be teleological thinkers. We must be Knowers who grasp that the world is filled with essences, potentialities, and ends. In this conception of Telos, everything has a natural
          purpose or function and strives towards fulfilling or exhibiting that purpose or function, which is its best and most natural state.

          Empirical observations teach us that both animate and inanimate behavior is purposeful and is directed toward some final end or goal.

          The behavior of individuals, institutions and nations should be conceived of in terms of purposes and goals.

          Everything in the universe can be explained by its purpose or Telos. Everything in the universe has a natural purpose or function which it strives to fulfill or exhibit and which is its final, best and most natural state.

          It is by means of this teleological conception that libertarians can tie physics to ethics and politics. Libertarians agree that the natural function of human beings is to reason. We don’t appeal to the emotion or passions of our fellow citizens. We appeal to their reason. To reason well is to reason in accordance to virtue. We don’t say we have historical claims to lands, or we are the best warriors, or most accomplished race.

          Unlike the theories of Kant and Mill and traditional parties, we don’t view actions as the subject of ethical judgments, we don’t view actions as the subject of ethical judgements.

          Libertarian virtue ethics focus on the character of the agent doing the act. In virtue ethics the emphasis is upon the cultivation of the right character, the development of the best virtues. It is a persons character and not his actions which are morally good or morally bad.

          Libertarian Knowers and Libertarian Accepters stake their lives and prosperity on the contention that man is a rational animal.
          That the human essence is reason. We want to live in a Polis of like minded people interested in living well. A Polis filled with human who want to cooperate and live in harmony and deal with each other through rationality.

          http://www.academia.edu/682522/An_Introduction_to_the_Philosophy_of_Aristotle

          • August 27, 2013 at 8:28 am

            Dear Tor,

            “The 30 million US Repubs do the same. They’re in power in … Taiwan, ROC… ”

            I can testify to that.

            The local MSM on Taiwan even clamors for a “two party system just like America’s,” imagining that once democracy on Taiwan is “mature” everything will be hunky dory.

            Reminds me of the Aesop’s Fable about the Frogs and the Heron.

            http://thechinadesk.blogspot.tw/2006/08/frogs-and-fraud-fable.html

  76. Jeff
    August 21, 2013 at 3:33 am

    I met your site on lrc and wondered if and when the govt. would find a way to shut you down. You talk too much like I think. At the moment, my check is about $20 short of paying my bills. Beg or borrow, I’ll find a way to send you a check. I’m also going to tell like minded people of your situation. Keep up the Good work.
    Peace~Jeff

    • August 21, 2013 at 9:34 am

      Thanks, Jeff!

      The reader support – and simple encouragement – has been very encouraging. We may just pull out of this!

  77. jason
    August 21, 2013 at 4:20 am

    Oh, just remembered a good quote to all you revolutionaries out there that might want you to have some reservations about “revolution”. “The state is revolution”. Who said it? Why did they say it? I do advocate a kind of revolution and “cause” since these are the words our American society is familiar with, but really we need to forget about “revolution”, forget about “progress” and just LIVE. BE PEACEFULL. Peace is not revolutionary, it is not progressive, it is a just good and end. :)

    • Tor Minotaur
      August 27, 2013 at 9:15 am

      The Marxist theory of the state

      Class society has passed through a number of stages: one based on slave labor, one based on serf labor, one based upon labor of a wage worker. Finally, a time comes when the worker wants to suppress the capitalist, who exploits him, or the bureaucrat who humiliates him, and wants to take the reigns of power in his own hands. This is called “communism”.

      From dialectical point of view, communism is the movement of class society, under its various forms, towards liberation of each human being from oppression and exploitation by another human being, this type of exploitation being replaced by exploitation of machines and other, future implements.

      Until that “happy time”, the state suppresses the contradictions that arise between the haves and have-nots. The state, itself, is a product of a revolution that has taken place in the society. Thus, witness the appearance of the United States as a result of the American revolution.

      The state represents the classes that have made the revolution, or, more accurately, led it. The capitalist farmers, the shop-keepers and the petty-bourgeoisie, that have led the American revolution, got transformed into oil magnates, financial capitalists and directors of transnational corporations of today.

      We should stress that a state can not change its fundamental nature unless it is overthrown by another revolution. The basic nature of a state can not be changed by a reform or a coup d’etat (which usually represents an attempt by the ruling classes to consolidate power slipping from its hands). The state is revolution solidified.

  78. ax123man
    August 21, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    “Option 2″ isn’t really much of an option since you don’t know what shut you down and so it will likely happen again.

    “Option 1″ If you go this route, you will want to do what guys like Paul Rosenberg, Gary North and others have done. Offer up a bunch of your best pieces from the past for free and continue to write some for free, linked to lewrockwell and others.

    Personally I think your best option is to try to figure out and solve the Google problem, but it really depends on how you want to roll. Have your checked the Google webmaster tools to see if there is any hint as to the reason?

