Packing Heat in Your Car?

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A few years ago I decided to get a concealed-carry permit so that (among other things) I can keep a loaded handgun with me in my car.

Part of the application process included a state-mandated gun safety course – and a talk by a Va. state trooper about legal and other issues related to firearms and motor vehicles. Some of it may interest you – whether you “carry” or not.

For example:

* If you carry, the cop will know –

In Virginia (my state) and most others that allow concealed carry, if you have a permit, the permit is tied to your driver’s license and vehicle registration. So, if you get pulled for a traffic stop, the cop will probably know you’re carrying (or might be) before he even approaches your vehicle to ask for your license and registration.

* Even so, let the cop know -

The first thing you should do when the cop approaches your vehicle is hand him your license and CHP. Keeping both together in an ID folder (the NRA and other outfits sells them) that you can easily remove from your wallet is idea. This lets the cop know you have a permit. If you are in fact armed, or carrying a weapon in the car, you may wish to inform the officer. You don’t have to (unless he asks) But it’s sometimes worth doing as a courtesy. If you do, be sure you keep both hands on the top of the steering wheel – and ask him how he’d like to proceed. If the gun is on your person and the cop asks to see it, ask him to take it off you. If it is in the glovebox, or other area, tell the cop tell him he’s free to recover it.

* Don’t sweat it -

The trooper who spoke to my class told us that most cops are not worried about citizens with concealed carry permits – even though they may have a loaded pistol on their hip because people who go through gun safety/proficiency courses and who have been vetted by state and federal criminal background checks are by definition non-criminals. At minimum, they’ve never been convicted of a serious crime. They’re the least likely category of people to point a gun at a cop. The cops are much more worried about people who do have criminal backgrounds – and who don’t sweat laws denying criminals  the right to legally carry a firearm (concealed or not).

* Reciprocity -

Many states that allow concealed carry permits also honor permits issued by other states to non-residents who may be traveling in or visiting their states. Here is a link to the Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) which maintains a current list of states that have concealed carry laws and reciprocity agreements with other states: http://www.vcdl.org/static/ccw.html Be certain you know the law when traveling in other jurisdictions. 

If you have a concealed carry permit, it is legal for you to drive from your state through a state that does not allow concealed carry provided your destination is another state that does allow concealed carry. However, you should always put the unloaded gun in the trunk (or as far away from you as physically possible) with any ammunition you may be carrying in a separate part of the car. The safest thing of all – to avoid any possible hassle with gun-unfriendly states/authorities (as in Maryland, Massachussettes and DC, for instance) is to at least partially disassembly your gun and store it in a locked container in the trunk. Carry no ammo. This should make you “bulletproof” in the event you happen to get pulled over in a place like Washington, DC – and they want to try to hassle you about your possession of a firearm.

Other Stuff – 

* Shotgun racks are still legal – 

At least, in Virginia. It may not be smart, but it’s not against the law.

* You can carry without a permit, sort of – 

So long as the gun isn’t concealed (meaning, it is openly visible) you may still legally carry – including in your vehicle – provided you live in what’s known as an “open carry” state (like Virginia). However, legal and prudent are two very different things. If you don’t have a concealed carry permit, carrying a gun with you in your vehicle – “openly” or not – is a great way to get arrested and thrown in jail. Maybe worse. Sure, it will probably get sorted out – later, after you’ve spent time in the clink and had to spend who knows how much on expensive legal help. Not worth it. If you want to carry a firearm with you in your vehicle, get a permit. 

* Know the legal minutia –

Even if you do have a concealed carry permit, there are still many areas where you can end up in a boatload of trouble if you are found to have a weapon on you – even just ammunition and no gun to go with it. Because of  Homeland Security rules, for instance, even those with permits may not carry weapons onto airport property – even if all you’re doing is dropping someone off at the curb and you never step out of your own vehicle. The presence of a single live round of ammo in your car that rolled under the seat and which you forgot all about could result in a felony conviction if your car gets searched while on airport property.  Seriously.

It is very important to know the law; where you can carry – and where you can’t.   

* A CHP might help you escape a ticket – 

Aside from the fact that we live in weird times and you never know when having a gun could be the difference between life and death, I also liked the idea that having a permit might help me get out of a ticket someday. First, many cops are “gun people” – and can connect on a human level with other gun enthusiasts. If you can talk guns with the cop who pulled you over for speeding, he may end up cutting you loose, or at least cutting you some slack. Also, the permit tells the cop you’re a Solid – someone with no criminal record, who went to the trouble to go through the permit process. That also usually weighs in your favor during a traffic stop. It’s not a guarantee, let alone a get out of jail free card – but it is something.    

