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New Car Reviews
Eric Peters’ Books
Clover Cam
Hello,
I’m a 23-year old who’s considering making my first car purchase. I know of your site via LewRockwell.com, where I have read many of your columns (which I enjoy greatly) and see you as an authority on automotive matters.
To save you time, I’ll ask my questions first, then elaborate on the reasons behind them, if you feel like reading that:
- Could you recommend some books or other material summarizing the things to consider when buying a (used) car, including long-term concerns such as re-saleability, maintenance costs, etc
- Could you also recommend some specific cars to consider? I’m looking for an economical car which will cope well with low temperatures (I live in Norway). I don’t need any gadget-filled cars, though having an AC for summer would be nice. The car doesn’t have to have a rock-bottom price tag, as I imagine most of those would likely bring higher maintenance and fuel costs.
- Lastly, could you please recommend any books on basic car maintenance, repairs which one can do on one’s own, best driving practices, etc.?
My reasons are as follows:
Since march, I’ve been borrowing my dad’s tired old Citroen Saxo for my daily commute, which is roughly 60km one way. The daily 120km trip is starting to show its wear and tear on it; first, it had trouble starting after rainy weather (we never figured out the reason), then the front right brake started getting troublesome, and now for the last week, the servo steering doesn’t always start until the car has been running for a minute or two. In short, this car doesn’t seem cut out for long-distance commutes. Furthermore, it feels wrong to be putting so much wear and tear on my dad’s car, for my own benefit. In short, I need to buy a car.
It’s probably glaringly obvious that I’m no petrolhead (as Jeremy Clarkson calls them), so I hope you forgive my ignorance.
Also, please don’t post my name if you decide to publish my question.
–
Cordially,
Vedad
Hi V,
Well, let’s start with the obvious: How much money have you got to spend? This number will help narrow things down considerably.
Since you’re 23 and a student, I’m going to assume you probably aren’t looking for a new car. At least, I hope not. Even if you have the means to afford new, it’s generally a bad move, financially speaking. A slightly used (3-4 years old) car will give you much better value. There’s very little downside – other than not having the “latest” thing.
In general, I’d recommend budgeting about $7,000 or so (U.S.) which over here would get you into something along the lines of a 3-4 year-old Yaris or Corolla (and similar models) with relatively low miles (about 40-50k) and in overall very good cosmetic/mechanical shape. Almost any “name brand” compact economy-type car will probably be just fine for your purposes – which I’m assuming means solid, reliable, economical “A to B” transportation.
Unfortunately, I’m not up on the cost of cars in Norway – you may have to spend more than you’d have to spend over here. Also, of course, you’ve got access to cars (and brands of cars) not even sold here, such as Citroen. I’m by no means an expert on European-model vehicles.
But, the same general rules apply anywhere:
Thoroughly research the make/model of vehicle you’re interested in. Check consumer guides for negative reports/feedback. Look into resale value (over here, this info is published in Automotive News and Consumer Reports, among other sources).
Know what a fair price is for the car you’re interested in – with the equipment/features/options you’re interested in. Check classified ads in your area as well as used car value guides to get a feel for what that price should be.
Take the car for an extended (1 hour, at least) test drive to make sure it suits you – and to look for any obvious problems or signs of potential trouble (such as, for instance, an overheating engine, transmission slipping, unusual noises, brake performance, etc.).
If you’re serious about a particular car, have it checked by an independent mechanic you know to be competent and trustworthy. Do not buy any car the seller will not let you have checked out.
Well, that’s for openers !
Many thanks for your quick reply!
Cars in Norway tend to cost about twice of what they do in most of the rest of Europe (and, I assume, the western world), and importing one means having to pay the difference to the government, making it not worthwhile even trying. Ergo, the prices I mention are probably twice of what you would pay for any given car.
I’m thinking of the 40-60000kr range, which translates roughly to $7-11000, well below your recommendation, considering the price disparity. Perhaps I should save for a while longer… (Note: I’m not a student any longer, though the way I wrote the post might’ve made it come across as such.)
The amount of money I have to spend is quite small (most of my money goes to student loan repayment), though I can save – and possibly take up a loan, though that idea is distasteful to me. Notwithstanding that, I’m thinking that paying more up front and saving on maintenance and fuel down the road is probably a good idea, compared to going strictly with what’s within my current budget.
I just quickly checked the price for Corollas and Yarises (using http://www.finn.no/finn/car/used/browse1 – Finn.no is the biggest classifieds site in Norway, the manufacturer list on that site can give you an idea of what is available here).
For Corollas, cheaper 2006 models start around 80-90000kr, with 2009s around 170-190000kr. As for Yaris, 2006s go for 80-90000kr and 2009s for 100-120000kr. Perhaps I could stretch it and go for a 2006 of either model, but anything newer would leave me broke for years.
As for the rest of your advice, it certainly seems sound, and I’ll do my best to follow it. I’ll also have my dad in on the process (experience), though I know he has a tendency to go for lower upfront costs, whereas I would rather go for lower long-term costs.
Oh, and a quick by-the-way out of curiosity; where does the term clover come from? I know what you mean by it, but I don’t get the reference.
–
Cordially,
Vedad
GRAND JURY
(Power to the People)
http://ericpetersautos.com/2012/11/01/grand-jury-power/
I’m wondering how the two are measured exactly. For example, is front-seat legroom measured with its seat all the way back?
And the back-seat legroom..it’s measured with the front-seats in what position?
And with headroom, the driver seats in some cars can be raised and lowered…etc.