    Also, I don’t really understand the delisting since, as you said, you still show up in search. Why did the traffic drop so much? I don’t get it. I would think most of your traffic comes from lewrockwell or others (this is something you should be able to uncover from analyzing your web traffic). Even if you decide to become a pay sight, it’s still important to understand where your traffic is coming from.

    Good luck

  79. Tor Minotaur
    August 26, 2013 at 1:33 am

    The Professional. Magnum Force. Dirty Harry. Cop Land. Internal Affairs.
    Training Day. Bad Lieutenant. Touch of Evil. The Departed. Serpico.
    L.A. Confidential. To Live and Die in L.A. Brooklyn’s Finest. Pride and Glory.
    We Own the Night. Cop Land. Street Kings. American Gangster. Dexter.
    Public Enemies. Narc. Streets of Blood. 16 Blocks. Out of Time. The Shield
    The Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call New Orleans. Assault on Precinct 13
    The Godfather. Casablanca. Traffic. Unlawful Entry. The Dukes of Hazzard.

    • August 26, 2013 at 2:05 am

      Dear Tor,

      I really loved “LA Confidential.” A genuine contemporary classic. A retro imitation every bit as good as the “real thing.”

      But I have to believe that the author, James Ellroy, was being ironic with the denouement.

      “lt is my pleasure to present this award to Detective Lieutenant Edmund Exley, two-time Medal of Valor recipient. Next year the LAPD will move into its new facility. With leaders like Edmund Exley, the image of fat cops stealing apples will be left behind, and Los Angeles will finally have the police force it deserves.”

      To wit: Chief Daryl Gates and his bunch of thugs.

      Plus ca change…

      • Tor Minotaur
        August 27, 2013 at 10:04 am

        I hate all things Roman, and convert back to Greek where possible. So Jupiter, I will call by his true name of Zeus.

        Does Zeus have his own life yet, is he ready to leave the people alone, or to actually be of service. If not, who cares what people pray and ask him for? If we’re lucky Zeus will ignore them.

        What is the use of Zeus. Of large logs. Of easy-going eels. Of hungry herons? The government is full of many variations of the three.

        Nature as created, was a harsh mistress, but logical. This Aesopian political overlay reality is non-sensical and un-tenable.

        Should one pray to a vine full of ripe grapes, or should one harvest the grapes from the vine? Which one displays mastery over Telos. Which action is reasonable, and serves a concrete purpose?

        – – – –
        Anthem to Embrace the Herons of the Republic of China. They Protect Us From the Evil Herons of Japan.

        Arise! All people who refuse to be slaves! Use our flesh and blood to build the new Great Wall! The people of China had reached their most precarious moment.
        Everyone is forced to howl their last battle cry. Arise! Arise! Arise! All our hearts united as one. Brave the enemy’s fire. March on! Brave the enemy’s fire. March on! March on! March on! On!

        A Colombian Man Acts With Purpose, Rather Than Playing Zeus
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtyumFzDP10

        If current Heron policy persists, as individuals, we may be impoverished to the same standards as Colombians. Keeping our wealth keeps us safe. Keeping our wealth keeps our humanity. Choosing to restore humanity to this lesser individual can also restore humanity to an individual who chooses to do this action with purpose. To act with the purpose of restoring someone’s humanity and dignity, even in a temporary limited way.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_Ying-jeou

        • August 27, 2013 at 11:15 am

          Dear Tor,

          I don’t necessarily hate all things Roman, but I know what you’re getting at when you talk about restoring credit to the Greeks!

          Many Americans fail to give credit where credit is due because they are only familiar with the Roman knock-offs of Greek culture and not with the Greek originals. That has always bothered me.

          A very similar phenomenon occurs with Japan and China. Much of Japan’s traditional civilization was borrowed from China, during the Tang dynasty, when Japan sent delegations to China asking permission to copy Chinese culture.

          But most Americans are unaware of that, so they unwittingly give Japanese all the credit for Chinese inventions. They refer to them by their Japanese names instead of the original Chinese names.

          There are so many examples, one cannot even begin to make a comprehensive list of them.

          Here are a couple off the top of my head:

          1. Origami
          Origami (折紙) from ori meaning “folding”, and kami meaning “paper”

          2. Zen
          Zen is a school of Mahayana Buddhism that developed in China during the 6th century as Chán. From China, Zen spread south to Vietnam, northeast to Korea and east to Japan.

          The word Zen is derived from the Japanese pronunciation of the Middle Chinese word 禪 (dʑjen) (pinyin: Chán), which in turn is derived from the Sanskrit word dhyāna, which can be translated as “absorption” or “meditative state”.

          These are essentially like what you complained about with Greece and Rome.