And that’s always better than nothing

Throw it in the Woods?

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  9 comments for “Packing Heat in Your Car?

  1. November 16, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    Interesting… if an officer “runs” your license, it won’t it also show that you have a CWP? I’m assuming you have to show your DL to get the CWP during the application process and that they note the info in the computer. I’m surprised it’s not tied together…

    Just from a common sense standpoint, I personally think it’s smart to let the cop know you have the CWP (and whether you’re armed) as soon as the conversation begins. It gets things started on the right foot – and even if it doesn’t get you out of the ticket, it will probably lower any tension considerably, and that’s got to be a good thing….

  2. November 16, 2010 at 7:14 pm

    I am a former police officer and an NRA Certified Instructor who teaches the CWP class in Florida. Our license is not tied to your driver’s license or vehicle tag, but you still have to let the officer know.

  3. November 16, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Yeah. A lot depends on your area. I live in rural SW Virginia. Virginia is a gun friendly state to begin with – and rural VA even more so. Everyone here (just about) owns a gun, or hunts. And of course the “Maggot factor” (criminals, dirtbags generally) is lower, so the cops are less on their guard. We also have a local elected sheriff – not a “police department” – so our local LEOs are more in tune with the community (which is small; our county has just one traffic light). When we lived in Northern Va., things were of course different!

  4. Brett
    November 16, 2010 at 12:37 am

    Cops aren’t always so friendly towards concealed weapon holders. When I got mine (Michigan) it was right after the law was passed and there had been a lot of negative press on the issue. The two times I got stopped for traffic offenses the guy called in for back-up and the other cops parked a short distance away to keep an eye on me.

    You mentioned that you should tell the officer if you are carrying, well in Michigan you HAVE to tell him, right away, or you will get ticketed and your permit revoked-never to return.

    Some cops are dicks about it. For the same reason that the country is slowly getting less free, the police are acting more and more like the gestopo. I’ve never had a cop want to talk about guns with me, they frequently act like we are the enemy.

  5. November 15, 2010 at 9:22 pm

    I had an amusing time with a local Pennsylvania cop a few years ago over my licensed carry gun. Having informed him that my firearm was in the car, he wanted to see it and unload it. The car was about to be towed and I needed to remove it from the car in any case. Why he needed to unload it was and remains a mystery.

    I pointed out my little High-Standard derringer to him and he reacted to it like the proverbial cannible with a pocket watch. Finally he asked ME to take it and unload it for him! He just never encountered a top-break firearm before.

    He was a nice kid and quite helpful. On learning that I”m a retired LEO we had a great chat about local crime matters.

    • November 15, 2010 at 9:29 pm

      I had a similar experience with a VA Trooper. My “big” carry gun is a Sig P220 .45; the trooper’s sidearm was a .357 Sig. We bonded over this and talked about our common like of Sigs, the pros and cons, etc.

      I’m still looking for a better holster for this gun. I normally don’t wear belts, so I use an “inside the pants” clip-style holster, which works ok but it’s not ideal. The P220 is still fairly large, even with single stack magazine. In the summer I have taken to carrying a Bersa Thunder .380 (knock-off of the Walther PPK; it’s a nice gun but it’s no Sig) chiefly because it’s easier to holster. If you know of a good CC holster for the Sig P220, I’d love to hear about it!

  6. Kman
    November 15, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    I’ve adopted the policy of informing the officer that ” I have a carry permit and I’m armed.”
    Best ever response from a cop was “ok you leave yours alone and I’ll leave mine alone”.
    K-

    • November 15, 2010 at 6:52 pm

      I am certain I escaped my last ticket by (calmly, in a nice voice) handing my DL and CHP over (I keep them together) and telling the cop, “I’m not armed (I was on my bike) but thought you’d like to know, either way.” We ended up bullshitting about guns for about 10 minutes, then he let me go with a warning!

  7. dom
    November 14, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Thanks for the write-up. I am taking my class this Sunday. A trooper is going to show up and talk to us? Also, I am considering this holster:

    Sig Sauer P220 Carry Holster

    What do you think about this jankz?

    Do I need a cop belt to wear it? -hope not

    Suggestions?

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