What’s your analysis on this please?
Hi Patrick,
Welcome, first of all – and, a thousand pardons for the recent hassles with posting. We had an epic week with server problems that ended up with us (well, Dom) moving the site to an entirely new server!
Ok, on interior measurements: Technically, each automaker is supposed to follow SAE guidelines using an anatomical dummy that “sits’ in each seat. Measurements are then taken from the dummy’s hip point in relation to its surroundings. But there’s definitely variation in terms of real-world usable space (all else being equal) because – as an example – floorpans are shaped differently, car to car. One car may technically have more front seat legroom – but (as an example) the dead pedal/footrest to the left of the clutch/brake pedal may take up a fair amount of the actually usable space. A car with a differently shaped floorpan, dead pedal (or no dead pedal) may feel roomier.
Seat shape/adjustment range is another variable that can really affect real-world room.
I can tell you from 20-plus years of test driving and writing about new cars that the raw numbers only tell you so much. They are a good starting point, but to really know whether a given car will fit your body comfortably, you have to get your body into the car!
Hi Eric, just getting back to you. Thanks for the reply. So, regarding seat position tho,,,,from what seat position is legroom supposed to be measured? Is there an SAE standard for this?
Hi Patrick,
From the hip point centerline. I’ve been trying to find a graphic to show exactly how it works. So far, no luck.
Eric, “hip point centerline” sounds to me like that’s a position on the dummy’s body?
I’m wondering, what position the seat itself is in? Ie. for front-seat legroom, is the front seat all the way back? In the middle? All the way forward? etc.
Any luck on finding the answer to this lol?
I guess nothing eh. Well, shoot me a line on here if you come across something. CHeers!
Hi Patrick,
Go here: http://standards.sae.org/j2732_200806/
This will take you tot he SAE’s site, where the info is available in PDF form. However, there is a fee!
Haha, I ain’t paying no fee. I’m surprised the answer to this question is so hard to find. Wbu eric? I mean, ‘what position is the front-seat in for the measurement of front-legroom?’. Who woulda thot that would be so difficult to find an answer to lol!?
Crazy!
Hi Patrick,
SAE is one of those outfits that charges for its studies; I don’t have free access to them, either. Sorry I couldn’t be more helpful!
Ya,,,,you must have a guess to the answer to my question eric lol? If so, what would you think answer is?
Even as a paying member this stuff isn’t ‘free’. Just lower cost.
Single Mom in Chicago endures Financial Armageddon
It’s hard to believe: http://jalopnik.com/5963313 but this ordinary woman has been railroaded into a financial holocaust state wealth concentration camp.
It always happens right under the commoners noses, because always the black magicians change their tricks, and execute their black magic in some new unforseen way.
Napolean, Lincoln, Bismarck, Stalin, Mao, Hussein. It’s never obvious until it’s far to late, and all you have to keep the wolves from your door and the mobs from pillaging your family is a few scraps of useless government paper.
Six million Jews die quite unnoticeably when you spread it out over twelve years 1933-1945. A few million Germans die immediately after, and no one can afford to even count or keep score.
It’s only homeless, druggies, domestically violent, paperwork scofflaws, extremists, who have to be rounded up and caged at public expense. In the next few years there will be over 80 million Americans with zero net worth if we go “Forward” the way we are now.
Forward/Avanti was the slogan of Mussolini’s fascists. Then one of Hitler’s slogans, Now it is America’s slogan. McCain or Obama, Romney or Obama, Christie or Clinton, they’re all nickling, diming, dollaring, troy ouncing us into roadside ditches by the millions.
Dig or Die they say. America needs you to pick up a shovel and dig deeper, faster, and harder. You are almost done now, the ditches are our trenches to keep our soldiers safe. Freedom isn’t entirely free anymore, remember what George W Bush said that has now come to define our nation:
“America is no longer a place where people say ‘Do whatever feels good.’ After nineleven, America has a new motto and a new creed – ‘LETS ROLL’
President Barack H, O. Bush is calling to us again to dig deeper the ditches, and to stand ready with our soldiers behind us as we line up and face the trenches. To proudly stand at. The edge of the fiscal cliff while our brave soldiers get in formation behind us. LET’S ROLL FORWARD! The Kuwaiti fireworks record will be broken. We will be witness to the greatest fireworks display of all time. Look up into the sky with shock and awe, thr fireworks are about to begin.
I was at a car dealer last nite, in the financing office, talking a deal on a car. Finance lady said that they didn’t have agreements with banks for variable rate financings, that they only could offer fixed rates! Is that a bunch of b.s. likely, ie. to get me on a higher rate loan (ie. fixed rates are higher than variable)?
I have never heard of variable rate financing for a car loan. That doesn’t mean such deals don’t exist, of course – but it’s news to me.
And why would you want to? Rates right now are at historic lows.
Interesting, well i’m in canada, and i was at another dealer talking a deal on a car (which i didn’t buy) and i was offered a variable rate financing. That’s why last nite, when she said they didn’t offer variable, it made be suspicious (thot she mite be lying). Ya, the historical low mite be an argument to get fixed anyways. And maybe the norms are difference in the US. I know regarding mortgages it is. You guys have 30 year fixed rate mortgages apparently. Here the longest term offered by banks for fixed-rate is 5 years i believe (some mite give 10 years i think,,at a higher rate of course). The norm tho here, is for 20-30 year mortgages, with the rate fixed for 5 years terms inside of it (thus the rate is renewed every 5 years).