          Greek/Roman
          Aphrodite/Venus
          Ares/Mars
          Artemis/Diana
          Athena/Minerva
          Demeter/Ceres
          Hades/Pluto
          Hephaistos/Vulcan
          Hera/Juno
          Hermes/Mercury
          Hestia/Vesta
          Kronos/Saturn
          Persephone/Proserpina
          Poseidon/Neptune
          Zeus/Jupiter

          • August 28, 2013 at 12:46 am

            Ah… while it is true that much of what Japan has came from Chinese sources, there’s more to it than that. The transfers weren’t always direct. Often, the direct source was Korea, e.g. the Japanese sword-making tradition got a huge boost from captive Korean smiths carried off in wars (the Japanese don’t like to admit this). It parallels the way much of the Thai dancing tradition came from capturing the Khmer royal dance troupe; the different skills captured say something about what the two conquerors valued.

          • August 28, 2013 at 1:27 am

            Dear PM,

            Transmission through Korea, which lies geographically between China and Japan, was definitely an important factor.

            No argument there.

            As you correctly note, it is also one that Japanese fascists would prefer to blank out, since it undermines their “Manifest Destiny” style self-portraits.

            This is not to say that the Japanese were uncreative. They were tremendously creative. Often they improved on the Chinese originals. They must be given credit for that.

            I feel a complex mix of admiration and loathing for the Japanese. I admire their perfectionism. I loath their militarism.

  80. Tor Minotaur
    August 28, 2013 at 1:06 am

    I present this necromongering text reassemblage with all due respect and in a spirit of admiration and chaotic illumination.

    1.1.2014
    Ah… while it is true that much of the good content of the world-changing blog – epautos.com came from Australian and Republic of Chinese sources, there’s more to it than that.

    The philosophical transfers weren’t always direct. Often, the direct source was Texas, e.g. the Texas self-aggrandizing tradition got a huge boost from captive Texan smiths enslaved in ancient feudal tax farms. (the Republic of Chinese don’t like to admit this). It parallels the way much of the say anything open mouth tradition came from the negation of British regimentation and Hierarchical Societal order since 1776; the different skills captured by the USSA Tax Farmers says something about what the two conquerors valued.

    The blog proprietors were Virginian. So it is most accurate to say, the surprising vanquishment of the New World Order apparatus is due to the state previously referred to as Virginia, and not the commentors, who it must be said, were of much lesser importance than the Blog Author and his IT Technical Support assistant.

    – it’s hard to build an alternative protocol of reasoning, but it is essential. Eric is hosting this blog. Dom is keeping this blog running. Virginia doesn’t deserve one Got Damn Iota of credit for what’s going on here.

    Likewise, Japan deserves no credit. China deserves no credit. Thailand deserves no credit. Korea deserves no credit. Khmer deserves no credit.

    – Our minds are warped without our knowledge. We are nationalist shills without even meaning to be. Its hard to unwind fallacies, but upon reflection, one sees it is ludicrous to write sentences saying nations did anything whatsoever.

    • Ed
      August 28, 2013 at 1:23 am

      “it is ludicrous to write sentences saying nations did anything whatsoever.”

      Agreed, in spades, Ace high.

      Tor, you are a Got-damn genius. I mean that in the best possible way, so don’t get all mad and hit me with a youtube vid.

      • August 28, 2013 at 1:30 am

        Dear Tor, Ed,

        Agree. We should be more semantically precise.

        As a libertarian individualist, I am of course talking about cultures, not “nation states,” and certainly not “governments!”

        Certain cultures do tend to produce certain cultural artifacts. That is not politically collectivist or blindly nationalistic.

        Fortunately we’re all libertarian individualists here, so I’m sure you feel me on that.

      • August 28, 2013 at 1:35 am

        Dear Tor, Ed,

        We have to remind ourselves that the nation state as we know it is a very recent invention, dating back only to the 18th century or so.

        Therefore many of these discussions about “who invented what” refer to cultures/civilizations rather than modern political entities.

        Of course, we should also name names whenever possible, whenever a specific individual invented something, rather than unfairly bask in collective glory.

        • Ed
          August 28, 2013 at 11:18 am

          “Of course, we should also name names whenever possible, whenever a specific individual invented something”

          I know it. I think it was Delbert Zhang Wu who invented gunpowder. He was a blue-eyed Shan, descended from an ancestor of the SWP persuasion whose memory was sullied by an uprovoked assault he initiated against the peaceful and heroic tax administrator of the Emperor. ;-)

          • Tor Minotaur
            August 28, 2013 at 11:28 am

            Beautiful. It’s like Ayn Rand’s love sonnets lovingly scrawled on butcher block paper sullied with the vital juices of every looter, moocher, and second-hander that papers the entire length of the 1,000 foot high fences that sanctify and defend the Fountain-Headed Prime-Producers of the Sacred-Gulch of the Pure Capitalist Pantheon.
            – – – – –
            McDonald Corporate America Training Manual Tips And Tricks

            Importance of Speed
            The speed of service is the most critical thing in the evaluation. Calculating our timings accurately is crucial to help us deliver what our customers expect from us – a good product at a low cost delivered quickly. It is very important that you are accurate to the second in your timings.

            Timing
            Timings are also the most complicated portion of the your performance evaluation. Make sure you have a very good understanding of how to record your task durations before you conduct labor.

            Practice your timings prior to conduct to ensure you are comfortable enough with the timings so when you are under pressure during the job itself, you have the best chance of executing tasks accurately.

            Timing Points
            There are many timings you need to master for both things you make for those who Drive Away and for those who Remain On Premise.

            Where possible, have pictures of your work processes and finished products. This allows customers to conveniently point and say “I want one of those.” I’d like a combo of the third process you provide combined with the fourth finished good I see in this picture on page 12.”

            “Acceptable” work is to give your customer what he needs in approximately 10 seconds or less.

            When a customer walks in, or your phone rings you should immediately say “Welcome to My Corporation Name. What can I get for you this afternoon?” Your words must be easy to understand and tone of your voice must be upbeat.

            Hand over the requested things, or have the customer walk forward to nearest couch or waiting area, while you assembled the needed goods with all possible haste. Get payment as soon as possible as well.

            As you mature in your job, always discover and implement customer self-service actions where possible. Ideally you want to collect money in your job while having little or no direct contact with human being whatsoever.

    • August 28, 2013 at 1:53 am

      Dear Tor,

      When I get on my high horse about some of these issues, it’s not so much “collective pride.” It’s more like setting the record straight.

      Here’s an excellent example, from someone whom you would expect better of:

      The Greatest Movie Action Scene of All Time
      By Gary North
      November 29, 2000
      http://www.lewrockwell.com/2000/11/gary-north/the-greatest-movie-action-scene-of-all-time/

      Excerpt:

      Across a large, open bazaar, Indiana Jones confronts his latest challenger, who is dressed entirely in black. He holds a sword.

      You know the scene.

      This master of oriental weaponry whirls his sword round and round, in a performance of razor-sharp dexterity. The performance says it clearly: “There is no escape, Western Imperialist.”

      You’re smiling already.

      Why are you smiling? Maybe because you remember your reaction to the scene the first time you saw it. But it’s more than this. That scene conveys a clear, unmistakable, unforgettable message regarding the clash of two civilizations, East and West.

      Jones reaches into his pocket, pulls out a cheap revolver, and plugs him. He crumples, sword and all.

      The audience roars.

      In that scene, we see the confrontation between the West, which has adopted science, technology, price competition, and mass production, and the East, which has adopted mysticism, ancient technology, and personal self-mastery by an elite. The issue is resolved visually in that scene. One shot.

      Only one problem with North’s simplistic thesis. As I pointed out before, gunpowder and (primitive) guns were invented by people in China.

      • BrentP
        August 28, 2013 at 2:14 am

        Only one problem with North’s simplistic thesis. As I pointed out before, gunpowder and (primitive) guns were invented by people in China.

        It’s not a problem at all. Lots of inventions, innovations, discoveries, and so forth happened long long ago. Never reached the masses. They were kept in guilds, priesthoods, political groups, cartels, and so on. They ended up not getting developed or even being lost.

        The difference in the systems North is highlighting is what happens with an invention. Does it stay in the hands of craftsman to be made for the wealthy elite or does it get stamped out by the millions and made affordable to the masses?

        • August 28, 2013 at 4:01 am

          Dear Brent,

          Only problem with what you are saying is that it is not what North said.

          The way you said it is more precise, more credible, and less objectionable.

          The way North said it smears an entire culture as backward, primitive, and unevolved.

          North is usually very good. I read his articles regularly. But often right wing libertarians in the West are not always aware of their own racial and cultural prejudices.

          I overlook these faults because I am keeping my eye on the Big Picture, on global rejection of “authoritay” and prefer not to get sidetracked on historical grievances.

          • Ed
            August 28, 2013 at 11:03 am

            “The way North said it smears an entire culture as backward, primitive, and unevolved.”

            As I see it, North simply dismisses as irrelevant an entire continent and its many cultures. Gary’s sometimes guilty of such shortcuts, as are we all, I suspect.

            As a fellow curmudgeon of Gary North, I overlook some of his failures, and probably fail to recognize even more of them.

      • Tor Minotaur
        August 28, 2013 at 2:36 am

        I’m fairly confident you elevate the debate with each comment. I sometimes illuminate, and sometimes obfuscate or even derail.

        I know the American high horse is a trojan horse. It’s tempts me to posit the China horse as being better, it’s certainly been through 100 times more rodeos timewise, but I don’t really know one way or another.

        I often argue from a position of ignorance and indeterminacy, but soldier on, quickly field dressing my chesspieces with internet gleaned knowledge and advancing them across the forum boards, to see what kind of captures and checkmates they can achieve.

        I love Gary Norse, I mean North of course. A great noble rider of the Roman Catholic Trojan Horse.
        – – – – –
        Today, I will identify as a Mauvillon-ian

        Jakob Mauvillon (8 March 1743 in Leipzig – 11 January 1794 in Braunschweig), son of Eleazar Mauvillon, was an 18th-century figure in German liberalism. He was of French Huguenot descent. A professor of politics at Brunswick, he advocated a radical laissez-faire philosophy, including proposals for the privatization of all the schools and the postal system. Advocating they henceforth be funded privately rather than by taxes.

        He speculated that the security functions of the state might also be voluntarily funded by a sufficient Polis of like-minded Voluntaryists.

        Besides advocating laissez-faire in economic matters he also expressed a radical libertarianism that centered on freedom of the press and expression.

        In a letter to the librarian of the Herzog August Bibliothek in Wolfenbüttel, Ernst Theodor Langer, he said “the real barbarians are those who put obstacles in the way of press freedom, and hinder research in theology, philosophy and politics; in short, those who issue decrees about censorship, edicts about religion and who forbid people to read or to think.”

        Mauvillon was a mentor to the French liberal Benjamin Constant.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakob_Mauvillon

      • August 28, 2013 at 10:07 am

        It’s not the only problem. Here‘s another:-

        On the night of July 5… the British legation at Tozenji was attacked by a band of Mito samurai… British marines fired their rifles while the Mito samurai attempted to hack through the defenders with their long swords. In the residence, attackers poured through the narrow hallways, aiming for Alcock’s quarters. The Englishmen [sic] beat back the attackers in the darkness, shooting their rifles and even employing a whip.

        That last part really is reminiscent of Indiana Jones. However, the key point isn’t brought out very well even in this, the best account I could google: the swordsmen really did overwhelm the perimeter guards who had guns. That is implied by the fact that they could carry the attack further inside, but it is not spelled out (that “attempted” does not reveal that the attempt succeeded).

        Basically, guns are only superior to even knives at distances of over twelve feet or so, what with reaction times and closing distance and, as Indiana Jones found out in a later film, even then only while ammunition holds out (the Tozenji incident was before magazine guns, too), which is why bayonets still matter today. Many TV shows have foolish people holding guns to other people’s heads, which often allows them to turn the tables; when holding a gun on people to control them, it is prudent to treat any uninvited closing within twelve feet as an attack.

        I did find this related item from “The Tragic Tale of Sir Rutherford Alcock’s Dog” rather amusing:-

        Upon reaching Oyu, Toby [the dog] had the misfortune to stand on a piece of ground from which the geyser would periodically erupt. The inevitable happened; the unsuspecting Toby was blasted into the air by the force of the scalding water and steam shooting out from the earth.

  81. DownshiftFast5to1
    August 28, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Billy Jack: “When police men break the law, then there isn’t any law.,,, Just a fight for survival.”

    Mang, I remember when that guy Billy Jack was The Bomb. At least, here it was.

    Also, notice how, police – and man – have a space.

    That was back when it seemed to me that most people thought there was such a thing as an anti-war left. And the ‘rule pf law” was respected. et al, etc, etc etc….

    Oh my, weren’t we chumps back then?

    …And for some, now too.

    • DownshiftFast5to1
      August 28, 2013 at 10:34 am

      Sorry that should be, “‘rule Of law”

      Might as well be, ‘rule pf law” as much as it’s respected.

  82. Tor Minotaur
    August 28, 2013 at 11:20 am

    Ed, I wish all statist-cultures could be ignored. Go cry in your rice Chinaclosetstan. Stick it up your taco Meximerica. Put it between two buns and eat it Obese Amerikaaner. To me, it’s a feature not a bug to ignore them all equally. You ever watch the Apollo missions, and all the ridiculous flags and uniforms. Give me a break already. Who cares what brands the financing tax cattle have on their hindquarters?

    http://archive.org/details/Apollo1116mmOnboardFilm

    Let’s concentrate on the individuals worldwide in the Verein Raumschiffahrt(space society) and the Fritz Lang and Contemporaries inspirational movies and such. World wars and collectivized strong-men-led countries are the rule now. Let us put all that nonsense in the past, and talk about what will be built and individually owned tomorrow. How we’re going to defend what we have. How we’re going to cooperate outside their 9 to 5 rush hour commuter cubicle cattle drives.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verein_f%C3%BCr_Raumschiffahrt

    • Ed
      August 28, 2013 at 11:51 am

      Statist cultures must die, indeed. What we must strive to elevate are the subcultures made up of individuals interacting voluntarily to accomplish the changes they want to achieve.

      The PWT (po’ white trash) splinter group of the SWP subculture has been in decline since the advent of the EBT card, and that decline threatens the stability of SWP as a whole.

      I’m sure you feel me here.

      • Tor Minotaur
        August 28, 2013 at 12:15 pm

        Let their lies become the stones. Trod upon and never thrown. Kids. Rocks.

        “Bawitdaba” – Kindersteines, Kind Rots, Niño Roca, Zi Yán, Kid Rock, Pietra di Bambino, Puer Petram

        Bawitdaba da bang a dang diggy diggy diggy said the boogy said up jump the boogy (Repeat X12)

        My Name is Kiiiiiid – Kid Rock!

        And this is for the questions that don’t have any answers The midnight glancers and the topless dancers The candid freaks, cars packed with speakers
        The G’s with the forties and the chicks with beepers
        The Northern Lights and the Southern Comfort
        And it don’t even matter if the veins are punctured
        All the crackheads, the critics, the cynics And all my heros in the Methodone Clinic All you bastards at the IRS For the crooked cops and the cluttered desks
        For the shots of jack and the caps of meth Half pints of love and the fifths of stress For the hookers all tricking out in Hollywood And for my hoods of the world misunderstood I said it’s all good and it’s all in fun Now get in the pit and try to love someone.

        Love Someone. Kill Someone.
        Love Someone. Come On.

        For the time bombs ticking and the heads that hang
        All the gangs getting money and the heads that bang bang Wild mustangs the porno flicks All my homies in the county in cell block six The grits when there ain’t enough eggs to cook And for DB Cooper and money he took You can look for answers but that ain’t fun Now get in the pit and try to love someone.

        Bawitdaba da bang a dang diggy diggy diggy said the boogy said up jump the boogy (Repeat X6)

        Love, and for the hate, and for the peace, war

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OrNS2zbTZg

  83. Kman
    August 31, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    http://thestringer.com.au/google-and-the-nsa-whos-holding-the-shit-bag-now/#.UiD3P-A1FSV
    Julian Assange dishes his experience with google. Not what you might expect. Google and State dept joined at the hip.
    K-

    • August 31, 2013 at 5:37 pm

      Thanks for the link to Assange’s piece, K-Man. No real surprises there – but always good to have confirmation of what one suspects. The gist – that no one (and no company) gets big without getting into bed with Big Brother is, I think, a truism of our system. It co-opts people (and industries), which is far more clever – and far more insidious – way to end-run any potential resistance before it becomes actual resistance.

    • Garysco
      August 31, 2013 at 7:44 pm

      I am suspicious of Mr Assange, as he mysteriously became a visible mainstream go-to very quickly, and his personal history is clouded.

      That said, the Googs rise to dominance came earlier then the article suggests, in fact CIA-pet Brother was involved from the very beginning with direction, recruitment and funding. It is all part of the dystopian matrix.

  84. ekrampitzjr
    August 31, 2013 at 7:21 pm

    Eric, just sent you a $25 donation via PayPal.

    Had not looked at your site for a few weeks, and look at what happened while I was away!

    To echo others’ responses, I believe you have excellent cause to go after Gaggaa in civil court. Please consider it.

    • August 31, 2013 at 7:58 pm

      Thanks, Ek!

      We’re doing ok – no thanks to Google (but thanks to the readers).

      It may turn out that their blacklisting us was a favor. We’re free of them, now – and can openly discuss things like the government-Google connection without sweating how it will affect the Google ads.

      Because we haven’t got any!

  85. Tor Minotaur
    September 4, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Roady the Possum is Awessum – be his Pal, it’ll Pay to feed him – click the link today and rescue Roady before he becomes internet superhighway roadkill
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkofwx2liHM
    – – – – –

    Doug Casey makes an interesting observation regarding the fortunes of libertarians and anarcho-capitalists.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iXbrVA3-WZ4#t=567

    Receiving bitcoins at no cost to you or your company (so it claims)
    http://blockchain.info/api/api_receive

    CRAM
    Connect to things your audience cares about
    identify and offer a compelling Reward for taking action
    have a clear call to Action
    make it Memorable

  86. Bob
    September 7, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    Eric, what happened to you on FB? I’ve looked and can’t find an article explaining what happened. I also looked all over FB and can’t find you there.
    I had a 6 month layoff from FB and when I cam back you were gone (or so it seems). I like your posts here a lot, but the seeing them on FB was a constant reminder that there were still sane people there.
    I’ll do my best to support you here, but $25 a month will be tough. I’ll do what I can when I can.

    All my best,
    bob

    • September 7, 2013 at 6:11 pm

      Hi Bob,

      We had a falling out with Google – and Facebook (which means, with the same basic entity).

      We threw both in the woods – and, thanks to the support of readers such as yourself – I think we’re gonna be ok without ‘em!

  87. Joe
    September 9, 2013 at 8:49 am

    Just subscribed via a monthly donation. Suggest that you put more donate links throughout the site. Readers won’t be offended. You could put an accompanying link to explain why you’re asking for donations. Liberty minded people don’t like Google. I donated *because* you were delisted by them.

    • September 9, 2013 at 9:22 am

      Thank you, Joe!

      For both the donation – and the advice!

  88. September 15, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    Well, we’ll be sending a small amount on a monthly basis. Unfortunately, you’re not the only one screwed over by “the system”. Amazing how Google ads don’t seem to help those in the Liberty Movement.

    Thanks for keeping the site up for everybody!

    I appreciate your section on bikes. Keep up the good work. I’m a Suzuki man right at the moment (2006 SV1000S and a 2002 VS1400), but hope to get a Victory Vegas 8-Ball when I grow up (I’m a young fella now at 61 years of age).

    • September 15, 2013 at 8:00 pm

      Thanks, Rich!

      Someday, we may have to organize a pig roast at my place… meanwhile, we’ll keep on trucking!

      Riding, too!

  89. Roy B. Scherer
    September 17, 2013 at 12:20 am

    ERIC –
    Your site is claiming that this is a duplicate comment, but it’s not. I wanted to alert you to the fact that PayPal claims that is not registered with them. They CLAIM to have emailed you a notification.
    — Roy

    • September 17, 2013 at 6:13 am

      Hi Roy,

      Thanks for the heads-up; it’s being looked into!

  90. victorkiriakus
    October 2, 2013 at 9:46 am

    Do you recommend any books for car idiots like myself to learn the basics? I bet you could write one and sell a lot.
    How about a service that describes how to buy a car, how to negotiate, and that provides the actual cost to the dealer and the MSRP. I bet you could offer insights that KBB and Edmonds do not.
    For instance, I am considering buying a Spark and would like to know what you think of it. Did you ever think of going on the Alex Jones Show and discuss your problems with Google? He has had problems with them too.
    Maybe it is possible that whenever somebody searches for a car on your site, you could get paid by local dealers for the lead. I don’t have a problem with it. Nothing in this world is free.

    • eric
      October 2, 2013 at 10:18 am

      Hi Victor,

      Good suggestions!

      Back in the day, there was a great book – many will recall it – The VW Manual for the Compleat Idiot (see here: http://www.amazon.com/Keep-Volkswagen-Alive-Step—Step/dp/1566913101/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380723090&sr=8-1&keywords=VW+Manual+for+the+Compleat+Idiot ).

      On the Spark: Are you looking at the conventional or the electric version?

      If electric, my advice will depend on your answers to the following:

      How do you plan to use it? Will it be a daily driver? How far, each way? Do you live in a part of the country that routinely has fairly cold, fairly long winters? Hot summers?

      If it’s the standard (gas engine) version:

      If mileage and value (low price, likely best deal) are your primary considerations, Id recommend checking out the ’14 Mitsubishi Mirage (just reviewed it, see the main page). This car costs about the same as the Spark, but gets considerably better gas mileage – 37 city, 44 highway. Also, the odds are very good you’ll be able to negotiate a final price that’s well below sticker.

      On the other hand, the Spark is significantly quicker/has better performance – and likely will hold its value better, because of Chevy’s better reputation.

      Bottom line, I’d go look at/test drive both – then go for the one that feels right to you.

  91. Guck Foogle
    January 6, 2014 at 1:08 am

    Google is not your friend. The lamer wannabe computer user groupthink hivemind maggot google ballwashers ain’t shit either.

    • eric
      January 6, 2014 at 6:54 am

      Ditto all that, GF!

  92. Ming Bucibei
    January 20, 2014 at 3:56 am

    it is your politics

    google upper mgmt are communist supporters of obamao

    Ming Bucibei

    • eric
      January 20, 2014 at 7:06 am

      Hi Ming,

      Yup – we figure that had a lot to do with it.

      The MSM media enforces a strict intellectual orthodoxy for its reporters and editors. Guys like me stand no chance of even being hired anymore (we used to be able to sneak in sometimes and if we kept a low profile, could maybe keep our jobs for awhile).

      So, we go it alone – as here.

      They can’t abide that, either.

      Hence the treatment we received.

      The next step will be outright suppression – probably via “copyright” rigmarole or (as proposed by Cass Sunstein) a requirement that “opposing views” be given equal time.

      • Bevin
        January 20, 2014 at 8:14 pm

        Dear Eric,

        A relevant quote:

        In sum, through a process of monopoly control and distribution, repetition and image escalation, the [US major] media achieve self-confirmation, that is, they find confirmation for the images they fabricate in the images they have already fabricated. Hyperbolic labeling takes the place of evidence… Through this process, evidence is not only absent, it becomes irrelevant.

        So the U.S. major media (and much of the minor media) are not free and independent, as they claim, they are not the watchdog of democracy but the lapdog of the national security state. They help reverse the roles of victims and victimizers, warmongers and peacekeepers, reactionaries and reformers. The first atrocity, the first war crime committed in any war of aggression by the aggressors is against the truth.

        — Michael Parenti, New Left critic of the Demopublican establishment media

        As market anarchists, we clearly do not come from the same place as Parenti or want the same things. But it’s interesting how people on other parts of the political spectrum also see though the Big Lie.

        Interestingly enough, his website is BLOCKED. I shit you not. By the “Great Firewall of Amerika.”

        I had to find a mirror that the gatekeepers have yet to block. It’s getting more and more flagrant.

        • Darien
          January 20, 2014 at 8:39 pm

          Huh — I can go straight to michaelparenti.org myself.

          Interesting to hear he’s new left. I’ve never really looked into him, but I’ve heard him speak on a few occasions (mostly on war) and had an idea that he was sort of a beltarian type. Clearly not!

          • Bevin
            January 20, 2014 at 8:48 pm

            I haven’t been able to, for months.

            I could before.

            Just for reference.

  93. Mark
    January 26, 2014 at 11:35 pm

    Eric,
    Just use another domain name that mirrors the old one. Have the content come up under multiple domain names. That way people can find the old site, but come to the new site. Redirect them to whatever site is primary.
    Submit your site indexes to Google under whatever site is your current main site. That way if they de-list for some reason, you’re golden.
    Most likely it was some left-wing organization that made a complaint you were hosting some forbidden content. They run Soros-funded basements full of cut-outs doing stuff like this. They know that Google doesn’t have a person you can talk to, and you’ll be SOL.
    Outsmart the leftists.

    • eric
      January 27, 2014 at 7:15 am

      Hi Mark,

      We’re done with Google. We won’t do business with them again. You yourself noted that Google doesn’t have a person you can talk with. So what happens the next time they shut us down? Who does business on that basis? They also will not reveal how they calculate earnings. It is a completely one-side relationship. They are opaque, arrogant. Their “model” is designed to pay web publishers pennies on the dollar, to make it all but impossible for other-than-huge publishers to survive on advertising.

      As one of our regulars here put it: Fuck ‘em and feed ‘em fish heads.

      • Infidel
        March 9, 2014 at 10:06 pm

        I know I’m late to the scene but I like what I see. Any thoughts on a liberty minded web browser, I used Mozilla for years till I got frustrated and am now using chrome… After seeing this shit I want to flush anything related to Goo-guhl….

        Wishing Peace love and happiness to all,

        Matt

        • eric
          March 10, 2014 at 5:11 am

          Thanks, Matt –

          I’m trying to keep my head up, but it’s been a really tough winter – not just web site-wise, either.

  94. Tor Libertarian
    March 10, 2014 at 6:43 am

    Things to cheer you up

    1 This John Campbell guy drew a popular stick man webcomic for 10 years. He said he was depressed. It’s name was sad pictures for children.

    He then decided why not get some money off Kickstarter from his “audience/(freeloaders?)”, you know, maybe that would cheer him up and sustain him.

    He asked for $8,000 and received $51,615 from 1,073 different backers. They prepaid, all he gave, was the promise of a book when it was finished.

    There were delays, and he apologized. Then more delays, still no book was shipped. Each time, the apologies got darker, and his fans(who now made a modest payment), started commenting negatively about him and his work.

    He then talked about all the DMT he was using. Then he decided he was a she. That he rejected capitalism, and the whole idea of people paying others for things they didn’t really need. His roomate was beating him. Then moved out. He couldn’t pay the rent. He decided he was a she.

    Then finally, after an obscenely long delay, he submitted his work to the printers. They expedited the books to him. He started shipping them, but he didn’t feel right about the whole thing. Capitalism is stupid and evil he decided. Someone needs to be a hero, someone needs to make a stand.

    And he quit shipping them. Everytime someone asked about their book, he videoed himself burning one of the books in an alley. Somehow, I take great comfort in this.

    It’s inconceivable to people that transactions, at root, are voluntary. If they’re mandatory, then we aren’t really human. If I hadn’t received my book, I wouldn’t have any standing to complain, at least in the big picture. All these years, maybe 50% of the time, rather than pay, I just consume media without payment, someone’s labor, without payment, or even a second thought really.

    It’s Over
    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/73258510/sad-pictures-for-children/posts/

    Pictures for Sad Children is gone
    http://echochamber.me/viewtopic.php?t=108038&p=3540319

    I really have no clue what John Campbell is thinking, and of course he’s free to do whatever he wants with his creation, but it’s unfortunate; I’ve never seen anything else quite like it anywhere.

    An Evening With John Campbell
    http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?t=64959&p=2348472

    I’VE BEEN PRETENDING TO BE DEPRESSED FOR PROFIT AND I’M SORRY
    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/73258510/sad-pictures-for-children/posts/311890

    It’s a Book I Made It
    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/73258510/sad-pictures-for-children/posts/400300
    – – – – – – –
    Okay that’s weird. Maybe unfollowable even. At least there’s always electoral empowerment for us being we’re Americans.

    2 Play a video game using the democratic process:
    http://www.twitch.tv/twitchplayspokemon

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